To Catch a Predator Crossed the Line...

[Athena]

...to the tune of $105 million.

That's the settlement they've been ordered to dole out to the family of a man who they say was driven to suicide as a direct result of the show's ethically questionable tactics. Apparently, a federal judge agreed, stating the network "crossed the line from responsible journalism to irresponsible and reckless intrusion into law enforcement." Ouch. So, what happened?

Well, Louis William Conradt Jr., a prosecutor from Dallas, was engaging in a sexually explicit conversation with an adult posed as a 13 year old boy. Yucky. As "To Catch a Predator" does, they set up a sting. Thing is, this prosecutor never showed up. NBC wasn't satisfied, so they pressured authorities to go to his house and arrest him anyway.

The judge in this case, Denny Chin, found that both the network and the law enforcement acted with deliberate indifference, which is a no-no when something bad happens as a result. The future of the "To Catch a Predator" series is uncertain...understandibly so.

I'm not saying they shouldn't have done anything about this guy (although, in lots of cases, "solicitation" is a bullshit charge), but it's clear they could have done something differently. Personally, when I enjoyed myself an episode or two of TCaP, I always felt like it was a little ethically ambiguous. Did anyone else feel the same, or did your seething hatred for these men blind you to any concerns that might have been there?

[Mikey B]

[ame="http://youtube.com/watch?v=xaUcq-OUatA"]YouTube - David Spade To Catch A Predator[/ame]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA

[Morbid]

I don't like when they try to bust guys for doing nothing more that chatting with underage people who are actually undercover adults as they AREN'T actually talking to underage people. They could be just fucking around, acting out a sick fantasy without actually hurting anyone, who knows. I just am not sold on that end of the "catch a predator" spectrum.

But when they go to the house...that demonstrates intent, to me, and all is fair game as far as I am concerned and they deserve anything that happens to them

In this particular case, I agree with the settlement.

[Mikey B]

I don't like when they try to bust guys for doing nothing more that chatting with underage people who are actually undercover adults as they AREN'T actually talking to underage people. They could be just fucking around, acting out a sick fantasy without actually hurting anyone, who knows. I just am not sold on that end of the "catch a predator" spectrum.

But when they go to the house...that demonstrates intent, to me, and all is fair game as far as I am concerned and they deserve anything that happens to them

In this particular case, I agree with the settlement.

I can't stop thinking about all the times they ask the guy "What were you going to do?" and they respond, "Hang out", meanwhile there's condoms, beer, weapons, etc in the car. I know, it's sick, but watching the old men's faces drop is totally worth it.

[Lizard]

I can't stop thinking about all the times they ask the guy "What were you going to do?" and they respond, "Hang out", meanwhile there's condoms, beer, weapons, etc in the car.

Lubricant. Don't forget the lubricant. <shudders>

[Mikey B]

Lubricant. Don't forget the lubricant. <shudders>

Oh man. This show needs to be released on DVD!

[JenJen1995]

Don't forget the candy and flowers they bring to the little girls they try to "hang out" with!

[Mikey B]

Don't forget the candy and flowers they bring to the little girls they try to "hang out" with!

Who can forget that? "How old was she?" "16" "How old?" "She said she was 13 but we were just going to hang out"

[petrina]

yep its the showing up that gets em. when he didnt show, end of story. so sad t.c.a.p. but when he didn't show you had nothing. except for a big settlement and at least the perception of a tiny bit of the blood of a lonely, possibly pedo, dude on your hands

[Mom of 4]

I don't like when they try to bust guys for doing nothing more that chatting with underage people who are actually undercover adults as they AREN'T actually talking to underage people. They could be just fucking around, acting out a sick fantasy without actually hurting anyone, who knows. I just am not sold on that end of the "catch a predator" spectrum.

But when they go to the house...that demonstrates intent, to me, and all is fair game as far as I am concerned and they deserve anything that happens to them

In this particular case, I agree with the settlement.

I could not have said that better Morbid. Chatting alone should not be the basis of a charge. Actually showing up at an arranged time to meet with a minor to do the things you discussed while chatting is absolutely fair game. Bringing along condoms, booze, sex toys ect. just makes it a slam dunk to me.

[dop]

Edit: funny yet barley related Hansen gif Gif takes too long to load, Wouldnt want to fuck up the thread for serious the discusion...

Heres in link form isntead

[celtic friend]

Lubricant. Don't forget the lubricant. <shudders>

Yeah, almost all of them have lubricant. Oh my goodness!

[Heather]

I agree with the lawsuit. Chatting is one thing (although chatting sexually with a child is never, never right), but the guy didn't show up at the kid's house with a 6 pack of Bacardi Silver and mult-colored condoms.


I always wonder if they ever find anything more sinister in the predator's property as to hurt the child with, by the way. I know that's morbid, but it's entirely possible.

[Dr. Salvador]

yeah................when YOUR 12 year old daughter "chats" to a 55 year old guy about tossing his salad and getting fucked in the ass while she has her hair done up in pony tails i imagine some of you will have a different idea of what is and isnt "crossing the line". seriously, some of you people are so fucking obtuse it makes me want to come to YOUR house and beat your ass. when an adult is in chat and gets the respone "i am underage" or some such, then it should end right there. anyone who thinks a grown man has a good reason to chat it up with some random child he doesnt know about sex is simply fucking retarded.

at least this idiot is dead (so many innocent people kill themselves when confronted with something like this.....................RIIIIIGGGHT) kinda makes you wonder what other things he was guilty of, eh. lamest lawsuit ever, and if there was a god this idiots sister would soon find herself the victim of a random beatdown at the hands of small evil children ala Them.

[Dakota Valkyrie]

That's the settlement they've been ordered to dole out to the family of a man who they say was driven to suicide as a direct result of the show's ethically questionable tactics.

The article says NBC reached the settlement - not that it was ordered to it. To me, that is different. Settlements need not be an admission of guilt, but rather a matter of saving $$ in the long run. Lawyers can be very expensive and even a long trial that they eventually win could cost well more than that measly amount (that is a measly amount to NBC). Some things just aren't worth the hassle.

Personally, I agree with the fact that Dateline rushed things and therefore crossed a line.

The article linked above said: the lawsuit contained sufficient facts to make it plausible that the suicide was foreseeable, that police had a duty to protect Conradt from killing himself and that the officers and NBC acted with deliberate indifference.

The guy probably would have offed himself anyway - no matter how slow things had gone if he was to be arrested. He just seemed like the kind of upstanding guy that can't stand shame.

A very interesting (but long and fairly in-depth) article on the situation is "Tonight on Dateline This Man Will Die" from Esquire, September 2007
http://www.esquire.com/features/predator0907

In addition to very detailed telling of the tale, it brings up some very interesting things near the end:

Is it possible that Bill Conradt, an adult pretending to be a teenager, might have suspected, correctly, that “Luke” was also an adult pretending? Yes: Everybody knows that the Internet is a swamp of false identities. And is there any evidence that Conradt had ever acted on the longings that his chats illuminated? On the contrary, he chose not to when presented with the opportunity. Was it morally wrong for Bill Conradt to engage in online sex chats with an apparent child? Of course. But did his actions merit the response to them? Before answering this question, a man should take stock of the history of the desires he’s never acted on, and whether he should ever have to defend that history in court, or see it detailed on television.

Details are not given as to what the exact content of the chats were... maybe they are out there somewhere in cyberspace. But for a seasoned felony prosecutor to take the suicide way out rather than even try to pan it off as "I knew it was Dateline" or some such says a lot to me of his intentions. I think he was tipped off from within and the rest is history. Dateline just sped up the process... but that's not their job.

[Athena]

The article says NBC reached the settlement - not that it was ordered to it. To me, that is different. Settlements need not be an admission of guilt, but rather a matter of saving $$ in the long run. Lawyers can be very expensive and even a long trial that they eventually win could cost well more than that measly amount (that is a measly amount to NBC). Some things just aren't worth the hassle.

Good catch. I must have gotten it confused.


Dr. Salvador - The point is not that it's okay for an adult to have sexually explicit conversations with minors. It's that this conversation is not specifically harmful, unless the adult takes the next step and meets up with the kid. The man in question here didn't do that, yet the network used their sway to pressure local authorities to respond to the situation overdramatically. That's the issue that was to be brought before the court.

The fact that my perspective or anyone else's makes you want to beat our asses suggests to me that you are not exactly the reasoned authority on the subject.

[hunibuni]

The first ammendment protects speech between the perverts and the teenyboppers. The arrests come when they show up because intent is proven.

That said, there is not enough lube in the world for them to get out of the jam they are in when they get caught.

[Dakota Valkyrie]

In looking at this, the main beef seems to be with Dateline's push on law enforcement for an arrest warrant (that a local judge did sign). Followed by an immediate public arrest where they intended to ambush him that "caused" his suicide. It's not about their "normal" practices.

I don't think the initial tactics of Dateline are or were wrong. What happened afterward is where the problem lies. If they had stuck to the usual format and just waited for pervs to show up and wrote those off that did not, all would be OK. They should have just left this guy's name with the locals and had them "catch him in the act".

They went into a feeding frenzy when they had a big fish and got caught in a net themselves on this one. I hope they continue to do the "To Catch a Predator" series. I love a good laugh.

[Nell]

I do have a 12 year old girl. And while I would be furious to discover some grown man was perving her on the internet, there is still a large difference between chat and actions, such as showing up at a meeting place. Also, I think I would be most angry at myself for not watching shit closer. Ever heard of a keystroke tracker? It records every keystroke made, every website visited, and every chat logged. All I have to do at the end of the day is sit down with a nice cuppa coffee and read what she did all day. $49.99 for peace of mind. Because kids will get up to shenanigans behind your back, no matter how well you raise them or how carefully you watch them. And pervs will always be around to chat, whether on the net or in the park.

[Dakota Valkyrie]

Nell, Nell, Nell. :) Why would you let software do your job? You wouldn't watch your daughter talk to a perv in the local park and then pull her aside later and warn her of the dangers of that activity, would you? Just sayin' ;)

[Nell]

I don't let software do my whole job. That is ridiculous. I talk to my kids, I watch what they do, I monitor their activities, I am frequently accused of being way overprotective. But I also have to let up a little or she will never grow up. I cannott hold her hand until she is 18, she is not my only child and I must work. So maybe I didn't word it just right but I was trying to prove the point that no matter what I do she can go behind my back if she chooses. The keystroke tracker makes me feel safer. Seriously, I can't keep her off the computer altogether because kids today need it for school, but I can do all I can to protect her.

Did you really think I am the kind of person to let software do my entire job? Because that is so far from what I meant.

And no I wouldn't just take her aside later if I saw a perv talking to her. Just like I wouldn't sit there and watch her chat with one online. I never said that at all. That is just silly.

[Dakota Valkyrie]

Nope, Nell, I know you better than that... just had to say it because too too many folks think a little thing like that makes everything OK and safe. Just wanted them to think.

If I really thought you just watched TV all day while kiddos ran rampant behind your back on the 'net, I would have told you to do all the things you said (talk to 'em, monitor 'em, etc.). I just wanted others to think... you cheated and spelled it all out for them!!! ;) Ruined all my fun!

Overprotective moms don't let their kids go anywhere but Nick and Disney... if they let them online at all. Irresponsible moms let the kids go anywhere on the net without supervision of any sort or pretend to themselves that they have supervision in the form of software. You're somewhere between those two... and definitely not a stupid mom.

Kiss and make up?

[The Diabolical Mr. Lieman]

I find it humurous that some of you who thought the Megan trial was ridiculous are supporting and standing by the pedophiles in this case.

Kidding, kidding....about the supporting, but not standing by. Seriously, the hypocrisy is pretty bizarre.

SO...I agree that they should've been found responsible, but to the tune of that amount is ridiculous. He's dead, let's all cheer, drink one on his dead ass, and move on. A slap on the wrist to dateline would've been nice, because they did go too far somewhat, but I don't care that they did. Hell, I'm glad they did, because the piece of shit is dead, ya know?

Go Dateline.

[Morbid]

I am not standing by anyone in particular. I am just not supporting lynching someone because of what they chatted about on the internet, especially not if that is all it was. Wow...just like the Megan case...shocker.

[KamuiX]

I agree with the idea of the settlement...I saw this episode, and when he didn't show up, they pushed for the arrest warrent anyways. It was like they really wanted to hunt this guy down. Now, maybe they felt a sort of pressure to get a hold of this guy since he was a DA and in a position of power, but it doesn't excuse the fact that they went about it all wrong.

I still eat these episodes up though...seeing these guys show up at the house and watching them get what they deserve is pure entertainment!

[The Diabolical Mr. Lieman]

The pursuit to punish hypocrisy is a good thing.

This was a DA, a prosecutor, someone who furthers his political career by locking motherfuckers away. He was in a position of greater power, and then when this guy is chatting about swallowing a kid cock, there's no doubt that he should be stalked extra hard.

Glad he's dead. Wish I coulda' been there to watch.

[Mikey B]

I agree with the idea of the settlement...I saw this episode, and when he didn't show up, they pushed for the arrest warrent anyways. It was like they really wanted to hunt this guy down. Now, maybe they felt a sort of pressure to get a hold of this guy since he was a DA and in a position of power, but it doesn't excuse the fact that they went about it all wrong.

I still eat these episodes up though...seeing these guys show up at the house and watching them get what they deserve is pure entertainment!

When's the next episode...I'm so stoked! :D

[sherrz]

I love TCAP lol my favorite part is always when Chris Hansen comes out and is like "Why don't you go ahead and have a seat right there?" I'm always guaranteed an hour of laughs whenever that show comes on. Especially when the pedos are trying to fumble through the 1.5 million excuses they have as to exactly what the hell they're doing there.

[Nell]

I love TCAP lol my favorite part is always when Chris Hansen comes out and is like "Why don't you go ahead and have a seat right there?" I'm always guaranteed an hour of laughs whenever that show comes on. Especially when the pedos are trying to fumble through the 1.5 million excuses they have as to exactly what the hell they're doing there.

I can't believe they actually sit! I would be like, "uh no, that is quite alright." Then run!!! Do they think Chris Hansen wants their child raping tips? That maybe they will come up with an exscuse good enough he will agree it was all just a big misunderstanding? I guess hope springs eternal.

[Mikey B]

I can't believe they actually sit! I would be like, "uh no, that is quite alright." Then run!!! Do they think Chris Hansen wants their child raping tips? That maybe they will come up with an exscuse good enough he will agree it was all just a big misunderstanding? I guess hope springs eternal.

I love when they've actually seen the show. That makes me laugh so hard. Do you know who I am? Oh. MY. God. And, that one guy that ran head-first into the counter...HAHAHAHHA