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Thread: US Army SGT kills 16 in Afghanistan, mostly women and children.

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    DG Jong Il
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    US Army SGT kills 16 in Afghanistan, mostly women and children.

    Not sure if this should go here or Reality Bites, but for now. http://www.nypost.com/p/news/interna...GFQky37rJlXJ/1

    Moving from house to house, a U.S. Army sergeant opened fire Sunday on Afghan villagers as they slept, killing 16 people — mostly women and children — in an attack that reignited fury at the U.S. presence following a wave of deadly protests over Americans burning Korans.

    The attack threatened the deepest breach yet in U.S.-Afghan relations, raising questions both in Washington and Kabul about why American troops are still fighting in Afghanistan after 10 years of conflict and the killing of Osama bin Laden.
    [...]

    According to U.S. and Afghan officials, Sunday's attack began around 3 a.m. in two villages in Panjwai district, a rural region outside Kandahar that is the cradle of the Taliban and where coalition forces have fought for control for years. The villages are about 500 yards from a U.S. base in a region that was the focus of Obama's military surge strategy in the south starting in 2009.

    Villagers described cowering in fear as gunshots rang out as a soldier roamed from house to house firing on those inside. They said he entered three homes in all and set fire to some of the bodies. Eleven of the dead were from a single family, and nine of the victims were children.
    There are local claims that it was more than one soldier as one could not have done this much damage, but I'm not so sure I'd say he couldn't. Especially in the middle of the night and with people not about to fight back or even know they were in danger.

    Either way he has done a grave dishonour and disservice to his country, his duty and the people he killed. I'm also certain he's effectively sentenced his fellow soldiers to deaths they might otherwise not have faced, and has struck an indirect blow against his own side.
    TheMorningStar : I hear that my meat always smells damned tasty

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    I do not know the reasons for this guys actions yet. Lets say they were completely unjustified. It illustrated the need to pull out of Afghanistan and Iraq. Lets get out of their countries and get back to fixing our own. they have done nothing for us, but give us a position closer to the oil. I am not an oil conspiracy guy, It simply true. The original idea of going into iraq kicking ass and getting out was lost.

    That said, This guy came from Lewis McChord base in Washington. It has swelled to the size of a small city after 911. There are bound to be some rejects from the factory. If anyone wonders why we are in dept, take a look at what it costs to operate these mills. Each solder costs over 1 million dollars to get on the battlefield. One guy or a few incidents is not indicative of a mass failure. That has allready happened and is a symptom of the wars sickness and need to get back to the US. Can't we see that?
    in an election year we will not be able to do anything about it. How sad.
    "Where the fuck am I ? - Amelia Earhart, 1937

    You can say lots of bad things about pedophiles, but at least they drive slowly past schools.->malq

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    DG Jong Il
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    Quote Originally Posted by malq View Post
    I do not know the reasons for this guys actions yet. Lets say they were completely unjustified. It illustrated the need to pull out of Afghanistan and Iraq. Lets get out of their countries and get back to fixing our own. they have done nothing for us, but give us a position closer to the oil. I am not an oil conspiracy guy, It simply true. The original idea of going into iraq kicking ass and getting out was lost.

    That said, This guy came from Lewis McChord base in Washington. It has swelled to the size of a small city after 911. There are bound to be some rejects from the factory. If anyone wonders why we are in dept, take a look at what it costs to operate these mills. Each solder costs over 1 million dollars to get on the battlefield. One guy or a few incidents is not indicative of a mass failure. That has allready happened and is a symptom of the wars sickness and need to get back to the US. Can't we see that?
    in an election year we will not be able to do anything about it. How sad.
    I agree on all counts...

    Now, the way the military handles him and this incident is what should reflect on the forces as a whole. The larger the group of people, the more likely there are sociopathic douchebags in it, and there are a HELL of a lot of soldiers, it goes without saying that some of them will be capable of and willing to commit atrocities. Leaving the emotional side out of it, (as I prefer to do in scenarios like this) people like this put everyone on their own side at further risk, and do nothing to advance it. They are a detriment and should be dealt with accordingly.

    Of course, no matter how they handle it, there will be a bunch of people claiming they did the worst thing they could possible do.
    TheMorningStar : I hear that my meat always smells damned tasty

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    Squirrel On Crack JGo555's Avatar
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    Sounds to me like a psychopath or someone that went all PTSD bezerk or a psychotic break... I hope that is the case & not the dude being a psychopath/serial killer in Army disguise.

    We all have our crazies, this one slipped through the grids & managed to get a few guns.


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    Grand President LeaveMeBe's Avatar
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    I hesitated to say this, but my son is stationed at Lewis McCord and is set to deploy at the end of the month to this very area. After hearing this on the radio this morning, my hair stood on end. For every story that makes it into the media, there are 3 (or more) that don't. I worry every day about him being sent over, and my worry is equal, if you get my drift. My son is a wonderful young man with an amazing sense of honor and integrity (wish I could say I'm biased because I am his mom, but that's a general consensus from all who know him) and I don't worry about his moral compass (frighteningly enough he'll stick to those values no matter the cost) but I worry about those around him. There are sickos everywhere and sometimes you don't have to look further than your own backyard.
    Last edited by LeaveMeBe; November 5th, 2012 at 06:56 PM.

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    DG Jong Il
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeaveMeBe View Post
    I hesitated to say this, but my son is stationed at Lewis McChord and is set to deploy at the end of the month to this very area. After hearing this on the radio this morning, my hair stood on end. For every story that makes it into the media, there are 3 (or more) that don't. I worry every day about him being sent over, and my worry is equal, if you get my drift. My son is a wonderful young man with an amazing sense of honor and integrity (wish I could say I'm biased because I am his mom, but that's a general consensus from all who know him) and I don't worry about his moral compass (frighteningly enough he'll stick to those values no matter the cost) but I worry about those around him. There are sickos everywhere and sometimes you don't have to look further than your own backyard.
    Why hesitate?
    TheMorningStar : I hear that my meat always smells damned tasty

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    Did Obama apologize yet?
    Sheevaa: I can understand...I got peed on for the first time and got all excited about it:P
    DamagedGoods: mm... my meat smells damned tasty, it's a shame I've got another few hours to wait for it.
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    DG Jong Il
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMorningStar View Post
    Did Obama apologize yet?
    TheMorningStar : I hear that my meat always smells damned tasty

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    Grand President LeaveMeBe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DamagedGoods View Post
    Why hesitate?
    I generally don't share specific information about my loved ones on the internet. You know, technology can be a blessing and a curse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeaveMeBe View Post
    I hesitated to say this, but my son is staioned at Lewis McChord and is set to deploy at the end of the month to this very area. After hearing this on the radio this morning, my hair stood on end. For every story that makes it into the media, there are 3 (or more) that don't. I worry every day about him being sent over, and my worry is equal, if you get my drift. My son is a wonderful young man with an amazing sense of honor and integrity (wish I could say I'm biased because I am his mom, but that's a general consensus from all who know him) and I don't worry about his moral compass (frighteningly enough he'll stick to those values no matter the cost) but I worry about those around him. There are sickos everywhere and sometimes you don't have to look further than your own backyard.
    Your son should be fine. He has a better chance of surviving a tour in Iraq than walking through Central Park This person and event is a very small % of the big picture. It just gets great press because the time is ripe to get out. This war is nothing compared to Vietnam. what this guy did was done on a daily basis for a decade. We would fly over the villages and jungles firebombing everyone we could. People were shot on site. This war is tame and benign compared to all other wars we have had.


    civil war

    At least 618,000 Americans died in the Civil War, and some experts say the toll reached 700,000.
    http://www.civilwarhome.com/casualties.htm

    More soldiers committed suicide in 2010 than were killed in combat(which wasn't much compared to other wars.

    For the second year in a row, more American soldiers—both enlisted men and women and veterans—committed suicide than were killed in the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Excluding accidents and illness, 462 soldiers died in combat, while 468 committed suicide. A difference of six isn't vast by any means, but the symbolism is significant and troubling. In 2009, there were 381 suicides by military personnel, a number that also exceeded the number of combat deaths.
    http://www.good.is/post/more-us-sold...ombat-in-2010/
    Last edited by malq; March 12th, 2012 at 10:21 AM. Reason: add link and fix typo before DG finds it.
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    DG Jong Il
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeaveMeBe View Post
    I generally don't share specific information about my loved ones on the internet. You know, technology can be a blessing and a curse.
    Ahhh! That I understand!
    TheMorningStar : I hear that my meat always smells damned tasty

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    Grand President LeaveMeBe's Avatar
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    @malq - Oh, I absolutely agree! And thank you. It has always been my children's dream and goal to join the military, serve their country, and then become public servants. My son wants to be a firefighter and my daughter either wants to be a firefighter or a National Park Ranger. When my son enlisted a year ago, everyone freaked and asked my take on it. I told them I wanted him to follow his dreams, and if he died while doing it, then so be it. Death lurks and we know not where. He could just as easily die stateside in a car wreck or whatnot working a minimum wage job. In one instance he would be living his life, in the other he would simply be existing.

    I also agree 100% about the type of war we are fighting now. I have two uncles who fought in Vietnam, one did one tour the other did three. I have a grandfather who fought in WWII and my husband and BIL were also in Desert Storm. I can't imagine that any combat is easy, but when I think of Vietnam & WWII it is literally unimaginable to me. To be honest, I worry more about "friendlies" and stupidity of some of the command more than I do the enemy and that was really what my original post was about.
    Last edited by LeaveMeBe; November 5th, 2012 at 06:59 PM.

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    First I want to say I'm relieved that people in here are not defending him yet. On yahoo I saw several justifications for this man's actions. In my opinion first and foremost it is never okay to go into a home and shoot innocent children in their sleep. There is no excuse for it. From the article I read earlier he went back to the base after and turned himself in (so I'm assuming he confessed).

    This was his 4th time in theater. I'm guessing a severe mental break or PTSD induced crazy. The biological father of my 3rd born was in the Army and a lot of fucked up shit was witnessed or done while he was in Iraq. When he got back he had these crazy blackout's and would not remember a thing he did for periods of time. He ended up discharged from the Army (because of something he did during an episode) They concluded he had PTSD but he was not medically discharged. His life was a mess after that. He ended up committing suicide.

    I agree that our service members are being fucked up in the head by the wars and the multiple deployments. A lot of the time the period between deployments are far too short for somebody to really get their head on straight before having to return to the theater. I really just wish we would pull them out of Afganistan because it is doing no good to be there.

    Even though I understand and am sympathic to his PTSD I cannot condone his actions. I cannot give him a pass. If he in fact confessed to these henious acts against humanity then he has to be punished through the justice system. We cannot have anyone go into civilians homes and murder innocent people. It's not right. Doesn't matter your culture or country of orgin it is just plain wrong.

    Yes Obama apologized but I think it's appropriate. One of his soliders when on a killing spree. He is the Commandar in Chief and he is ultimately responsible for each and every service member. Okay so they don't apologize to us but last time I checked we are the United States of America and we should take the moral high ground. We also need to reinforce that the action on one man does not reflect the entire armed forces as a whole. I myself am a military widow (my husband passed 2 years prior to my son's bio-dad committing suicide, needless to say my current fiance has never been in the military after that luck) I am a proud widow of one of the best damn Search and Rescue swimmers this world has ever known. He was a great man who loved and served his country. He died doing what he loved (he was in a helicopter crash) and he wouldn't have had it any other way. I fully support our troops 100%. It really sucks when you have one go off the rails and makes all of them look bad. Our miltary should not be judged by one bad seed.

    I agree with Damaged Goods....he did more harm for his brother in arms then anything else. He puts each and everyone of them in harms way if and when the Afgani's decided to retaliate. I mean if someone did there here we would want their head on a platter too. If another country had troops here and one of them did this to an American family we would want to run them out too.
    Last edited by VAS1326; March 12th, 2012 at 03:09 PM.


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    The Shakedown King Pete Bondurant's Avatar
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    This incident does not surprise me at all. What is odd is that such things do not occur more often. The United States has been in Afghanistan for a decade now and there is absolutely no improvement therein. This war has been lost.
    Yet know, my master, God omnipotent,
    Is mustering in his clouds on our behalf
    Armies of pestilence; and they shall strike
    Your children yet unborn and unbegot,
    That lift your vassal hands against my head
    And threat the glory of my precious crown.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Bondurant View Post
    This incident does not surprise me at all. What is odd is that such things do not occur more often. The United States has been in Afghanistan for a decade now and there is absolutely no improvement therein. This war has been lost.
    Right!
    Compared to Vietnam, this war is lukewarm daycare under a microscope. One shootout and our whole military is tarnished. We care way too much what the enemy thinks for someone who is at war with them. When did war become a PC, feelgood event where there are fucking rules? There are no rules as long as you are trying to achieve something. What that is, is long gone.
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    I come from a military family; service to our country is is expected and honored. This doesn't shock me, it horrifies me. The fallout from this scares the hell out of me. The soldier, I have heard, was on his 4th tour; that's too many. i believe he suffers from PTSD and had a psychotic break...like our boys in Vietnam who saw Charlie everywhere; and we've all heard of My Lai and Song Mei. I want all our soldiers home right now because I really think awful things are going to happen. The fanatics are going to whip everyone into a homicidal frenzy and I don't even want to think of what their response will be.
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    Grand Baron TACO's Avatar
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    I agree with a lot that has been said already. Especially bringing our troops back home!
    What bothers me is the fact that we might be going to war with Syria, for what? For this to happen over there as well? Not trying to sound all political & shit but....remember this when you go to the ballot box this November. JMO
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  33. #18
    DG Jong Il
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    Quote Originally Posted by malq View Post
    When did war become a PC, feelgood event where there are fucking rules?
    I don't disagree with the sentiment but I sort of disagree with the rules part. War has often had rules of a sort, an honour/ethics code that is followed.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushido for example.
    TheMorningStar : I hear that my meat always smells damned tasty

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    pessimist Akelda's Avatar
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    and I just heard on tv that the taliban is threatening to behead Americans. Big surprise there. We should get the hell out of there and start trying to work on our problems at home, imo. As for wars having rules... I think there was more of a code of ethics and stuff way back in ww1 and ww2,..but times are very different. If we keep trying to be polite and ethical in our wars around the world, we're just going to look even more laughable. Armies have to fight to win. If the enemy fights dirty, then we have to fight dirtier. They certainly are not considering whether or not our 'president' apologizes for those actions. They aim to kill any American they see. (btw, my opinions don't really have anything to do with this soldier who went nuts, I'm just saying that if we keep trying to apologize and take a higher ground,.we'll just keep dying faster).
    the future's uncertain and the end is always near...

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    Details about the staff sergeant, who has not been identified, emerged as the Taliban vowed revenge against "sick-minded American savages" after the mass killing.

    What has trickled out about the suspect is that he was 38 and serving on his fourth combat deployment in 10 years, the first three in Iraq. He was on his first tour in Afghanistan, where he'd been since December.

    When the massacre took place he was assigned to Camp Belambay, a remote combat outpost where his job was to be protection for Special Operations Forces who were creating local militias. He was not a member of the special forces unit.

    An official told ABC News that the soldier has suffered a mild traumatic brain injury (TBI) in the past, either from hitting his head on the hatch of a vehicle or in a car accident. He went through the advanced TBI treatment at Fort Lewis and was deemed to be fine.

    He also underwent mental health screening necessary to become a sniper and passed in 2008. He had routine behavioral health screening after that and was cleared, the official said.

    When the soldier returned from his last deployment in Iraq he had difficulty reintegrating, including marital problems, the source told ABC News. But officials concluded that he had worked through those issues before deploying to Afghanistan.

    The shooting occurred at 3 a.m. in three houses in two villages in the Panjway district of southern Kandahar province, an area that was once a Taliban safe haven but has recently become more safe after a surge of troops in 2009.

    The soldier left the base in the middle of the night and wore night-vision goggles during the alleged rampage, according to a source.

    The first village was more than a mile south of the base. While there, he allegedly killed four people in the first house. In the second house, he allegedly killed 11 family members -- four girls, four boys and three adults.

    He then walked back to another village past his base where he allegedly killed one more person, according to a member of the Afghan investigation team and ABC News' interviews with villagers.

    All of the victims were shot in their homes, according to villagers and the Afghan president's office.

    Video from the scene show blood-splattered floors and walls inside a villagers home and blood-soaked bodies of victims, including the elderly and young children, wrapped in blankets and placed in the backseat of a van. Some of the bodies appear to have been burned.

    John Kirby, a Pentagon spokesman, said officials "don't know what his [soldier's] motivation was. We are looking into that."

    After the alleged shooting spree, it's believed the soldier returned to the base on his own and calmly turned himself in. He remains in NATO custody. One source told ABC News that the soldier had "lawyered up" and declined to talk.

    Because of the soldier's role as supporting security for the special operations forces, he is not believed to have known the victims. But it's not clear whether the alleged attack was spontaneous and unprovoked.
    [...]
    http://abcnews.go.com/International/...9#.T1_RS_XkaSr
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    I want to know how a lone armed soldier "sneaked" off base. I have never been on a base where that was remotely possible, let alone in a war zone.
    Sheevaa: I can understand...I got peed on for the first time and got all excited about it:P
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    pessimist Akelda's Avatar
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    Just look up "bacha bazi". We're not the only sick minded savages, but I suppose that would depend on ones definition of "savage".
    the future's uncertain and the end is always near...

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMorningStar View Post
    I want to know how a lone armed soldier "sneaked" off base. I have never been on a base where that was remotely possible, let alone in a war zone.
    That certainly raises the possibility the someone could sneak ON to the base also...

    certainly not a thought I will dwell on at the moment...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dakota Valkyrie View Post
    That certainly raises the possibility the someone could sneak ON to the base also...
    BINGO!!!!!!!!
    You win a cookie.
    Sheevaa: I can understand...I got peed on for the first time and got all excited about it:P
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMorningStar View Post
    BINGO!!!!!!!!
    You win a cookie.
    No wants cookie. While my hubby is relatively safer than being in Afghanistan, he is in the region and those fuckers are crazier than our crazy soldiers.

    My next care package will include body armor suits the bear attack guy invented. And duct tape.
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  48. #26
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    A rouge soldier that is not working under the umbrella of the chain of command is a treasonous one.
    My opinion now is one of disgust. DG, and the rest of you, I am with you on the honor thing. I had to assume this was a joint effort and his command was responsible. I did not not want to believe he alone made that decision.
    "Where the fuck am I ? - Amelia Earhart, 1937

    You can say lots of bad things about pedophiles, but at least they drive slowly past schools.->malq

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  50. #27
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    War is not a pretty thing, it doesnt matter which nation is fighting it.

    I am suprised these kinds of breakdowns are not more frequent given how long they have been there. The body and brain can sometimes only handle so much stress.

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  52. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cape Town Girl View Post
    War is not a pretty thing, it doesnt matter which nation is fighting it.

    I am suprised these kinds of breakdowns are not more frequent given how long they have been there. The body and brain can sometimes only handle so much stress.
    I agree... but this guy was trained as a sniper. "Stress" kind of goes with the job and is hard to avoid.

    He seems to have undergone frequent mental evaluations (according to reports). I wonder if something was missed during one of those, if something was missed by his fellow soldiers while in theater, or if no one saw it coming and the guy just out-n-out snapped.
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    Marshal Cape Town Girl's Avatar
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    Hmm you could find the powers that be knew something was "not quite right" but looked the other way as they need experienced soldiers out there. Although we will probably never find someone who will admit to that.

    I just dont get all the bad press about a few (given the length of the war) US soldiers action's and yes they are terrible actions but this is war we cant apply our reality to the situation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cape Town Girl View Post
    I just dont get all the bad press about a few (given the length of the war) US soldiers action's and yes they are terrible actions but this is war we cant apply our reality to the situation.
    What this soldier did is a crime - in war or peace. What he did is against MILITARY rules at ANY time. He created a danger for all of our soldiers. "This is war" is NO excuse. He endangered not only the mission but the lives of thousands of other soldiers.

    If we waged war that way, we may as well put signup sheets outside the local bar and ship any one who wanted over to play shoot 'em up at willy nilly targets.
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