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Thread: 8 Year Old Kills Father, Father's Friend

  1. #61
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    I remember this case even though I wasn't around here when it happened. I was reading through the articles and posts and this quote jumped out at me...

    For Brennen Overson, who knew the victims and the boy, each time the media flooded the 4,000-person community, it reminded the town of the shocking crimes.

    "We don't want to forget Vince or (the boy)," Overson said. "We don't want to forget Tim, either, but that's just a bad memory. Nobody needs to remember that."
    What's a bad memory? Tim Romans or his murder? It just seems like an odd statement especially considering the charges related to the murder of the father were dropped and the boy only pled on the charges of negligent homicide for Tim Roman. There is a LOT that isn't being told here. Someone was abusing this boy... but I'm not sure who. I don't like a 39 year old boarder around small kids either. There has to be something more to this story... especially since they are hoping he will be out of treatment before he's 18 and if he isn't they consider it a failure (or at least not successful).
    I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But much as I want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking.

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  2. #62
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    No one wants to believe this child is psycho, but it happens
    I don't feel this kid was abused, everyone wants to believe that, but the lawyers know what happened if that was the case they would have used it, I think the mother would have found out by now, but abuse by the adults has never been hinted at
    I also feel they would be more positive about the therapy working out if he had done this because of abuse and not because he's a natural born killer, I'd start looking around that farm for dead animals.
    remember this one

    http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...er.html?cat=49

    Police say the 11-year-old boy shot the woman who was soon to be his stepmother at around 8 a.m. Friday morning, then boarded his school bus and went to school as if nothing had happened. The body was discovered by Kenzie Houk's 4-year-old daughter later that morning.

    http://www.dreamindemon.com/forums/s...ht=Kenzie+Houk
    Last edited by biteme; January 15th, 2010 at 01:11 PM.

  3. #63
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    To me.. his guilt is still up in the air. His "confession" video doesn't do it for me.. nor does the handpicked evidence that was released. This kid could be a psychopath in the making.... but I find it hard to believe that this kid's homelife was one of roses and happiness. Abuse doesn't have to be physical.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja0980 View Post
    To me.. his guilt is still up in the air. His "confession" video doesn't do it for me.. nor does the handpicked evidence that was released. This kid could be a psychopath in the making.... but I find it hard to believe that this kid's homelife was one of roses and happiness. Abuse doesn't have to be physical.
    The other kid killed out of jealousy, maybe this one had his Xbox taken away
    I can't believe if there was abuse the defense didn't use it
    No one wants to believe the bad seed, but I don't think serial killers are made, I think they are born
    You read on here about a lot of abused kids that should shoot their parents, but they don't, it takes a special 8 year old to shoot and kill his father and another man coming home from work, and a 22cal isn't going to be sudden death unless you hit the head or vital organ. There is more to this story, but I don't think it would benefit the kid.
    Last edited by biteme; January 15th, 2010 at 03:27 PM.

  5. #65
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    I grew up in a small rural town pretty close to St. Johns. I started learning how to fire a gun when I was 4. Lol Yea, probably a little young, but the town was primarily ranchers, farmers, & mine workers. We were taught from a pretty young age about life and death and that we hunt for food. So learning how to shoot and even receiving a .22 caliber rifle for Christmas (as an 8 y/o) wasn’t out of the norm when I lived in the booneys. LOL

    For myself, I know I became pretty desensitized to animals as a kid. Shoot I gutted my first elk at the age of 11! LOL Can you imagine? Yea, I was your typical red-neck hunter’s kid. Used to go bird & rabbit hunting w/ my dad, sometimes we’d go hunting at night and one of us would drive and the other would ride in the bed, operate the spotlight and hunt some animals. More times than not, my dad would be drinking HEAVILY, but I didn’t know any different.

    I remember reading something that there were rumors going around that this kid was beaten by his dad (that he shot) but his step-mom as well. I tried to find the article, but no luck.  If memory serves the dad would tell the step-mom to beat him when he misbehaved or didn’t complete his homework. It’s very possible that there was other abuse going on – perhaps classic domestic violence. Perhaps the boy felt there was no other alternative than to shoot his dad.

    I don’t think he’s a sociopath; he did call 911 and didn’t try to hide what he did. He probably realized WHAT he did and had instant regret, even though he may have felt some relief (deep down).

    As a child, my dad would go on a drinking binge and during his tirades would beat my mom senseless. Days like that, I would pray that he would just fall over and die. We had NUMEROUS weapons throughout the house (loaded w/ no safety engaged) and I never considered shooting my dad. I was too darned afraid of him. Don’t get me wrong, I love my dad, I hated the D/V behavior. He came from a generation where beating your wife was acceptable.

    When my mom & dad finally separated it was such a relief, that when I saw my mom crying because she missed my dad and didn’t want a divorce I started screaming at her and asked if she liked getting her ass kicked. I was 13/14, I believe. Pretty scary stuff…it definitely affects a child and their development. It defines what kind of relationships they will seek out, HOW they maintain relationships – all that good stuff.

    So yea, I can totally see a young child feeling helpless & scared if there was a lot of chaos going on at home. Perhaps he got in trouble @ school or did poorly on a test and didn’t want to get beaten again. It’s a definite possibility. Too bad the pre-sentence report won’t be public record, I’m sure there’s some details in there that would shed some light on his state of mind, etc….

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  7. #66
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    I read on the tallying of 1000 spankings this child was keeping track of. Curious, if these spankings were more like abuse. I bet the mother could answer that one. And the relative did say they were "to hard on the boy". Something was def. going on a home. I heard the child responding on the interview and thought he didn't sound upset but withdrawn and very young.

    Just a thought on this shooting. The child said at one point that he shot his father 'cause he was suffering. What if the roommate and father had an altercation and they shot one another, son finds father injured, see's him suffering and shoots dad, maybe even on his urging. Roommate had 6 shots, father 5. Over kill for sure.

    Not sure what to think at this point. One thing for certain, along with the two people killed, this childs life is over too.
    Report child Abuse 1-800-4-A-CHILD * Missing and Exploited 1-800-THE-LOST

  8. #67
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    the more i read the more i feel there is something wrong with this child
    Dam! Even the ex wife stood up for the father

    Bloomfield said she could make no excuses for her son or his actions and that he will have to live with knowing how many people he has hurt.


    http://www.abc15.com/content/news/no...UbWpJw6-Q.cspx
    Last edited by biteme; January 15th, 2010 at 04:03 PM.

  9. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by silvahalo68 View Post


    I read on the tallying of 1000 spankings this child was keeping track of. Curious, if these spankings were more like abuse. I bet the mother could answer that one. And the relative did say they were "to hard on the boy". Something was def. going on a home. I heard the child responding on the interview and thought he didn't sound upset but withdrawn and very young.

    Just a thought on this shooting. The child said at one point that he shot his father 'cause he was suffering. What if the roommate and father had an altercation and they shot one another, son finds father injured, see's him suffering and shoots dad, maybe even on his urging. Roommate had 6 shots, father 5. Over kill for sure.

    Not sure what to think at this point. One thing for certain, along with the two people killed, this childs life is over too.
    http://www.abc15.com/content/news/no...UbWpJw6-Q.cspx

    A motive never has been made clear, although the boy told investigators he kept a tally of spankings. His attorney, Ron Wood, suggested Thursday that the boy reacted to psychological and emotional abuse but said he was not physically hurt. Whiting said he wouldn't classify whatever went on in the boy's home as abuse.

  10. #69
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    I guess we can never really know for sure if the punishment was abusive or not, short of the mother saying something or other witness. Mother sounds incapable of much anything that would shed some light on this. I hardly take the word of the attorney as fact. Something was going on or this child is out of his mind. One doesn't just do something like this for nothing. I'm afraid we might never know what the reason was.
    Report child Abuse 1-800-4-A-CHILD * Missing and Exploited 1-800-THE-LOST

  11. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saffron View Post
    I remember this case even though I wasn't around here when it happened. I was reading through the articles and posts and this quote jumped out at me...



    What's a bad memory? Tim Romans or his murder? It just seems like an odd statement especially considering the charges related to the murder of the father were dropped and the boy only pled on the charges of negligent homicide for Tim Roman. There is a LOT that isn't being told here. Someone was abusing this boy... but I'm not sure who. I don't like a 39 year old boarder around small kids either. There has to be something more to this story... especially since they are hoping he will be out of treatment before he's 18 and if he isn't they consider it a failure (or at least not successful).

    That is the most bizarre statement! That does lead you to believe there was more going on than is being released. Even his attorney's comments are weird, concedeing there was abuse but nothing physical. Huh? So was he being abused at the hands of someone else? I don't get it.

    Sounds like they are optimistic about his treatment - especially since he was released into his mom's custody. When this first broke I remember they put him into treatment immediately.

    Wow...i'm still confused over that statement. lol

  12. #71
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    anybody know the relationship of these 2 men? did they work together? hunt together? go to church with each other? how did they know each other?

    TIA!
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  13. #72
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    A St. John's boy who acknowledged fatally shooting his father's friend pleaded guilty Friday to a trio of probation violations.

    Prosecutors offered to drop the majority of alleged violations against the 12-year-old boy if he acknowledged twice leaving a residential treatment center without permission and destroying a wall clock.

    A spokeswoman for the Apache County Superior Court says the boy pleaded guilty to three probation violations, and 12 other allegations were dismissed.
    [...]

    Sentencing on the probation violations is set for Aug. 10.
    http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/region...ion-violations
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  15. #73
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    I read through the whole thread and it made me remember a story a read in a book about killer kids, it had no names because of the child's age. A 3 yo was watching daddy beat mommy once again, daddy left his loaded gun on a coffee table and the boys picked it up, one shot killed the father. When he was questioned by PD he told them that his daddy hit his mommy and he shot him and that he'd do it again if his daddy kept hitting mommy. Obviously there were no charges against the boy.

    The age of accountablitity for crime is 7, at age 14 a child can be tried as an adult for any crime they commit, the more heinous the crime the younger they can be when tried as an adult, check Eric Smith of Savona, NY, he was 12 at the time. Being that the boy was 8 he could have been tried for the crime in juvenile court, and by the update he should have been.

    I started shooting at age 4, my father was a gun dealer. Guns were always in their bedroom loaded, I also live way out in the middle of nowhere. Had to call the State Police (we have no local) to report my ex husband on my property, drunk, trying to get in the house to get my son, it took the PD 1 1/2 hours to show up, that was the only time in my life I have pointed a gun at a person. I have owned guns since I was of age and my sons started shooting at 5 but I do keep my guns safe and secure, just because I didn't touch them as a child doesn't mean that my boys wouldn't.

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  17. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mare View Post
    I will keep an eye on this one. I wonder what prompted it?
    I still can't get over premeditated. Planned? What kind of 8 year olds are these?
    @Mare
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  18. #75
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    n Arizona boy who was 8 years old when he killed his father and a family friend is on the verge of living a more normal life after showing significant improvement in recent months in his court-ordered treatment.

    The boy’s nearly three-year stay at a Phoenix-area residential treatment center had been rocky, with prosecutors alleging earlier this year that he violated probation by issuing death threats, damaging property at the facility and assaulting others. But the past eight months have been a different story as the boy came under the care of a new psychologist and learned to verbalize his feelings.

    The probation violations brought him back to court on Thursday where Superior Court Judge Monica Stauffer said moving him to a group home would help him build on improvements he’s made since being charged in the 2008 double homicide.
    [...]

    Earlier this year, the boy acknowledged twice leaving the treatment center without permission and smashing a wall clock, and the rest of the alleged probation violations were dropped.

    After hearing about how much the boy enjoyed school and excelled at schoolwork, the relationship he’s formed with psychologist Dr. Alan Lewis and the desire from his family to see him more often, Stauffer pledged not to fail the boy by making a quick decision on where he should be placed. She instructed probation officials to look further into two Phoenix-area group homes to see if they’d accept the boy, would allow for day-long visits with his family and possibly let Lewis continue counseling him.

    “I want you to know I’m very proud of you,” she told the boy, who was seated beside his mother in court. “I’m proud of the progress you’ve made and want you to continue to have an attitude of making the changes you need and establishing positive relationships.”

    Attorneys in the case were struggling to find a suitable placement for the boy since the Youth Development Institute where he’s being treated indicated it didn’t want to keep him long-term. A school for troubled boys rejected the boy’s application, foster care agencies said they had no room for him and experts said placing him in the state Department of Juvenile Corrections would put him on a path to becoming a sociopath.

    Lewis testified at a September hearing that he considers the boy to be proactive aggressive but said that behavior is typical for a boy that age and does not see him as a risk.

    Ann Mastergeorge, a developmental psychologist who studies risk and resilience in young children, said she didn’t believe placing him in a residential treatment was the best option to begin with and would rather see him placed with a family than a group home at this point.

    “Developmentally what would have been best for this boy would have been to be in treatment but living in a family and going to school, having friendships,” said Mastergeorge, a University of Arizona professor who is not connected to the case.

    “It’s an isolated incident that was very traumatic and obviously very serious. But to remove him from everyone he knows is another abandonment that creates more loss and more disassociation.”

    Romans’ family has said they prefer the boy to be in jail, while the boy’s family said they would like to care for him in their own homes but recognize that he’s in need of more therapy and that it would be difficult to have him remain anonymous among a larger community or classmates.

    “If you don’t have that encouragement and someone believing in you and loving you, then what do you have to work toward?” said his grandmother, Liz Castillo. “My concern is that no matter where he goes, that whatever happens or where he is placed that something be implemented to have family be able to spend time with him.”

    Beth Rosenberg, the director of child welfare and juvenile justice for the Children’s Action Alliance in Arizona, is familiar with the case but not involved in it. She said keeping him in a facility that limits time with family and a larger community would not be in his best interest.

    “You don’t want to let him out at 18 and say ‘go for it,’ ” she said. “He needs to transition back to the community at some point and have the support he needs to be successful as an adult.”

    The boy’s attorney, Ron Wood, said he believes that his client has a chance of becoming a “very exceptional young man” if he can get help dealing with the root cause of the crime and the fallout.

    The boy has a more limited vision for his future that, for right now, includes wanting to spend his 13th birthday at the residential treatment center on Dec. 29, when he will be rewarded for his schoolwork, behavior and progress with counseling.

    Stauffer ordered him send back to the treatment center until the next hearing in January, saying “happy early birthday.”
    http://www.mohavedailynews.com/artic...c183467391.txt
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