TSA Outrage Etc...

[TheMorningStar]

It's the half-assed sense of security that is keeping us flying. The industry would also fall apart without it.

Thank you for this.
Now, the only thing we disagree about is "was it worth the price paid?". You say "Yes.", and I say "Hell no!".

[Dakota Valkyrie]

Now, the only thing we disagree about is "was it worth the price paid?". You say "Yes.", and I say "Hell no!".

That's because I use Hotwire when I fly. Much cheaper.

[Saffron]

Flying is dangerous in and of itself (much like LA). Even with 100% security you can still crash and burn. In the 70's we were all aware of the added danger of hijacking and bombs and yet we didn't have this reaction. Why do this now when the only thing that has changed is using planes as missiles? I gave a reasonable (and cheaper) solution above that doesn't destroy our 4th amendment rights.

Not true, it just didn't make the news. I was physically searched with my mother at JFK when I was about 6 years old on a trip to Germany due to all of the hijacking problems at the time. They STRIP searched my mother in front of me. I've not been horribly scarred. My mom explained there were bad guys trying to hurt people and they were making sure we were safe. They didn't just search a few people, they searched everyone that went on that airplane.

[TheMorningStar]

Not true, it just didn't make the news. I was physically searched with my mother at JFK when I was about 6 years old on a trip to Germany due to all of the hijacking problems at the time. They STRIP searched my mother in front of me. I've not been horribly scarred. My mom explained there were bad guys trying to hurt people and they were making sure we were safe. They didn't just search a few people, they searched everyone that went on that airplane.

At least back then when they did it, they did it right. None of this half-assed bullshit.

[Rockin Ma]

No body is being forced to have anything searched. Nobody is holding a gun to your head to get on a plane. They are perfectly free to leave the airport and seek other modes of travel. I don't see what's so hard about that.

I've never flown. If you show up and not like the search, can you decline and get your money back?

[Obsolete]

I've never flown. If you show up and not like the search, can you decline and get your money back?

If it's a refundable ticket, and with a fee.

[Lizard]

TSA avoids the whole woman muslim issue by not randomly selecting woman wearing a hijab

Impossible. If the selection process being used is "random selection," no person has control over who will be searched. Please don't toss around words like "randomly selecting" as if they have no meaning. Or if you think they sound really good and may buttress your argument.

[biteme]

Impossible. If the selection process being used is "random selection," no person has control over who will be searched. Please don't toss around words like "randomly selecting" as if they have no meaning. Or if you think they sound really good and may buttress your argument.

TSA says random, it's not they lie, just like they lie about groping children
The only ones that toss words with no meaning around to buttress their position is TSA
You can take TSA's word for their actions or what rest of the world sees and says, there's no law against being sheep


http://oldironsides-thesilentmajorit...nd-tsa-is.html
GOP lawmaker: I saw TSA pat down 'little old lady,' child, but not Arab man
By Keith Laing 05/25/11 12:33 PM ET
The Transportation Security Administration is too worried about "political correctness," according to a Republican lawmaker.

Rep. Paul Broun (R-Ga.), a member of the House Homeland Security Committee, said TSA is too politically correct when it chooses which passengers to search at airport security checkpoints.

[biteme]

It just goes on and on, sure seems TSA is lying about RANDOM searches, tossing that word around again

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...ing-in-hijabs/

Terrorists hiding in hijabs
Exemptions for Muslim women wearing traditional garb may be the brainchild of Mohamed Elibiary, who recently was made a member of the Homeland Security Advisory Council. Mr. Elibiary is president and chief executive officer of the Texas-based Freedom and Justice Foundation and a self-styled “de-radicalization expert” whose star has risen during the Obama presidency. He previously was appointed to Homeland Security’s Countering Violent Extremism Working Group and has testified before Congress as an expert on Muslim radicalism - a topic he seems to know well.

[Dakota Valkyrie]

It just goes on and on, sure seems TSA is lying about RANDOM searches, tossing that word around again

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...ing-in-hijabs/

Terrorists hiding in hijabs
Exemptions for Muslim women wearing traditional garb may be the brainchild of Mohamed Elibiary, who recently was made a member of the Homeland Security Advisory Council. Mr. Elibiary is president and chief executive officer of the Texas-based Freedom and Justice Foundation and a self-styled “de-radicalization expert” whose star has risen during the Obama presidency. He previously was appointed to Homeland Security’s Countering Violent Extremism Working Group and has testified before Congress as an expert on Muslim radicalism - a topic he seems to know well.

Some dude may have been the inventor of the idiotic suggestion to the TSA but that still does not mean the TSA is doing it... any more than TMS's suggestion that all be searched is now a TSA rule.

That editorial also says in it's title "Muslims seek special treatment to elude TSA groping" I guess if they are seeking it it means they aren't getting it. And I doubt they will.

[TheMorningStar]

Some dude may have been the inventor of the idiotic suggestion to the TSA but that still does not mean the TSA is doing it... any more than TMS's suggestion that all be searched is now a TSA rule.

Please show where I stated that searching everybody is a TSA rule. DO NOT put words in my mouth.

[Dakota Valkyrie]

Please show where I stated that searching everybody is a TSA rule. DO NOT put words in my mouth.

I didn't say thet you said it was a rule. What I meant was that because someone suggests something does not make it a rule. You suggested that everyone should be searched, right?

[biteme]

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2011/...8741310544000/

I don't know about you but to me 1% isn't that bad.

and from the link TMS posted above:

First of all TSA has no Idea what they missed because they missed it, saying 1% is just another TSA lie
Seems almost every time they are tested with outside agents carrying weapons on plains TSA did not discover the breach
TSA will not say what percentage they missed only that it happens, outside source , found more missed weapons by TSA than discovered
Problem is getting the information, TSA misinforms and lies, TSA lies for many reasons, it's an agency built on secrets and lies
Can you imagine missing 50 out of 70 bombs and claiming your miss ratio is 1% WTF!!

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/loaded...ry?id=12412458
Experts tell ABC News that every year since the September 11 terror attacks, federal agencies have conducted random, covert "red team tests," where undercover agents try to see just how much they can get past security checks at major U.S. airports. And while the Department of Homeland Security closely guards the results as classified, those that have leaked in media reports have been shocking.
According to one report, undercover TSA agents testing security at a Newark airport terminal on one day in 2006 found that TSA screeners failed to detect concealed bombs and guns 20 out of 22 times. A 2007 government audit leaked to USA Today revealed that undercover agents were successful slipping simulated explosives and bomb parts through Los Angeles's LAX airport in 50 out of 70 attempts, and at Chicago's O'Hare airport agents made 75 attempts and succeeded in getting through undetected 45 times.

[TheMorningStar]

I didn't say thet you said it was a rule. What I meant was that because someone suggests something does not make it a rule. You suggested that everyone should be searched, right?

Correct, I suggested that everybody should be searched
but you said...

any more than TMS's suggestion that all be searched is now a TSA rule.

I never suggested that all be searched is now a TSA rule.

[Dakota Valkyrie]

Correct, I suggested that everybody should be searched
but you said...

I never suggested that all be searched is now a TSA rule.

So I worded it poorly or made puctuation error or something.

The intended meaning still remains that just because someone makes a suggestion does not mean it is a TSA rule. THAT is what I meant. Just because the dude suggested that TSA not search Muslims does not mean TSA enacted it as a rule any more than you (or anyone) making a suggestion means it is an automatic TSA rule.

Biteme seemed to be trying to say that certain Muslims were not being searched as part of TSA guidelines/rules. I was only pointing out that the guy was making a suggestion and that it wasn't a rule.

[biteme]

Double post

[biteme]

If it's a refundable ticket, and with a fee.

http://lonelyconservative.com/2010/1...t-the-airport/

http://lonelyconservative.com/2010/1...t-the-airport/
Say you get to the airport fully prepared to be subjected to a naked body scan or a groping by a TSA agent, but then you change your mind. Maybe the lady in front of you got groped in such a way that turns you off, and you say “no thanks.” You won’t get on the plane, and worse yet, you can be arrested and fined up to $11,000.

[biteme]

Some dude may have been the inventor of the idiotic suggestion to the TSA but that still does not mean the TSA is doing it... any more than TMS's suggestion that all be searched is now a TSA rule.

That editorial also says in it's title "Muslims seek special treatment to elude TSA groping" I guess if they are seeking it it means they aren't getting it. And I doubt they will.

lot of sheep in this world, TSA loves them, makes taking rights away easy

[Dakota Valkyrie]

From the actual article that is linked in the above blog:

Koshetz said such passengers would be questioned "until it is determined that they don't pose a threat" to the public.
[...]

No one will be forcibly searched or arrested "just because they refuse to go through the security procedures," Barbera said. "That may rise to the level of suspicious behavior for the TSA, but it wouldn't rise to the level of suspicious behavior for a deputy," she said.

But Barbera said that if a person is judged to be a possible threat, deputies are legally permitted to detain and search that individual. "The deputies will do it at the airport just as they would do it anywhere else," she said.

Once cleared by the TSA and deputies, the people will be allowed to leave, she said.

http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/201...t-sari-koshetz

So, in other words, if you just don't want to get groped and just say so, you go on your merry way. Unless you are intent on making an ass of yourself.

[biteme]

From the actual article that is linked in the above blog:
http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/201...t-sari-koshetz

So, in other words, if you just don't want to get groped and just say so, you go on your merry way. Unless you are intent on making an ass of yourself.

Again it's up to the uneducated TSA groper to decide if you will go home or jail
TSA loves

http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/201...t-sari-koshetz
The Transportation Security Administration (TSA) is warning that any would-be commercial airline passenger who enters an airport checkpoint and then refuses to undergo the method of inspection designated by TSA will not be allowed to fly and also will not be permitted to simply leave the airport.
oshetz said such passengers would be questioned "until it is determined that they don't pose a threat" to the public.

[Dakota Valkyrie]

Again it's up to the uneducated TSA groper to decide if you will go home or jail

Are you for real??? Read the article. That's why the link is provided.

The TSA turns them over to the local deputies. THEY make the decision. What are they going to charge a rational person with that just doesn't want to get groped? Unless you are saying "I don't want to get on the planes because I have a bomb in my bra" I highly doubt there is much they can hold you on.

Idiots that sheeple the conspirocy blogs are the worst.

[Obsolete]

GOP lawmaker: I saw TSA pat down 'little old lady,' child, but not Arab man

Random screenings means that yea, not EVERY person who wears a head covering is going to be searched, it also means that occasionally it will be an old lady, a business man or sometimes a child. Thats why it's called RANDOM!

It isn't like there aren't any Arabs or women wearing head coverings being screened but as soon as someone sees an Arab person skip screenings while an "innocent" looking person gets stopped...well then it must be a conspiracy.

You know what's worse that being a "sheep"? Being a conspirasist who accuses everyone that doesn't agree with him of being sheep.

ETA: I don't support the notion that children should be exempt from screenings. For years people have used children to smuggle drugs because no one ever searches the kids. What's stopping a terrorist from using a child? Nothing.

[Tundratot]

I have to interject here that the option not to fly does not guarantee you won't be subjected to TSA anymore, unless you walk or drive yourself. Remember recently there was an article where the TSA ambushed a bus station? It's getting to be impossible to avoid them.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...your-bus-stop/
http://blog.tsa.gov/2011/02/screenin...-savannah.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...net-napolitano

[biteme]

Are you for real??? Read the article. That's why the link is provided.

The TSA turns them over to the local deputies. THEY make the decision. What are they going to charge a rational person with that just doesn't want to get groped? Unless you are saying "I don't want to get on the planes because I have a bomb in my bra" I highly doubt there is much they can hold you on.

Idiots that sheeple the conspirocy blogs are the worst.

It's from your link, guess you can read into it what you want, conspiracy theorist, TSA Government sheeple
or realist, if you're not willing to fight for it, you will lose it.
don't question their Government secret agencies just drink the koolaid


http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/201...t-sari-koshetz
The Transportation Security Administration (TSA) is warning that any would-be commercial airline passenger who enters an airport checkpoint and then refuses to undergo the method of inspection designated by TSA will not be allowed to fly and also will not be permitted to simply leave the airport.
oshetz said such passengers would be questioned "until it is determined that they don't pose a threat" to the public.

[biteme]

Random screenings means that yea, not EVERY person who wears a head covering is going to be searched, it also means that occasionally it will be an old lady, a business man or sometimes a child. Thats why it's called RANDOM!

It isn't like there aren't any Arabs or women wearing head coverings being screened but as soon as someone sees an Arab person skip screenings while an "innocent" looking person gets stopped...well then it must be a conspiracy.

You know what's worse that being a "sheep"? Being a conspiratist who accuses everyone that doesn't agree with him of being sheep.

ETA: I don't support the notion that children should be exempt from screenings. For years people have used children to smuggle drugs because no one ever searches the kids. What's stopping a terrorist from using a child? Nothing.

If not willing to accept a secretive lying government agency at face value makes me a conspiratist so be it
when TSA tells me they only miss 1%, How the fuck can anyone know what they missed if they missed it
when other agencies tell me TSA misses 70% , if not believing anything TSA says makes me a conspiratist so be it
All I know about TSA is lying is their strength

[Obsolete]

If not willing to accept a secretive lying government agency at face value makes me a conspiratist so be it
when TSA tells me they only miss 1%, How the fuck can anyone know what they missed if they missed it
when other agencies tell me TSA misses 70% , if not believing anything TSA says makes me a conspiratist so be it
All I know about TSA is lying is their strength

TSA never said they missed 1% of anything. They said they have had 25K security breaches since 2001, taking into the amount of passengers they've had in that time, the average is at 1%. Within that 1% you have to account for misplaced baggage, a child running through a gate into a restricted area, grandma bringing a pair of nail clippers onto a plane and many other innocent misakes. Not every one of those 25K breaches were a threat.

[TheMorningStar]

TSA never said they missed 1% of anything. They said they have had 25K security breaches since 2001, taking into the amount of passengers they've had in that time, the average is at 1%. Within that 1% you have to account for misplaced baggage, a child running through a gate into a restricted area, grandma bringing a pair of nail clippers onto a plane and many other innocent misakes. Not every one of those 25K breaches were a threat.

Careful there, as I stated before this is an obscuring statistic and is meaningless. It is supposed to make you feel good.
A real statistic would be the # of breaches out of the # of attempts. For all we know that 1% really means 80% of attempts are successful.

[Obsolete]

Careful there, as I stated before this is an obscuring statistic and is meaningless. It is supposed to make you feel good.
A real statistic would be the # of breaches out of the # of attempts. For all we know that 1% really means 80% of attempts are successful.

I never feel good or safe while on a plane. I fucking HATE flying but I deal with it.

The 25K IS the number of breaches, not the number of attempts. They aren't saying these people attempted to breach security (I'm sure that number is too high to calculate) that are saying this is the number of ACTUAL breaches.

[walkingeagle]

I am more interested in the figures on exactly what they have prevented!

[Obsolete]

I am more interested in the figures on exactly what they have prevented!

That would mean they would have to document everytime someone walks the wrong way at the gate, or has too big of a bottle of lotion in their carry on...it would be almost impossible (not to mention irrelevant) to do.