TSA Outrage Etc...

[walkingeagle]

I have to interject here that the option not to fly does not guarantee you won't be subjected to TSA anymore, unless you walk or drive yourself. Remember recently there was an article where the TSA ambushed a bus station? It's getting to be impossible to avoid them.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...your-bus-stop/
http://blog.tsa.gov/2011/02/screenin...-savannah.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...net-napolitano

Thank you Tundra! They are doing their little scare the people on ferries, in the subways, at the bus depots and other places as well. They forgot about the rental vehicle places.

[biteme]

I never feel good or safe while on a plane. I fucking HATE flying but I deal with it.

The 25K IS the number of breaches, not the number of attempts. They aren't saying these people attempted to breach security (I'm sure that number is too high to calculate) that are saying this is the number of ACTUAL breaches.

Neither where these a threat, just a showing of the ineffectiveness of TSA, so why not handle safety as they do in effective counties? Deal with the real threat instead of wasting time, money and the safety of passengers for the sake of PC

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/loaded...ry?id=12412458
Experts tell ABC News that every year since the September 11 terror attacks, federal agencies have conducted random, covert "red team tests," where undercover agents try to see just how much they can get past security checks at major U.S. airports. And while the Department of Homeland Security closely guards the results as classified, those that have leaked in media reports have been shocking.
According to one report, undercover TSA agents testing security at a Newark airport terminal on one day in 2006 found that TSA screeners failed to detect concealed bombs and guns 20 out of 22 times. A 2007 government audit leaked to USA Today revealed that undercover agents were successful slipping simulated explosives and bomb parts through Los Angeles's LAX airport in 50 out of 70 attempts, and at Chicago's O'Hare airport agents made 75 attempts and succeeded in getting through undetected 45 times.

[Obsolete]

Thank you Tundra! They are doing their little scare the people on ferries, in the subways, at the bus depots and other places as well. They forgot about the rental vehicle places.

Um...most people don't rent vehicles in masses. TSA goes where there are multiple people traveling together, car rental agencies don't fall in that category.

[walkingeagle]

That would mean they would have to document everytime someone walks the wrong way at the gate, or has too big of a bottle of lotion in their carry on...it would be almost impossible (not to mention irrelevant) to do.

Why would that be impossible to figure? They catch nothing other than BS they call contraband. They claim 1% the other direction.i believe I saw an article recently about TSA in Texas actually selling the things they confiscated. Pick a source from this http://www.google.com/search?q=TSA+i...x=&startPage=1

[walkingeagle]

Um...most people don't rent vehicles in masses. TSA goes where there are multiple people traveling together, car rental agencies don't fall in that category.

How many people were taken out of this world too early by McVeigh? There are many more incidents that have cost lives. The government and these morons cannot protect us!

[Obsolete]

Why would that be impossible to figure? They catch nothing other than BS they call contraband. They claim 1% the other direction.i believe I saw an article recently about TSA in Texas actually selling the things they confiscated. Pick a source from this http://www.google.com/search?q=TSA+i...x=&startPage=1

Ok maybe not literally impossible but do you really want to stand in line at the airport longer than necessary because someone wants to know the statistics on how many people attempt to bring too large of a soda onto a plane? If security had to stop what they were doing and jot down every one of those insignificant incidents no one would ever catch their flight...and for what? The infomation isn't going to be useful for any reason. The majority of innocent attempts are outrageous. Now if someone attempted to bring a bomb onto a plane and they are stopped, then of course that will be documented but why do we need to know about all the insignificate incidents too?

[Obsolete]

How many people were taken out of this world too early by McVeigh? There are many more incidents that have cost lives. The government and these morons cannot protect us!

yes but they don't need a team of fucking TSA agents to swarm a car rental agency when there is only likely to be one or two people there renting cars at a time.

Do you actually read what you're typing? You're suggesting TSA needs to ambush a car rental agency... really? No seriously picture it. A few people sitting in a quiet lobby, filling out paperwork to rent a car and suddenly 20 agents burst through the door. Does that seem necessary to you?

[walkingeagle]

How many righteous attempts to bring something dangerous onto a plane have you heard about being prevented by the TSA? I can't say I have heard of any. We know that people slip through the cracks every now and then, but TSA would tout ANY success, if they knew how to spell that word!

[walkingeagle]

yes but they don't need a team of fucking TSA agents to swarm a car rental agency when there is only likely to be one or two people there renting cars at a time.

Do you actually read what you're typing? You're suggesting TSA needs to ambush a car rental agency... really? No seriously picture it. A few people sitting in a quiet lobby, filling out paperwork to rent a car and suddenly 20 agents burst through the door. Does that seem necessary to you?

Seriously picture this. When, in the the last few decades, have you seen a reaction of this nature? Only 9/11 brought this on. I'm not saying they should swarm anything. They are too incompetent! They CANNOT stop anything from happening. Do you really fear old people and children?

[TheMorningStar]

Ok maybe not literally impossible but do you really want to stand in line at the airport longer than necessary because someone wants to know the statistics on how many people attempt to bring too large of a soda onto a plane? If security had to stop what they were doing and jot down every one of those insignificant incidents no one would ever catch their flight...and for what? The infomation isn't going to be useful for any reason. The majority of innocent attempts are outrageous. Now if someone attempted to bring a bomb onto a plane and they are stopped, then of course that will be documented but why do we need to know about all the insignificate incidents too?

Are you saying you are happy to give up your 4th amendment rights in exchange for bullshit security because you don't want to wait longer in line? Seriously?
The majority of innocent attempts are outrageous really? You know they aren't tests? If we are going to be draconian to a point where we are searching old lady's diapers and little kids lets go all out. Try to carry a soda on board - go to jail. You accept strangers hands all over you then excuse those who try to get over? That doesn't make sense.

[Obsolete]

Are you saying you are happy to give up your 4th amendment rights in exchange for bullshit security because you don't want to wait longer in line? Seriously?

OH MY FUCKING GOD! Where in the hell did you read that?

Eagle said he was curious to see the statistics on how many attempted security breaches there were

I said since a security breach could be considered something as minor as having too large of a bottle of lotion, carrying too large of a soda onto a plane, having nail clippers, or getting lost and walking the wrong way at security then those numbers would be through the roof.

Do you know how many people accidently have something they aren't suppose to have when they pass through security? If security had to stop everytime a NONTHREATENING security breach was ATTEMPTED then no one would ever get to their plane on time and since there is nothing really to gain from having those numbers anyway.

Obviously is there was an attempt to get past security with something THREATENING then of course I would want security to follow the proper channels regardless of how long I had to stand in line.

Please dont twist my words, it irritates the fuck out of me.

[TheMorningStar]

You wrote this:
"Ok maybe not literally impossible but do you really want to stand in line at the airport longer than necessary because someone wants to know the statistics on how many people attempt to bring too large of a soda onto a plane"

I understand that it seems like I am twisting your words but that was not my intention.
We cannot have this both ways. Either we are serious about this mess or we aren't.
If we want to get serious, 30 days mandatory in jail for any offense would stop those mysteriously appearing nail clippers real quick.
If we aren't serious and we make excuses for discovered items then this is an epic fail. We have given up our 4th amendment rights for nothing, nihil, nada, the null set.
On the one hand we can get draconian on grandma and her diaper but we cannot get draconian on those who have something they are not supposed to?

EDIT: On rereading your last post, I think your problem lies with the list of stuff you are not supposed to have. My problem is with enforcement.

[walkingeagle]

Eagle wants to know exactly what has been prevented? The number, if you choose to buy that, is already set at 1% on attempted breaches. It is fuzzy what they would call an attempt?

[Obsolete]

You wrote this:
"Ok maybe not literally impossible but do you really want to stand in line at the airport longer than necessary because someone wants to know the statistics on how many people attempt to bring too large of a soda onto a plane"

I understand that it seems like I am twisting your words but that was not my intention.
We cannot have this both ways. Either we are serious about this mess or we aren't.
If we want to get serious, 30 days mandatory in jail for any offense would stop those mysteriously appearing nail clippers real quick.
If we aren't serious and we make excuses for discovered items then this is an epic fail. We have given up our 4th amendment rights for nothing, nihil, nada, the null set.
On the one hand we can get draconian on grandma and her diaper but we cannot get draconian on those who have something they are not supposed to?

My point is this: I don't need to know the statistics on how many people accidentally forget to take something out of their purse. Airline security makes the person dispose of the item and sends them on their way. No harm no foul. How is logging that incident going to benefit anything? Please explain how that knowledge will help the fight against terrorism?

I don't think we need to throw someone in jail because they forgot they had some banned item on them. If that were the case my mother would be in jail everytime she flew. The item should be confiscated and if the agent is at all suspiscious that there was a threat, then yes it needs to be investigated...even if it's an old lady.

[TheMorningStar]

Then you are satisfied to have thrown your 4th amendment rights away (and your tax dollars) for nothing more than a dog and pony show.

[Obsolete]

I still have my 4th amendment right. No one puts a gun to my head when I buy a plane ticket. I willingly submit myself to the searches when I purchase that ticket. I have the right to choose other modes of transportation.

We have the freedom of speech in America but you can still get kicked out of a movie theater for talking during the movie. Are moviegoers throwing away their 1st amendment rights?

[TheMorningStar]

My tax $$ pay for that TSA Employee to look for lotion.
My tax $$ pay for that TSA Employee's Supervisor who makes sure at least 99% of all lotions are caught.
My tax $$ pay for that supervisor to be trained to make sure their underlings catch at least 99% of the lotion.
My tax $$ pay for that supervisor to get re-certified to make sure their underlings catch at least 99% of the lotion.
My tax $$ pay for that employee to be trained to look for lotion.
My tax $$ pay for that employee to be re-certified to look for the latest lotions.
My tax $$ pay for the website that says lotion is a no-no.
My tax $$ pay for the study that says lotion is a danger to others.
My tax $$ pay for the design of the signs that says no lotion allowed.
My tax $$ pay for the placement and upkeep of the signs that say no lotion allowed.

A person has plenty of time to throw his lotion away before going to the secure area. They ignore the signs that say not to do it. After all this tax $$ spent what do they do when they discover the evil lotion? They throw it away and send the person along.
If that isn't a dog and pony show I don't know what is.

I still have my 4th amendment right. No one puts a gun to my head when I buy a plane ticket. I willingly submit myself to the searches when I purchase that ticket. I have the right to choose other modes of transportation.

If they didn't do the unreasonable searching, the same thing would apply. If you think it would be too dangerous then you are free to find other modes of travel.
Free speech in America?? Don't get me started down that road.

[walkingeagle]

I love this BULLSHIT "gun to my head" game being tossed about.

[Nell]

Last time I flew i got felt up better than i did on prom night. She even pulled my pants down. Hot.

I didn't give a good shit but i was PISSED they threw my deodorant, peanut butter and full bottle of Jack Daniels away.

[Tundratot]

yes but they don't need a team of fucking TSA agents to swarm a car rental agency when there is only likely to be one or two people there renting cars at a time.

Do you actually read what you're typing? You're suggesting TSA needs to ambush a car rental agency... really? No seriously picture it. A few people sitting in a quiet lobby, filling out paperwork to rent a car and suddenly 20 agents burst through the door. Does that seem necessary to you?

I am not concerned yet about car rental agencies, but if we are driving our own cars everywhere, they will still find a way to cause problems. My guess, the first salvo against POVs will occur in places like tunnels or bridges. They will be able to claim that these are high risk targets and we'll have to be searched, x-rayed, and our cars gone over with fine tooth combs every time we come to a major bridge or tunnel. Getting in and out of NYC will be horrible.

[Tundratot]

Why would that be impossible to figure? They catch nothing other than BS they call contraband. They claim 1% the other direction.i believe I saw an article recently about TSA in Texas actually selling the things they confiscated. Pick a source from this http://www.google.com/search?q=TSA+i...x=&startPage=1

What I'm seeing in those articles is that the state is selling the contraband, not the TSA. I guess the state collects the trash and sells it instead of carting it off. Personally, I think they should donate it to the homeless and poor.

I'm constantly incensed by the TSA confiscating things and the seemingly arbitrary way they enforce the things we're allowed to take. I've gotten through with my keys (having nail clippers and tiny knives) and I've had my tube of toothpaste confiscated. Recently, the TSA decided my half empty bottle of toothpaste was okay specifically because it was half-empty. If it hadn't been, it would have been too big. I'm always wondering if the rule is 3 oz total or 3 oz per item. What if I carried an entire suitcase full of samples? And since when is 3 oz of any shampoo/conditioner/lotion actually enough for more than two uses? How important is the required plastic ziplock? Will I be turned away if I don't remember to use one? Why do I have to buy shit so can I travel, and buy more of as I travel?

I'm frustrated the second I walk into the airport. I'm on a hair trigger, and ready to linch someone when I get to my seat. Seriously, I wonder that airlines haven't lost a lot of business over airport rage. They should hand out sedatives with the tickets.

[biteme]

Guess TSA molest old ladies cause its fun, certainly not for safety
If they groped for safety that would be profiling, so lets avoid middle eastern looking possible terrorist
and stick it to old ladies and children, TSA now hiring, pedos welcomed, No background checks, No training needed
Create guidelines as you go
The 4th amendment has been repealed for TSA employees
Come join the new secret TSA world, be part of the police state of America
Come celebrate this brave new world with us, be a part of our team, help us violate the rights of every American
Join the TSA fuck the constitution team
TSA needs you now!


http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?se...cal&id=8250625

RALEIGH (WTVD) -- A 94-year-old wheelchair-bound Florida woman says a search she went through at Raleigh/Durham International Airport went too far.

Marian Peterson said it happened July 6 as she went through a TSA security checkpoint before boarding a flight home.

Peterson said she was selected for extra screening. First, security officers lifted her out of her wheelchair and helped her stand in a full body scanner. Then, she was given a physical pat down.

"They took me to one side and they patted me down, and they made me stand for, with my arms out, for over 10 minutes," she said. "I was beginning to feel that I wasn't going to be able to continue to stand, I was going to fall down or something."

"I asked, I said why are you doing this, and the woman was very polite and said 'I don't know, maybe the scanner detected something or maybe she moved,'" recalled Peterson's daughter Marian Malone.

Peterson's family said it's not just the length of the search they object to, it's the way it was done.

"She said it would be in-depth. She started the putdown, and at that point, she asked mom to spread her legs. She stood there with her legs spread and she checked every place thoroughly," said Malone.

"They groped her. All of her body. Her crotch, her breasts. And everything else," said son Joe Peterson.

[biteme]

So reality is TSA is not concerned about safety, only about taking rights from Americans
the grope children create guideline as you go, secret government police losses one
Americans fighting to take their country back from an abusive Government agency and its secret police

http://www.wtsp.com/news/reporter/ar...o-pay-overtime

But the TSA and the Federal Air Marshal Service, particularly the central Florida office, as we have reported before, had almost a hostile working relationship with its employees. The office decided it could work the Federal Air Marshals as many hours as it wanted each week without paying overtime, but a federal judge has said no you can't and now you're paying for that mistake with your tax dollars.

And as the Air Marshal explains now we are $106 million later and they see the errors of their ways. The $106 million is the amount a federal court awarded the Air Marshals after they filed their suit against the agency.

And while the TSA says," The scope of this lawsuit was limited to the procedures Federal Air Marshals were compensated for hours worked; not how Federal Air Marshals are scheduled for mission flights. The TSA adds this decision has not affected Federal Air Marshal Deployments. However the Air Marshals say the agency isn't phased by the huge payout. They say as long as they don't have to pay it out of their pocket, they don't care, it is taxpayer money.

[walkingeagle]

What I'm seeing in those articles is that the state is selling the contraband, not the TSA. I guess the state collects the trash and sells it instead of carting it off. Personally, I think they should donate it to the homeless and poor.

I see where you are getting that impression, and, in a way, I agree with you. What I see is stupidity and hypocrisy at it's finest! They can't take it on a plane? Why would they sell it to the general public?

[Tundratot]

I see where you are getting that impression, and, in a way, I agree with you. What I see is stupidity and hypocrisy at it's finest! They can't take it on a plane? Why would they sell it to the general public?

Well, when I wrote it I was actually thinking about the toiletries they confiscate, but the article was talking about snow globes and pocket knives. Clearly, we can all have dangerous snow globes, knitting needles, pocket knives and other potentially volatile mouthwash and hair dye with which to attack each other in the streets . . . until the TSA extends its reach, anyway.

Of course, the state doesn't have to worry about air safety anyway. They just worry about overflowing landfills. This isn't hypocrisy, it's recycling.

[walkingeagle]

I threw this out here yesterday, and "SURPRISE, SURPRISE" here comes the answer!

TSA catches passenger trying to carry-on 13 knives at BWI

LANHAM, Md. - TSA officers caught a passenger trying to smuggle knives through security at Baltimore/Washington International Thurgood Marshall Airport.

According to TSA, an officer operating the X-Ray machine saw something strange in a carry-on bag being screened, so another officer searched the bag and found 13 different knives.

[...]

http://www.abc2news.com/dpp/news/tsa...-knives-at-bwi

[Rockin Ma]

I heard on the news this morning, they may be modifying searches for frequent flyers. Less so for them to save time? I don't know, I didn't watch, but I thought I heard it rushing around this morning. The TV was on NBC I believe.

[Rockin Ma]

Got it

The U.S. Transportation Security Administration will start testing faster passenger screening, based on identity, at airports around the country this fall.
Some frequent fliers and U.S. citizens who are members of Customs and Border Protection’s Trusted Traveler programs will be eligible for the pre-flight screening program, TSA Administrator John S. Pistole said today in an e-mailed statement.
Participating airports and airlines will include AMR Corp.’s American Airlines from Miami International and Dallas-Fort Worth International airports and Delta Air Lines Inc. out of Detroit Metropolitan Wayne County and Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International airports. The program will expand to other airlines and airports.
“Allowing TSA to focus its finite resources on that which creates the greatest threat is both good policy and good security,” Nicholas E. Calio, chief executive officer of the Air Transport Association of America, said in a statement. ATA is a Washington-based trade group that represents U.S. airlines including American and Delta.
“Those airports are huge airports, they have a lot of diversity of the kinds of travelers that go through there, and the key thing is that American and Delta,” agreed to participate in the initial program, said Kevin Mitchell, chairman of the Business Travel Coalition. If the program is successful and expands to more airports, hubs are likely to be the next airports on the list, said Tim Smith, an American Airlines spokesman.
“We’re pleased and anxious to get started on the pilot program,” Smith said. “I think you could say the current screening process is pretty much a one-size fits all.”
Delta “is pleased” to participate in the pilot program and “hopes that any future large-scale implementation” will help bolster the carrier’s customer service, Susan Elliot, a spokeswoman, said in an e-mail.
The program’s success depends on reaching a high number of people using the program relatively quickly, Mitchell, whose Radnor, Pennsylvania-based group represents corporate travel managers. said in a telephone interview.
“You really need to reach 20 or so million travelers at the major airports,” he said. “I think from the point where the proof of concept” is approved by Pistole, “there ought to be a very meaningful, top-50 airport,” expansion within the year, he said.
Getting people to sign up will require “massive marketing and sales” or a free program, he said.
Select frequent flyers of the two airlines may be notified starting this week of their eligibility and will have to opt in to the program, according to ATA’s statement. The faster screenings will begin in the fall.
United Airlines, US Airways and Southwest Airlines are among the airlines that will be included in the second phase of the program if the “proof of concept is successful,” according to the ATA statement.

Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/07/1...#ixzz1SDS4TAFV

[CasperGirl]

I work at a smaller airport. I have two jobs there. I have to pass thru TSA several times a day. When I get randomly flagged for a pat down, I don't fuss because I know the agents are doing their jobs. When I have to carry ice cream thru TSA I know I am getting a pat down but its part of my job. We don't have the full body scanner but we do have a highly sensitive detector. Which makes the agents job even more difficult. There is a 5 year waiting list to get a job as TSA agent at my airport. These people go thru alot to get their jobs and even after they get them they still have maintain their records and such, like little things as having a bill go to collections can get you fired. And I see the stuff these agents go thru everyday and there is no way I would want their jobs. I don't have the personality for it. But I can say the agents at my airport do a damn good job. Also my airport is part of a large air force base. Alot of the military EOD training happens here. We have had them come in and show us just how little it takes to make a big enough explosion to bring down a plane. Its scary stuff. I know at bigger airports with alot more people going thru it gets hard for the TSA agents to keep up, thats no excuse, but its true. But no system is perfect. There never will be a perfect system. So if you wanna fly you have to deal with what we have now or don't fly. Its that simple. And as many pat downs as I have had now I have never been inapproriately touched. And the agents are very descriptive about what was going to happen during each step of the pat down so there was no surprises.

[TheMorningStar]

So if you wanna fly you have to deal with what we have now or don't fly. Its that simple.

I swear this is the only argument any of you have - its like a goddamn broken record in here.