Taste-Testing Booze in Grocery Stores

[Athena]

Being a native Washingtonian, I'm tempted to name our wine as the most underrated in the world. Our beer seems to attain more notoriety (as out-of-staters seem to be more familiar with our breweries), and it is well deserved. No matter which way you slice it, Washington is some fantastic drinking country.

Just recently, to help promote Washington's wine and beer industries,the Washington State Senate okayed a pilot program that will allow consumers to taste wine and beer at local grocery stores. Here's how it will work:

- Stores are limited to one tasting per month
- Wine and beer samples must be two ounces or less
- Each customer may have up to a total of four ounces
- No more than one sample of any single brand and type of wine or beer may be provided to a customer during any one visit to the premises
- Food must be available for tasters
- Stores may only advertise tasting events inside the store
- The service area and facilities must be located within the store’s fully enclosed retail area
- Store employees must be able to observe and control participants to ensure that minors and apparently intoxicated persons cannot possess or consume alcohol
- Customers must remain in the service area while consuming samples

Seems pretty reasonable, right? Well, not to some. Apparently, such tastings are a bad example for children. You know, the same children who undoubtedly see their taste-testing mommy sip wine with dinner, or mimosas at lunch, or the "adult punch" at BBQs. Opponents say that this will confuse kids about the drunk driving message. In my opinion, the drunk driving message is pretty clear - .08BAC is the legal limit. 4 ounces will keep you well under the legal limit. When they're old enough to drink themselves, they'll be able to do the math.

Meanwhile, the tasting will have a positive effect on children, in my opinion. It has been stated that one of the reasons our European counterparts don't have the issues with binge drinking and alcoholism that we do is because, in European culture, alcohol is closely associated with food and special occasions, family interaction and such. It's not necessarily about driving all the way across town to the closest bar and getting shitty. These tastings will illustrate that alcohol really is about taste and that it can be enjoyed thoroughly in limited amounts.

But that's just my $.02. Would you like to see beer and wine taste-testing at your local grocery store?

[Aelwynn]

What's to stop someone from going from one store to another? No offense, to anyone here but I don't drink at all. I don't want to set a bad example for my children. We outlawed all alcohol from our house when my eldest was born. Honestly, I don't want my children going to the market with me and seeing people drinking wine/beer to "taste test".

I just don't see how this is an important thing. I get that some people want to taste test their wine to make sure it suits their needs or their meal perfectly. However, when it's in the same store that my kids are going to - ie Safeway's wine selection is right near the damn bread! - I don't want my kids asking what they are drinking and if they can have some too. I shouldn't be put into that position in a supermarket of all places.

I'm hoping they card the minors very effectively. Good luck with all those lightweights.

Honestly though, they outlaw plastic bags but want to pass this to include taste testing alcohol. Real great idea!

I won't stop shopping at the store because of my own feelings on this, however I won't go to shop there during these "taste testing" times.

[Athena]

Originally Posted by Aelwynn

What's to stop someone from going from one store to another? No offense, to anyone here but I don't drink at all. I don't want to set a bad example for my children. We outlawed all alcohol from our house when my eldest was born. Honestly, I don't want my children going to the market with me and seeing people drinking wine/beer to "taste test".

I just don't see how this is an important thing. I get that some people want to taste test their wine to make sure it suits their needs or their meal perfectly. However, when it's in the same store that my kids are going to - ie Safeway's wine selection is right near the damn bread! - I don't want my kids asking what they are drinking and if they can have some too. I shouldn't be put into that position in a supermarket of all places.

Even if every grocery store in Washington was doing this (which there will be only 30 to begin with), I suppose there's nothing stopping people from going from store to store, except the inconvenience and the fact that 4 ounces is the tasting limit. That's a total of 1/4th of a beer. At that rate, I would have to visit 32 stores VERY quickly to even catch a buzz. So, there's really no concern there.

I think it's interesting that you view alcohol as automatically "a bad example". I think it really speaks to how twisted the American view of alcohol has become. It's only bad if it's used irresponsibly, and the same can be said of almost everything.

Lastly, why wouldn't you want to be made to address the issue of alcohol with your children, especially if you feel so strongly about it? I'd think it would be an ideal opportunity to educate them. Do you plan to pretend it doesn't exist? :p

[mammasweets]

Originally Posted by Athena

Even if every grocery store in Washington was doing this (which there will be only 30 to begin with), I suppose there's nothing stopping people from going from store to store, except the inconvenience and the fact that 4 ounces is the tasting limit. That's a total of 1/4th of a beer. At that rate, I would have to visit 32 stores VERY quickly to even catch a buzz. So, there's really no concern there.

I think it's interesting that you view alcohol as automatically "a bad example". I think it really speaks to how twisted the American view of alcohol has become. It's only bad if it's used irresponsibly, and the same can be said of almost everything.

Lastly, why wouldn't you want to be made to address the issue of alcohol with your children, especially if you feel so strongly about it? I'd think it would be an ideal opportunity to educate them. Do you plan to pretend it doesn't exist? :p

You beat me to it. Children learn by example. This shouldn't be a big deal. It's a tiny tester cup not a bunch of lushes sitting around passing a bottle. Why make such a big deal out of something so minor?

[Rotten Apple]

Originally Posted by Athena

But that's just my $.02. Would you like to see beer and wine taste-testing at your local grocery store?

We already have it. :D
They serve the samples in what amounts to a small medicine cup. Each serving is about one ounce. People who complain, need to go look at what amounts to one ounce. That is a very very small amount. And considering that you are actually there for a tasting, you usually don;t even finish the ounce. Some of the stuff they sample out is pretty nasty.

I don't think there is anything wrong with it at all. How is this a bad influence on children? I see kids out to dinner all the time with their parents where the parent is having a cocktail or beer with dinner. the samplings are usually accompanied by high fat foods like nuts and cheese.

Originally Posted by Aelwynn

What's to stop someone from going from one store to another? No offense, to anyone here but I don't drink at all. I don't want to set a bad example for my children.

What's to stop one person from going from one restaurant to another? People drink in front of children all the time. Are you telling me that you never eat out with your child? I am a drinker (obviously) but I am also a responsible parent. I keep liquor and beer in the house and when my daughter asks about it, I tell her the truth. I tell her it is alcohol and that is for adults only. It is completely out of her reach. She has never seen me drunk or out of control in anyway.

Besides, these are very small amounts of alcohol. One ounce servings! 4 ounces total. I don't know many lightweights that can get drunk off of that. This isn't straight liquor we are talking about. This is wine and beer. And they DO card you.

Eventually you are going to have to talk to your children about alcohol and drug use anyway. Alcohol is legal. They will eventually be put in a position where they have the chance to partake. You make it so taboo to where you don't even want to be QUESTIONED about it and it will seem even that much more desirable.

This taste testing isn't like some frat party. Their goal is to sell their product. It is just like any other food sampling at a grocery store. However, it is more controlled because of the nature of the product and the laws governing it.

[Dakota Valkyrie]

Originally Posted by Aelwynn

No offense, to anyone here but I don't drink at all. I don't want to set a bad example for my children.

I have not had a drink in nearly 20 years. I don't drink because I would set a horrid example for my kids. My husband is fully capable of handling alcohol responsibly and I drive. HOWEVER, we took every reasonable opportunity to let our kids see responsible drinking. If i had done a blanket elimination of it, they would have soon realized I was a nut and people could drink reasonably... except they would have never been taught what responsible behavior looked like or what expectations were.

In North Dakota, you can't even buy beer or wine anywhere but a liquor store which must be separate from other stores but i would have no objection to tastings in grocery stores.

Servers will be able to pick out the winos from the rest of the lot. Folks looking for a cheap drunk will spend a lot of gas money if all the stores do a tasting on the same night. Cheaper to just buy the beer and sit at home.

[Aelwynn]

I think it's interesting that you view alcohol as automatically "a bad example". I think it really speaks to how twisted the American view of alcohol has become. It's only bad if it's used irresponsibly, and the same can be said of almost everything.

Wow Athena just wow. I view MY drinking in front of MY children as setting a bad example. If I'm going to be telling them I don't want them drinking, then I shouldn't be drinking myself. It's our religious, moral, and parental beliefs not to allow our children to be around alcohol. I don't like double standards.

I don't see a problem with OTHER people drinking. If you want to drink go right ahead, but MY family won't be partaking in this. I also see zero reason why how I raise my kids should be applied to "how twisted the American view of alcohol has become". My view isn't twisted at all. This is just how we picked to raise our kids. How are you raising yours Athena?

Why is my parenting under attack now Athena? These are just the beliefs and rules we set in our household. Such as no parties where alcohol is involved until you are legally able to drink. These are our religious beliefs (which are "supposed" to be adhered to) as well as our own personal beliefs. There should be no reason why you are calling both of these into judgement.

I never said ALL alcohol drinking is setting a "bad example". I just said MY drinking is a bad example. I can't tell my kids "no don't do that", when I'm doing it. I don't feel the need to put my children in an awkward position where others are partaking of something that I have expressly forbidden them from.

(JIC THIS is what I REALLY said:
No offense, to anyone here but I don't drink at all. I don't want to set a bad example for my children. We outlawed all alcohol from our house when my eldest was born.)

Lastly, why wouldn't you want to be made to address the issue of alcohol with your children, especially if you feel so strongly about it? I'd think it would be an ideal opportunity to educate them. Do you plan to pretend it doesn't exist?

I don't see the point in discussing this with my daughter when she is FOUR years old, nor do I even want her wondering about it until at LEAST mid teens. Don't even bother trying to tell me to lie and say it's apple juice either. I don't lie to my kids. I'll discuss it when it's time for US - not when it's forced on us by the public.

I have not had a drink in nearly 20 years. I don't drink because I would set a horrid example for my kids. My husband is fully capable of handling alcohol responsibly and I drive.

This is exactly how I feel. We drink responsibly, or used to a long time ago. However we haven't touched a drop in so many years that we don't care for it. Nor do we care to even be around it. That's why we have friends that completely understand how we feel about it.

Are you telling me that you never eat out with your child?

I eat out with my children in child friendly environments. AKA I don't go to Fridays and sit at the bar with my kid. That would be just stupid on my part. I don't put my children in a situation where I should feel the need to explain the actions of other adults to my children. I don't let anyone drink in my house, and I don't let them be around other people when they are drinking. That's just how our world works. It's considered good parenting skills on my part.

However, we've only gone out to eat with the kids twice now. When they are a bit older in their tweens, we might sit them down early if we are going out to eat and have the drink talk. Otherwise, there's no reason why I should be forced via peer pressure to take my children into any environment that I deem unfit. We also don't really like to eat out that much.

However, there are some people out there that ARE lightweights. My brother gets drunk off the smell of vodka alone. He stopped drinking because of this. Yes, I'm dead serious that's the reason why. So like I said, what's to stop people from going store to store? In Tacoma alone there are 4 different supermarkets all within a block radius, and those are just the ones I shop at. It would be very easy for me to go from store to store.

I see no problem with other people partaking of this, just my children being around it. I'm not going to enforce my beliefs/parenting on others. I just won't go to those stores with my kids during the "alcohol testing" days. I see zero reason why my opinion on this should even be attacked.

As for making a big "deal out of something so minor" - in our household THIS is a big deal. This is right up there with the sex conversations we're going to be having with them. But that doesn't mean that I'm going to go out and start stomping my feet over it to some congressman just cause I don't agree. I don't feel the need to attack other people's views on life unless they are completely screwed up (like raping a child).

PS. I don't know why my parenting skills and my own personal beliefs on this are coming into question, especially when I'm not infringing on your rights to have the taste test. My parenting and beliefs are NOT up for discussion on this topic...I will discuss other things such as when you introduce sippy cups, but NOT drinking in front of my kids. Honestly, it's really none of your damn business why I'm against subjecting my children to it. I just am, but that's not going to make me stop you from partaking in it. Go ahead, but I won't be.

[Rotten Apple]

Originally Posted by Aelwynn

I eat out with my children in child friendly environments. AKA I don't go to Fridays and sit at the bar with my kid. That would be just stupid on my part.

I don't go out to Friday's and sit at the bar with my kid either. But I do go to Fridays and other places. There are other people eating there too. Lots of times, you'll see some of the ladies with the slushie fruity alcoholic beverages that they make. Those are more appealing to my kid than the wine samples in a cup.

As a matter of fact, she and I met her father out for dinner last night to discuss her first day of school. We went to a Mexican restaurant where they serve the BEST margaritas. I ended up ordering one. She asked me about it, never asked me for a drink because I explained to her that it had alcohol in it and was for adults only. I told her that alcohol was bad for her because she was a growing girl and that it would affect her brain development.

I give her the same sort of explanation for caffeine too. She's ok with it. I'm her mother, she accepts my authority. And hopefully, I am giving her the skills to make the right decisions when she is older and no longer living in my house or under my supervision.

Aelwynn, no one is attacking you personally, we are debating your views. You just happen to have a minority opinion here. This is the three things thread, specifically made for this type of debate. I did not freak out when you said that banning alcohol was good parenting. That would mean I was a bad parent right?

[celtic friend]

Ael,
Forgive me because I did not read it ALL. But I believe that what people seem surprised at is not the fact that you don't drink around your child but your belief that no one can drink responsibly.

[Aelwynn]

Celtic. I'm sure it's a wall of text and most people will skip it. I expect people to. Or at least skim it. I don't think "all people can't drink responsibly". I think a LOT of people can. It just goes against my morals, religion, and parental views - as well as my entire family's - to drink alcohol or be around it. Dating back to when our religion was created.

I'd rather not feel the peer pressure of "oh just a sip", when I know for a fact I personally used to out drink everyone I knew. It'll never be just a sip for me, and I don't want to go back to that old lifestyle.

You just happen to have a minority opinion here. This is the three things thread, specifically made for this type of debate. I did not freak out when you said that banning alcohol was good parenting. That would mean I was a bad parent right?

I try to take these types of threads all in stride. I do know I have a minority opinion. Not many people have the same religious views as we do, nor take them as seriously. This isn't just about our religion though. This is how we feel as parents.

I do feel this is good parenting, for OUR family (I don't know about your family). We banned alcohol from our children's lives until they are at least of an age (like 12-13) to understand exactly why we feel the way we do. Until then there are a lot of "whys" that a child just will not understand.

These views I have are a product of my religion, my own personal experience with drinking, how I react to just the smell of alcohol now, and how my children will view it. I don't want to subject my children to something without them completely understanding for themselves why we expressly forbid it.

Actually...surprisingly enough when we have the "talk" about drinking, we're going to sit our eldest down (the wild one - takes after me) and let her have just a sip of the nastiest beer ever and tell her that it's really digusting, as well as why we disagree with society's opinion on drinking being ok. We're hoping that and a few other things will stop her from drinking until she's 21. (We won't even hate her for drinking, cause it's her choice then)

However, just because I have a different set rule in my household doesn't mean that it's a wrong way to raise my kids. Honestly, we'll have the talk when they are old enough to understand. Until then, I'm not letting them OR myself near a drop of it.

[Dakota Valkyrie]

Chill pill, Aelwynn :) I don't think anyone is questioning your parenting. More like trying to understand and fit it into their own logic. Because the example "taste tests" would set for children was brought into the mix, I think parents opinions on it are fair game. But just like any topic, disagreeing isn't necessarily condemnation.

Everyone likes to have others agree with them and tries to get folks to "see the light". It's not personal. I am sure many see things I've said around here about how I raise my kids - and many think I'm a total whack job for some of my ideas... and visa versa.

Disagreeing with you on an issue that involves parenting (as opposed to disagreeing with your stance on - for example - "penguins in Fargo") hits closer to the quick because it is an emotionally charged issue. But the tendancy to try to convince each other that one side is "right" is universal... even when both sides are "right" for each person. It's not aimed at you - it's aimed at understanding or attempts at persuasion.

If anyone had said "Your kids should be in a foster home" or "You're wasting your time at parenting, you tiddly wink", I would feel different, but folks are just trying to either see your point or make you see theirs. Nothing personal.

BTW -I think penguins in Fargo should be made to wear bowties & tophats. Deal with it. :)

[Rotten Apple]

Originally Posted by Dakota_Valkyrie

BTW -I think penguins in Fargo should be made to wear bowties & tophats. Deal with it. :)

You are INSANE!!! The penguins in Fargo don't need your conservative
views thrust upon them!

They should be allowed to roam free and as nekkid as the day they were hatched.

You Dakota, are a penguin Nazi.

[Aelwynn]

Yeah see, because this is all typing...it's REALLY hard to tell who's being a total bitch about it or not. This is just an issue that will never change in my family even in generations to come. It's not up for debate honestly, cause I'll never change my mind about this or sex when it comes my kids.

I honestly think I flew off the handle because I was being blamed for all of society's wrong thinking about drinking, at least that's how I read it. Also as well as Celtic (I know she didn't read it all) saying that I deem EVERY drinker an abused drinker. I didn't think that was the case at all. I was thinking about the teenagers that would get fake IDs.

But seriously, if you all wanna do it - kudos to you. Go partake of the lovely wine and random alcoholic drink cups. LOL But I won't be there.

As for penguins...sunglasses. That snow there gives sunburn, so get them some lotion and glasses! ;P :tongue1:

Oh yeah...duh, edit. Kathy I wasn't saying that you were having bad parenting etc. I was saying it's good parenting in my case. Everyone's different. So are their parenting methods. Mine's just a bit harder to understand since you can't really understand my position unless you are a member of our immediate family. It's just good parenting in our instance instead of answering all the why's and my daughter having a fucked up opinion of drinking cause of it. I want her to understand for herself, not just cause mommy and daddy said no.

[Rotten Apple]

Originally Posted by Aelwynn

These views I have are a product of my religion, my own personal experience with drinking, how I react to just the smell of alcohol now, and how my children will view it. I don't want to subject my children to something without them completely understanding for themselves why we expressly forbid it.

That is understandable. My reasons for forbidding my child to drink alcohol have nothing to do with religion (hell I was raised Catholic - where you get a sip of wine in Mass) and everything to do with obeying the law and her well being.

At 6, she understands obeying the law and she understands having a "healthy body and mind." She definitely doesn't understand religion, but neither do I. So whatever.

Also, if your children attend public school, they will discuss alcohol during the drug talks. So they will definitely be coming home with questions for you way before their tween years. My daughter discussed it in kindergarten...5 years old. Be prepared for that.

No one thinks you are raising your children the WRONG way. As long as they are healthy and happy, it is the right way.

However, I don't believe your religious, moral and parental views should be forced upon the general public as is the case with these people that want to ban taste testing.

I parent the way I see fit. My child is healthy, happy and well adjusted. I do not need someone else coming in and deciding what is best for me.

Edit: That last bitchy paragraph was not meant for you Aelwynn, but for the people who are trying to ban the testing based on children.

Dammit, I need a drink... :p

[Dakota Valkyrie]

Originally Posted by Aelwynn

This is just an issue that will never change in my family even in generations to come. It's not up for debate honestly, cause I'll never change my mind about this or sex when it comes my kids.

Think of it this way, participants may or may not be swayed by the discussion BUT a good healthy debate may sway someone not participating in the discussion... to either side. Or give food for thought that doesn't hit until sometime down the road... on either side of the road.

I know this board has caused some unused parts of my brain to get in gear and question my thoughts... I'm always happy when i agree with myself and surprised when I have to re-think or switch thoughts.

Sunglasses with top hats and bow ties is tacky. Maybe in NC trailer parks it would be OK.

[Aelwynn]

Yeah I agree with you Kathy. I'd never enforce my opinions about this on anyone else. That's why I'm not really up in arms about it. Zomgz, I should start a riot. keke

Do they really start bringing this up in school that young? My daughter is still only a little over 2. Geez. What does a 5 yr old need to know about drinking?!

It's not just religion honestly. Religion is a part. It's illegal and it's not really healthy...so when it comes time I'm going to be telling her all of this. But until then I'm really sitting on that edge of "should I talk to her NOW or should we wait until she 'gets it' a bit better?". I just want her to understand why I feel the way I do, and make a judgement call for herself. But not till she's 21. LOL

Edit: Yeah I figured that last paragraph was towards the psychos that feel the need to ban it. I just don't see why it's a HUGE deal. They can just avoid those places or whatnot.

Glasses are not tacky! It's protection. From sun. It's good. How come you've an issue with the sunglasses but not the lotion? LOL

[Rotten Apple]

Yep. They do. The younger they get 'em the better. There have been drug users as young as 9. Look at the toddlers featured on this site that were given marijuana and alcohol as young as 2 and 4 years old!

They also have the good touch bad touch talk...but they won't do that one without your permission.

Oh yeah, and RECYCLING. Jiminy Crickets they have brain-washed my child. She won't get off my back!

[Aelwynn]

See, iono if it's different just from where we grew up, but the talks about drugs and sex didn't really start for me until about age 8 from my own parents. During school, the sex and stuff didn't pop up until about 12? Probably around there. I don't know, so long ago.

I understand about debating stuff like no drinking vs. drinking. I like debating with Athena, cause she honestly makes me think. Some of the things she says, just hits a bit too close to home - I think she does it on purpose to get a rile outta me. LOL I'm all up for debating sippy cups.

But THIS, the people protesting it, I'm in full agree-ance that it's kinda stupid to force your ideas on other people. Especially when not many people agree with it. It's like an up hill battle that will end with you rolling back down the hill.

[Dakota Valkyrie]

If someone is so hard up for a drink that they are walking from store to store, I think the clerks will know they are cherry picking rather than shopping. Hell, they'd burn off any effect of that small amount just on the exercise. And that's only if every store in X radius was having a tasting night. Plus they would have food available too.

I tend to think that the vast majority of folks taking a "taste" would do so out of genuine interest in tasting. Yes there would be idiots.

The whole thing is to be set up and monitored in a much better fashion than the ice cream or teeny weenie samplers. (thank god for old ladies that can't say "no" to cute kids I send thru the line for me 5-6 times) Breaking a store rule is a far lesser offense than breaking the law.

[Athena]

Originally Posted by Aelwynn

Wow Athena just wow. I view MY drinking in front of MY children as setting a bad example. If I'm going to be telling them I don't want them drinking, then I shouldn't be drinking myself. It's our religious, moral, and parental beliefs not to allow our children to be around alcohol. I don't like double standards.

I don't see a problem with OTHER people drinking. If you want to drink go right ahead, but MY family won't be partaking in this. I also see zero reason why how I raise my kids should be applied to "how twisted the American view of alcohol has become". My view isn't twisted at all. This is just how we picked to raise our kids. How are you raising yours Athena?

Why is my parenting under attack now Athena? These are just the beliefs and rules we set in our household. Such as no parties where alcohol is involved until you are legally able to drink. These are our religious beliefs (which are "supposed" to be adhered to) as well as our own personal beliefs. There should be no reason why you are calling both of these into judgement.

I never said ALL alcohol drinking is setting a "bad example". I just said MY drinking is a bad example. I can't tell my kids "no don't do that", when I'm doing it. I don't feel the need to put my children in an awkward position where others are partaking of something that I have expressly forbidden them from.

(JIC THIS is what I REALLY said:
No offense, to anyone here but I don't drink at all. I don't want to set a bad example for my children. We outlawed all alcohol from our house when my eldest was born.)

Yes, I knew exactly what you had said, and, if you weren't referring to alcohol consumption in general, I don't know why you would have said, "No offense to anybody here..." Still, you said very plainly that you don't drink because you don't want to set a bad example. I just mentioned that it was interesting that you view drinking, period, as setting a bad example. It doesn't matter whether it's limited to your home or not. You said drinking sets a bad example. If you meant something different, you should have phrased it more specifically.

Frankly, I don't care how you raise your kids, so long as they're clothed, fed, loved and educated, which I'm sure they are. I had all sorts of friends with weird parents. Some didn't own TVs, others were taught to believe dinosaurs never existed, others yet didn't allow their children sugar. I would never tell these people to raise their kids differently, but I'm certainly allowed to have an opinion.

I don't see the point in discussing this with my daughter when she is FOUR years old, nor do I even want her wondering about it until at LEAST mid teens. Don't even bother trying to tell me to lie and say it's apple juice either. I don't lie to my kids. I'll discuss it when it's time for US - not when it's forced on us by the public.

Mid-teens? Why wait that long? Do you think educating your kids will encourage them, or something? If a kid asks me a question, I give them a straight answer. No sense in lying, but there's even less sense in keeping them in the dark. If they're curious and aware enough to ask, it's time to give them an answer. If you'd rather wait until YOU feel comfortable, that's your choice as a parent. But it doesn't sound like a particularly responsible policy, to me.

However, there are some people out there that ARE lightweights. My brother gets drunk off the smell of vodka alone. He stopped drinking because of this. Yes, I'm dead serious that's the reason why. So like I said, what's to stop people from going store to store? In Tacoma alone there are 4 different supermarkets all within a block radius, and those are just the ones I shop at. It would be very easy for me to go from store to store.

Bullshit. No one gets drunk off fumes. That's biologically impossible. If you're not exaggerating, and your brother seriously claims the smell of vodka gets him drunk, dude's a head case, and it's just as well that he quit. As for the rest of the population, there may be some rare allergy that causes .0001% of the population to be intoxicated by slight amounts of alcohol, but I've never heard of such a thing, so it can't be common.

Again, a person would have to go to four stores within an hour to get the equivalent of a single drink, which still puts them will under the legal .08BAC legal limit. However, it's unlikely that these stores, limited to a single tasting a month, would all have their tastings the same day and time. THAT'S what'll stop people from going from one store to the next.

I see no problem with other people partaking of this, just my children being around it. I'm not going to enforce my beliefs/parenting on others. I just won't go to those stores with my kids during the "alcohol testing" days. I see zero reason why my opinion on this should even be attacked.

Aelwynn, if any of your opinions have been attacked, this isn't one of them. Frankly, this is the most responsible thing you've said.

PS. I don't know why my parenting skills and my own personal beliefs on this are coming into question, especially when I'm not infringing on your rights to have the taste test. My parenting and beliefs are NOT up for discussion on this topic...I will discuss other things such as when you introduce sippy cups, but NOT drinking in front of my kids. Honestly, it's really none of your damn business why I'm against subjecting my children to it. I just am, but that's not going to make me stop you from partaking in it. Go ahead, but I won't be.

If you offer it as a public opinion, it's up for debate. That's all that's happening, here. Your opinions about parenting are no more off-limits than your opinions about anything else. Don't want it discussed? Don't bring it up. It really is just that simple.

Edit: BTW, Aelwynn, I don't say anything specifically to rile you up. I just know you can handle it, is all. I don't cut anyone any slack around here. ;)

[Aelwynn]

Athena, I swear you're slowly killing me. LOL

I don't view just drinking as setting a bad example. I view a few other things as well. Like drugs, sex before she's at least 40 (hehe), and some other stuff. Just that this thread is about drinking, so I was writing about drinking.

I explained why it sets a bad example. I can't tell my kids no don't do this, when I'm doing it. I don't like double standards. I'm not going to jump off a bridge and then tell my child not to do it. Just doesn't work like that in this house.

[quote]Mid-teens? Why wait that long? Do you think educating your kids will encourage them, or something? If a kid asks me a question, I give them a straight answer. No sense in lying, but there's even less sense in keeping them in the dark. If they're curious and aware enough to ask, it's time to give them an answer. If you'd rather wait until YOU feel comfortable, that's your choice as a parent. But it doesn't sound like a particularly responsible policy, to me.[quote]

I was going to wait until at least 8, was praying for midteens (like 12), before I said anything to them. I want them to understand exactly why we forbid it. I also want to make sure they completely agree, or slightly agree. I don't want to enforce my personal beliefs on my children. I want them to be able to choose for themselves. But that doesn't mean I'm going to let them drink just because they disagree, they can drink when they are 21.

No sense in lying, but there's even less sense in keeping them in the dark. If they're curious and aware enough to ask, it's time to give them an answer. If you'd rather wait until YOU feel comfortable, that's your choice as a parent. But it doesn't sound like a particularly responsible policy, to me.

I'm not LYING to my kids about why. Actually I was talking to a few girls in chat earlier. It's best to give them age appropriate answers when they start asking questions. However, I won't delve into the major reasonings behind our rules until they are old enough to understand.

You should read one or two of the other posts after that original one you quoted. You missed out on a bunch. I'm going to have the talk about this stuff when the time comes. Until they actually can comprehend WHY, I don't delve into it too deeply.

I don't think them knowing about it will make them do it more. Actually, I'm pretty sure once they know about what it tastes like (see previous post) and why we don't agree with it - they will completely understand. This is the same method our parents used. (Minus the talking to them at 5! Eeps! Still seems a little young to me!)

Some of this is based on the fact that in our church our kids aren't baptised until they are the age 8. Until then they are informed of the reasonings behind all of these things, and are taught what to adhere to as a member of the church. Until AT LEAST 8, I want her to have her own opinion about the church and figure out if it's right for her. But still no drinking till she's 21!

Honestly just her getting ready to be baptised will prepare her enough for all the smaller questions about drinking and some other things. After that, at like 12, she'll get a bigger talk about it. This is just how things work in our family, and we won't be changing it.

Since you're not a member of our immediate family and church, this honestly must seem a little odd. But since it is my family, I can say without a doubt that this will most likely never change in my household.

I do feel completely comfortable teaching my children about the rights and wrongs of life. However, I DON'T feel comfortable being FORCED by SOCIETY to teach my children the rights and wrongs of life. That's why I avoid situations where I don't need to have my own parenting questioned by my own kids. (Though they will learn to hate me later I know)

Like for example: I walk into Safeway and my daughter asks me why I tell her she's not allowed to drink but that there are other adults over there drinking outta of sip cups. I just don't feel that I should be put in THAT uncomfortable position just because some adults want to taste test Bud Light. When she's of a decent age and completely understands all of the "whys" behind it all, I'll take her into those type of situations knowing that she can handle all those tough answers (I still might avoid those places, I don't like seeing people drink anyways).

Bullshit. No one gets drunk off fumes. That's biologically impossible.

"Alcohol evaporates at room temperature SO if you were inhaling it through the nose you might be able to get small amounts directly into the blood stream which would equal larger amounts in the stomach. Just a theory though, usually drank the alcohol before I had a chance to sniff it long enough..." I believe that they used a hooka/bong, but anyways...I don't particularly believe him especially since I am a pretty good drinker myself.

If I remember correctly he has a rare disorder where he can smell things more effectively than a dog. Weird, I know. I don't actually bring this up with him a lot, it's an odd subject. But he can smell nail polish from across an entire Walmart and knows someone is using it. It's really damn creepy. Anyways, I assumed that's why he's pretty much a freak when he inhales anything.

[Dakota Valkyrie]

Originally Posted by Aelwynn

I can't tell my kids no don't do this, when I'm doing it. I don't like double standards. I'm not going to jump off a bridge and then tell my child not to do it. Just doesn't work like that in this house.

Must suck not being able to drive the car. :) As an adult, i enjoyed lots of perks that my kids could not.

How do you explain that other mom's buy the cocoa-crappy inflated price whatever that you don't buy but they see? Just as you would explain sugar no-no or cost issues, you explain the alcohol issue.

I get what your saying, I really do. It's just that the picture gets very muddled once kids get in school and the foundation has to be laid early. Trust me, kindergartners have parents that are not responsible and your kids will hear all about it. The more ammo you start giving them at 4, the better they will handle it.

When asked by my kids why other kids (or families) could do something, my standard reply did not involve the dreaded jumping off the bridge. If they were young "Because I'm the mommy" was all they got. But later, after explaining our philosophy and still being questioned, I usually resorted to "Jeffery Dahmer ate people. We should do that too?" Worked like a charm.

[Athena]

I think it's interesting that you've taken such a "Do as I do" approach to parenting. It's respectable, and will prove very effective, assuming you keep them involved in church and maybe get them into soccer or something. "The wrong crowd" is the single biggest threat to parents. So, while you can handle things impeccably inside the home, if they have some bad friends, that can all be trashed. I'd hate to see you not drink for years on end all for nothing. :D

Of course, if you apply this logic (I won't do anything I tell my kids not to do) to everything...What do you say to them about driving? :p

I guess I just don't understand all the "age-appropriate" stuff as far as conversations with kids. If I asked my parents a question, they'd lay it out for me. If I didn't get it, they'd just try it again the next time I asked. Nothing was ever dumbed down for me, which ensured that I progressed at the fastest rate possible, rather than at the rate my parents might think I was capable of. Little kids are always being underestimated. In many ways, I was treated like a little adult.

Of course, different strokes and all that.

[Aelwynn]

LOL! The driving thing was really comical to me. Honestly, this is going to surprise you both, I really DON'T drive anymore. LOLOL Pure happenstance. I forgot to renew my license about 3 years ago when we moved to WA (I still had a NJ license) and just didn't take the test again.

Since we're on the verge of moving again, I have been putting taking the test till after we move so that it's actually current and I don't need to take the same damn written test twice. Honestly, we've been getting new orders every other month for the past 3 years. We move at the drop of a dime, so when we move again I'll get it renewed...otherwise, way less stressful.

It does actually seriously suck major ass not being able to drive sometimes. Other times I am actually happy berating my hubby's driving. I think everyone out here needs to learn to drive honestly. It'd kill me driving in the rain on I-5 and everyone was going 20mph. I'd have a mega-fit. It's also nice when all of us pack into the car (or suv depending on which kids we take) and having that extra family time.

But I only do the "do as I do" approach to dangerous/controversial things like drugs and alcohol. Things that actually make sense. Things like driving, nah...she can drive when she's old enough.

My kids do drink soda, surprisingly enough. We also aren't an organic eating only family. We're a basic normal family...if you could even begin to define "normal". So honestly, it comes down to four major things for us: drugs, smoking, alcohol, and sex. Otherwise everything else is cause "I said so! Nyah!"

The "wrong crowd" scares the bejesus outta me. I WAS the part of the wrong crowd. I don't want to see a repeat in my kids. I guess every parent is like that though. Our church does have weekly activites for the kids (cooking etc). Basketball, soccer, and even volleyball are tournament events for the kids as well.

I can't exactly tell my eldest where a penis goes. LOL That'd be just daft on my part, especially at this age. It'd bring up even MORE questions. Usually when I get the "why" questions now, they are just for her to get me to talk about something and irritate the daylights outta me. After I answer enough "why"s she usually skips onto something - like screaming mommy for hours on end. She's at that age where she just asks to ask, but doesn't really care for the answer.

When she's older, I'll explain. For now, she just doesn't care. She just wants to play and fool around. If she asked me if the world was going to end tomorrow, I'd tell her no. If she kept asking me, I'd probably end up with "because I said so". She doesn't really care for the answer honestly. LOL

But in the end, you can only do the "do as I do" for certain things. Other things, not so much. Like driving, I guess. Eating veggies, I make sure I eat mine too so that she knows. But for most things that I can do too, I try to do them.

(Does anyone else hate the word why now that they've had kids? I HATE that word)

[polis]

Aelwynn, I think it's cool that you don't drink in front of your kids. My parents didn't drink either. Since they never showed interest in it, I wasn't interested in it, but my brother was..and my happy go lucky uncle gave my brother a sip of beer and my brother's curiosity was killed. :) My parents didn't hide alcohol from us, but were open about it and told us why they didn't drink.

There are actual parents that take their kids into bars down here, stroller and all, since smoking isn't allowed anymore. Also living by the border, where drinking is available from 11 years old (although the legal drinking age is 18) a lot of my friends find drinking to be something that every adult does, and it's acceptable to have more than 4 drinks in one sitting.

Personally I will drink at most, twice a month. However, I see no problem with wine tasting, it's not a chug-a-lug at the grocery store. Just let your kids know, that sometimes people like to drink and that it's okay if done responsibly.

:cocktail: