NOW will we pay more attention to Afghanistan?

[Athena]

We're finally at the point where we're seeing some gains in Iraq. That's great news. It appears as though it may be sustained. It's really important that we see some success out of the billions of dollars and thousands of lives we've spent on, well, the country that didn't attack us. Meanwhile, over in Afghanistan, the war effort was painfully underestimated and underfunded. We all but gave up looking for Bin Laden, which, really, is okay with me, as he is just one man. However, the Taliban never stopped being a threat. They are still active, still hostile and now, they are making a comeback.

In case you hadn't heard by now, the Taliban busted a bunch of the crew out of the pokie and, with help from the extra manpower, they've invaded several towns in southern Afghanistan. This particular area is specifically significant and strategic, too. Back when they were at war with Russia, this particular area, known for it's thick orchards and irrigation canals, was never defeated by the Russians because the surroundings made the location so easy to defend.

NATO's response to this renewed push by the Taliban? "Well, we've redeployed troops to meet the threat." Really? Because, these towns have already been invaded. We kinda missed that boat, if you ask me. Will we be able to beat them back? Perhaps, but it won't be easy.

For years, it was the story of a success in Afghanistan and a struggle in Iraq. Now that the situation appears to be reversing, do you have any comments on what we should have done differently? Were we right for invading Iraq how we did, when we did? Or, would you rather have had us focus on Afghanistan?

[impqueen]

My brother is an Army officer who spent 2006 in Afghanistan. He came home saying that Afghanistan was a much bigger threat than Iraq. The children are taught to recon the troops, the vehicles go over land mines regularly, the violence is always just barely held in check, and the terrain is very difficult. According to him, the Taliban isn't just now making a comeback - they've never left. I tend to believe that's true, but I also see escalation in Afghanistan in terms of American lives lost. Maybe that's because my daughter's friend was killed there two weeks ago. Land mine, again.

My brother believes that this is a religious war and that it will not stop until America is converted, hit financially (oh lookie, that's already happened) or killed, as per the Koran's teachings on how to deal with infidels. He also thinks America is a big wuss and needs to start bombing the crap out of Afghanistan and pretty much anyone else who wants to fight.

Said brother was deployed to Iraq this past week. I got email from him saying that it was hot, but not much other detail - given his job, he usually can't give us any while he's gone. It'll be interesting to see how he compares the two war zones when he returns.

I don't have good answers for this war. On a personal level, I just want it to stop before more people I know and care for die. Whether that's the best thing for the US, i honestly no longer have any idea.

[Athena]

My brother is an Army officer who spent 2006 in Afghanistan. He came home saying that Afghanistan was a much bigger threat than Iraq. The children are taught to recon the troops, the vehicles go over land mines regularly, the violence is always just barely held in check, and the terrain is very difficult. According to him, the Taliban isn't just now making a comeback - they've never left. I tend to believe that's true, but I also see escalation in Afghanistan in terms of American lives lost. Maybe that's because my daughter's friend was killed there two weeks ago. Land mine, again.

My brother believes that this is a religious war and that it will not stop until America is converted, hit financially (oh lookie, that's already happened) or killed, as per the Koran's teachings on how to deal with infidels. He also thinks America is a big wuss and needs to start bombing the crap out of Afghanistan and pretty much anyone else who wants to fight.

Said brother was deployed to Iraq this past week. I got email from him saying that it was hot, but not much other detail - given his job, he usually can't give us any while he's gone. It'll be interesting to see how he compares the two war zones when he returns.

I don't have good answers for this war. On a personal level, I just want it to stop before more people I know and care for die. Whether that's the best thing for the US, i honestly no longer have any idea.

I'm sorry to hear about all of that, Imp. Luckily, all my soldier peeps have come home. Some damaged, but no lost lives (knock on wood).

I agree with your brother about the Taliban having never left. I think we whittled them down to what appeared to be "manageable" levels (not to say such a level actually exists), and then walked away.

I also agree with the bit about the U.S. being a wuss. You know, I'm a big fan of innocent civilians and see no need to unnecessarily rape and pillage. But I do believe that our attempts to bend over backward to avoid civilian casualties directly results in the drawn out, ineffective conflicts. We shouldn't have searched the caves of Afghanistan, we should have leveled them.

The religious war aspect... I mean, I know that, in the minds of the extremists, it's VERY religious, but it's the result of clerics who twist the teachings of their holy book. Can you imagine what kinds of wars we would have engaged in if Pat Robertson had been successful in winning the nomination and, eventually, presidency in '88? It's all about keeping the extremists in check, and it's something Western civilization has had a measure of success with. We need to motivate Muslims to do the same, but I'm not sure how to do that.

[DA Devil's Advocate]

Several month to a year before the invasion of Iraq I watched a program on 60 Minutes or some such type show about the millions Phillip Morris, R.J. Reynolds and the other big tobacco companies were making smuggling cigarettes into Iraq. When talk of invading Iraq began I read about the billions Haliburton (Cheny’s former employer) was making in Afganistan. I also read that the consensus around the world was that the U.N. inspectors had observed the destruction of Saddam’s weapons of mass destruction and that he had complied with the terms of his surrender at the end of Gulf War I. The majority opinions of those familiar with the Middle East were that Saddam did not support terrorism because he did not want any faction in his country to potentially rival his power or influence his people (paranoia) and that he did not want to antagonize the United States. Terrorism was a lose lose proposition for him. The major economists were saying that a war with Iraq would cost at least 700 Billion dollars despite Bush’s assurances that it would only cost 125 Billion. The military analysts were saying that the war would cost thousands of American lives on the ground, where it would eventually be fought, and go on for years. The political analysts were naming exiles who they believed Bush would place in power (those exiles did go to Iraq, but amid scandal the Iraqies managed to avoid their leadership).

Before the first bomb dropped I knew two things.
1. This war was about removing Saddam from power to lift the trade embargos.
2. The American people were too stupid to realize this and would go along with the insanity.

Well, we’ve managed to bring the Big Mac and Coca Cola to Iraq. Our job is done. Let’s go home.

I’ve always contended that the real war on terrorism was in Afganistan and wondered why we diverted resources from there. Some claim that Afganistan was the Soviet Union’s Viet-Nam and that it was ultimately responsible for the collapse of communism. Given the history of both regions I don’t see any end in sight no matter who wins the upcoming presidential election.

Aside: I heard on the news today that the Saudis are lowering the price per barrel of oil in July. My question is why aren’t the Iraq prices already at rock bottom? Why aren’t we billing Iraq for their liberation and filling the national reserves to recoup some of the billions we spent to liberate their country?

[CPL CHUD]

We were winning when I left.

[ImmortalOne]

America, the World Police. No wonder people get pissed off at us.

[CPL CHUD]

America, the World Police. No wonder people get pissed off at us.

It's jealousy.

[Pete Bondurant]

Before the first bomb dropped I knew two things.
1. This war was about removing Saddam from power to lift the trade embargos.
2. The American people were too stupid to realize this and would go along with the insanity.

The United States did not need to remove Saddam Hussein in order to lift the trade embargo. Saddam would have been more than happy to engage in trade with the United States. He was actually quite pragmatic in many ways. It was the United States government that was obsessed with sanctions et al.



Halliburton/KBR has actually LOST a great deal of money due to the war in Iraq, not to mention the assault inflicted on the corporation's reputation.

[CPL CHUD]

The United States did not need to remove Saddam Hussein in order to lift the trade embargo. Saddam would have been more than happy to engage in trade with the United States. He was actually quite pragmatic in many ways. It was the United States government that was obsessed with sanctions et al.

Those pesky sanctions. I can't believe we actually rallied against poor little Saddam. All he wanted was the weapons sanction lifted. That's all. I mean, what harm could that have done right?

[DA Devil's Advocate]

The United States did not need to remove Saddam Hussein in order to lift the trade embargo. Saddam would have been more than happy to engage in trade with the United States. He was actually quite pragmatic in many ways. It was the United States government that was obsessed with sanctions et al.



Halliburton/KBR has actually LOST a great deal of money due to the war in Iraq, not to mention the assault inflicted on the corporation's reputation.

I don’t know where you got that. From what I read Halliburton/KBR is posting record profits.http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ed...e_war_in_iraq/ . Meanwhile the House approved 162 billion for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, bringing the total to over 800 billion. Currently more that 650 billion for Iraq and 200 billion for Afghanistan.

And yes, Saddam would have been more that happy to engage in trade with the US, just like Castro. The truth is the US will not engage in trade with Cuba until there is a regime change and they would not have opened trade with Iraq unless Saddam agreed to step down.

[Pete Bondurant]

I don’t know where you got that. From what I read Halliburton/KBR is posting record profits.http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ed...e_war_in_iraq/ . Meanwhile the House approved 162 billion for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, bringing the total to over 800 billion. Currently more that 650 billion for Iraq and 200 billion for Afghanistan.

And yes, Saddam would have been more that happy to engage in trade with the US, just like Castro. The truth is the US will not engage in trade with Cuba until there is a regime change and they would not have opened trade with Iraq unless Saddam agreed to step down.

I said that Halliburton/KBR (KBR has since spun off) did not make a great deal of money from the war in Iraq, in the long run. I did not say that the company has not made an overall profit. Halliburton's most profitable division is in Production Optimization, which has benefited from increased well drilling at a time when the industry is running at full capacity. Remember, Halliburton operates in seventy different nations including; China, Colombia, Argentina, Saudi Arabia etc... as well as North Sea oil rigs.

[DA Devil's Advocate]

I said that Halliburton/KBR (KBR has since spun off) did not make a great deal of money from the war in Iraq, in the long run. I did not say that the company has not made an overall profit. Halliburton's most profitable division is in Production Optimization, which has benefited from increased well drilling at a time when the industry is running at full capacity. Remember, Halliburton operates in seventy different nations including; China, Colombia, Argentina, Saudi Arabia etc... as well as North Sea oil rigs.

And now Iraq. The long run hasn't started yet. I'm sure Halliburton was hoping that the oil fields in Iraq would open before now but that they are very happy now that they are opening. Maybe they are just more far sighted than Bush, or more patient. In either event I'm sure they were in it for the long haul and they plan on having a presence in Iraq for many years to come.