Mississippi River: Baby Dumping Ground

**Dakota Valkyrie** · September 7th, 2011, 08:07 AM

The Winona County Sheriff’s Department is investigating the death of a newborn girl found Monday afternoon inside a bag floating in the Mississippi River.

The department received a 911 call about 2 p.m. from a family boating about six miles south of Winona, which reported it found the baby after driving by what appeared to be a bag in the water and pulling it from the river, according to Winona County Sheriff Dave Brand.

Law enforcement responded and a boat patrol met the boaters on the river to mark where the family had found the infant, Brand said.

They then drove to a landing near Pla-Mor Campground, where a coroner and authorities from the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension arrived to assist with the investigation, the sheriff said.

The girl weighed 7 pounds and was born within the last two to three days, Brand said. Her body was transported to the Dakota County medical examiner in Hastings, Minn., for an autopsy.

Brand said he doesn’t yet know why the girl was in the river.

http://www.winonadailynews.com/news/...cc4c03286.html

Winona MN to Red Wing is just under 70 miles.

Authorities are investigating whether the discovery of a newborn baby in the Mississippi River near Winona may be linked to three similar incidents upriver.
[...]

The story is all too familiar to officials in Goodhue County, where three newborns have been found in the river near Red Wing since 1999.

Goodhue County Sheriff Scott McNurlin said all four cases involved babies that had been placed in the water within days of birth. He says his office is interested in any possible links with the baby found in Winona County, though it is still too early to connect the incidents.

http://ksax.com/article/stories/S227...html?cat=10230

All the stupid comments come out now. "He doesn’t yet know why the girl was in the river"?? I doubt it was because the baby misjudged the river current and accidentally drowned. In a bag. And "linked to three similar incidents upriver"?? Like there is a demented cult tossing babies off the bridge like unwanted kittens? I doubt they are linked by anything but a cruel and selfish mentality.

**Robynne** · September 7th, 2011, 11:15 AM

He says his office is interested in any possible links with the baby found in Winona County, though it is still too early to connect the incidents.

Unless the bodies of the babies are linked by DNA, these incidents are not related.
This cops sounds like a moron. They should designate someone else to speak to the press.

**Bohring** · September 7th, 2011, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by Dakota Valkyrie

I doubt they are linked by anything but a cruel and selfish mentality.

While my first thought was of that crazy bitch in Canada that kept killing her babies and burying them in the yard (I think), you're probably right. My family is from the South, Alabama and Mississippi mostly. There is a horrible, ongoing joke about putting newborn kittens in a bag and throwing them in the lake. To prevent population control, cause I guess the morons have never heard of actually caring for you animals, and getting them fixed. Well, this was back in the days of my great-grandma, who I hear was a raging, cruel bitch. I guess I can see how it would carry over to newborn infants as well. I can't understand it, but stranger shit has happened.

Again, I need coffee. I'm rambling.

**Obsolete** · September 7th, 2011, 12:41 PM

You guys have no imagination.

You have to think like Morgan, Reid, and Garcia....Man abducts women and keeps them locked in a cellar...he knocks them up because he has a pregnancy fetish but gets rid of the babies once they're born because they're too much of a hassle.

Boom, mystery solved.

**gee** · September 7th, 2011, 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by Obsolete

You guys have no imagination.

You have to think like Morgan, Reid, and Garcia....Man abducts women and keeps them locked in a cellar...he knocks them up because he has a pregnancy fetish but gets rid of the babies once they're born because they're too much of a hassle.

Boom, mystery solved.

I must correct you my dear. The babies needed to be fair and blond hair or was it male.

**TKaz** · September 7th, 2011, 02:02 PM

I'm sure where there are large bodies of water, there are always unwanted babies to be found. And I BET this has been going on since the beginning of time. Can't take care of your baby/scared/selfish/cold-hearted (take your pick)? Put them in the river/lake/free flowing water.
And I know this is only theory but it sounds like a practice that is age-old & only those who are sheltered from society see this as a viable option.

**Tundratot** · September 7th, 2011, 02:08 PM

Ode to Billie Joe

**Bohring** · September 7th, 2011, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by Obsolete

You guys have no imagination.

You have to think like Morgan, Reid, and Garcia....Man abducts women and keeps them locked in a cellar...he knocks them up because he has a pregnancy fetish but gets rid of the babies once they're born because they're too much of a hassle.

Boom, mystery solved.

Ew, now I'm thinking of the inbreeding episode of X-Files, called Home. Blech. Only they got rid of the babies cause there were too many birth defects brought on by said inbreeding. *puts away lunch*

**4Cats** · September 7th, 2011, 03:05 PM

the last time they found a baby in the river down there, the sheriff's office said basically the same thing...not sure if they were connected, and were looking for links. Dumbasses.

The story is all too familiar to officials in Goodhue County, where three newborns have been found in the river near Red Wing since 1999.

Goodhue County Sheriff Scott McNurlin said all four cases involved babies that had been placed in the water within days of birth. He says his office is interested in any possible links with the baby found in Winona County, though it is still too early to connect the incidents.

**Crymzen Vyolet** · September 7th, 2011, 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by Robynne

Unless the bodies of the babies are linked by DNA, these incidents are not related.
This cops sounds like a moron. They should designate someone else to speak to the press.

I was wondering about DNA as well. Though there's probably no connection and the cop probably IS a moron.

**Robynne** · September 7th, 2011, 03:44 PM

Originally Posted by gee

I must correct you my dear. The babies needed to be fair and blond hair or was it male.

They wanted boys, and the guy dropped the girls off at safe havens. Only the bio mothers were killed. (I believe)

**Obsolete** · September 7th, 2011, 04:50 PM

Originally Posted by Robynne

They wanted boys, and the guy dropped the girls off at safe havens. Only the bio mothers were killed. (I believe)

What are you guys talking about? I don't think there was an actual episode like the one I jokingly referred to. The only one that comes close is the guy that kidnaps girls, impregnates them, then kills them after they give birth so he can sell their babies in a black market adoption scam.

**Dakota Valkyrie** · September 7th, 2011, 05:13 PM

Sounds like an episode of Criminal Minds... "Cradle to grave" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1522954/synopsis

**Obsolete** · September 7th, 2011, 05:46 PM

Originally Posted by Dakota Valkyrie

Sounds like an episode of Criminal Minds... "Cradle to grave" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1522954/synopsis

That's the episode I was just talking about, but I don't think there is a CM episode about the pregnanct fetish I mentioned earlier.

**Robynne** · September 7th, 2011, 07:22 PM

Originally Posted by Obsolete

What are you guys talking about? I don't think there was an actual episode like the one I jokingly referred to. The only one that comes close is the guy that kidnaps girls, impregnates them, then kills them after they give birth so he can sell their babies in a black market adoption scam.

Criminal Minds: Cradle to Grave

Turns out the child was dropped off anonymously at a church before being legally adopted. "So the unsub has the opportunity to make money off this infant, but doesn't, Rossi wonders." Even more odd: the killer then goes to the trouble of dropping the baby off at a safe location.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1522954/synopsis

Criminal Minds is my favorite crime show.

**Obsolete** · September 7th, 2011, 07:41 PM

I know what episode you're talking about....I just don't understand why it was being related to my original post. My post wasn't about the cradle to the grave episode, it was just a scenario I made up to relate to this thread.

I've watched every episode of CM and there isn't one about any men with pregnancy fetishes who kill the newborns.

Back to the thread...I wonder if the previous babies were thrown into the river in bags similar to the recent baby? Maybe that is why there is speculation of them being related cases.

**Robynne** · September 7th, 2011, 08:23 PM

Originally Posted by Obsolete

I know what episode you're talking about....I just don't understand why it was being related to my original post. My post wasn't about the cradle to the grave episode, it was just a scenario I made up to relate to this thread.

I've watched every episode of CM and there isn't one about any men with pregnancy fetishes who kill the newborns.

Back to the thread...I wonder if the previous babies were thrown into the river in bags similar to the recent baby? Maybe that is why there is speculation of them being related cases.

Sorry, I read Morgan, Reed, and Garcia and thought you were referring to that episode. I didn't read it right. I didn't realize you were being hypothetical.

Anyway....
I am guessing they have done DNA on the previous victims, ruling out any relation. I think maybe it's just random people trying to dump their babies without getting caught.

Just sayin...

**Silvahalo** · September 7th, 2011, 08:41 PM

three newborns have been found in the river near Red Wing since 1999.

This doesn't sound all that frequent considering the high teen pregnancy rates there.
One baby is too much of course, but just sayin'.

Anyhow, poor baby girl terrible ending.
I'll remember you as Natasha Marie. Rest in peace little one.

**Dakota Valkyrie** · September 7th, 2011, 09:08 PM

Originally Posted by silvahalo68

This doesn't sound all that frequent considering the high teen pregnancy rates there.

Red Wing Minnesota has a high teen pregnancy rate? Why is that?

**Silvahalo** · September 7th, 2011, 10:16 PM

Originally Posted by Dakota Valkyrie

Red Wing Minnesota has a high teen pregnancy rate? Why is that?

Never mind. I was thinking of Mahnomen. Still, 3 since '99 doesn't seem excessive. Tragic yes. not excessive and not related to one another.

**MC30** · September 8th, 2011, 02:04 AM

did all of ya'll start drinking without me?

**Obsolete** · September 8th, 2011, 12:14 PM

I am guessing they have done DNA on the previous victims, ruling out any relation. I think maybe it's just random people trying to dump their babies without getting caught.

I agree, I don't think the cases are related either...just wondering why the authorities are investigating whether they are related or not. There must be something that makes them think there could be a link...other than just babies in a river.

**Dakota Valkyrie** · September 8th, 2011, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by Obsolete

I agree, I don't think the cases are related either...just wondering why the authorities are investigating whether they are related or not.

Probably in answer to a reporter's question "Do you think these cases are related?". In truth, they would be remiss to not at least check, but the cops too probably think they aren't related.

**Obsolete** · September 8th, 2011, 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by Dakota Valkyrie

Probably in answer to a reporter's question "Do you think these cases are related?". In truth, they would be remiss to not at least check, but the cops too probably think they aren't related.

I just glanced at Jaded's version of this article and it says two of the babies are believed to be siblings....crazy.

**Kitty** · September 8th, 2011, 09:07 PM

Originally Posted by TKaz

I'm sure where there are large bodies of water, there are always unwanted babies to be found. And I BET this has been going on since the beginning of time. Can't take care of your baby/scared/selfish/cold-hearted (take your pick)? Put them in the river/lake/free flowing water.
And I know this is only theory but it sounds like a practice that is age-old & only those who are sheltered from society see this as a viable option.

Moses?

I'm also interested to know if there is a dna connection of the babies.

**Obsolete** · September 9th, 2011, 12:33 PM

The three babies lie in plots next to each other, their names etched in a single stone: Jamie, Corey, Abby.

Each was found in the Mississippi River southeast of the Twin Cities, four years apart, discarded soon after birth.

No one knows who their mothers are, but it's easy to know who is caring for them.

"To have a child by themselves, it's a hard one. I just don't want them to be alone, I guess, is probably the whole thing," said Jeanne Madtson, who along with her husband, Don, donated the space to bury the infants.

There was a funeral in 1999 when the little girl was found, wrapped in a towel.

Another was held in early 2004 after the baby boy turned up.

When the third baby surfaced, a girl in 2007, the Madtsons gave them all a common tombstone.

Now that a fourth newborn has been found in the river - a 7-pound girl sealed in a plastic bag discovered Monday just south of Winona - Madtson said she wants to care for her, too.

"I don't want them to just bury her and not have anybody around her," Madtson said. Whether that means making more room at her family burial plot in Red Wing's Oakwood Cemetery or finding a space somewhere in Winona, so be it, she said.

Madtson has not talked to the sheriff's office in Winona County, where the baby girl was found, but has asked investigators in Goodhue County, where the other three babies turned up, to pass along her name and phone number when the time comes for burial.

Investigators have no leads in any of the cases and are asking for the public's help in figuring out how the children ended up in the river.
For the Madtsons, each new discovery brings up their own daughter - stillborn in 1989 - who is buried alongside the babies found in the Mississippi.

Jeanne Madtson remembers the anguish of seeing her child for the last time at the funeral home.

"I held her for over an hour, and then it was time. I laid her in a casket, and then they closed it. And that was it," she said. "I can't believe the mothers of these four children will be able to live with themselves. I can't imagine living with the fact that I threw a baby in the water and then go on with life."

Burying the children - naming them, even - is Madtson's way of showing the children that they are loved.

"I think everyone deserves a proper burial," she said.

http://www.twincities.com/ci_1885624...e=most_emailed

**Dakota Valkyrie** · November 19th, 2011, 01:48 PM

Porcelain angels, design on canvas bag, t-shirt, "god's eye"

Sept 14:

At a news conference Tuesday BCA Senior Special Agent Drew Evans and Winona County Sheriff David Brand showed the items, which include several porcelain figurines, a t-shirt and a unique canvas bag with an insignia.
[...]

The child is the fourth baby to be pulled from this stretch of the Mississippi in recent years.

http://www.kare11.com/news/article/9...d-babys-mother

The Winona County Sheriff's department has been following lead after lead hoping to find out who the girl's mother is or who put her in the water. They say a witness has recently brought forth a few significant clues.

"We want to talk to her and see if there's anything she can help us with," says Sheriff David Brand after a witness called in and said he saw a strange woman across from the Pla-Mor campground. Brand says the woman investigators are looking for was spotted alone in a boat just off this shoreline right before the newborn girl was found.

"This female was out there prior to finding the body at 2 o'clock," says Brand who tells us the witness described the woman as white with a medium build, between her 30s and 40s.

"[She] had been anchored, wasn't fishing, just in a boat, [he] thought it was unusual. [He] didn't see anybody around," says Brand. The witness also described the boat as a white Sea Ray cabin cruiser.

"Like 27-foot long boat and had sleeping quarters in it," says Brand. "We're running out of information. We've been checking out and we'd been looking for this Sea Ray or similar boat, and we haven't come up with anything," says Brand.

A new development is the BCA says it's been able to determine the girl's parents' DNA profile.

"We haven't had any luck but we've checked out different DNA on different females. Nothing right now matches," says Brand.

Although the DNA can't help determine ethnicity or physical characteristics, the BCA will continue using it to find the right people.

"We want to make a closure on it, that we can find the mother involved so we can give the baby a last name and uh- and have a proper burial for the infant," says Brand.

The BCA says it still hasn't determined the girl's cause of death. It says her body couldn't have been in the water for more than an hour and it's likely the mother gave birth unassisted.

http://kaaltv.com/article/stories/S2...html?cat=10151

**Dakota Valkyrie** · March 12th, 2012, 06:41 AM

Winona County Sheriff David S. Brand has a tombstone for a baby, but he doesn't know what to put on it.

The body of the unidentified infant girl was discovered in the Mississippi River on Sept. 5. Since then, Brand and authorities in Minnesota and Wisconsin have been searching for the baby's parents.

After more than six months of searching with no results, Brand decided it was time to bury the little girl he and other law enforcement officials are calling Angel because of the angel figurines that were found with her.

"We're still looking, but it was time to give her a Christian burial," Brand said. "We're always thinking about why somebody'd do this."

The baby, found by a family boating on the river, will be buried on April 7 at Woodland Cemetery in Winona. A memorial service will be at 1 p.m. that day at St. Paul's Episcopal Church in Winona.
[...]

The Winona County Sheriff's Office has received dozens of calls or e-mails about the baby, and followed up on an equal number of leads in looking for her parents or other family.
[...]

Authorities have visited hospitals, schools, social service agencies, campgrounds, factories and other businesses in search of the child's family.

Brand said DNA tests have been done on some individuals to see if they might be related to the baby or connected to the case, but nothing has come of the leads.

"We're not giving up," Brand said. "I don't do that."

He said that anyone with information should call 507-457-6368.

He said the department is also looking for donations. "We want to put flowers on the gravesite every year," he said.

http://www.startribune.com/local/south/142261485.html