The Demon's Den The Demon's Den
Forum Home Dreamin' Demon FP Twitter Facebook Page Myspace Forum Live Feed

Go Back   The Demon's Den > The Demon's Den > Three Things

Notices

Three Things Politics, Religion and Money. Forum for discussing topics that usually always end up in a flaming heap. Read this before posting!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old August 19th, 2008, 03:07 PM
Athena's Avatar
Athena Athena is offline
Buzzkill.
Points: 66,291, Level: 100
Points: 66,291, Level: 100 Points: 66,291, Level: 100 Points: 66,291, Level: 100
Activity: 14%
Activity: 14% Activity: 14% Activity: 14%
User owns 1x Easter Egg 4
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Seattle, baby! Woot!
Posts: 4,454
Groans: 0
Groaned at 23 Times in 21 Posts
Thanks: 2,541
Thanked 7,347 Times in 2,401 Posts
Blog Entries: 29
Athena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond repute
Athena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond repute
Question The Organ Deficiency

Not too long ago, Brokenandtwisted informed us of a plan to establish an opt-out system for organ donation in Canada. Canada, like everywhere these days, is suffering from a shortage of donated organs, and it's looking for solutions. Singapore is in a similar boat. Hundreds if not thousands of sick individuals are in need of organs that the country simply doesn't have. Singapore, however, is considering a direction slightly different than Canada's - Legalizing the organ trade.

Buying or selling organs is currently banned in every country but Iran. That being said, it certainly doesn't stop people from trying. In Singapore, a retail mogul, Tang Wee Sung, has been charged with attempting to buy himself a kidney for $220,000. It was in considering cases like Tang's that the health minister suggested that perhaps the city should look to offer money for kidney donations. Here in the states, they already do that with plasma.

The idea has a lot of opponents, including the Singapore Medical Association. From the article: "It is not a good idea to legalize payment for organ donors as such payment institutionalizes the belief that the wealthy ill have property rights to the body parts of the poor," says Professor A. Vathsala, director of the adult renal transplantation program and head of nephrology at Singapore's National University Hospital.

That may be true, but the fact of the matter, here, is that we've got a big problem that won't get any better with time.

What do you think? Should we allow people to be compensated for organ donations?
__________________
"Now that ceaseless exposure has calloused us to the lewd and the vulgar, it is instructive to see what still seems wicked to us. What still slaps the clammy flab of our submissive consciousness hard enough to get our attention?"
Reply With Quote
Your Ad Here
  #2  
Old August 20th, 2008, 04:47 PM
brokenandtwisted's Avatar
brokenandtwisted brokenandtwisted is offline
Shotgun Fantasy
Points: 20,819, Level: 90
Points: 20,819, Level: 90 Points: 20,819, Level: 90 Points: 20,819, Level: 90
Activity: 37%
Activity: 37% Activity: 37% Activity: 37%
User owns 3x Can of Spam
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Liquor Cabinet
Posts: 2,262
Groans: 109
Groaned at 108 Times in 92 Posts
Thanks: 1,445
Thanked 2,560 Times in 999 Posts
Blog Entries: 3
brokenandtwisted has a reputation beyond repute
brokenandtwisted has a reputation beyond reputebrokenandtwisted has a reputation beyond reputebrokenandtwisted has a reputation beyond reputebrokenandtwisted has a reputation beyond reputebrokenandtwisted has a reputation beyond reputebrokenandtwisted has a reputation beyond reputebrokenandtwisted has a reputation beyond reputebrokenandtwisted has a reputation beyond reputebrokenandtwisted has a reputation beyond reputebrokenandtwisted has a reputation beyond reputebrokenandtwisted has a reputation beyond reputebrokenandtwisted has a reputation beyond reputebrokenandtwisted has a reputation beyond reputebrokenandtwisted has a reputation beyond reputebrokenandtwisted has a reputation beyond reputebrokenandtwisted has a reputation beyond reputebrokenandtwisted has a reputation beyond reputebrokenandtwisted has a reputation beyond reputebrokenandtwisted has a reputation beyond reputebrokenandtwisted has a reputation beyond reputebrokenandtwisted has a reputation beyond reputebrokenandtwisted has a reputation beyond reputebrokenandtwisted has a reputation beyond reputebrokenandtwisted has a reputation beyond reputebrokenandtwisted has a reputation beyond reputebrokenandtwisted has a reputation beyond reputebrokenandtwisted has a reputation beyond reputebrokenandtwisted has a reputation beyond reputebrokenandtwisted has a reputation beyond reputebrokenandtwisted has a reputation beyond reputebrokenandtwisted has a reputation beyond repute
Default

I am not sure if anyone else has it, but Ontario has a small compensation program set up for living organ donation. The system I suppose is small-scaled in comparison to what's stated...but if the government pays you for organs you don't need such as a kidney, lung or liver (portion), I believe people would do it. Then again it's just compensation for what you've loss through working, illness and the likes.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old August 20th, 2008, 08:52 PM
Dakota Valkyrie's Avatar
Dakota Valkyrie Dakota Valkyrie is offline
Oblivious with reason
Points: 170,692, Level: 100
Points: 170,692, Level: 100 Points: 170,692, Level: 100 Points: 170,692, Level: 100
Activity: 99%
Activity: 99% Activity: 99% Activity: 99%
User owns 1x Easter Basket
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: the edge of North Dakota
Posts: 12,936
Groans: 3
Groaned at 10 Times in 7 Posts
Thanks: 6,818
Thanked 28,683 Times in 8,862 Posts
Blog Entries: 15
Dakota Valkyrie has a reputation beyond reputeDakota Valkyrie has a reputation beyond reputeDakota Valkyrie has a reputation beyond reputeDakota Valkyrie has a reputation beyond reputeDakota Valkyrie has a reputation beyond repute
Dakota Valkyrie has a reputation beyond reputeDakota Valkyrie has a reputation beyond reputeDakota Valkyrie has a reputation beyond reputeDakota Valkyrie has a reputation beyond reputeDakota Valkyrie has a reputation beyond reputeDakota Valkyrie has a reputation beyond reputeDakota Valkyrie has a reputation beyond reputeDakota Valkyrie has a reputation beyond reputeDakota Valkyrie has a reputation beyond reputeDakota Valkyrie has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Nevermind... I thought this was going to be about Pete Bondurant...
__________________
When deeds speak, words are nothing.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Dakota Valkyrie For This Useful Post:
  #4  
Old August 20th, 2008, 08:53 PM
Pete Bondurant's Avatar
Pete Bondurant Pete Bondurant is offline
The Shakedown King
Points: 21,392, Level: 92
Points: 21,392, Level: 92 Points: 21,392, Level: 92 Points: 21,392, Level: 92
Activity: 27%
Activity: 27% Activity: 27% Activity: 27%
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Legio Patria Mea
Posts: 2,899
Groans: 7
Groaned at 105 Times in 78 Posts
Thanks: 196
Thanked 3,282 Times in 1,379 Posts
Blog Entries: 17
Pete Bondurant has a reputation beyond repute
Pete Bondurant has a reputation beyond reputePete Bondurant has a reputation beyond reputePete Bondurant has a reputation beyond reputePete Bondurant has a reputation beyond reputePete Bondurant has a reputation beyond reputePete Bondurant has a reputation beyond reputePete Bondurant has a reputation beyond reputePete Bondurant has a reputation beyond reputePete Bondurant has a reputation beyond reputePete Bondurant has a reputation beyond reputePete Bondurant has a reputation beyond reputePete Bondurant has a reputation beyond reputePete Bondurant has a reputation beyond reputePete Bondurant has a reputation beyond reputePete Bondurant has a reputation beyond reputePete Bondurant has a reputation beyond reputePete Bondurant has a reputation beyond reputePete Bondurant has a reputation beyond reputePete Bondurant has a reputation beyond reputePete Bondurant has a reputation beyond reputePete Bondurant has a reputation beyond reputePete Bondurant has a reputation beyond reputePete Bondurant has a reputation beyond reputePete Bondurant has a reputation beyond reputePete Bondurant has a reputation beyond reputePete Bondurant has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota_Valkyrie View Post
Nevermind... I thought this was going to be about Pete Bondurant...
Hey!

The only organ of mine that is deficient, is my liver.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Pete Bondurant For This Useful Post:
  #5  
Old August 21st, 2008, 06:26 AM
Boondock's Avatar
Boondock Boondock is offline
Great Marshal
Points: 1,792, Level: 24
Points: 1,792, Level: 24 Points: 1,792, Level: 24 Points: 1,792, Level: 24
Activity: 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Midwest
Posts: 220
Groans: 0
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks: 655
Thanked 280 Times in 118 Posts
Blog Entries: 3
Boondock has a spectacular aura aboutBoondock has a spectacular aura aboutBoondock has a spectacular aura about
Default

I think they should be compensated for time lost at work. Also, whatever money for essentials they spend during the time they are laid up should be reimbursed. That way, they are getting compensated but they're not making money.
__________________
**Trauma Queen**
It's not that I want you to get hurt... I just want to be there when you do!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old August 21st, 2008, 12:28 PM
Athena's Avatar
Athena Athena is offline
Buzzkill.
Points: 66,291, Level: 100
Points: 66,291, Level: 100 Points: 66,291, Level: 100 Points: 66,291, Level: 100
Activity: 14%
Activity: 14% Activity: 14% Activity: 14%
User owns 1x Easter Egg 4
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Seattle, baby! Woot!
Posts: 4,454
Groans: 0
Groaned at 23 Times in 21 Posts
Thanks: 2,541
Thanked 7,347 Times in 2,401 Posts
Blog Entries: 29
Athena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond repute
Athena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Why don't we want them to make money?
__________________
"Now that ceaseless exposure has calloused us to the lewd and the vulgar, it is instructive to see what still seems wicked to us. What still slaps the clammy flab of our submissive consciousness hard enough to get our attention?"
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old August 21st, 2008, 03:26 PM
brokenandtwisted's Avatar
brokenandtwisted brokenandtwisted is offline
Shotgun Fantasy
Points: 20,819, Level: 90
Points: 20,819, Level: 90 Points: 20,819, Level: 90 Points: 20,819, Level: 90
Activity: 37%
Activity: 37% Activity: 37% Activity: 37%
User owns 3x Can of Spam
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Liquor Cabinet
Posts: 2,262
Groans: 109
Groaned at 108 Times in 92 Posts
Thanks: 1,445
Thanked 2,560 Times in 999 Posts
Blog Entries: 3
brokenandtwisted has a reputation beyond repute
brokenandtwisted has a reputation beyond reputebrokenandtwisted has a reputation beyond reputebrokenandtwisted has a reputation beyond reputebrokenandtwisted has a reputation beyond reputebrokenandtwisted has a reputation beyond reputebrokenandtwisted has a reputation beyond reputebrokenandtwisted has a reputation beyond reputebrokenandtwisted has a reputation beyond reputebrokenandtwisted has a reputation beyond reputebrokenandtwisted has a reputation beyond reputebrokenandtwisted has a reputation beyond reputebrokenandtwisted has a reputation beyond reputebrokenandtwisted has a reputation beyond reputebrokenandtwisted has a reputation beyond reputebrokenandtwisted has a reputation beyond reputebrokenandtwisted has a reputation beyond reputebrokenandtwisted has a reputation beyond reputebrokenandtwisted has a reputation beyond reputebrokenandtwisted has a reputation beyond reputebrokenandtwisted has a reputation beyond reputebrokenandtwisted has a reputation beyond reputebrokenandtwisted has a reputation beyond reputebrokenandtwisted has a reputation beyond reputebrokenandtwisted has a reputation beyond reputebrokenandtwisted has a reputation beyond reputebrokenandtwisted has a reputation beyond reputebrokenandtwisted has a reputation beyond reputebrokenandtwisted has a reputation beyond reputebrokenandtwisted has a reputation beyond reputebrokenandtwisted has a reputation beyond reputebrokenandtwisted has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Athena View Post
Why don't we want them to make money?
Because you're donating and not selling. I think that's the policy we have.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old August 22nd, 2008, 03:41 AM
Boondock's Avatar
Boondock Boondock is offline
Great Marshal
Points: 1,792, Level: 24
Points: 1,792, Level: 24 Points: 1,792, Level: 24 Points: 1,792, Level: 24
Activity: 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Midwest
Posts: 220
Groans: 0
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks: 655
Thanked 280 Times in 118 Posts
Blog Entries: 3
Boondock has a spectacular aura aboutBoondock has a spectacular aura aboutBoondock has a spectacular aura about
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Athena View Post
Why don't we want them to make money?
I think paying organ donors is a slippery slope. One that could possibly lead to only the rich having the opportunity for donated organs. I think that organ donation should stay on a "most needed" basis rather than a "who can pay the most."

I guess in the end, the thought of paying people for their organs kinda creeps me out a bit.
__________________
**Trauma Queen**
It's not that I want you to get hurt... I just want to be there when you do!
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old August 22nd, 2008, 12:04 PM
Athena's Avatar
Athena Athena is offline
Buzzkill.
Points: 66,291, Level: 100
Points: 66,291, Level: 100 Points: 66,291, Level: 100 Points: 66,291, Level: 100
Activity: 14%
Activity: 14% Activity: 14% Activity: 14%
User owns 1x Easter Egg 4
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Seattle, baby! Woot!
Posts: 4,454
Groans: 0
Groaned at 23 Times in 21 Posts
Thanks: 2,541
Thanked 7,347 Times in 2,401 Posts
Blog Entries: 29
Athena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond repute
Athena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond reputeAthena has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boondock View Post
I think paying organ donors is a slippery slope. One that could possibly lead to only the rich having the opportunity for donated organs. I think that organ donation should stay on a "most needed" basis rather than a "who can pay the most."

I guess in the end, the thought of paying people for their organs kinda creeps me out a bit.
Well, it's too late for that. There's a healthy organ black market out there, despite the nearly world-wide ban.

That being said, we're not talking about an open market subject to increases in demand and such. We're talking about a state-run (or monitored) program, much like the one that already exists in some places, that would simply give people a little more than the cost of lost wages and such to encourage "donation". People get paid for plasma donation...Not exactly a slippery slope, right?

Are you seriously telling me you'd be against that based solely on the "creep" factor? :p
__________________
"Now that ceaseless exposure has calloused us to the lewd and the vulgar, it is instructive to see what still seems wicked to us. What still slaps the clammy flab of our submissive consciousness hard enough to get our attention?"
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old August 22nd, 2008, 02:42 PM
Boondock's Avatar
Boondock Boondock is offline
Great Marshal
Points: 1,792, Level: 24
Points: 1,792, Level: 24 Points: 1,792, Level: 24 Points: 1,792, Level: 24
Activity: 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Midwest
Posts: 220
Groans: 0
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks: 655
Thanked 280 Times in 118 Posts
Blog Entries: 3
Boondock has a spectacular aura aboutBoondock has a spectacular aura aboutBoondock has a spectacular aura about
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Athena View Post
Are you seriously telling me you'd be against that based solely on the "creep" factor? :p
Well, no... not SOLELY :)

Quote:
Well, it's too late for that. There's a healthy organ black market out there, despite the nearly world-wide ban.
I am aware of that. I just think that legalizing it and thereby taking away current restrictions on "honest" doctors would lead to a greater amount of abuse. (thus the slippery slope I was talking about - I just wonder where exactly the bottom of that slope lies)

Quote:
We're talking about a state-run (or monitored) program, much like the one that already exists in some places
I am not aware of these programs. Would you mind elaborating a bit on their regulations, etc?

Quote:
that would simply give people a little more than the cost of lost wages and such to encourage "donation".
I get your point about it not being an open market sort of situation and subject to demand. I suppose if there were a set amount to give to the donors and the organs were still given based on need, then I don't think I'd have much of a problem with it.

I guess my knee jerk reaction was to imagine rich folk buying themselves organs while the plebes stood on the side lines waiting for left overs. If that wouldn't be the case, my objections are whittled down simply to the "creeps", and as previously established: I would not be against it based SOLELY on the creep factor
__________________
**Trauma Queen**
It's not that I want you to get hurt... I just want to be there when you do!
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Demon's Den > The Demon's Den > Three Things

Bookmarks

Tags
deficiency, organ, organ donations, singapore, the organ trade


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Your Ad Here

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:04 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.