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I have lived in Florida for over 30 years. Any body of water, even retention ponds, will contain gators. For the most part, they will leave you alone unless you are small. There are dumb ass people who feed the gators thinking it's cute (I had a neighbor like that) that same gator snatched another neighbors dog as they walked it near the pond. I'm not saying people fed them, but that is a possibility considering they are a novelty to people who have never seen them before.

This 11 foot one was found in the sewer the last couple of days. Very dead and very rotten.
http://www.news-press.com/story/news/2016/06/14/11-foot-alligator-pulled-fort-myers-drain/85854510/

636014576953218524-Gator.jpg

Like I said, all water here will have gators. Even the sewers under the streets.
 
Look, I'm sorry this kid died, but "better safe than sorry" is cliche for a reason. If the sign says No Swimming, rather than looking for a loophole that would allow you to "stick it to The Man" and swim anyway, just find somewhere else for you and your kid to swim, where you would have a more reasonable expectation of safety.

"Better safe than sorry," IS cliche for a reason, isn't it! Used all those words, only to reinforce my point in the end. :D

"No Swimming," doesn't keep people out of water, regardless of whether or not YOU think it ought to. You can hope that it will, but "swimming" means "swimming", not "stay out of the water". Not, "danger". It just means, "Don't swim." Again, specific OR thorough. Warnings have to be one or another. This was neither.

And, because privately-owned property carries with it default culpability, it behooves an establishment to protect themselves and their patrons from a potentially deadly misunderstanding. Better safe than sorry... like all the smarter resorts in the area.

Instead, they were concerned about scaring patrons, so they omitted the very obvious reason for staying out of the water. Bad jujus.

Tort lawyers are already saying that Disney is at fault. They're calling ZOOS an appropriate standard of comparison, if you own a private "habitat" where dangerous animals will be present. Their liability is mitigated by the fact that the animals are local and widespread. That mitigating factor is nullified by the fact that they are purposefully attracting individuals from other regions who can't legally be expected to know. Zoos? Disney doesn't stand a chance if a lawsuit goes to court.

And, no, the kid who died as a result of a drained pool is not the responsibility of the owner. They were not invited, and the owner placed a fence around the pool. These individuals were guests, and there was no fence.

You're newish, so you wouldn't appreciate my familiarity with the law, but you should have some familiarity with law yourself. Especially if you own or plan to own property.

If the family of the boy chooses to sue, they'll walk away with a multi-million dollar judgment (or, more likely, settlement), and Disney will have a new set of signage either way.

The moral of the story? If you own property, state the expectation - or the risk - in no uncertain terms, or block unsafe areas off such that guests must circumvent the the barrier in order to gain access.
 
I mean seriously, who knew a cup of coffee from McDonald's would be hot, right?

Tisk, tisk. The McDonald's in question had been warned repeatedly about the heat of its coffee, after no less than 700 incidents of people suffering burns of various substantiated degree. It wasn't simply "hot". It was scalding. Enough so that the 79-year-old patron required debridement (my worst nightmare) and skin grafts after 8 days in the hospital.

And this is the nuance people fail to understand with tort law. That, beyond a certain point, it's no longer an accident. It's negligence. If this was the first alligator to ever be found on the property, or if there had been reasonable warning, it would be a non-issue. If McDonald's served their coffee at 140 degrees, like everywhere else including your pot at home does, it would be a non-issue. They sold it at no less than 185 degrees, however... hot enough to melt your fucking skin off.

Had they said, "Warning, coffee dangerously hot!" they would have been off the hook. Had Disney said, "Warning, alligators in the water!" (or even something less dramatic but equally "stay out of the water"), they would have been off the hook.

And, with all due respect, perhaps a woman with 187 IQ shouldn't walk around talking about what is insulting to her intelligence? I mean, isn't everything outside of theoretical physics? ;)
 
Dayy--umm @Athena , I'm so grateful that we are "on the same side" on this one... I was just going to pinpoint that it is difficult to feel the coffee temperature with those coffee cups, ergo, the need of a warning.
And, for the rest of the world... It is Disneyworld! The land of princess and dreams and fun... In a resort, a place where you can forget about all problems and for $500 a night, feel safe...
And... Everything is within Material Science :woot:
 
167! I'm not letting 20 extra points ride! The next derp moment I have I'll pay HELL for! Damn woman! :hilarious:

I knew about the 700 prior instances. My question there is why didn't their franchise license get yanked after, say three instances? That would have been the responsible thing to do. Not wasting the time and money that the trial cost. And not resulting in me having to see annoying, DUH! warnings on every damn thing. Warning, your Skippy peanut butter may contain peanuts! :YOW:

Look, I believe that ultimately, this is all on me. I am after all, most certainly going to be the last line of defence between me and imminent danger. :shrug: That's just how I see the world as it pertains to me and my safety/survival. If I were the parent of a two year old, on vacation to an unfamiliar place, sitting on a beach with posted "No Swimming"signs, watching an outdoor movie after dark, the very last place I would let my child is in the water, or even very near the water. I don't know why that sign says " No Swimming" and figure its something in the water. Animal/mineral or vegetable, something in there isn't good for me. I just don't see why we keep demanding more and more warnings rather than demanding some personal responsibility too. Did you need a warning on a can of spray paint to tell you that huffing that shit just might be hazardous to your health? That stuff stinks! I wasn't going to do it in any case. Personal responsibility. No warning needed.
Take all of that into account with your IQ though, and what is common knowledge to you, is, quite frankly, not to someone else. It is very hard when you've made many connections in your brain to view things from the perspective of someone who has not. You're just too brainy too see things need to be dumbed down for some!
 

Oh, shit. "Disney employees are now saying that resort officials ignored their complaints about alligators becoming a nuisance."

Welp, if there was ever any question as to Disney's culpability, there ain't no mo'.
[doublepost=1466215296,1466213206][/doublepost]

I managed to miss this yesterday. Let's talk about the pose of the dude in the background for a second, tho...

I love that guy.
 
Disney is going to cough up the dough whether they accept responsibility or not.
They want this to go away.
 
Every time I've seen a news story on tv about this, I always hear how good Disney is about removing gators from their property and that gators are everywhere cuz it's Florida so Disney isn't responsible for this. I don't really get the defense there because if Disney knew that there were gators in that water or on Disney grounds, that makes it sound worse to me. If they knew then why the hell were there not clear fucking gator warning signs posted? I'm not saying either Disney or the parents are to blame on this one. Yeah, there are thing they both could have done differently but they didnt. The little boy is still dead at the end of the day.
 
Disney is installing fences and new signs.

LAKE BUENA VISTA, Fla. -- Photos shared on social media on Friday show a construction crew installing a fence on the beach at Disney's Grand Floridian Resort where a 2-year-old boy was attacked by an alligator on Tuesday night.

Alligator warning signs will also be put up near all the waterways at Walt Disney World resorts following the death of a 2-year-old boy who was dragged into a lagoon.

It's unclear whether the signs will also be installed on Friday.

http://kdvr.com/2016/06/17/disney-installing-fence-on-beach-where-alligator-attacked-boy/
 
Paul Santamaria was attacked by an aligator at Magic Kingdom in 1986.

"
"I just remember how slow it seemed to be happening, I didn't feel any pain from it," he continued.

Santamaria says he was feeding the ducks at Disney's Fort Wilderness campground lake when an alligator erupted from the water's edge.

"It turned its head sideways and grabbed my leg. From there, it started to thrash me around, pull on me, and try to get me into the water."

He says his sister grabbed his arms while his brother hit the 7-foot female gator. The intense, violent tug of war ended when the alligator opened her mouth and let go.

"I was lucky enough to get away, but it's just a bad situation," he continued.

Santamaria was hospitalized for a week. The gator's tooth was pulled from his thigh where it barely missed his femoral artery.

http://www.fox13news.com/news/u-s-and-world-news/160527741-story
 
Oh, shit. "Disney employees are now saying that resort officials ignored their complaints about alligators becoming a nuisance."

Welp, if there was ever any question as to Disney's culpability, there ain't no mo'.
[doublepost=1466215296,1466213206][/doublepost]

I managed to miss this yesterday. Let's talk about the pose of the dude in the background for a second, tho...

I love that guy.

I grew up with gators. We give each other a wide berth. Knowing we were so close to each other did not stop me from learning to water skii, jet skiing or spending the afternoon around fresh water ponds and lakes. The difference is that most people are wise enough to not encourage a predator, who can swim and run faster than you, to come within arms distance to eat raw chicken.

Gators, for the most part, are not nuisances. We almost hunted them to extinction. There are now over a million tucked in all bodies of water. It would be crazy to post signs at every possible location a gator might be in a state that is always sunny and flooded with tourists all year. They are everywhere. Have you seen the topography of Florida? It's covered in lakes.

What they should have posted was signs about the importance of not disturbing or feeding the wildlife. If there were gators, there were cotton mouths, rattle snakes, water bugs, poisonous spiders, snapping turtles and who knows what else living in that water. Tourists also fuck with native birds like the endangered Sandhill Crane who has a 6 foot wing spam and will kick your ass if you get too close.

I believe the fault lies on guests seeing no harm in feeding them. If Disney was aware, then its on them too. Sadly, it takes one eating someone or something for a sign to put up.

And yeah...that dude is funny as hell. I don't think I'd be all "What up, Fuckers!?" Downwind of the stank coming off that bloated thing.
 
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Disney has wiped out references and depictions of alligators and crocodiles from its storied attractions at the Magic Kingdom in Florida in the weeks after a 2-year-old was killed in an attack at a resort, according to reports.

The Miami Herald reported that cartoon alligators and crocodiles have been removed from shows and parades, and a more than 50-year-old one-liner warning parents to watch their children or “the crocodiles will” is no longer told on the Jungle Cruise at the Magic Kingdom.

Walt Disney World Resort vice president Jacquee Wahler confirmed to The Washington Post on Thursday that the company “made changes out of respect for the family.”

“We did this two weeks ago immediately following the incident,” she said via email.
A park employee, who requested to remain anonymous, told the Miami Herald that trumpet-playing alligator from “The Princess and the Frog” was removed from the summer’s Mickey’s Royal Friendship Faire Castle Show at Magic Kingdom before the premiere earlier this month.

Disney announced in February that “Goofy has invited Tiana, Naveen and Louis to add a little spice of New Orleans jazz to the party.”

Tiana, Naveen and Louis - the musically inclined alligator - are all characters in the 2009 Disney film “The Princess and the Frog.”


And visitors reported on social media that the crocodile from Peter Pan appeared to be missing from the Festival of Fantasy parade.

When asked in an email whether there other alligator and crocodile references or appearances that were removed from the Florida theme park, Wahler, a spokeswoman for Walt Disney World Resort, did not respond.
http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/n...emoves-alligator-and-crocodile-characters-its
 
They do know that the alligator characters aren't the ones that killed a kid, right? I know they did it out if respect to the family, but it still sounds a little goofy. They gonna go edit out all the characters from the movies too?
 
http://wfla.com/2016/07/14/emails-asked-firefighters-to-stop-feeding-gators-near-disney/


LAKE BUENA VISTA, Fla. (AP) – Firefighters at Walt Disney World were warned to stop feeding alligators at one of the resort’s fire stations two months before an alligator killed a toddler.

According to emails obtained by Orlando Sentinel, Reedy Creek Emergency Services admonished firefighters for feeding at least one of two alligators at a station less than a half-mile from Seven Seas Lagoon where 2-year-old son Lane Graves of Omaha, Nebraska, was killed after being pulled into the water by a gator.

Feeding alligators is illegal.
The email said employees were afraid after one gator was spotted near the parking lot and asked officials to remove it.

Reedy Creek District Administrator John Classe said Disney’s animal-control department was contacted but he did not know whether either alligator was ever removed.
 

They wouldn't be having to do this if they had adequately contained the real threat and warned it's guests appropriately.
I see negligence on both sides, but Disney has an obligation to protect it's patrons.

What if this little boy had been from Japan or Germany? Somewhere outside of the States that has no fucking clue about alligators in Florida.

There should have been better wildlife regulations and education.
Now Disney can pay up, take their lumps, and move on...doing the exact thing @Athena said they should've been doing.
 
<3

http://wfla.com/2016/07/20/family-of-toddler-killed-by-gator-at-disney-resort-wont-sue/


The family’s full statement:

“Melissa and I are broken. We will forever struggle to comprehend why this happened to our sweet baby, Lane. As each day passes, the pain gets worse, but we truly appreciate the outpouring of sympathy and warm sentiments we have received from around the world. We know that we can never have Lane back, and therefore, we intend to keep his spirit alive through the Lane Thomas Foundation. It is our hope that through the foundation we will be able to share with others the unimaginable love Lane etched in our hearts. In addition to the foundation, we will solely be focused on the future health of our family and will not be pursuing a lawsuit against Disney. For now, we continue to ask for privacy as we focus on our family.”
 
I heard on the radio that Disney is "helping" the family out. I hope it's not lifetime passes to the park.
 
Damn I feel so bad for these parents. They sound like a classy family. I hope Disney is helping out the family. It's the least they could fucking do in my opinion. I figured there'd be a fat ass lawsuit, and maybe there should be, but this family's not taking that route. They're just too traumatized to go through it all I'm sure. The fact that they're not suing makes me feel even worse for then for some reason!
 
It's possible they reached an agreement not to sue and not to talk about it, other than to say they're not suing. Sounds very Disney-esque.
 
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