Gays In The Military

[Athena]

Surfing around, I came across this particularly amusing article about the recent hearing held by the the House Armed Services personnel subcommittee on the topic of the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy that prevents gays from openly serving in the military.

Now, I'm from Seattle, so the very idea that gays serving in the military could be problematic enough to prevent them from doing so is completely foreign to me. That being said, I'm aware that there's a supply of ex-soldiers and military wives here at D'D who may have some insight that I've yet to consider.

So? What say you? Is there reason to keep gays from openly serving in the military?

[Pirelli Jones]

So? What say you? Is there reason to keep gays from openly serving in the military?

I typed out a longer reply but the etherealnet ate it, basically it would be demoralizing to straight Johnny Farmboy from Podunkville if Pvt. Light Loafers from Vancouver was to walk as far, dig as much, shoot as straight, etc. Its not about excluding gays its about keeping hetero empowerment at its highest readiness.

[Athena]

An interesting perspective. Sounds entirely reasonable.

So, if that's the case, is there a point when a need for troops outweighs the military's interest in keeping "morale" among straights as high as possible?

[Dakota Valkyrie]

While I understand the "Johnny Farmboy", I don't think he's any more prone than "Bobby Bigcity" to suffer from that malady.

Since June 12th, for the first time since the war started, my family does not have a member in a combat zone. That is temporary until September when my hubby leaves for 4 months. Air Force, Marines, Navy, and Army - 11 current active and 8 retired in my family, siblings, and their children. (Just got a new one when daughter married into the Air Force on July 5th.)

There are still bigots and racists in society yet they function side-by-side with persons of color everyday in the military. Women hold high ranking positions and continue to make inroads into the military culture. Both these have happened despite dire warnings of failure and other consequences from "Ignorant Irvings" . As acceptance of homosexuals increases, the "Harry Homophobes" will adjust.

Not saying there won't be growing pains, just saying it's a process that is going to happen.

A good military member follows a set of rules that are blind to many things. If you are not hard-working, loyal, trustworthy, and a host of other attributes that have nothing to do with anything beyond personal character, you will not be in the military long and the military will not want you.

[The Diabolical Mr. Lieman]

I typed out a longer reply but the etherealnet ate it, basically it would be demoralizing to straight Johnny Farmboy from Podunkville if Pvt. Light Loafers from Vancouver was to walk as far, dig as much, shoot as straight, etc. Its not about excluding gays its about keeping hetero empowerment at its highest readiness.

What a load of horseshit.

THere's a certain vibe that men can share in battle, derived from, and fueled by, testosterone. They have to be all together on one mission, and cannot worry about men who would be distracted by the thought of wanting to fuck his partner.

I can't work well with women, because all I want to do is reach my hands down their fucking pants...I'm serious. I work at a warehouse now, until the economy recoups enough for my business to walk on it's own two feet, and I've fucked two of the women who work there already. ANd here I am, mad at having to do my job, because sexbomb walks by, and I'm wanting to fuck the shit out of her...

Has nothing to do with this little retarded "Well, they dont want GIRLZ or GIRLIE BOYZ to be as good as them" bullshit....God fucking damn, man, that's so used......

[Dakota Valkyrie]

If you're thinking about your pecker or your butt in the heat of battle, YOU are the problem, not the man or woman near you. :)

Heterosexuals that can't contain themselves are just as great a danger as homosexuals that can't contain themselves.
Homophobes that can't contain themselves are just as great a danger as racists and misogynists that can't contain themselves.

I'm pretty sure that throughout history men, women, blacks, whites, heterosexuals, and homosexuals have fought side by side for a common cause. Everyday, everywhere, people work with someone they do not like (or even loath). The military has stricter guidelines and codes of ethics than most "jobs". If you can't handle it, it's not the place for you.

[Athena]

What a load of horseshit.

THere's a certain vibe that men can share in battle, derived from, and fueled by, testosterone. They have to be all together on one mission, and cannot worry about men who would be distracted by the thought of wanting to fuck his partner.

I can't work well with women, because all I want to do is reach my hands down their fucking pants...I'm serious. I work at a warehouse now, until the economy recoups enough for my business to walk on it's own two feet, and I've fucked two of the women who work there already. ANd here I am, mad at having to do my job, because sexbomb walks by, and I'm wanting to fuck the shit out of her...

Has nothing to do with this little retarded "Well, they dont want GIRLZ or GIRLIE BOYZ to be as good as them" bullshit....God fucking damn, man, that's so used......

LMAO. I'm pretty sure every gay on the planet can exhibit more self control than you. :p

Regardless, your position seems to boil down to to the assumption that soldiers are largely ignorant and homophobic, and that gay people lack self-control. If soldier A is actually distracted by the thought that soldier B may be attracted to him, that's his problem. Furthermore, anyone who would spend their time worrying about that is one arrogant SOB. Now, if soldier B actually hits on soldier A, that is a punishable offense, is it not?

Gays have been serving the military for as long as the military existed. They should not have to continue to fear that someone will find out simply because it might make other soldiers a bit uncomfortable.

[Gilbrit]

I am a born and raised "Army Brat."
I also have relatives who are gay and served the military. The last one retired as a Lt Col. (So did his boyfriend.)
In observing 40 some odd years of the military, this is what it boils down to:

When you join the military, it needs to be said, that it is not akin to getting a union job. There are rules that will be followed.
You sign a contract and you are owned for the duration of the contract. - Simple as that.
Who or what you fuck shouldn't enter the picture.
Stay within those guidelines and do the job.

[The Diabolical Mr. Lieman]

LMAO. I'm pretty sure every gay on the planet can exhibit more self control than you. :p

Regardless, your position seems to boil down to to the assumption that soldiers are largely ignorant and homophobic, and that gay people lack self-control. If soldier A is actually distracted by the thought that soldier B may be attracted to him, that's his problem. Furthermore, anyone who would spend their time worrying about that is one arrogant SOB. Now, if soldier B actually hits on soldier A, that is a punishable offense, is it not?

Gays have been serving the military for as long as the military existed. They should not have to continue to fear that someone will find out simply because it might make other soldiers a bit uncomfortable.

Why would you say that? I would say my self control is impeccable, considering what Im tempted to do every damn day.

And while I served only briefly, sure, these are young kids going in, and theres a HEALTHY dose of homophobia, and rage for them. When I was there, we called each other faggots all the time, and this was Fort Benning, mind you, where it was LAW that if you got caught cockhawking (and men cockhawk, comparing cock sizes all the time. Yes, ladies, we men all wish we had massive dicks to shove down your throats to shut you the fuck up with) you'd get your fucking. ass. beat.

Do I oppose gays in the military? No. Am I for dont ask, dont tell? Yes, for THEIR sakes. Many would be DEAD if they ran about, talking about hot ass on Wednesdays....

[Pirelli Jones]

What a load of horseshit.

Sorry dude, I guess you're the only one on the internet allowed to talk out their ass?

You're so full of shit all the time and you have to point out I'm being facetious?

Brilliant! DUMFUX

[Athena]

Do I oppose gays in the military? No. Am I for dont ask, dont tell? Yes, for THEIR sakes. Many would be DEAD if they ran about, talking about hot ass on Wednesdays....

That's noble of you, really, being concerned for them like that. But, if you ask gays in the military, they're not afraid of other soldiers finding out as much as they fear being discharged due to their sexual orientation.

Homosexuals know what the risks are a deserve to weigh them for themselves. There are equal risks for women in the military, but, if they want to subject themselve to that risk, that should be their choice. No one should have to worry about losing their career over sexual orientation. It's discrimination, plain and simple.

[Athena]

Sorry dude, I guess you're the only one on the internet allowed to talk out their ass?

You're so full of shit all the time and you have to point out I'm being facetious?

Brilliant! DUMFUX

:o

You were being facetious? Heh...My bad. Frankly, that was the only argument against gays in the military that sounded the least bit purchasable, to me. :p

[The Diabolical Mr. Lieman]

Sorry dude, I guess you're the only one on the internet allowed to talk out their ass?

You're so full of shit all the time and you have to point out I'm being facetious?

Brilliant! DUMFUX

Awesome. What you say bounces off of me, and sticks to you...like rubber glue...eh.

You rock, Pirelli. I mean that.

[The Diabolical Mr. Lieman]

That's noble of you, really, being concerned for them like that. But, if you ask gays in the military, they're not afraid of other soldiers finding out as much as they fear being discharged due to their sexual orientation.

Homosexuals know what the risks are a deserve to weigh them for themselves. There are equal risks for women in the military, but, if they want to subject themselve to that risk, that should be their choice. No one should have to worry about losing their career over sexual orientation. It's discrimination, plain and simple.

Maybe you'll change the world one day. Probably not.

[Gilbrit]

No one should have to worry about losing their career over sexual orientation. It's discrimination, plain and simple.

Have you ever seen an enlistment contract?
It clearly states what is expected.

Sexual orientation serves no purpose in the armed forces.

Enlisted pregnant women are to do the jobs they enlisted for until delivery. After delivery, child care is the mother's problem, she is to be at her job.
Men and women are court martialed for extra marital affairs.

Bringing in any additional issues is besides the point... Contract signed... You are now property of the US military.
The US military does not "do" gray.
For the US military to their jobs, they cannot "be gray".

[The Diabolical Mr. Lieman]

:o

You were being facetious? Heh...My bad. Frankly, that was the only argument against gays in the military that sounded the least bit purchasable, to me. :p

Wow, this worries me. You were subscribing to the old "if one disagrees with gays, it must be because theyre afraid of them, or ARE one" theory?

Jesus A fucking Christ. Go watch more television. They have other stuff they want you to think, too.

[brokenandtwisted]

Surfing around, I came across this particularly amusing article about the recent hearing held by the the House Armed Services personnel subcommittee on the topic of the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy that prevents gays from openly serving in the military.

Now, I'm from Seattle, so the very idea that gays serving in the military could be problematic enough to prevent them from doing so is completely foreign to me. That being said, I'm aware that there's a supply of ex-soldiers and military wives here at D'D who may have some insight that I've yet to consider.

So? What say you? Is there reason to keep gays from openly serving in the military?

Is this a serious article? Hilarity ensued when I read it. :roll:

a) One's sexual preference is none of your God damn business.
b) This is no different from racism/misogyny.
c) One's sexual orientation does not effect performance (excluding porn stars).
d) This policy is so 1980, let's step into the future here America.

Then again, arguing with the "Don't ask, don't tell" logic is like .

[Athena]

Wow, this worries me. You were subscribing to the old "if one disagrees with gays, it must be because theyre afraid of them, or ARE one" theory?

Jesus A fucking Christ. Go watch more television. They have other stuff they want you to think, too.

I can't think of a better reason for people not wanting gays in the military. I mean, you certainly didn't offer one.

Did you happen to read the column I linked to in the OP? The woman invited to speak on behalf of those who oppose gays in the military gave a very fearful and ridiculous diatribe.

Incidentally, homophobia is termed that particular way for a reason.

[Pete Bondurant]

The question is; Will all of these homo-sexuals feel comfortable wearing camouflage...in public?

[Dr. Salvador]

ok, so i am ex-army infantry, and i can tell everyone here this:

it would not matter one bit to me if another guy in my squad was gay, as long as he wasnt weak. and i do not think that gay=weak. the majority of the reasons against gays serving are simply discriminatory. just as not all men in the army want to go around and rape the women in whatever area they are in, im sure not every gay wants to secretly fuck every man he comes in contact with.

ever been shot at? the last thing you get is a hard-on.