Karyn Kay Was Reporting Son’s Seizure When Attacked,19yo Son Henry Wachtel Charged

**Whisper** · April 11th, 2012, 10:36 PM

Henry Wachtel

Son Of LaGuardia High School Teacher Charged In Her Death
Neighbors Say Mom, Son Would Often Be Heard Arguing In Their Apartment
April 10, 2012

NEW YORK (CBSNewYork) — A 911 call for help Tuesday morning turned into the death investigation of a Manhattan woman.
The woman, 63-year-old Karyn Kay, was discovered beaten to death at her Midtown high-rise apartment and her teenage son was charged with the horrific crime late Tuesday night, CBS 2 has learned.
Neighbors outside Kay’s apartment on West 55th and 8th Street were in shock. They said mother and son would often be heard arguing in their 10th floor apartment and in the elevator.
Some said Kay, an English teacher at Manhattan’s LaGuardia High School, had been beaten up before.

“Neighbors have been complaining, they’ve moved out. Past year, it’s been okay, but before that there’s been reports to the police,” one neighbor told CBS 2′s Derricke Dennis.
Sources told 1010 WINS that the victim called 911, saying that her son was having a seizure. When cops arrived, they found Kay unconscious and not moving. CBS 2 reported Kay had severe head trauma.
A tearful man identified as 19-year-old Henry Wachtel was seen in the back of a police car, handcuffed and in what appeared to be a police-issued jumpsuit.

I know they used to argue a lot, always thought it was regular teenage stuff, rebellious stuff,” said neighbor Debra Alberts.
“To kill your mother, I can only think maybe drugs,” said neighbor Hasiba Ali.
Kay died at the hospital and neighbors heard her 911 call through the door.
“He was in the background, saying ‘I’m sorry, I didn’t mean it, I love you,’” said a neighbor.
[...]

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/04/...-in-her-death/

NEW YORK (CBSNewYork) – A teenager accused of killing his own mother in their Manhattan high-rise faced a judge Wednesday.
Henry Wachtel seemed agitated as he heard the charge against him: Second-degree murder.
Mr. Wachtel is an epileptic, takes medication and sometimes there are unforeseen consequences with medication,” attorney Lloyd Epstein said.
Karyn Kay’s screams were heard by neighbors and a 911 operator as the 63-year-old was attacked by her 19-year-old son on Tuesday, police said. She had initially called to report that her son was having a seizure.
When police arrived at the 10th floor apartment on West 55th Street, they said Kay was lying on the floor with severe head trauma. She was taken to the hospital where she later died.
In court, the prosecutor quoted the 911 call that featured the victim saying: “He’s coming after me. No, no, no.” The call also revealed there was screaming and wails from the victim and screaming and wails from the defendant, followed by “Mommy, mommy, please don’t die.”
Then, neighbors said they could hear the son inside the apartment.

He was in the background saying, ‘I’m sorry. I didn’t mean it. I love you,’” one person said.
Several hours later, Wachtel was arrested and charged with his mother’s murder.
“What can you say? Disturbed youth who had it in for his mother,” neighbor Harvey Klinger told CBS 2′s John Slattery on Wednesday.
“It’s disturbing for lack of a better word,” added neighbor Eric Ford.

Wachtel’s father, Edward Wachtel, who was in court, said nothing as he left, except, “no comment.”
Kay was a filmmaker and an English teacher at Manhattan’s LaGuardia High School since 1983. On Wednesday morning, staff members and students at the school were stunned.
[...]
Faculty members at the school said Kay was a jack-of-all-trades. In addition to teaching English, she was the adviser on a student magazine.

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/04/...-be-arraigned/

Karyn Kay

**AngelFire** · April 11th, 2012, 10:40 PM

That kid is way disturbed.

**CbabyRKO** · April 11th, 2012, 11:00 PM

Hmmmm...didnt know one of the unforeseen 8onsequences of Epilepsy meds was turning one into a raging homicidal bastard. Wow! What the hell...

**62julietandvoid** · April 12th, 2012, 12:43 AM

Don't some people have seizures where they black out or something?

**Ninja0980** · April 12th, 2012, 06:29 AM

If I'm a guessing person, I would say he's in the early stages of mental illiness but that's just me.

**hotcnymom** · April 13th, 2012, 03:42 AM

Being a epileptic myself I wonder what medication he was taking for treatment,Most of the time the medication made me into a different type of person that I am.

If he was in the middle of a seizure when she called 911 their is a possibility he might not even know what happened sometimes it will take me hours after a seizure to have any wits back.

**hotcnymom** · April 13th, 2012, 03:44 AM

Originally Posted by 62julietandvoid

Don't some people have seizures where they black out or something?

Yes...

**blacksheep** · April 14th, 2012, 02:00 AM

Ever killed a family member because of a blackout? Medications aside, illness aside, this is an extremely evil act.

**Aena** · April 14th, 2012, 03:47 PM

You can't just put medications and illnesses aside then call it an evil act. If a person is under the influence of a prescribed drug and that drug makes them insane somehow, how does that make the person evil, it would make the prescription evil. Also, if a person has an illness that would make them do something that a normal rational person wouldn't do, it's the same argument. You can't throw all the mitigating circumstances out just because you feel like it.

I have no idea why this guy killed his mom, no idea if it had anything to do with medications or illnesses. Some people DO have problems with medications though, some of those prescriptions screw with your brain chemistry. Which is what I think @hotcnymom and @62julietandvoid were saying, they aren't saying it happened in this case, just that it does happen.

**Shadow** · April 14th, 2012, 03:58 PM

Originally Posted by blacksheep

Ever killed a family member because of a blackout? Medications aside, illness aside, this is an extremely evil act.

I'm in agreement with the others... Some people *do* have violent reactions to medication. I was in the psych ward, when they put me on prozac, I went after some old lady sitting across from me in the day room. I flipped the table over, dumping food and drinks onto the floor and lunged. Fortunately for her, and for me we had orderlies standing by in the day room. I was grabbed, subdued and locked up in the lil' padded room for the next several days. They took me off the medication and things returned to normal. No more violent outbursts.

I'm not justifying nor defending his actions. I am simply stating that sometimes certain medications cause un-foreseen side effects.

~shadow

**HeatherHabilatory** · April 14th, 2012, 04:30 PM

I had a bad reaction to Prozac, too. Started seeing things that were not there, like my deceased grandmother. Luckily, I knew it was an hallucination, took myself to the ER, and was put in for a 24 hour watch. Medications can cause all sorts of problems.

**hotcnymom** · April 14th, 2012, 05:43 PM

Let me try to explain where I was coming from a little bit in more depth,I can only describe what I as a person with Epilepsy can from my experience alone.

A seizure is when the electrical signals in your brain go haywire and fire over and over again.Depending on the part of the brain where the seizure originated(frontal lobe,basil ganglia,ect) and the intensity it can affect memory,control,behavior,emotional reaction,body functions,hallucinations,pain from the neurons in your brain being tripped and that is just the tip of the iceberg.A seizure alone can alter your brain add a brain chemistry changing medication and anything can happen.Like I said prior I will say again when a person is having a seizure they have no clue what the hell is going on,I cannot even describe how scary that is for me personally.I agree it is shitty the kid killed his mom I just wonder since he was in the throes of a seizure and what medication he was taking what affect helped him deep six his mom.

**Momzilla** · April 14th, 2012, 08:11 PM

It's like "the boy who cried wolf"(or seizure!) - so many defendents falsely blame mental illness/medical conditions as an excuse for their actions, that it becomes hard for most of us to not be skeptical- (anyone remember the mom who microwaved her baby & blamed a seizure?!)

It makes me feel really sorry for the people who really DO have a legit medical conditions- to have to deal with the guilt of what you have done and really NOT be responsible, plus so many people doubting your innocence--it's got to be unbearable!

**TheMeaningOfItAll** · April 14th, 2012, 08:37 PM

I once watched a kid I grew up with have a seizure in high school Biology class. He was my lab partner and just got up off his stool and started walking around the classroom sticking anything he could find in electrical outlets. We all kept trying to get him to sit down but he was fucking out.of.it. He had no idea what he was doing. The lights were on but nobody was home. Another time, during a football game, he had a seizure and started playing for the other team, taking out his own teammates. If you didn't know that he had a seizure disorder, you'd just think he was insane. Outside of the seizures, he was a well-spoken, meek kid. It is possible that the kid in this story just blacked out during a seizure and offed his mother. Maybe the seizure allowed him to do what he had always subconsciously wanted to do or maybe his meds changed his brain chemistry...I'm unsure on this one. I'd be interested in hearing the 911 call.

**Whisper** · April 14th, 2012, 08:41 PM

Originally Posted by TheMeaningOfItAll

I once watched a kid I grew up with have a seizure in high school Biology class. He was my lab partner and just got up off his stool and started walking around the classroom sticking anything he could find in electrical outlets. We all kept trying to get him to sit down but he was fucking out.of.it. He had no idea what he was doing. The lights were on but nobody was home. Another time, during a football game, he had a seizure and started playing for the other team, taking out his own teammates. If you didn't know that he had a seizure disorder, you'd just think he was insane. Outside of the seizures, he was a well-spoken, meek kid. It is possible that the kid in this story just blacked out during a seizure and offed his mother. Maybe the seizure allowed him to do what he had always subconsciously wanted to do or maybe his meds changed his brain chemistry...I'm unsure on this one. I'd be interested in hearing the 911 call.

I went to school with a guy named Russ and his seizures were he would stop dead in his tracks and stare off a few minutes until it passed
We all got used to him doing it and walked around him in the hallways and staircases

**blacksheep** · April 14th, 2012, 10:55 PM

Not sure what to say. I understand what you are all saying, and agree generally. I stand by my gut feeling though, the seizure wasn't the cause of this. Nor were the medications. Contributors, triggers, (excuses), all those things. There was allready violence in the home, the neighbours witnessed the noise... THAT speaks more to me than anything else.

I dare say medication that could trigger a seriously random outburst, like the one Shadow experienced, would be administered in a controlled environment....

Are you saying this was nothing but a failure of the medical professionals to provide proper care to the murderer?

**blacksheep** · April 14th, 2012, 11:10 PM

He beat her to death, that takes dedication. In this man's case I can and am ignoring, and judging him harshly. Get him off the street for ever.

**VAS1326** · April 15th, 2012, 01:05 AM

I agree he needs to be off the streets but I'm not so convinced he was sane when he did this. His mother who knows his medical condition thought he was in the mist of a seizure and was so convinced he needed help she called 911. So obviously something was going wrong in his head when this all happened. We do not know the time elapse of the phone call to 911. Did this progress real fast or take a bit of time? I mean he obviously immediately felt remorse which makes me think he suddenly came too and realized what he had done. If he planned this or did this in his "right" mind why would he wait until she was on the phone with the authorities to do so? Why not flee the scene? Why allow so much evidence against you to be caught on voice recording? It just don't make sense for someone who planned something like this to do it that way and then sit an wait to be arrested. Maybe the past violent reactions were also caused by the seizures and/or the medications. We don't know how long he has been on the current medication. I wouldn't rule it out myself. It's known that some mind altering drugs used to treat disorders in younger people can cause serious negative reactions (violence, anger, sucicidal tendencies) So maybe if the brain is haywire anyway and you add the wrong drug well it's a disaster waiting to happen.

If he had hurt her in the past and she would deny it then I'm thinking she too made excuses for him. He may have only gotten violent when he was having an episode and instead she covered it up to keep him out of trouble since he was "not in his right mind" Now of course I don't know that for fact but I can easily see a mother who knows her own child making excuse if she doesn't believe he had control of himself when he did those things.

Either way prison or the pysch ward he doesn't need to be let out in the public if he is prone to violent outburst.

**HeatherHabilatory** · April 15th, 2012, 02:24 AM

Don't get me wrong, I don't want him walking the streets any more than I would want Jack the Ripper out on them. But I don't think prison is the answer, just yet.