I'm done. I tried to explain my point in not wanting my children on birth control behind my back, but I still think it is the lesser of two evils. I will agree to disagree, because this has just started to go in a circle. I did not want to offend you, and I am sorry if I did. I will raise my children my way, you yours.
Truce?
I told ya before, I don't care what peoples' opinions are. Seriously, I thought we were discussin'. I am sorry if I offended you. To each his own.
I can see both sides but I get sick of living in a lesser of two evils society, w/o ever fixing the core problems.
Originally Posted by celtic friend
That's why we have to have a "talk" with our children about sex, peer pressure, bullying, and others. Parents who leave children in dark, are most likely make bad decisions. We have responsibles as parent to care about the children, know what's going on at school and home. I talk to my son everyday when he come home from preschool....about what he do..etc.
he mentioned to me about a boy bullied him, I let the school know about it. It is very important to have good communication with child every day....so that will lead a good, health relationship with child all way to high school.
Everybody hates it. But until utopia is achieved thats what we gotta do. And I love a good debate, but I felt I was just getting bitchy with you and I don't want that. So, to go with our group hug, here is some kisses.:kiss2:
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Awwwwww....
I don't leave my kids in the dark, and I agree that parents need to inform their kids. I just don't feel the school nurse handing out birth control pills to 11 year olds is the way to go without parental consent. That could even be setting up the kids to not feel the need to talk to their parents about a situation they would otherwise have to.
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some thoughts:
i didnt read every post word for word so dont go off on me...............but:
it sucks that we have to even discuss this.......................but the fact is that kids are gonna fuck each other before they should. esp. from our (as parents) perspective. i would rather my slutty daughter fuck 100 dudes with protection, and not get an std or pregnant, than fuck one guy one time without and catch an std and/or get pregnant. it sucks, but its true. thebiggest problem really is parenting, and as we see here on DD, there are A LOT who just suck really bad at that.
i also agree with Celtic that 11 years old is just WAY too young to be making those type descisions. the social bullying that would come from being "the class whore" at that age would doom her to a life of living out intervention episodes.
i think maybe at 15 its ok to start thinking about sex and doing it responsibly (we all need that high scholl memory), but till they are 18 parents should have the option of chastity belts! and yeah i mean the really big metal ones with a padlock and chains!
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noooooo, I don't want my little boy start having sex at 15. *sniffles* nooooo. I better start have a talk with him!
That is female condom. Look werid? You tell me!
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Some things that stick out for me from the article:
Portland's three middle schools reported 17 pregnancies during the last four years, not counting miscarriages or terminated pregnancies that weren't reported to the school.
Most middle schoolers range in age from 11 to 13.
King Middle School will become the first middle school in Maine to make a full range of contraception available. Condoms have been available at King's health center since 2000.
King is the only one of the three schools with a health center, primarily because it has more students who get free or reduced-price lunch.
"This isn't encouraging kids to have sex. This is about the kids who are engaging in sexually activity," Richard Veilleux said.
At King, birth control prescriptions will be given after a student undergoes a physical exam by a physician or nurse practitioner, Belanger said.
Dissenting Ben Meiklejohn, said a parental consent form, which allows students to receive any kind of treatment at the school health center, does not clearly define the services being offered.
Theres more in there but these stuck out to me in how/why I think as I do. :)
I also think it's sad that we have to have "health centers" in the public schools as opposed to the good old fashioned "school nurse". But the whole medical cost/insurance thing is for a different thread.
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I would very much like my hipotetical daugther to not be an 11yo hussy but if wishes were horses sumtin sumting because I forgot how that goes, the case is I wish more on her to not have to go trougth an unwanted pregnancy than I care for her reputation or few psycological issues that can come from hiting it too early, not that not having good contraception would stop her from any of it...
When I was in my mid teens(Y gen) there were tons of guys doing it with girls that prety much were entering puberty 12,13 etc, I remember a specific case of a 15 yo taking his 14 yo gf to abort, obiously that was fucking hell for the girl. I certainly wouldnt want my daugther going througth that and seeing as it looks that the future will be even more sexualised I cant imagine she would keep her legs crossed for too long...
History has proven us that too think no contraceptives = Abstinence would be silly, to think horny teenagers will stop because they dont have condom at hand is something that ridicusly enuff doesnt happend as often as they should, hormones tend to win over logic on most teens, to think just because im gona try to teach her not to do it that soon its gona go that way, im not special as the no teen sex upringing parents of tons of pregger teens are not special, this can happen to anyone desipte the intentions of a good upbringing....
Like someone said(sorry too lazy to look back) the best thing would be pill and condom, a girl can be more in control of her safety and future by being on the pill but demanding a condom, maybe even not telling shes on it to scare the boy with more than disseases. They can be very safe about their future.
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No, I don't think it's encouraging kids to do things behind their parents' back. That's certainly not how I considered it when I was getting birth control without my parents knowledge. I knew that my parents would be okay with it should they find out (and they did, as I stopped requiring the purchase of pads and tampons). It was simply about making kids comfortable with making the right decision. I think it's encouraging kids to take a measure of responsibility for an aspect of their life that only they have control over.
Of course, if you want to talk messages being sent, what about mandating that girls over the age of 9 be vaccinated with Gardasil, the anti-HPV vaccine. This is currently being done in Texas, and many other states are considering it. HPV is an STD. By mandating that girls over the age of 9 get it, aren't you accepting the fact that children this young can be sexually active?
Furthermore, you may be right. I wouldn't be surprised at all if more kids were waiting to have sex. Of course, while abstinence-only education is the only form funded by the feds, most schools employ a more comprehensive approach to sex ed, because the numbers are out and abstinence-only just doesn't work. We can probably credit this more comprehensive approach with any delay in sexual activity we're seeing.
Actually, yeah, a nurse will. I was on birth control for a year and a half before having sex, and the medical professionals who administered it knew that I was not sexually active, and that I was on it "just in case".A nurse is not going to give it out because a girl does not want her period, or if a girl fears she will be raped, the girl most likely is saying sexual reasons, and an 11 can not consent to sex.
Who knows. The fact of the matter is, if this kid ID turning to a nurse for that information, it's because she didn't get it from her parents.Is the nurse responsible for asking the child who she is engaging in these behaviors with? Does she tell the girl the stigma associated with being a slut or considered one, that if she leaks that she is on the pill horny young men might be all of a sudden interested in her? How much does this nurse do that a parent should?
We can't get all hung up on the age of consent. At the end of the day, it's a secondary consideration. In my middle school, 3 girls had kids. Who knows how many had abortions we didn't hear about. All of these could have been prevented if birth control was available to them, then. Sure, ideally, kids will talk to their parents about this stuff. But, we know a lot of them don't. I'd rather my kid have access to birth control without my knowledge than a need for my consent for an abortion.
Probably. And? Do your kids not have a pediatrician? Do you NEED for the school to administer health care to your child? If something serious happens, an ambulance will be called, anyway. Lots of schools don't have "health centers", and those kids get along okay.If I am refusing the health center, am I refusing all of its services? Just curious, I will have to look. Thankfully I have boys
If the parents are allowed to sign a waiver saying the school may not prescribe anything, that would be a sufficient solution.
"Now that ceaseless exposure has calloused us to the lewd and the vulgar, it is instructive to see what still seems wicked to us. What still slaps the clammy flab of our submissive consciousness hard enough to get our attention?"
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If you want to talk about what's sad, it's the fact that the "class whore" stigma is not what it once was. Kids don't chastise each other like they used to for that kind of behavior, which is why it's more important than ever to provide kids with options. Oral sex on middle school buses is a trend.
Oh, and about the assertion that kids are waiting longer to have sex, we were wrong. This article cites a national survey that determined that 20% of kids under 14 (one in five, folks) have had sex.
"Now that ceaseless exposure has calloused us to the lewd and the vulgar, it is instructive to see what still seems wicked to us. What still slaps the clammy flab of our submissive consciousness hard enough to get our attention?"
Bingo.
It's a tough subject, because children ARE having sex at very young ages. Parents aren't responsible anymore. We've got posters here who want coffee shops to be allowed to show off tits without having to cover windows up, and there are scores of people who agree, and then we wonder why we live in a society that advocates sex all the fucking time.
I don't want strangers handing out birth control to my children in middle school behind my back period. It's just not right, and yeah, to some, that would lead children to think they CAN start doing that....it's almost a license to have sex, only without getting pregnant.
Wow. The bottom line, here, is this: If YOU raise YOUR kid by YOUR standards, and that doesn't involve sex in middle school, YOU have nothing to worry about.
So why screw all the kids who DON'T have good communication with their families? The high incident of teenage pregnancy proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that lots of kids don't talk to their parents about sex or feel comfortable asking their parents for birth control.
If we want people to stop having abortions out of convenience, we need to make birth control as widely available as possible. Kids are having sex whether birth control is available or not, so, no, making birth control available is not causing sex.
You don't want your kid to go behind your back to get birth control, it's on you to make sure they don't feel the need to. It makes no sense to shut down a very productive policy out of fear that your kid may act out of accordance with the way they were raised.
"Now that ceaseless exposure has calloused us to the lewd and the vulgar, it is instructive to see what still seems wicked to us. What still slaps the clammy flab of our submissive consciousness hard enough to get our attention?"
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SOme of thats true, yes, and you make a point for it. I'm not hardcore against it. Where I stand at the outset, is that I dont want that shit being given to my child without me KNOWING about it. If the schools feel the need to do it, Id rather find out about it, and if parents want to throw that shit away out of whatever reason, then thats up to them and their children to work that out.
Hell, if parents knew about this, maybe it would encourage them and their children to talk about it.
You say productive policy though. Does that come out of nowhere, or can you back that up? Or are you talking aout of your ass again? (Had to edit that in, you see......:D :D)
ANd it doesnt CAUSE SEX, no. But it could certainly be looked at as promotion....kids could easily use this as an excuse to have sex, thinking that they just got a no repercussions card....
And as long as your using your own personal experiences to make a point, when I was in school and they were handing out condoms and such, I certainly recall all kinds of laughter, and kids talking to other kids trying to find out who to use them on....to say that shit doesnt go down is incredibly naive....
Bottom line, the going behind our backs is what draws my ire....not enough for me to freak out about, but I dont like it.
Last edited by The Diabolical Mr. Lieman; June 1st, 2008 at 07:14 PM.
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Indeed I can, sir. Well, loosely -
SourceWhat's Driving the Declines?
On one level, the answer seems simple: Since teenage abortion rates have also declined since the early 1990s, pregnancy and birthrates have fallen either because fewer teens are having sex or because more adolescents are using contraceptives. Recent survey data suggest that the real answer may be both.
According to two national surveys, fewer teenagers are having sex. The National Survey of Family Growth (NSFG) finds that the proportion of adolescent females reporting that they had ever had sexual intercourse declined from 53% to 50% between 1988 and 1995, reversing a steady increase in sexual activity in the previous two decades. More recent data from the Youth Risk Behavior Survey shows that the proportion of high school students who reported having had sexual intercourse decreased 11% between 1991 and 1997. Forty-eight percent of female students reported having had sex in 1997, compared with 51% in 1991. Among adolescent males, the proportion who had ever had sex dropped from 57% in 1991 to 49% in 1997.
At the same time, according to the NSFG, contraceptive use at first intercourse rose to 78% among females aged 15-19 in 1995, from 65% in the late 1980s and 48% in the early 1980s. However, while more than 80% of non-Hispanic white teens and nearly three-quarters of black teens reported using a method at first intercourse, only 53% of Hispanic teens said they did so. The large majority of teens who use a method the first time they have sex rely on condoms: Sixty-six percent of female teens reported in 1995 that they and their partner used condoms at first intercourse, compared with 48% in 1988 and 23% in 1982.
Researchers say the recent trends in sexual activity and contraceptive use are the result of a confluence of factors, including greater emphasis on abstinence, more conservative attitudes about sex, fear of AIDS, the popularity of the long-lasting methods, such as the contraceptive implant (Norplant®) and the injectable (Depo Provera®), and even the economy.
We're already telling teenagers to pursue abstinence. Parents are saying it, schools are saying it, and the message is getting through to some. It only makes sense to provide those who choose to ignore that heed easy access to birth control.
I'm sure I'll be able to find a more specific study that illustrates a connection between birth control availability at schools and a drop in birth rates, but I perform the level of research here at home with the speed I'm able to do so at work.
Lieman - A parent can't stop a kid from getting an abortion, so why should we provide parents the ability to stop a kid from obtaining BC? You KNOW there is that ignorant faction of parents in this country who honestly believe that if a kid can't get birth control, they'll just not have sex, even if the numbers prove differently.
Just the existance of programs like these should be enough to get parents to talk about sex with their kid. For the parents who haven't bothered, notifying them that their kid is trying to get birth control will only work to make them uncomfortable and, potentially, get a kid in trouble. After all, a kid is ultimately responsible for their own pregnancy - shouldn't they be ultimately responsible for their own prevention methods?
"Now that ceaseless exposure has calloused us to the lewd and the vulgar, it is instructive to see what still seems wicked to us. What still slaps the clammy flab of our submissive consciousness hard enough to get our attention?"
This is not your school nurse we are talking about. It is a clinic - doctors, nurses, they bill insurance and medicaid. King Student Health Center operated by the City of Portland’s Public Health Division.
PDF The King Student Health Center http://king.portlandschools.org/file...h%20Center.pdf
CURRENT services offered at the King Middle School Health center:
According to their Confidentiality policy:A few of the services offered at the Student Health Center are listed below.
• Treatment of acute illness or minor injury (sore throats, bronchitis, muscle strain, etc.)
• Management of chronic health conditions (acne, asthma, allergies, etc.)
• Reproductive health services including risk assessment and counseling, testing and treatment of sexually transmitted infections, birth control services for sexually active students, pregnancy testing
• Physical exams and Immunizations
• Preventive dental services (screening, cleaning, fluoride, sealants, etc.; not restorative treatment)
• Psychiatric evaluations and follow-up
They already can do substance abuse and mental health without consent. Right now they offer only condoms so if they add the pill/etc. the can include that.However, please note that the law allows minors to seek services from health care providers for issues related to reproductive health, mental health or substance abuse without requiring parental notification. (22 M.R.S.A. can be found at http://janus.state.me.us/legis/statu...22ch0sec0.html )
THE STATE OF MAINE already allows kids to get birth control without parental notification. All the middle school is trying to do is add it to the services in the health clinic.
Parents who do not wish to have their kids avail themselves of the clinic should not sign the waiver. They have an Opt-in - not an Opt-out - system.
There is a reason there is a need for such services at the school.
If my kids went to that school, I would not sign the waiver - but am glad it's there for those who need it.
Last edited by Dakota Valkyrie; June 1st, 2008 at 07:46 PM.
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I didn't read the entire thread. To be honest what I did read what pretty much what I expected. I was 15 when I lost my virginity and I was one of the last of my friends to "do it". By the time I was 12 I knew several friends who where close to, if not, already having sex. Education and access to birth control does not mean "sure have all the sex you want kiddies" it means "look I know you are curious, it's a normal drive but hey listen let me tell you what I know about it and give you access to things that could save your life". If you haven't already talked to your child or are uncomfortable talking about sex then I see that as the begining of the problem. Kids are exposed to more sex by peers than by teachers (no jokes people ;)) and parents, for the most part. 11 is not too young to have access to BC or to be taught about it. If you make it forbidden (not that I'm advocating 11 yr old screwing) than it makes the deed even more appealing. I you send your kids out in the world and just expect to do as you say you are setting yourself up for failure.
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First, how would an 11 year know it would be forbidden if it was never given to them?
I have a problem with two things, (I think), giving it behind the parents backs, and the fact that these kids might think they only need to protect against pregnancy and not STDs too. Giving birth control pills might make them less likely to use condoms, a false sense of security.
Condoms better, both best, free condoms, the BOMB!
Last edited by Nell; June 1st, 2008 at 10:08 PM. Reason: Now I'm just being silly.
It would be CRAZY to assume that at 11 a kid wouldn't have any clue what sex is. Kids do not live in a protective bubble and do get exposed to things you may not want them to. I was advocating education AND access to testing and contraceptives. Not just the pill but also condoms or whatever else you could get them to use. Would I like my children to wait until they are old enough to handle the responsibilities that come with being sexually active? Of course. BUT I am not going to be naive enough to believe that they will be comfortable enough to talk to me about everything. Having programs like this in place are a safe guard to your child's health. I'm all for it.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,289168,00.html
From what I see here, kids are having less sex, but the ones who are, are protecting themselves when they do, which is a good thing, IMO. Let me know if there is a more recent study than this one from July of 07, thanks.
WASHINGTON — Fewer high school students are having sex these days, and more are using condoms. The teen birth rate has hit a record low.
More young people are finishing high school, too, and more little kids are being read to, according to the latest government snapshot on the well-being of the nation's children. It's good news on a number of key wellness indicators, experts said of the report being released Friday.
"The implications for the population are quite positive in terms of their health and their well-being," said Edward Sondik, director of the National Center for Health Statistics. "The lower figure on teens having sex means the risk of sexually transmitted diseases is lower."
In 2005, 47 percent of high school students — 6.7 million — reported having had sexual intercourse, down from 54 percent in 1991. The rate of those who reported having had sex has remained the same since 2003.
Of those who had sex during a three-month period in 2005, 63 percent — about 9 million — used condoms. That's up from 46 percent in 1991.
Mamma, I never said kids would not know what sex is, I said how does not making birth control pills available through school, send out a message of being on them is forbidden?
This town or area seems to have real problems, problems a simple take this pill cause we don't expect much else from you, is going to handle.
I also would like you to tell me what you "expected" from this thread, was it just the comments were "typical", were the same "purantical killjoys" at it again? Just curious what you meant.
But then the kids who do need all of the other services can not get them if their parents do not agree with the birth control pill w/o consent.
I would think that they would have a form that lets you exclude it but have all the other services. But if no parents complain, I doubt they will. The school is doing this because there are already enough students without the support they need (getting pregnant, etc)
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I meant sex being forbidden not BCPs. I would be more hurt that my child wasn't able to come to me directly more than angry that they had access to them. I don't think the program is handing out pills like candy. I am sure there is some sort of counseling that goes along with prescribing BC. From my experience as a teenager at the free clinic, I was seen by a Doc before they could just give me condoms or the pill. I'm glad I had it available.
My comment wasn't implying anything. I don't usually beat around the bush since I pretty much lack a filter. I expected both sides of the coin and that is what I got.
TY, for clarifying there would be no need to filter and I didn't think you would, but I had to check.
In all honesty I have never been to a free clinic, I had friends who used planned parenthood though. I was far from a saint, I have admitted that I was pretty much borderline out of control from 12-16, I had some issues though which I know if they had been dealt with I would not have been so crazy.
I just feel the 11 year old that wants to have sex is not doing it because she really wants an orgasm, there is something else there.
Dakota, but if you could sign a paper just excluding the passing of pills, the parents that didn't would basically BE giving consent to the kids to get pills as needed, then the consent would not be an issue.
We all have our baggage and I would rather them grow up making the right choices, birth control included. Your children are lucky they have such a good mommy.
For the record, the free clinic sucked but it served it's purpose. I would have much rather gone to the school clinic.
Last edited by Countess Olenska; June 1st, 2008 at 10:58 PM. Reason: added crap
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