8 Year Old Kills Father, Father's Friend

[Mare]

FLAGSTAFF, Ariz. – An 8-year-old boy is charged with murder in the shooting of his father and another man in a rural community in eastern Arizona, authorities said Friday.
The boy was charged with two counts of premeditated murder in the death of his father, 29-year-old Vincent Romero, and 39-year-old Timothy Romans, St. Johns Police Chief Roy Melnick said.
Police arrived at the home within minutes of the shooting Wednesday, Melnick said. They found one victim just outside the front door and the other dead in an upstairs room.
The boy, who prosecutors say had never been in trouble before, initially denied involvement in the shooting but later confessed, Melnick said.
Police have not said what they think the boy's motive was.
Defense attorney Benjamin Brewer argued Friday that police overreached in questioning the boy without representation from a parent or attorney and did not advise him of his rights.
"They became very accusing early on in the interview," Brewer said. "Two officers with guns at their side, it's very scary for anybody, for sure an 8-year-old kid."
A judge determined at a hearing Friday that there was probable cause to believe the boy committed the killings. He is being held at the Apache County juvenile detention center.
St. Johns is a community of about 4,000 people about 170 miles northeast of Phoenix.


Premeditated? At 8 years old?

[Unamused Cat]

I might buy an 8-year-old accidently killing one person, but two? It's downright murder.

[Mare]

I will keep an eye on this one. I wonder what prompted it?
I still can't get over premeditated. Planned? What kind of 8 year olds are these?

[Rhoni]

'Precedent-setting' case as child is accused of shooting father, other man

FLAGSTAFF, Ariz. – An 8-year-old boy is charged with murder in the shooting of his father and another man in a rural community in eastern Arizona, authorities said Friday.

Yes you read that right no it is not a typo the boy is 8 years old!!

The boy was charged with two counts of premeditated murder in the death of his father, 29-year-old Vincent Romero, and 39-year-old Timothy Romans, St. Johns Police Chief Roy Melnick said.

Police arrived at the home within minutes of the shooting Wednesday, Melnick said. They found one victim just outside the front door and the other dead in an upstairs room.

The boy, who prosecutors say had never been in trouble before, initially denied involvement in the shooting but later confessed, Melnick said.

Police have not said what they think the boy's motive was.

Defense attorney Benjamin Brewer argued Friday that police overreached in questioning the boy without representation from a parent or attorney and did not advise him of his rights.

"They became very accusing early on in the interview," Brewer said. "Two officers with guns at their side, it's very scary for anybody, for sure an 8-year-old kid."

Obviously the chid is not afraid of guns but I will try to hold my judgement until more is known...

A judge determined at a hearing Friday that there was probable cause to believe the boy committed the killings. He is being held at the Apache County juvenile detention center.

St. Johns is a community of about 4,000 people about 170 miles northeast of Phoenix.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27600105/


What could make an 8 year old kill 2 people? Wow this one kinda blows my mind..

[blue_zombie]

I found this link this morning.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/11/08/....ap/index.html


Quote:
It's a crime that police officers in a small eastern Arizona community can hardly fathom yet have to deal with: an 8-year-old charged in the fatal shootings of his father and another man.

"Who would think an 8-year-old kid could kill two adults?" St. Johns Police Chief Roy Melnick said Friday.

Personally, I think there are a lot of reasons that an 8 y/o child would want to kill his father and another man renting out a room in the family house. Gee, let's think about it, what would prompt an 8 y/o to turn to murder????


Quote:
"They became very accusing early on in the interview," Brewer said. "Two officers with guns at their side, it's very scary for anybody, for sure an 8-year-old kid."

A judge has ordered a psychological evaluation of the child, who was being held at the Apache County juvenile detention center.

Prosecutors aren't sure where the case is headed, Carlyon said.

"There's a ton of factors to be considered and weighed, including the juvenile's age," he said. "The counterbalance against that, the acts that he apparently committed."

Carlyon said the boy had no record of complaints with Arizona Child Protective Services.

"He had no record of any kind, not even a disciplinary record at school," he said. "He has never been in trouble before."

City Manager Greg Martin said the community was "saddened" and "shocked."

"Not something that happens very often and hopefully never happens again," he said. "It's been on their minds ever since it happened."

FBI statistics show instances of children younger than 11 committing homicides are very rare. According to recent FBI supplementary homicide reports, there were at least three such cases each year in 2003, 2004 and 2005; there were at least 15 in 2002. More recent statistics weren't available, nor were details of the cases.


Something else was going on here, but given the child's age, I wonder if we'll ever know what happened.

[Pete Bondurant]

Very impressive. I was eleven before I killed anyone.

[Dakota Valkyrie]

Mare caught this over in Reality Bites, too.
http://www.dreamindemon.com/forums/s...ead.php?t=9527

I don't know if this actually falls into the "mass murderer" category. How many do you have to kill for that designation?

It will be interesting to see how it all unfolds. I agree there is got to be more - wonder it we will find out.

[Jaded]

Mare caught this over in Reality Bites, too.
http://www.dreamindemon.com/forums/s...ead.php?t=9527

I don't know if this actually falls into the "mass murderer" category. How many do you have to kill for that designation?

It will be interesting to see how it all unfolds. I agree there is got to be more - wonder it we will find out.

All posts have been merged. Popular story!!

[Unamused Cat]

A man who police believe was shot and killed by his 8-year-old son had consulted a Roman Catholic priest about whether the boy should handle guns and had taught him how to use a rifle, the clergyman said Saturday.

The father, Vincent Romero, 29, was from a family of avid hunters and wanted to make sure the boy wasn't afraid of guns, said the Very Rev. John Paul Sauter of St. Johns Catholic Church. The boy's stepmother had suggested he have a BB gun, the priest said.

Romero taught his son how to use a rifle to kill prairie dogs, Sauter said. Police say the boy used a .22-caliber rifle Wednesday to kill his father and another man, Timothy Romans, 39, of San Carlos.

The priest did not say how he advised the couple but said Saturday that the boy "was just too young."

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6102254.html

[Castille]

I have a young friend who asked for a crow bar for Christmas when he was 9 or 10. His parents actually got it for him without ever asking why he would want such a thing, and then acted surprised when he immediately tried to beat his dad in the head with it upon recieving it. No one else was surprised, given their relationship, however. It'd be interesting to know if the people more intimately familiar with this family and kid were really that shocked.

[Silvahalo]

The fact that an 8 yr. old has killed 2 people even more so one was his father, is disheartening and very tragic. I feel completely horrified that a child so young could put together the mind frame to kill 2 people, adults for that matter and do it successfully.

The bigger question in my mind is WHY? why would a child of 8 years feel the need to kill? this is a child for Godsake...we need to understand what happened to this boy that his life would come to an end in the very sense that makes life worth living.

I am of the belief that we as a society have to be responsible for our childrens well being...imagine that. We give life to these children...put them through the, "howdy-do-dee" this is life routine and hope they make it. A number far to large for me to quote, are subject to unimaginable horrors then are expected like wild weeds in the wind to figure out life...

If a child is subject to unspeakable violence, sexual, physical and emotional abuse...what are you going to get? I have not read about any evidence that this child was subject to any such abuse I noted, but I'd be ready to wager he is a victim of some type of abuse that caused the heinous crime...the chances that he is a true psycho-path is very improbable. An 8yr. old's psyche is not capable of plotting to murder...premeditate is a ludicrous thought.

I can't wait to read more facts and findings on this case as they come about.

[Sister Iroz]

FLAGSTAFF, Arizona (AP) -- A man who police believe was shot and killed by his 8-year-old son had consulted a Roman Catholic priest about whether the boy should have a gun and had taught him how to use firearms, the clergyman said.

The Very Rev. John Paul Sauter said Vincent Romero consulted him on whether his son should have a gun.

The Very Rev. John Paul Sauter said the man, Vincent Romero, 29, wanted his son to learn how to hunt, but the boy's stepmother, Tiffany, suggested that he have a BB gun.

Police say the boy used a 22.-caliber rifle Wednesday to kill his father and another man, Timothy Romans, 39, of San Carlos.

Romero was an avid hunter who taught his son how to use a rifle to kill prairie dogs, said Sauter, of St. Johns Catholic Church.

"He wanted to make sure the kid wasn't afraid of guns, knew how to handle it," the priest said. "He was just too young. ... That child, I don't think he knows what he did, and it was brutal."

I think 8 yrs. old to young to use guns and hunt.

[blue_zombie]

I don't necessarily think 8 y/o is too young to use a gun. However, if depends on the maturity and build of the child. Do I think he should have been using a rifle or shotgun? No. But a BB gun probably would have been acceptable. I don't think just because the father taught the son how to use a gun that's why the kid went crazy and killed his father and the other man. I have taught my daughter how to use a gun, and I am 100% certain she isn't going to murder me with it. There is more going on here than we know about.

We need to find out WHY this kid decided to kill his stepfather AND another man LIVING IN THE SAME HOUSE. Seriously, he was probably being abused or mistreated in some way. I don't think that 8 y/o children go crazy for no reason. IMO

[Peeperann]

Wow, don't know how I feel about this one. I do think 8 is too young. My ex hunted all the time. Our oldest wanted to hunt too, but in most states you have to be 12 and go thru a state approved hunting and rifle class.

Poor kid, I too wonder why he killed them an what else was going on........

[tankgirl]

I don't know, I think there is something fishy about this story. My son is 8 also-in a couple of months he'll be 9. I would never allow a gun in his hands - especially for the fear that he would shoot his sister. Anyway, did it ever cross anybody's mind WHY the 8 year old kid shot his father and another guy. They were found in 2 different rooms of the house. Is it possible there was some kind of abuse going on??? Yes, I would be very concerned of any child with a loaded gun, however how many 8 year olds do you know that plan to kill someone???

[wild_angel_1980]

OK so he taught his 8 year old to shoot. I learned very young as well. My BIG question is why were the guns not in a secure location? Why was there not a lock on these firearms?

[LiltingBanshee]

I wonder if he actually didn't do it, but was coerced into confessing during the police interview. That sort of thing has happened before.

It just seems unimaginable that an 8 year old would do that, but, who knows.

[Envy]

why does this case sound familiar?

[brokenandtwisted]

why does this case sound familiar?

http://www.dreamindemon.com/forums/s...ad.php?p=85043

[witzah]

US investigators believe an eight year old boy who shot his dad and another man dead could have been the victim of abuse.

Vincent Romero,29, and Timothy Romas,39, were blasted at close range with a .22 hunting rifle by the youngster.

Police said the boy, who has not been named, did not shoot on the spur of the moment.

Instead they believe he walked through the house picking out his two targets.

. . .

Police chief Roy Melnick said his officers are looking into whether the boy might have been abused.

'I'm not accusing anybody of anything at this point,' he said.
'But we're certainly going to look at the abuse part of this. He's eight years old. He just doesn't decide one day that he's going to shoot his father and shoot his father's friend for no reason. Something led up to this.' The boy lived in a rural community with his father who had consulted a local Catholic priest about teaching his son to shoot.

. . .

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worl...er-abused.html

[wild_angel_1980]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/11/us...ld.html?ref=us

An 8-year-old Arizona boy charged with premeditated murder in the deaths of his father and another man shot each victim at least four times with a .22-caliber rifle, methodically stopping and reloading as he killed them, prosecutors said Monday.

Although investigators initially said they thought the boy might have suffered severe physical or sexual trauma, they have found no evidence of abuse, said Roy Melnick, the police chief in St. Johns, Ariz., where the shootings occurred. Psychologists say such abuse is often a factor in the extremely rare instances in which a small child murders a parent.

Mr. Carlyon said the boy told the police that he had been spanked at home the night before because he was having trouble at school.

Prosecutors said the murder weapon was a single-action .22-caliber hunting rifle that requires reloading before each shot. “He had to eject the shell from the rifle and put in a new shell each time he fired,” Mr. Carlyon said.

Mr. Romero was the first victim, investigators said, shot in the head and chest as he walked up a staircase inside the house shortly after 5 p.m.

This kid shot them EACH at least 4 times a piece... Let's see who gets blamed...

A. TV
B. Video Games
C. Comic Books
D. Gun manufacturers
E. Ammunition Manufacturers
F. the dead father
G. the dead roommate
H. the mother
I. the kid that did the shooting

[DarkPrincess]

This case still doesn't sit right with me. It always bothers me when police question a minor without the presence of a lawyer or guardian.

[ChrisseyP]

Can I toss out a theory?

I'm thinking the kid did it more as an I'll-show-you type of thing. The news article said dad had spanked him the night before for getting in trouble at school. I really don't think an 8-year-old child has any concept of the finality of death. They see people come back all the time on TV (no, I'm not using TV as an excuse - just a very immature child). So, maybe he's thinking since dad spanked him, he'd get back and just shoot him.

The second man probably ran in to try to stop what was happening and got shot for his trouble.

If the boy did do this, he needs to be punished. I don't know what that would be though.

Just my $.02

[crickett]

Juvie until 21 with intensive psychological testing and counseling

[crickett]

Very impressive. I was eleven before I killed anyone.

I really admire your self control in waiting so long before offing anyone....didn't ya just want to by the time you were 9?

[Jaded]

Video of interview with child....

New tapes show the police interview of the 8-year-old boy accused of murdering his father and another man.

The interview was recorded in St. Johns shortly after the two men were found dead.

Only 12 minutes of the much longer police interview tape was released.

http://www.azfamily.com/news/homepag...18c702709.html

[Lynntoast]

Video of interview with child....

http://www.azfamily.com/news/homepag...18c702709.html

Chilling. He sounds just like a normal little kid. If he did this, he sure had is story all planned out. wow

[Unamused Cat]

That's one cool lil' customer. Anyone know the time span between the murders?

[Ninja0980]

Still sceptical about this one. A child will tell adults what he thinks they want to hear and the fact he was questioned without a guardian or parent present?! I'm still not bought on him doing it but that's me. More evidence could come out before to change my mind but if the confessions is all they have to go on... well, that will send up a big flag for me.

[Athena]

Kid could have been a sociopath. There are plenty of stories about kids his age killing people "just to see what it was like". Not usually adults, but then again, most little kids don't have the means to kill adults like this kid did. It'll be interesting to see how this one plays out.