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Thread: "This is completely insane" Says Dad About Reaction To 4yo's Drawing

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    "This is completely insane" Says Dad About Reaction To 4yo's Drawing

    Man shocked by arrest after daughter draws picture of gun at school


    A Kitchener (Ontario, Canada) father is upset that police arrested him at his children’s’ school Wednesday, hauled him down to the station and strip-searched him, all because his four-year-old daughter drew a picture of a gun at school.

    “I’m picking up my kids and then, next thing you know, I’m locked up,” Jessie Sansone, 26, said Thursday.

    “I was in shock. This is completely insane. My daughter drew a gun on a piece of paper at school.”

    The school principal, police and child welfare officials, however, all stand by their actions. They said they had to investigate to determine whether there was a gun in Sansone’s house that children had access to.

    “From a public safety point of view, any child drawing a picture of guns and saying there’s guns in a home would warrant some further conversation with the parents and child,” said Alison Scott, executive director of Family and Children’s Services.

    Waterloo Regional Police Insp. Kevin Thaler said there was a complaint from Forest Hills public school that “a firearm was in a residence and children had access to it. We had every concern, based on this information, that children were in danger.”

    Their concern wasn’t based on the drawing alone, he said.

    Neaveh, the child who made the drawing, also made comments about it that raised more flags.


    Sansone thinks police overreacted. He didn’t find out until hours after his arrest what had actually sparked the incident.

    He said he went to the school Wednesday afternoon to pick up his three children. He was summoned to the principal’s office where three police officers were waiting. They said he was being charged with possession of a firearm.

    He was escorted from the school, handcuffed and put in the back of a cruiser.

    At the same time, other police officers went to his home, where his wife and 15-month-old child were waiting for his return.

    They made his wife come to the police station while the other three children were taken to Family and Children’s Services to be interviewed.

    “Nobody was given any explanation,” said his wife, Stephanie Squires. “I didn’t know why he was being arrested.

    “He had absolutely no idea what this was even about. I just kept telling them. ‘You’re making a mistake.’
    [...]

    He was forced to remove his clothes for a full strip search.

    Several hours later, a detective apologized and said he was being released with no charges, Sansone said.

    The detective told him that his four-year-old daughter had drawn a picture of a man holding a gun. When a teacher asked her who the man was, the girl replied, “That’s my daddy’s. He uses it to shoot bad guys and monsters.”

    “To be honest with you, I broke down,” Sansone said. “My character got put down so much. I was actually really hurt, like it could happen that easy.
    [...]

    “I just think they blew it out of proportion,’’ Squires said. “It was for absolutely nothing. They searched our house upside down and found nothing. They had the assumption he owned a firearm.

    “The way everything happened was completely unnecessary, especially since we know the school very well. I don’t understand how they came to that conclusion from a four-year-old’s drawing.’’

    Scott, of Family and Children’s Services, said the agency was obligated to investigate after getting a report from the school.

    “Our community would have an expectation if comments are made about a gun in a house, we’d be obligated to investigate that to ensure everything is safe.”

    If there’s a potential crime that’s been committed, the agency must call in police, she said

    “In the end, it may not be substantiated. There may be a reasonable explanation for why the child drew that gun. But we have to go on what gets presented to us.

    “I’m sure this was a very stressful thing for the family,” she acknowledged.

    The school principal, Steve Zack, said a staff member called child welfare officials because the law requires them to report anything involving the safety or neglect of a child.

    The agency chose to involve police
    , he said.

    “Police chose to arrest Jessie here. Nobody wants something like this to happen at any time, especially not at school. But that’s out of my hands.”
    http://www.therecord.com/news/local/...-on-gun-charge
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    Are you not allowed to own a handgun in Canada?
    "Mexican Americans don't like to just get into gang fights,
    they like flowers and music and white girls named Debbie too."

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    Quote Originally Posted by penelopejo View Post
    Are you not allowed to own a handgun in Canada?
    Not to the best of my knowledge. Hunting guns only.
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    How can they just assume the parents have guns in the home based on a fucking drawing his kid did of a gun. I used to draw animals, exotic ones because I just always loved animals but I swear we never owned a giraffe. IDIOTS
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    Oopsie. That will teach all four year olds to have an imagination...What a huge overreaction. They had to arrest him on the spot with no proof that he actually owned a hangun? Ridiculous.
    I would have written of me on my stone: I had a lover's quarrel with the world" ~R. Frost
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    She didn't just draw a gun, she told them her Daddy has a gun and uses it to shoot bad guys and monsters but I do agree that they went way overboard. They should have asked him for permission to search the home and at least give him a chance before arresting him.
    I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But much as I want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking.

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    I don't know Canadian laws, but can this guy sue?
    "We must all go through a rite of passage, and it must be physical, it must be painful, and it must leave a mark." Captain Howdy, Strangeland.

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    Over react much...... You see shit like this and then you wonder how the hell so many legitimate child abuse
    cases slip through the cracks. I would be pissed if I were the parents. Some thing is wrong!
    If I swallow anything evil, put your finger down my throat...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Valasca View Post
    I don't know Canadian laws, but can this guy sue?
    For what? And to what end? I assume that just like in the US, anyone can sue for any reason. While this IS insane, each agency involved was just "doing their job". Once the wheels are set in motion, it's pretty hard to stop the process. At least he wasn't charged and only detained for a few hours during the investigation.

    Imagine it this way... a 4yo draws a wild picture. Teacher chalks it up to a "vivid imagination" (without further questions - like no probing seemed to happen here). That night, the kid accidentally shoots herself in the head while playing with an illegal gun. Many would be shouting how no one took the "clue" and how stupid dad was for having a gun in the house with kidlets.

    Somewhere there is a middle ground where common sense lives. It makes me wonder why they didn't have it in the first place... I hope they all learned a lesson on that in light of this and some changes are implemented... without having to sue.
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    Well, I'm just thankful the tot didn't draw a death ray. The police would have probably shot the dad on sight. *smh*

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeaveMeBe View Post
    Well, I'm just thankful the tot didn't draw a death ray. The police would have probably shot the dad on sight. *smh*
    Good one! I'm still wondering what they would have done if @Mybabiesmomma had drawn a giraffe.
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    I dunno, I figure that her dad using it to "shoot bad guys and monsters" would give it away as not real....Unless the cops found those darn monsters that are all camped out in closets and under the bed, along with that gun.
    Dakota Valkyrie : You don't have FBI in Canada. It would probably be the Royal Mounted Child Porn Cadets or some other gang dressed up with cool hats that came in shooting up your pussy

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    He was forced to remove his clothes for a full strip search.
    errmm......incase he kept the gun up his ass? In which case, the kids would (hopefully) not have access to it, and so all would be well.


    If they had genuine concerns about the safety and welfare of the child, they could still have gone about this differently - like NOT arresting him in school in front of his kids, their friends, and the other parents! How about being at his house for when he got home, and then doing the search?
    Psychos do not explode when sunlight hits them, I don't give a fuck how crazy they are!

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    Wow. They took this very, very serious while thousands poor children who are ignored when they need help, are being torture in abusive hands? Ridiculous.

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    If a reaction from the schools and other public officials goes that far, it's a wonder everyone isn't camped out in the hills acting like survivalists. There are many things about this I just don't understand. Was there something in the water the government officials were drinking that led them to circumvent common sense so completely?
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    Given the bad guys and monsters part, I'd assume she watched Dad play video games. But no, it's far more logical that he's hiding handguns up his nethers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLittleFriend View Post
    Wow. They took this very, very serious while thousands poor children who are ignored when they need help, are being torture in abusive hands? Ridiculous.
    Abused child, under funded, under trained, no multiple agency emergency, we'll review our mistakes later after the child dies, are you appeased public, good no changes necessary
    Only the drawing of a gun by a child is important enough to require multiple departments, school administration, children's services, police department, swat, the military,
    Seems for ridiculous PC idiocracy there is plenty of money and manpower
    Has it become the raign of ERROR or TERROR

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    That's why I'm asking, @Dakota Valkyrie. Seems like they went too far strip searching him. A pat down? Sure.
    "We must all go through a rite of passage, and it must be physical, it must be painful, and it must leave a mark." Captain Howdy, Strangeland.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marv View Post
    errmm......incase he kept the gun up his ass? In which case, the kids would (hopefully) not have access to it, and so all would be well.

    You have obviously not seen Bridesmaid's.

    Seriously though, where did he pull that gun out of???
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    they like flowers and music and white girls named Debbie too."

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    This guy...he should move to Wyoming.
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    quick! someone arrest these parents!
    "Attention! Harken to my voice!"
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    command you to avoid it at all costs! That is all."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saffron View Post
    She didn't just draw a gun, she told them her Daddy has a gun and uses it to shoot bad guys and monsters but I do agree that they went way overboard. They should have asked him for permission to search the home and at least give him a chance before arresting him.
    And humiliating him by handcuffing him and taking him to jail in front of the entire school, also taking all the kids to CPS. When I was a kid my cousin Bobby had loved to draw guns, tanks, dead army men laying around and blood flowing from the war action of grenades going off and he was pretty good at it even at around 6 or 8 yrs old, Wonder what they would have done to my poor Auntie if things were like they are now. Probobly haul her off to jail, take her kids and put Bobby in a mental home.

    We are quickly going downhill as Pete always says... We are losing rights and the police are becoming too militaristic, arrest or shoot first and ask questions later...
    Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one...

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLittleFriend View Post
    Wow. They took this very, very serious while thousands poor children who are ignored when they need help, are being torture in abusive hands? Ridiculous.
    And thousands of children are saved from abuse and placed with loving families because of these same people.

    We can't have it both ways. We want Child Protective Services to be aggressive when it comes to saving kids but criticize them when they launch an aggressive investigation on someone who turns out to be innocent. *bangs head against wall*
    Last edited by Obsolete; February 24th, 2012 at 06:19 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by VXIII View Post
    And humiliating him by handcuffing him and taking him to jail in front of the entire school, also taking all the kids to CPS. When I was a kid my cousin Bobby had loved to draw guns, tanks, dead army men laying around and blood flowing from the war action of grenades going off and he was pretty good at it even at around 6 or 8 yrs old, Wonder what they would have done to my poor Auntie if things were like they are now. Probobly haul her off to jail, take her kids and put Bobby in a mental home.

    We are quickly going downhill as Pete always says... We are losing rights and the police are becoming too militaristic, arrest or shoot first and ask questions later...
    You are forgetting that this incident occurred in Canada where it is illegal to own a handgun. They've not had the right to own one as long as I've been sentient so no one lost anything they previously had. I went to Canada with my parents in the 70s and they practically ripped apart our van looking for handguns because it had an NRA sticker in the back window from the previous owner. They even searched me as a 5-6 year old with a pat down. They take gun control seriously like every other industrialized country (other than the USA that is).
    I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But much as I want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saffron View Post
    You are forgetting that this incident occurred in Canada where it is illegal to own a handgun. They've not had the right to own one as long as I've been sentient so no one lost anything they previously had. I went to Canada with my parents in the 70s and they practically ripped apart our van looking for handguns because it had an NRA sticker in the back window from the previous owner. They even searched me as a 5-6 year old with a pat down. They take gun control seriously like every other industrialized country (other than the USA that is).
    But dont they see guns on TV?

    Edit: PS. I am not for people owning guns unless they have had serious background checks and training and still not sure if Im for it then.
    Last edited by VXIII; February 24th, 2012 at 07:37 PM.
    Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one...

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    Quote Originally Posted by VXIII View Post
    But dont they see guns on TV?
    What does that have to do with a little girl telling her teacher that her daddy owned a gun?

    In the US if a child says "my parents shoot up drugs" chances are a investigation is going to be launched. How is this situation any different?
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    Another thing which just occured to me: did this child have a good imagination?

    My son, when he was 3, told me one day when I got home from work that *A* (my eldest son) had ''hit me really lots, tied me up, and put me in the shed all day''. Now, to someone *outside* the family, they would have been thinking ''OMFG!!''. But a) my eldest had been at work all day. b) he would NEVER do something like that anyway and c) my son finished off by saying: ''and then the Bad Mouse come into the shed, run up my leg and bite my head off!''. (the 'Bad Mouse' was a character in his then-favourite book - The Gruffalo (the big bad mouse)). So that proved what I already knew to be so - his imagination was in over-drive.

    If this child had a good imagination, then the school should surely have realised that her story *could* be just that - a story. Maybe they could have probed a bit deeper before involving outside agencies? Like @DamagedGoods said - maybe she had seen dad play video games, he told her he was 'shooting bad guys and monsters' and her imagination did the rest. No gun involved.
    Psychos do not explode when sunlight hits them, I don't give a fuck how crazy they are!

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    This is what he gets for living in Kitchener. The shithole of Southern Ontario...try driving in it. Jesus! There's no place worse...well, perhaps Brantford, Ontario. Ugh. Anything southwest of Toronto can go fuck itself (no offence @Whisper).

    Anywho, this is one of those grey areas where we can moan about the system or view this instance as an overreaction with resources better allocated elsewhere. I'm with the former, because while this man may be capable of suing for defamation of character (a stretch), the wheels were set in motion. Had this of ended up differently, as @Dakota Valkyrie suggested, we would also be bitching.

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    I'm less concerned that the police checked this out than I am about how they did it. Maybe some of the crap they did was owing to how late in the day it was (e.g., kids about to leave the school). I can't see any other reason why they thought they had to detain him right there. Wouldn't it have made more sense to go to his home, warrant in hand, and conduct a search, detain him there or even as he left work? Why let him get close to the school with all the kids there? Did they really think that he was suddenly going to go crazy and hold his kids hostage with his alleged illegal handgun, if he'd been killing bad guys and monsters for quite a while? And what about that strip search? . . . ! Really?!!
    Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment. ~Will Rogers

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    Quote Originally Posted by Obsolete View Post
    And thousands of children are saved from abuse and placed with loving families because of these same people.

    We can't have it both ways. We want Child Protective Services to be aggressive when it comes to saving kids but criticize them when they launch an aggressive investigation on someone who turns out to be innocent. *bangs head against wall*
    We want aggressive, but what we seem to get From child services and school administrators is dumb and dumber, and this one is right up there with some of the greatest of overkill dumb stupid over the top idiotic moves of current times

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