The Death Of Travyon Martin; George Zimmerman Arrested

[Aena]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/20/justic...html?hpt=ju_c2

A girl who overheard part of an incident involving Florida teenager Trayvon Martin can help prove he was killed "in cold blood," an attorney for Martin's family said Tuesday.

The girl, who was dating the 17-year-old, "completely blows (George) Zimmerman's absurd self-defense claim out of the water," Benjamin Crump said at a news conference.



I also read that the case is going to the grand jury...

[Pete Bondurant]

This fellow, Zimmerman...he simply wanted to kill a negro. As much as many of us may understand or sympathise with him, it is not possible in this day and age to just kill any negro. I mean, it isn't 1915. Perhaps this young fellow taunted him, referring to Mr. Zimmerman as a "rent a cop" or some such thing...then Mr. Zimmerman, enraged...shot the boy. This is my theory.

[malq]

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20...rney-announces

"I share in the desire of the family and the community to accurately collect and evaluate all the facts surrounding the tragic death of Trayvon Martin," Wolfinger said in a news release. "The public is entitled to no less than a thorough, deliberate, and just review of the facts. We intend to honor that commitment."

And that's exactly what they should be doing. The grand jury can decide if there is enough evidence. I love all the drama the lawyer is creating, he is working the media pretty good.

[gee]

Truthfully this sounds like an over zealous neighborhood watch guy. Definitely profiling and I don't believe for one minute that this was self defense. Just the fact that the dispatch told him to leave the kid alone and wait for a policeman is enough said in my book.

[CbabyRKO]

Idk if this is true or not I haven't had a chance to check it out for real but I heard that GZ was trying to claim disability after his "fight" with Travyon. Like I said Idk if its true but it could be. I'm gonna go check this out just figured I should ask here first coz you guys are masters at finding good info.

Ok so dumb me listening to stuff I know is dumb. Checked around and found nothing about him claiming disability after this debacle. However I did find that a few years back he got into an altercation with a police officer but it was expunged from his record which allowed him to have a CCW permit. Now I know why he isn't a cop and just aspires to be one or whatever.

[Dakota Valkyrie]

Does Florida law let killers go free?

The legal question at the heart of the case involves Florida's so-called "stand your ground" law, which the legislature passed, at the behest of the National Rifle Association, in 2005. Before that time, Florida law resembled that of most other states; during confrontations, individuals had a duty to retreat rather than to respond to provocations. Under the new law, a person is allowed to use deadly force if he is in a place he has a right to be and feels reasonably threatened with serious harm.

In this case, then, the question is whether Zimmerman was in such a place and felt reasonably threatened. The 911 operator told Zimmerman to keep his distance from Martin, but Zimmerman had a right to be on the street. That's where neighborhood watch volunteers work.

Clearly, the question at the heart of the case is whether Zimmerman reasonably felt threatened. On this issue, the evidence currently seems murky. There appears to have been some sort of confrontation between Zimmerman and Martin. Police found Zimmerman with an injury to his head. Most important -- and most tragic -- the police will hear only one side of the story about this confrontation. Trayvon is not around to tell his story. The continuing investigation will surely focus on finding other witnesses.

The facts of this case show why the "stand your ground" law is so important. The law focuses on the subjective understanding of the shooter. Was his understanding of the situation "reasonable"? Ultimately, that would be a question for the jury to decide, but it still gives a lot of deference to the perpetrator of a violent act. The new law even allows a disproportionate response; if someone comes at you with a fist, you can reply with a gun.

In light of the shift in the law, it's not surprising that since the law went into effect, reports of justifiable homicides have tripled, according to the Florida Department of Law Enforcement.
[...]

But this outrage, understandable though it is, might be directed somewhere else as well. The Florida legislators who voted for the "stand your ground" law -- and Gov. Jeb Bush, who signed it -- have something to answer for as well.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/20/opinio...tin/index.html

[gee]

n light of the shift in the law, it's not surprising that since the law went into effect, reports of justifiable homicides have tripled, according to the Florida Department of Law Enforcement.

That is a strong statement! The stand your ground law seems to be flawed. I am still not sure how this guy will be able to apply self defense to situation where he choose to get out of his car(even as he was instructed not to) and confront Trevyon.

[TheMorningStar]

He was not told or instructed not to get out of the car. All they said to him was ,"We don't need you to do that.".

[gee]

Ok so still he took upon himself to confront Trevyon. Who was a black kid walking down the street talking on his phone. These actions warranted Zimmerman to stop the kid and confront him? I don't believe Police have ever encouraged Neighborhood watch folks to be hands on. As a matter a fact it is the opposite they are encouraged to watch and report.

[TheMorningStar]

I'm not defending this assclown. I'm only pointing out that if this goes to trial the prosecution cannot say, "He was told not to get out of the car.".

[Dakota Valkyrie]

There are indications that Zimmerman may not have been an official neighborhood watchman, however. In a statement, the National Sheriffs’ Association said its Neighborhood Watch Program is to act as the “eyes and ears” within the community and that the “the alleged action of a ‘self-appointed neighborhood watchman’ last month in Sanford, Fla. significantly contradicts the principles” of the program.

“NSA has no information indicating the community where the incident occurred has ever even registered with the NSA Neighborhood Watch program,” it said.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...uiRS_blog.html

If he had been part of an official NW program, here's what official rules say:

Patrol members should be trained by law enforcement. It should be emphasized to members that they do not possess police powers and they shall not carry weapons or pursue vehicles. They should also be cautioned to alert police or deputies when encountering strange activity. Members should never confront suspicious persons who could be armed and dangerous. Patrol members can be equipped for their duties. For example, flashlights or searchlights are necessary for night patrols. Many mobile patrols use cell phones or two-way radios to contact a citizen-manned base station, which in turn contacts law enforcement officials when necessary.

http://www.usaonwatch.org/assets/pub...anual_1210.pdf

[tmdgirl]

http://news.yahoo.com/trayvon-martin...-abc-news.html

The Florida police department handling the fatal shooting of an unarmed black teen by a self-appointed neighborhood watch leader admitted to ABC News tonight that investigators missed a possible racist remark by the shooter as he spoke to police dispatchers moments before the killing.

The admission comes a day after the Justice Department announced that it has launched an investigation of the slaying of Trayvon Martin by George Zimmerman last month as a possible hate crime.

On a tape of one of Zimmerman's 911 calls the night of the shooting, he is heard saying under his breath what sounds like "f**ing coons." Seconds later he confronted Martin and after a brief scuffle shot him dead.

Zimmerman claimed self defense, and was not charged with any crime.

It's the latest in a series of possible police missteps uncovered by ABC News.

The Sanford Police Department has come under withering criticism for failing to reach out to Martin's girlfriend, who was talking to the teen on his cell phone and heard the altercation with Zimmerman take place.

Among other issues, police have been criticized for:

Withholding a batch of telling 911 calls, including the one revealing Zimmerman's possible racist remark.

Sending a narcotics detective to the scene, instead of a homicide detective, as is typical for homicides.

And failing to administer a drug and alcohol test to Zimmerman that night, which homicide investigator Rod Wheeler called a "fatal flaw in the investigation."

"The fact that Mr. Zimmerman was not given a toxicology test or breathalyzer examination is huge. Very huge," Wheeler said. He also wondered why Zimmerman's vehicle was not investigated or impounded.

The Sanford Police Department says it stands by its investigation, and that it was not race or incompetence that prevented it from arresting Zimmerman but the law.

Martin had left his father's fiance's home to buy a pack of skittles at a convenience store. On the way back he called his 16-year-old girlfriend. She was on the phone with him as he told her about a man following him.
"He said this man was watching him," the girl recounted. "So he put his hoodie on, said he lost the man. I asked Trayvon to run, and he said he was going to walk fast, I told him to run but he said was not going to run."

But the man would catch up to Trayvon, she recalled.

"Trayvon said, 'What are you following me for?' and the man said, 'What are you doing here?' Next thing I hear is somebody pushing and somebody push Trayvon, because the headset just fell," she said. "I called him again and he didn't answer the phone."

I would love to hear the 911 tapes, hope they release them. If GZ really made a racist remark on one of the calls, I can imagine the reaction of the community where this occurred.

[Dakota Valkyrie]

I would love to hear the 911 tapes, hope they release them. If GZ really made a racist remark on one of the calls, I can imagine the reaction of the community where this occurred.

They released them last week. See post #30 on page one of this thread for links.

Throughout the day, people on social media websites began reporting that they heard the racial slur; however, others said they don't believe that it was an offensive comment.

WFTV had an audio expert listen to the call, and determined that the word said was "punks."

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/state-...y-shoot/nLX9c/

13 second excerpt of the audio that has Zimmerman saying something under his breath: http://www.wftv.com/videos/news/orig...xplicit/vGbyc/

[tmdgirl]

They released them last week. See post #30 on page one of this thread for links.

According to that article, there are 911 calls that were withheld...are they the same calls?

WFTV had an audio expert listen to the call, and determined that the word said was "punks."

"punks seems a far cry from "f***in coon"....did he say punkin coons??

[Dakota Valkyrie]

According to that article, there are 911 calls that were withheld...are they the same calls?

They released something like 8 calls. The one in question is there. I have no clue if there were any withheld.

"punks seems a far cry from "f***in coon"....did he say punkin coons??

In the short clip linked above, it sounds like "fucking punks" to me but what do I know?

[malq]

They released something like 8 calls. The one in question is there. I have no clue if there were any withheld.


In the short clip linked above, it sounds like "fucking punks" to me but what do I know?

I listened to it 4 times. it sure does sound like fucking punks and not fucking coons. Does anyone else hear coons?

Dakota, just springing off your post not referencing it other than coon.
This is spin. All this fluff means nothing unless it comes down to analyzing his character. This has no bearing on the law and the particular circumstances right before he fired. It's pretty clear that Florida's law leaves it pretty open to be able to defend yourself.
proving he did not feel his life was in danger, will be just as difficult as proving it was.
the stand your ground law is not that unique to other states. Most states, you have a right to justifiable homicide, even by fist.
Of course it is subjective and on a case by case basis,
But generally

a killing without evil or criminal intent, for which there can be no blame, such as self-defense to protect oneself or to protect another, or the shooting by a law enforcement officer in fulfilling his/her duties. This is not to be confused with a crime of passion or claim of diminished capacity which refer to defenses aimed at reducing the penalty or degree of crime.

Specifically,

JUSTIFIABLE HOMICIDE. That which is committed with the intention to kill, or to do a grievous bodily injury, under circumstances which the law holds sufficient to exculpate the person who commits it.
2. It is justifiable, 1. When a judge or other magistrate acts in obedience to the law. 2. When a ministerial officer acts in obedience to a lawful warrant, issued by a competent tribunal. 3. When a subaltern officer, or soldier, kills in obedience to the lawful commands of his superior. 4. When the party kills in lawful self-defence.
3.-1. A judge who, in pursuance of his duty, pronounces sentence of death, is not guilty of homicide; for it is evident, that as the law prescribes the punishment of death for certain offences, it must protect those who are entrusted with its execution. A judge, therefore, who pronounces sentence of death, in a legal manner, on a legal indictment, legally brought before him, for a capital offence committed within his jurisdiction, after a lawful trial and conviction, of the defendant, is guilty of no offence.
4.-2. Magistrates, or other officers entrusted with the preservation of the public peace, are justified in committing homicide, or giving orders which lead to it, if the excesses of a riotous assembly cannot be otherwise be repressed.
5-2. An officer entrusted with a legal warrant, criminal or civil, and lawfully commanded by a competent tribunal to execute it, will be justified in committing homicide, if, in the course of advancing to discharge his duty, he be brought into such perils that, without doing so, he cannot either save his life, or discharge the duty which he is commanded by the warrant to perform. And when the warrant commands him to put a criminal to death, he is justified in obeying it.
6.-3. A soldier on duty is justified in committing homicide, in obedience to the command of his officer, unless the command was something plainly unlawful.
7.-4. A private individual will, in many cases, be justified in committing homicide, while acting in self-defence.

A Law Dictionary, Adapted to the Constitution and Laws of the United States. By John Bouvier. Published 1856
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedicti...iable+homicide
Apparently it can be modified by the state.

I know everyone is pissed off because this jackass put himself in this situation and killed a 17 year old black boy.
All that really matters is if he was within the letter of the law and that is for a jury to decide. for all practical purposes, his argument is the intention was not to kill him and when attacked, he shot in self defense, apparently within the law.
Someone has to decide if it was within the law, AGAIN! This time all the facts should be carefully considered while ignoring the spinners who are throwing in red herrings like " Fucking coons." I will retract that if it sounds like fucking coons to anyone else. Anyone>? Anyone?

[AngelFire]

I listened to it about 5 times and I clearly heard fucking punks, and not coons. Trust me I don't care for this asshole but I heard punks and not coons.

[malq]

Florida case reignites debate over stand-your-ground laws
Interesting facts about the "Stand your ground' laws across the country. 21 states have the same law.
Ya know, part of the confusion is it's not uniform between states. Some do authorized deadly force without retreat outside your home and some don't. lesson here is if you want to kill someone, go to one of these states, make sure no one is looking and shoot to kill. Then claim you were attacked.

You could look at it this way too. It never hurts to look at the other side of things.

Violent crime in Florida has dropped since its implementation. "As public policy, it is fulfilling its purpose and working well. The perpetrators know everyone has the right to defend themselves. …

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...8/1?csp=34news

[Rockin Ma]

The tragic killing of Florida teenager Trayvon Martin has put a spotlight on the state's open-ended "Stand Your Ground" law, which allows people to defend themselves with deadly force as long as they "reasonably believe" it is necessary to protect themselves.

The shooting death of Martin, a 17-year-old high school student, at the hands of an armed, self-appointed crime watch volunteer has put a spotlight on the contentious law. George Zimmerman, the man who pulled the trigger, claims he was acting in self-defense when he forced to kill the unarmed teenager. Recent developments --including the release of a phone call Martin made to friend only minutes before his death - make it clear the teenager did not pose a violent threat to Zimmerman, calling public attention to a law that clears a suspect from prosecution if the state does not find evidence to dispute their claim of self-defense.

1. Policy Is An Expansion Oof Gun Law Authorizing Justifiable Use Of Force in Home


Florida essentially became a "shoot first" state in 2005, when former Gov. Jeb Bush signed the legislation into law. At the time Bush said he supported the measure because when faced with a serious threat to one's life, "to have to retreat and put yourself in a very precarious position defies common sense."

The law extends what has been called the Castle Doctrine, which asserts that a person has the right to defend his or her home with deadly force if they are in "fear of great bodily injury." Unlike similar laws across the country, the Florida provision does not require residents to retreat before using lethal force -- whether it be with a gun, knife or baseball bat -- against a home intruder, a concept that is based off the English common-law idea that an individual's home is their "castle."

With the Stand Your Ground law, a person no longer needs to prove that they feared for their safety, only that the individual they either injured or killed -- even those who are unarmed -- had forcefully and unlawfully intruded. Unlike the initial Castle Doctrine, the newer law extends the principle to vehicles and public places and also does away with an earlier requirement that said a person attacked in a public place must retreat if it is a viable option.

Now, that same person, in the law's words, "has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force." Plus, it is now forbidden to arrest, detain or prosecute an individual deemed to be protected by the policy.

2. Justifiable Homicide Rates Have Tripled Since Passage

Florida averaged 12 deaths by "justifiable" homicide in the four years -- 2000 to 2004 -- preceding the passage of Stand Your Ground, according to the Florida Department of Law Enforcement. Afterwards, the number of "justifiable" deaths almost tripled to an average of 35 per year between 2005 and 2010.

"The Legislature needs to take a look at Stand Your Ground," Florida Sen. Oscar Braynon, D-Miami Gardens, recently told The Miami Herald. "This is a perfect case of where it goes awry. This could only be the beginning of more problems down the road. It has unintended consequences."

The self-defense law has been invoked in at least 93 cases involving 65 deaths, according to a review from the St. Petersburg Times, which added that in a majority of cases the defendant's use of force was excused by prosecutors and the courts.

For his part, Gov. Rick Scott has not gone as far as denouncing the law, although he told reporters that that he's "hopeful that the Legislature would be interested in taking that up" if there is something about the law that should be altered or discussed.

While Florida currently imposes a three-day waiting period on handgun purchases and inflicts liability on individuas who make their firearms accessible to children, the state still has relatively loose gun control regulations. For instance, Florida does not require firearm dealers to obtain state licenses, does not mandate firearm registration, does not limit the number of guns that may be purchased at one point, and does not regulate the sale of assault weapons, 50 caliber rifles or large capacities of ammunition magazines, according to the Legal Community Against Violence.

3. Law Enforcement Officials Opposed Stand Your Ground

Prosecutors across the state opposed Stand Your Ground before it was enacted in October 2005, arguing that it allows people to use deadly force when it should not be used, usually without consequence.

In the aftermath of its passage, the Orlando Sentinel reports that some Orlando-area police agencies stopped investigating shootings involving self-defense claims, instead referring them directly to state prosecutors since they usually did not have grounds to arrest individuals who could be protected under Stand Your Ground.

Before the law took effect, former Miami Police Chief John Timoney made an ominous prediction about its potential consequences.

"Whether it's trick-or-treaters or kids playing in the yard of someone who doesn't want them there or some drunk guy stumbling into the wrong house you're encouraging people to possibly use deadly physical force where it shouldn't be used," Timoney told The New York Times.

4. Several States Have Adopted Similar, NRA-Advocated, Laws

At least 16 states have adopted similar legislation following the passage of Florida's Stand Your Ground, mostly centered in Southern and Midwestern regions. The law has been heavily advocated by the National Rifle Association, which lobbied extensively for its passage, at one point saying it put the law "on the side of law-abiding citizens."

In 2010, when the law had already resulted in some high-profile deaths and injuries, the NRA's Florida lobbyist Marion Hammer told the Tampa Bay Times the measure is needed to protect lawful citizens from "unwarranted" arrests, arguing it simply gives people the right to protect themselves.

In a statement responding to the Trayvon Martin's death, Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence President Dan Gross said the tragedy is representative of the NRA's "vision for America."

"The NRA wants us to be a nation without any gun laws, a nation where just about anybody can get a gun and take it anywhere," Gross said. "Their leaders and spokespeople use fear, paranoia and misleading notions of self-defense to justify flooding our streets with armed and violent people, and the result is more tragedies like Trayvon's."

5. No Federal Law on Record Restricts the Policy

Although there are a handful of federal gun control laws on the books, there currently is no national law that strictly forbids the self-defense justification of Stand Your Ground.

In fact, there is no federal law generally prohibiting the carrying of firearms by U.S. citizens for protection or other lawful purposes, aside from the limited exceptions outlined in the Federal Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1990. Only two regions -- Illinois and Washington, D.C -- prohibit individuals from carrying guns on their person. However, the open carrying of firearms without a licensing requirement is legal in 31 states, although some of those states require licenses for the carrying of concealed weapons.

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/3176...-explained.htm

[penelopejo]

I'm sorry, but I'd have to side with the dead kid on this one. I've had the experience of being followed by a vehicle as I was walking down the street. It is scary as fuck and you try and pretend they are not there while looking for escape routes in case if something happens. You speed up your pace and hope someone is outside so you can get their attention.

We are taught growing up to be wary of people in cars in situations like this. We are taught that we are to fight back if someone tries to kidnap you. For all this kid knew, he was being kidnapped at gunpoint. I would've fought back as well. I am not going to be stolen without a fight.

It makes me sick that there is a possibility this guy will get away with this murder because of the "stand your ground" law.

[Whisper]

Embattled Fla. police chief steps down temporarily

SANFORD, Fla. — The embattled police chief at the center of a fatal neighborhood watch shooting temporarily stepped down Thursday, saying he had become a distraction to the investigation.
[...]

http://www.ajc.com/news/nation-world...f-1395003.html


havent posted in this thread b/c it leaves me in tears but the police chief has stepped down
Will likely be fired according to some CNN people have to wait and see

[Dakota Valkyrie]

Siding with the dead kid, knowing that Zimmerman is nothing more than a murderous vigilante, and jumping up and down about the wrongness of all this has LITTLE to do with the laws of Florida. The police made a decision based on that law. The legal minds of the Seminole County DA's office opted not to charge and turned it over to a grand jury to see if they can decide. Even the FBI, Justice Department, Florida Attorney General, and whoever else has been called in are NOT making a call on this without investigation.

I see no problem with letting people do their job. I hope they can piece it together in a way that will make everyone except Zimmerman happy. Calling for heads of those who followed the law is silly.

I wonder why there isn't a huge groundswell to get the "Stand Your Ground" law changed. That seems like a good direction while they wait the outcome. Because all hell is going to break loose if the "powers that be" side with the law.

[CbabyRKO]

I'm sure after this cluster fuck the people of Florida are going to want to see a change in this "stand your ground law." If not then the people of Florida are as dumb as I thought.
Even in Texas we are pretty liberal when it comes to gun ownership and the rights of those who feel the need to use deadly force when it comes to protecting themselves yet I doubt a law like this would be passed becoz people are smart enough to know that it could be potentialy abused. This was an unarmed 17y/o kid who did nothing wrong. Forget that he was black.

All he was doing was walking home from the store with snacks for his little brother when GZ saw him and just assumed becoz he was walking slow in the rain he was up to no good. That alone should make people suspicious of Zimmerman and his motives behind shooting this kid.

Also if he was truly a neighborhood watch Captain then he'd follow the rules and wouldn't be carrying a handgun wouldn't have pursued Travyon and damn sure wouldn't have gotten into a confrontation with him.
Its crap like this that makes people keep their kids in doors under lock and key. No one should be afraid too walk in their neighborhood for fear of being seen as a criminal, but thats whats gonna happen if GZ is able to get away with his self defense claim. At least thats my opinion anyway.

[Whisper]

Siding with the dead kid, knowing that Zimmerman is nothing more than a murderous vigilante, and jumping up and down about the wrongness of all this has LITTLE to do with the laws of Florida. The police made a decision based on that law. The legal minds of the Seminole County DA's office opted not to charge and turned it over to a grand jury to see if they can decide. Even the FBI, Justice Department, Florida Attorney General, and whoever else has been called in are NOT making a call on this without investigation.

I see no problem with letting people do their job. I hope they can piece it together in a way that will make everyone except Zimmerman happy. Calling for heads of those who followed the law is silly.

I wonder why there isn't a huge groundswell to get the "Stand Your Ground" law changed. That seems like a good direction while they wait the outcome. Because all hell is going to break loose if the "powers that be" side with the law.

I saw this morning they are trying to change that law
I saw on news lastnight they showed 2 men there that flat out murdered someone but walked b.c of that law
So now in Detroit (or Michigan I guess) they have that law also and have started ways to remove it b/c of Treyvons murder
And to me its murder all the way
That fat fucks got a legal record too I saw this afternoon for beating his ex
Fucking heartbreaking to see a good kid that wasnt into trouble gunned down by a wanna be fat fuck that failed at becoming a cop

[Whisper]

Trayvon Martin killing sparks debate over ‘Stand Your Ground’ laws in 21 states
http://www.theprovince.com/news/Tray...#ixzz1pt01LwLf

[golanvern]

The way I read it, the law in Florida actually states the following:

JUSTIFIABLE HOMICIDE. That which is committed with the intention to kill, or to do a grievous bodily injury, under circumstances which the law holds sufficient to exculpate the person who commits it.
2. It is justifiable, 1. When a judge or other magistrate acts in obedience to the law. 2. When a ministerial officer acts in obedience to a lawful warrant, issued by a competent tribunal. 3. When a subaltern officer, or soldier, kills in obedience to the lawful commands of his superior. 4. When the party kills in lawful self-defence.
3.-1. A judge who, in pursuance of his duty, pronounces sentence of death, is not guilty of homicide; for it is evident, that as the law prescribes the punishment of death for certain offences, it must protect those who are entrusted with its execution. A judge, therefore, who pronounces sentence of death, in a legal manner, on a legal indictment, legally brought before him, for a capital offence committed within his jurisdiction, after a lawful trial and conviction, of the defendant, is guilty of no offence.
4.-2. Magistrates, or other officers entrusted with the preservation of the public peace, are justified in committing homicide, or giving orders which lead to it, if the excesses of a riotous assembly cannot be otherwise be repressed.
5-2. An officer entrusted with a legal warrant, criminal or civil, and lawfully commanded by a competent tribunal to execute it, will be justified in committing homicide, if, in the course of advancing to discharge his duty, he be brought into such perils that, without doing so, he cannot either save his life, or discharge the duty which he is commanded by the warrant to perform. And when the warrant commands him to put a criminal to death, he is justified in obeying it.
6.-3. A soldier on duty is justified in committing homicide, in obedience to the command of his officer, unless the command was something plainly unlawful.
7.-4. A private individual will, in many cases, be justified in committing homicide, while acting in self-defence.

It clearly states a caveat of "in many cases"; it does not state "in all cases". So, on with the investigation, but there's nothing above that rules out charging this guy with murder even if he believed it to be self-defense. That's what juries get to decide.

Imagine now the shoe is on the other foot: It's too bad Trayvon wasn't carrying a weapon because he would have be justified in shooting the man who killed him. After all, it was Trayvon who was pursued on that dark, rainy night by an adult who followed him in a vehicle then continued to follow him on foot - who was eventually pursued and caught by that individual holding the gun. Trayvon clearly had the right to defend himself from this unknown and armed pursuer as he was, undoubtedly in fear for his life. Trayvon had the right to fight back when the asshat caught up with him - to defend himself.

How the hell anyone can twist that into the pursuer being allowed to pursue, attack unprovoked and then kill a target who simply defended himself against the unprovoked attack initiated by the pursuer is beyond me.

Situation was 100% preventable by the attacker.

[malq]

You know what bothers me about this case more than the fact this guy may walk?
It's the publics reaction regarding race. They are trying so hard to find a racial angle in a case that is clearly an overzealous moron abusing the self defense angle. Zimmerman would have done this with anyone, white black or North Korean. He simply wanted to be a big man and things went wrong.

The NAACP and the militant black groups threatening vigilante justice, the sickening spin from, like "fucking coons", make it so hard to trust a claim of racism. Anyone who is trying to make it racial from what we have seen so far is really doing the blacks a dis-service. It appears that an extremely large % of the people following this in the world, want this to be a hate crime so bad, they willing to present it as racism any way they can.

[golanvern]

I agree on the race thing; I don't think it plays a part. I believe the recording says, "fucking punks".

What this should be about is deciding who was the actual individual who needed to defend himself in this situation. The kid. The kid did nothing to place himself in this situation. The aggressor on the other hand, pursued, provoked, shot and killed an individual who was only rightfully defending himself from that unprovoked attack. The child was doing nothing wrong, was not in the act of committing a crime; he simply "looked" suspicious.

If they want to debate "rights to self defense", then they can NOT neglect to consider that a kid is dead only because he was actually the one defending himself when he was killed.

[Dakota Valkyrie]

In The "Gunshine State", even if the cops had arrested Zimmerman, it looks like it may not have mattered:

As critics assail Florida’s “Stand Your Ground” law in the wake of the killing of an unarmed Miami Gardens teen in Sanford, a Miami-Dade judge on Wednesday cited the law in tossing out the case of a man who chased down a suspected burglar and stabbed him to death.

Greyston Garcia was charged with second-degree murder in the slaying of Pedro Roteta, 26, whom he chased for more than a block before stabbing the man.

The case illustrates the difficulty police and prosecutors statewide have experienced since the 2005 law eliminated a citizen’s duty to retreat in the face of danger, putting the burden on a judge, not a jury, to decide whether the accused is immune from prosecution.
[...]

Bloom granted Garcia, 25, immunity under the 2005 law after she decided that his testimony about self-defense was credible. The judge did not issue a written ruling, but is expected to do so in the next few days.

The Miami-Dade State Attorney’s Office is likely to appeal the judge’s ruling. Garcia’s defense attorney could not be reached for comment Wednesday.

The 2005 law eliminated a citizen’s duty to retreat when attacked, leading critics to say the statute fosters vigilante justice and allows criminals to get away with murder on a claim of self-defense.
[...]

The incident took place on Jan. 25, when Roteta and another youth were behind Garcia’s apartment at 201 SW 18th Ct. According to police, Roteta was stealing Garcia’s truck radio.

Garcia, alerted by a roommate, grabbed a large knife and ran downstairs. He chased Roteta, then stabbed him in a confrontation that lasted less than a minute, according to court documents.

The stabbing was caught on video. Roteta was carrying a bag filled with three stolen radios, but no weapon other than a pocketknife, which was unopened in his pocket and which police said he never brandished.

After initially denying involvement in the man’s death, Garcia admitted to homicide detectives that he attacked Roteta even though “he actually never saw a weapon.”

Garcia claimed Roteta made a move that he interpreted as a move to stab him — so he struck first.

Prosecutors and police have argued since the Stand Your Ground law passed that it would give vigilantes free rein to strike first and ask questions later.

In the Garcia case, prosecutors argued that the law did not apply because the truck was not “occupied” and the suspected burglar had run away.

Once Roteta ran off, prosecutor Jennie Conklin wrote in a motion, Garcia “no longer needed to use deadly force to protect his home or unoccupied vehicle.”

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/2...#storylink=cpy

[Ladyeridan]

Something that is REALLY bothering me that I just read.... Apparently Trayvon sat for THREE DAYS in the morgue as a John Doe because nobody thought to check the neighborhood for missing kids. This police force completely screwed the pooch.