Newborn Dies After Contracting Herpes From Rabbi’s Mouth

**malq** · March 5th, 2012, 01:44 AM

A two-week old boy died at a Brooklyn hospital in September after contracting herpes through a religious circumcision ritual that ignited controversy in 2005 after another infant died, the Daily News has learned.

Not actual baby that dies, this is a stuntpenis

The unidentified infant died Sept. 28, 2011, at Maimonides Hospital, according to a spokeswoman for the city Medical Examiner, who confirmed the death after a News inquiry.

The cause of death was listed as “disseminated herpes simplex virus Type 1, complicating ritual circumcision with oral suction.”

It’s unclear who performed the circumcision.
In 2004, city health officials revealed that a baby boy died after a circumcision carried out by a Rockland County rabbi who specializes in the centuries-old, ultra-Orthodox ritual known as metzizah b’ peh. Under the practice, the rabbi or mohel removes blood from the wound with his mouth — a practice city health officials have criticized, saying it carried “inherent risks” for babies.

Actual photo of a metzizah b’ peh being performed.
In 2004, three infants circumcised by Rabbi Yitzchok Fischer were determined to have contracted herpes, city officials said.Among them were twins circumcised in October 2004 after Fischer performed the religious ceremony known as a bris.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/...#ixzz1oDVjiNdl

Man there is some hard core antisemtic stuff out there, people are calling Jews pedos and dirty with herpes and say they should die because of this.
I am not being antisemetic, I do find it extremely controversial and antiquated. I am all for someone preserving their ancient ways, but seriously. How can they not see that this is bad?

**CbabyRKO** · March 5th, 2012, 02:02 AM

Oh wow! Can rabbis marry? Have sex? I'm not all up on Jewish customs and shit but...if they can and he is then someones in deep shit. Well he's already in deep shit considering he killed a baby with his nasty mouth! You would think he would be a bit more...smart as too he gets his rocks off with! Oh gag I should NOT have read this before bed :/

**Shadow** · March 5th, 2012, 04:37 AM

I have to admit, I'm scratching my head for an explanation on this one. It is true that per Jewish tradition that baby boys are given a "bris" aka 'circumcision' at 8 days after birth. I did not know that it also included an oral 'removal' of the blood at the wound site... Until I read this website: http://www.circlist.com/rites/bris.html. It specifically states that there is some controversy in how this should be done. I will conclude that there are sects of Judaism that claim this is the way God intended it to be done, and others that site health reasons as being a reason *not* to do it this way.

That said, I will address an earlier question, Yes, Rabbis are allowed to married. My husband's cousin is married to a Rabbi and together they have A LOT of children. Their sons are ALL Rabbis, with the exception of one. As a traditional Orthodox Jewish family, I would assume they observe all rules set forth by their Torah. This family by the way, as I understand it, are direct descendants of Abraham.

I can't even imagine how the families must feel about this. I do think the families who've come to this particular Rabbi, might've been warned that they might seek counsel and performance of bris elsewhere.

~shadow

**Marv** · March 5th, 2012, 05:09 AM

Disgusting practice. It may well be 'traditional', but it is disgusting - and obviously carries some danger. It should be stopped. Who in their right mind could EVER find this acceptable and want it performed on their child? Sick.

**Aena** · March 5th, 2012, 08:01 AM

That is one job I would never want to have. Sucking a newborns penis to remove blood, that is just fucking gross.

**CbabyRKO** · March 5th, 2012, 09:11 AM

Thanks @ceisdgil for answering my question I was very curious as to that. Well with that being said if he is married he is in serious shit! On top of all the other shit he in.

**Aena** · March 5th, 2012, 09:16 AM

Originally Posted by CbabyRKO

Thanks @ceisdgil for answering my question I was very curious as to that. Well with that being said if he is married he is in serious shit! On top of all the other shit he in.

Why would him being married mean he is in deeper shit? If this is really a religious practice I am sure his wife knows he does it.

**CbabyRKO** · March 5th, 2012, 09:51 AM

@Aena well..unless he got the Herpes from his wife I'd say he's in deep shit. I mean I doubt he caught herpes from doing this procedure so the only logical answer is he caught the disease doing something he wasn't supposed to. Altho I could be wrong and he got it some other way...

**Aena** · March 5th, 2012, 10:01 AM

@CbabyRKO yeah he will have to explain that to his wife. Unless he really did get it from doing this to another baby, herpes can be transferred from mother to child, but for some reason I am doubting that's how he got it.

**Dakota Valkyrie** · March 5th, 2012, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by CbabyRKO

@Aena well..unless he got the Herpes from his wife I'd say he's in deep shit. I mean I doubt he caught herpes from doing this procedure so the only logical answer is he caught the disease doing something he wasn't supposed to. Altho I could be wrong and he got it some other way...

There are different types of herpes. This case is Type 1. Type 2 is the one commonly transmitted sexually. Type 1 is the "cold sore" type although can also be sexually transmitted.

The herpes simplex virus affects only humans. Mouth sores most commonly occur in children aged 1-2 years, but they can affect people at any age and any time of the year.

People contract herpes by touching infected saliva, mucous membranes, or skin. Because the virus is highly contagious, most people have been infected by at least 1 herpes subtype before adulthood.
[...]

Herpes simplex is a DNA virus that causes sores in and around your mouth. Two herpes subtypes may cause these sores.

Herpes simplex virus, type 1 or herpes-1, which causes 80% of cases of oral herpes infections

Herpes simplex virus, type 2 or herpes-2, which causes the rest

http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/oral-herpes

**CbabyRKO** · March 5th, 2012, 10:26 AM

@Dakota Valkyrie thanks for clearing that up for me lol. Im using my phone and its a pain when it comes to linked news site which offers more info than what is provided here. If this doesn't stop them from performing this ritual then idk what will. A cold sore FFS and now a baby is dead.

**malq** · March 5th, 2012, 10:57 AM

Originally Posted by Dakota Valkyrie

There are different types of herpes. This case is Type 1. Type 2 is the one commonly transmitted sexually. Type 1 is the "cold sore" type although can also be sexually transmitted.

http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/oral-herpes

what???

most people have been infected by at least 1 herpes subtype before adulthood.

what???

That doesn't make me very happy. That means that everyone in this thread have herpes, Except me. That leaves you poor bastards! Get tested!!

Seriously, wouldn't I know?? I can't believe I am asking that.

**Dakota Valkyrie** · March 5th, 2012, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by malq

That doesn't make me very happy. That means that everyone in this thread have herpes, Except me. That leaves you poor bastards! Get tested!!

Herpes cannot be spread through threadication. You are safe from our herpes.

Originally Posted by malq

Seriously, wouldn't I know?? I can't believe I am asking that.

No, you may not know. According to my link:

After the herpes virus infects you, it has a rather unique ability to proceed to 3 stages.

Primary infection: The virus enters your skin or mucous membrane and reproduces.
During this stage, oral sores and other symptoms, such as fever, may develop.

The virus may not cause any sores and symptoms. You may not know that you have it. This is called asymptomatic infection.

Asymptomatic infection occurs twice as often as the disease with symptoms.

Latency: From the infected site, the virus moves to a mass of nervous tissue in your spine called the dorsal root ganglion. There the virus reproduces again and becomes inactive.

Recurrence: When you encounter certain stresses, emotional or physical, the virus may reactivate and cause new sores and symptoms.

**Aena** · March 5th, 2012, 11:04 AM

Wow, nice to know I have had herpes and didn't know it LOL thanks @Dakota Valkyrie

**nopatience** · March 5th, 2012, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by malq

what???

what???

That doesn't make me very happy. That means that everyone in this thread have herpes, Except me. That leaves you poor bastards! Get tested!!

Seriously, wouldn't I know?? I can't believe I am asking that.

That made me laugh!

Seriously though, I find this incredibly disturbing. Herpes is not the only thing someone can pass on like this. HIV/AIDS can be passed through saliva. It's not common, but it can happen. I get this is a normal form of their religion and I don't even try to understand it or pretend I care enough to, but I do think that when it starts being a hazard to a newborn, it should raise red flags and be reevaluated.

There are some sick ass people out there and I, for one, would not want anyone's mouth (or head) on or even near my baby's genitals for ANY reason. This was the first story I had read this morning. Considering I am due to have a new baby boy in 3 months, it's left me quite queasy.

**malq** · March 5th, 2012, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by Dakota Valkyrie

Herpes cannot be spread through threadication. You are safe from our herpes.

I aint buyin' it. I am wearing my lambskin font today

**Dakota Valkyrie** · March 5th, 2012, 11:12 AM

Originally Posted by malq

I aint buyin' it. I am wearing my lambskin font today

You look pretty in pink.

**malq** · March 5th, 2012, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by nopatience

That made me laugh!
I get this is a normal form of their religion and I don't even try to understand it or pretend I care enough to, but I do think that when it starts being a hazard to a newborn, it should raise red flags and be reevaluated.

.

i know, I thought that too, but that brings up a few points. I think the Jews were around way before Tammy Faye Baker. kinda hard to tell them they are wrong. I suspect this is not that common in the Jewish arena in modern times. I am pretty ignorant about Jewish culture though.
Also, an established religion who is gonna say no? Not the government. There are fairly defined and tested separation of church and state issues. how would you approach doing something about this? Do we want the government telling us what is best for us?

**malq** · March 5th, 2012, 11:17 AM

Originally Posted by Dakota Valkyrie

You look pretty in pink.

I tried white, that didnt work so well. ETA: that is flesh to you..:P

**Aena** · March 5th, 2012, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by malq

i know, I thought that too, but that brings up a few points. I think the Jews were around way before Tammy Faye Baker. kinda hard to tell them they are wrong. I suspect this is not that common in the Jewish arena in modern times. I am pretty ignorant about Jewish culture though.
Also, an established religion who is gonna say no? Not the government. There are fairly defined and tested separation of church and state issues. how would you approach doing something about this? Do we want the government telling us what is best for us?

The government already has too much control over our lives. I am tired of the government telling me what I can or cannot do, what is safe or not safe. I say we just all do what we want and let idiots die from doing stupid things to themselves. The only thing the government should control are rapists, child molesters and murderers.

**Dakota Valkyrie** · March 5th, 2012, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by malq

I tried white, that didnt work so well. ETA: that is flesh to you..:P

Technically, it's "Light Salmon". Wiki says "Salmon is a range of pale pinkish-orange to light pink colors, named after the color of salmon flesh."

You look pretty in dead fish flesh.

**nopatience** · March 5th, 2012, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by malq

i know, I thought that too, but that brings up a few points. I think the Jews were around way before Tammy Faye Baker. kinda hard to tell them they are wrong. I suspect this is not that common in the Jewish arena in modern times. I am pretty ignorant about Jewish culture though.
Also, an established religion who is gonna say no? Not the government. There are fairly defined and tested separation of church and state issues. how would you approach doing something about this? Do we want the government telling us what is best for us?

Not the government - they dictate too much now, but the "higher ups" of their religion should. It's not unheard of for ancient practices to be 'tweaked' to be more properly accepted nowadays. When someone is putting a newborn at risk of contracting a disease by an ancient practice, it should require some sort of adjustment. Granted I'm not Jewish, but this whole practice makes me gag. Seriously, how can someone think this is ok?! IMO, it's nothing shy of a society accepted form of pedophilia (sp?).

**Shadow** · March 5th, 2012, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by nopatience

Not the government - they dictate too much now, but the "higher ups" of their religion should. It's not unheard of for ancient practices to be 'tweaked' to be more properly accepted nowadays. When someone is putting a newborn at risk of contracting a disease by an ancient practice, it should require some sort of adjustment. Granted I'm not Jewish, but this whole practice makes me gag. Seriously, how can someone think this is ok?! IMO, it's nothing shy of a society accepted form of pedophilia (sp?).

pe·do·phil·i·a/ˌpedəˈfilēə/
Noun:
Sexual feelings directed toward children.
Synonyms:
paedophilia

According to the definition of pedophilia this does not qualify.

I married into a Jewish family and I will tell you this... If *any* of the men in this family thought the Mohel or Rabbi were doing something unsavory to their child, the man would lose his life. Simply put, they would not allow it to happen. As I understand it, the contemporary way of drawing blood from the wound is by suction from equipment, not from using one's mouth.

One additional thought: just because you view something as being gross, or ugly or inappropriate does not mean you are correct. It means you are fortunate to live in a country where you can openly share your opinions without fear or reprimand.

~shadow

**nopatience** · March 5th, 2012, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by ceisdsgil

pe·do·phil·i·a/ˌpedəˈfilēə/
Noun:
Sexual feelings directed toward children.
Synonyms:
paedophilia

According to the definition of pedophilia this does not qualify.

I married into a Jewish family and I will tell you this... If *any* of the men in this family thought the Mohel or Rabbi were doing something unsavory to their child, the man would lose his life. Simply put, they would not allow it to happen. As I understand it, the contemporary way of drawing blood from the wound is by suction from equipment, not from using one's mouth.

One additional thought: just because you view something as being gross, or ugly or inappropriate does not mean you are correct. It means you are fortunate to live in a country where you can openly share your opinions without fear or reprimand.

~shadow

I am aware of the technical meaning of pedophilia, which is why I stated it was MY opinion. And you are completely misconstruing my point. I am not bashing the Jewish faith. I don't know enough about it. I have many friends who are Jewish, but it's not something we sit around and dwell on. They respect my choices as I do theirs. My point is that I do not feel there is any reason for someone's mouth to be on a child's genitalia - period.

If *any* of the men in this family thought the Mohel or Rabbi were doing something unsavory to their child, the man would lose his life. Simply put, they would not allow it to happen.

I understand this statement, but again, it is in the eyes of the beholder. I mean no disrespect to someone who is Jewish, but when there are other means available, I still find this disturbing. I never said it was correct, but it is, to me, incredibly disturbing and yes, gross.

**Obsolete** · March 5th, 2012, 01:23 PM

One additional thought: just because you view something as being gross, or ugly or inappropriate does not mean you are correct. It means you are fortunate to live in a country where you can openly share your opinions without fear or reprimand.

Agreed.

Years ago I heard about a woman who set out to ban breastfeeding because she felt it was wrong for a child to be trained to put his/her mouth on a womans breast. Obviously she was a nutcase but it just goes to show how something that can be normal and acceptable to one person, may not be normal and acceptable to another...it doesn't make it wrong though.

**malq** · March 5th, 2012, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by Obsolete

Agreed.

Years ago I heard about a woman who set out to ban breastfeeding because she felt it was wrong for a child to be trained to put his/her mouth on a womans breast. Obviously she was a nutcase but it just goes to show how something that can be normal and acceptable to one person, may not be normal and acceptable to another...it doesn't make it wrong though.

Right, my biggest fear is it might eventually be a threat to blowjobs.

**JGo555** · March 5th, 2012, 02:14 PM

When I was taking prenatal classes I was asked if I was going to circumsize the baby. I had a girl it wasn't an issue. A snob that was taking the class said that she was going to circumsize her boy's.

My hub completely forbid me to let anyone come close to his boy's saber with anything sharp. So our son is 'intact', we aren't Jewish either. I respect their traditions and all but why in the hell don't ya'll wait and ASK HIM, if he wants his dick trimmed!? What if he wants to be a pornstar? Uncut dicks are paid better!

**malq** · March 5th, 2012, 02:27 PM

Originally Posted by JGo555

When I was taking prenatal classes I was asked if I was going to circumsize the baby. I had a girl it wasn't an issue. A snob that was taking the class said that she was going to circumsize her boy's.

My hub completely forbid me to let anyone come close to his boy's saber with anything sharp. So our son is 'intact', we aren't Jewish either. I respect their traditions and all but why in the hell don't ya'll wait and ASK HIM, if he wants his dick trimmed!? What if he wants to be a pornstar? Uncut dicks are paid better!

That's another whole different subject, but I will say, if you wait until they are older, even months or a year older, it is major surgery. It is harder to heal, has a greater chance of infection, less chance of recovering the nerves that fully appreciate that awesome blowjob and will probably look funny as he gets older. My advice is if you are going to do it, do it immediately. If not, then...don't. there really is no inbetween unless medically necessary. Strictures can require a circumcision later in life.. that is when the opening for the foreskin will never be big enough to get the head out.

**Obsolete** · March 5th, 2012, 02:42 PM

Hubs and I were broke when our son was born so we couldn't afford the $150 it cost to have him snipped at birth. By the time we has saved up enough money he was 5 yrs old and it cost us over $3500. It was a full on surgery, not nearly as quick and painless as it would have been when he was a baby. To me it was never an option, he was getting clipped even if I had to scrimp and save to make sure it got done.