The Dark Side of Human Genetics

[Athena]

Genetics is a beautiful thing, right? We can pinpoint and potentially exclude predispositions in an effort to produce a healthier human being, one less likely to stuggle from the illnesses and conditions that plague us.

But, what if a couple used this technology to intentionally handicap and produce a deaf child?

John and Karen - not their real names - are both deaf, and desperately wanted a deaf baby. But genetic testing showed that this was extremely unlikely. "They were devastated," recalls Arti Pandya, a clinical geneticist at Virginia Commonwealth University in Richmond, who counselled the couple. It was two years before they got over their disappointment and started trying to conceive their first child.

The couple's attitude will shock many people. If you can hear, it's hard to understand why anyone would want a deaf child. But John and Karen's views are not that unusual among those who identify themselves as 'Deaf' with a capital 'D'. The Deaf view their condition not as a disability, but rather as the underpinning of a rich culture that should be celebrated and preserved. And with the identification of the most common genetic mutations linked to deafness, it is now possible, in theory, to make an active choice to have a deaf child.

This possibility turns the debate over designer babies on its head, providing ethicists and genetic counsellors with a dilemma. Only a tiny minority of deaf people would wish to use genetic tests in this way.
Some argue that their reproductive choices should be respected. But is society prepared to sanction the use of genetic diagnosis for a purpose that many find difficult to understand - and some might even see as immoral?

Full article

I'm not even sure what to think, yet. I was immediately appalled, but there's a lot to consider, here.

What do you think? Should we regulate against using genetic technology in this manner?

[Countess Olenska]

There is a reason we are born with ears and the ability to hear. Purposely having child to embrace your own lack of hearing is selfish. Don't parents want children to be born healthy with all the working equipment? To agree with this is the tip of the iceberg. Yes, you could lead a wonderful life with out the ability to hear but what about the people who abuse it?

It not different than wanting a child to be born with Downs syndrome because they are happy children. What about the other possible problems associated with it like congenital heart defects, GERD, sleep apnea and thyroid issues? It's not about the parents wanting a baby "just like them" it's about the child.

[gprime]

I'm glad you brought this up, as such an idea had never even crossed my mind. When it comes to using scientific advancement to remove handicaps that ail man, I see only good in applying it as widely as possible. That isn't endorsing eugenics-style breeding controls, but manipulating genes among mates in the way we now know is possible. Using such technology to worsen a child is outrageous, and sets off an instant alarm. But ethically, I'm not sure how to resolve this dilemma. I don't believe the unborn have rights, but if you're manipulating genes, you clearly intend the child to live. In that case, you're having a major and unalterable impact upon your child. So how can both sides be addressed fairly?

Something I could see this having a serious impact on is violent crime. Some evidence suggests that XYY males, who could be spawned at much higher rates from this, are more prone to violence. And I hope I'm not alone in seeing some crazed dads wanting to create super-athlete sons trying exactly that, creating some serious consequences that they don't consider. How do we deal with something like that?

[Death Angel]

I'm with them but then I'm not. you are taking away a beautiful thing. a persons voice... great lovely music... being normal...and maybe his/her life if things don't go right. but like it said its NOT handicap its an

"underpinning of a rich culture that should be celebrated and preserved"

it would (i think) make him/her a better person.. how many deaf people do you know to go rape people or kill someone (thats not in self defense) it builds character. plus i don't think any of us know what its like to be deaf. it might be a great thing you may lose 1 thing and gain another in return. so I'm for them but them I'm not. the mother is the one who has to carries it and have the baby so it should be up to her.

[celtic friend]

You lost me Death Angel, the mother should have a right to choose to knowingly disable her child? What comes next, altering genes to make some kids have flippers so they "fit" in with their parents at the circus? This is all wrong, there is no way to say it any other way. These babies will one day soon be separate beings from their parents, they are not property of their parents, they are not a fucking little doll, these are human beings. What is totally f'ed up IMO is how these humans are just being manipulated and treated like property like a "I'll take a blonde deaf boy, make him like books hate fatty food, oh and give him some muscles nothing too big of course." Like a damn food order.

[Death Angel]

You lost me Death Angel, the mother should have a right to choose to knowingly disable her child? What comes next, altering genes to make some kids have flippers so they "fit" in with their parents at the circus? This is all wrong, there is no way to say it any other way. These babies will one day soon be separate beings from their parents, they are not property of their parents, they are not a fucking little doll, these are human beings. What is totally f'ed up IMO is how these humans are just being manipulated and treated like property like a "I'll take a blonde deaf boy, make him like books hate fatty food, oh and give him some muscles nothing too big of course." Like a damn food order.

this is going to sound all to hell wrong but yes people should be treated like property. way back when people did get treated like property they didn't do to many things that you would call bad. cause the kids were scared to do anything bad cause they would get smacked in the face. I'm sure everyone here got smacked in the face when you said something bad or did something bad. now you cant even hit your kids. and they do what they want. thats why this sites up cause people get worse and worse some one said in a post here. they keep getting younger and younger. and older people (i think)know what there doing. there still here right? and im not saying that im right im still young im 22 But its what i THINK. i got smacked in the face all the time i came out great compared to others my age. and i thank them for it. all my friends moms love me. im referred to as the polite boy/kid. its just how i feel.

[CPL CHUD]

Genetic technology, like any technology, should be regulated. To what ends it is to be regulated is dependent upon the objective moral sphere of the society being regulated, which is just a fancy way of saying that it needs to be examined more closely and bounced off of the sensitivities of the public. What hurts the common good? If we allow the parents to alter genetics to the detriment of their child, or for cosmetic reasons, I don't think that the potential risk to the individual and to society is worth it, or serves any greater good. I don't even think that we should be muddling with genes at this point in the game. Biology, especially when dealing with genetics, is not an concise science and we don't need to be getting ahead of ourselves.

And I don't think the term "property" should apply to human beings. Caretaking, and ownership, are two different things. You have the right to destroy everything you own, but not what the state declares you caretake, and the state says you must caretake your children. I think that the term caretaker should even apply to the pets you take responsibility for.

[celtic friend]

My Dad was severely abused by his alcoholic father. He hit me twice growing up, and they made an impact because I recall them clear as the day.
1. I was maybe 11 and disrespected my Mom, she called my Dad and he smacked me with the belt 2 times.
2. I was crying hysterically because I could not find my schoolbag when he came to pick me up to do homework with him after school, he slapped me to get me to calm down.

Kids are still getting hit, don't let anyone fool ya with that shit. I don't believe in spanking, have I out of frustration yeah, and it didn't do a damn thing but make me feel like shit. Just because of someone's age should not dicate whether I can hurt them.
For the parents that hit all of the time, I suppose the effect wears off too, like the kids become numb to it.
Kids aren't getting attention, they aren't have guidance they are treated as mini adults at a younger and younger age with little supervision. Kids need real parents, not smacks.

Now back to the subject, people should not be able to purposefully defect their child.

[celtic friend]

CPL,
Did you know that we still do not know all of the genes that control eye color?
I think we have some ways too go.

[CPL CHUD]

CPL,
Did you know that we still do not know all of the genes that control eye color?
I think we have some ways too go.

Oh yeah, we are still in the dark about that.


Get it, "in the dark", pun.......

[Lizard]

Genetic technology, like any technology, should be regulated. To what ends it is to be regulated is dependent upon the objective moral sphere of the society being regulated, which is just a fancy way of saying that it needs to be examined more closely and bounced off of the sensitivities of the public.

The thought of this scares the shit out of me. Regulation means standards, and standards are never free of politics.

[swivel]

I think it is unfair to do this to the future adult that this person will become. It is selfish for the parents to see their children as vessels of THEIR joy, rather than humans in their own right.

If they want a deaf child, they should wait until the kid is 18 and then ask him if they can remove his hearing. Since we all know what the kid's answer will be, it is unfair.

Likewise, if we can fix a genetic fault that stunts a child's growth, to half their normal height, I think we all know what the kid would say, at 18, about our decision to do so.

This is why I think it is OK to fix genetic problems, but not OK to create designer babies. We need to make a best guess about what the future adult would want, and create laws to protect these potential people.

[Athena]

This is why I think it is OK to fix genetic problems, but not OK to create designer babies. We need to make a best guess about what the future adult would want, and create laws to protect these potential people.

I agree with this.

What caught me up initially was the thought that regulating to protect the unborn could have a deeper impact than intended. One minute, we're protecting fetuses against detrimental genetic manipulation, the next, we're incarcerating women who drink when they're pregnant or ignore doctors orders of bed rest.

But, I think this can be easily enough avoided by putting the focus on the industry rather than the fetus. We can make it less about unborn rights and more about technology restriction. Establish that we will not use this capability to administer what can reasonably be conceived as harm to a fetus.

[nurseronda]

Genetics is a beautiful thing, right? We can pinpoint and potentially exclude predispositions in an effort to produce a healthier human being, one less likely to stuggle from the illnesses and conditions that plague us.

But, what if a couple used this technology to intentionally handicap and produce a deaf child?

Athena, when they can modify the gene that makes a person kill another human being then I am all for that modification. Modification can only lead to one thing, mutant genes being activated that may cause more disease and problems for the human that the genes have been modified. Have you ever played the games: Doom, Duke Nukem or Half-life? That is what I think may happen to the genetic modified humans if they go too far in trying to create the perfect human. :D

[celtic friend]

In all honesty, having a child with a congenital "defect' (btw they call them "differences" now) leaves me feeling confused about how I really feel.
There a lot of studies going on right now to determine where all of these differences come from. I am not sure what they are going to do with it all? Like they know about 22q deletion, so then do we abortion every child with 22q deletion or do we fix the little piece of missing chromosome? Are we advancing in science so we can delete these people from ever existing? We already have amnio with the option to abort, I don't know how I feel about this, is there a way to be so happy to have my child who has a difference and still hope they can delete these potential people? Like can we end up with the same child, just w/o the difference?

[Death Angel]

Athena, when they can modify the gene that makes a person kill another human being then I am all for that modification. Modification can only lead to one thing, mutant genes being activated that may cause more disease and problems for the human that the genes have been modified. Have you ever played the games: Doom, Duke Nukem or Half-life? That is what I think may happen to the genetic modified humans if they go too far in trying to create the perfect human.

i was thing just thinking the same thing making some deaf person and have them come out looking like The Fly and shit

If they want a deaf child, they should wait until the kid is 18 and then ask him if they can remove his hearing. Since we all know what the kid's answer will be, it is unfair.

thats like giving a person a bunch of crack then after 18 years of this, take it away. thats unfair! if they never had it. they don't have anything to miss

[dop]

it would (i think) make him/her a better person.. how many deaf people do you know to go rape people or kill someone (thats not in self defense) it builds character.

Here

Sorry man but this romanticism of handicaped people's character is bullshit, people with disabilities are just as prone to character flaws as any one with all their capabilities, you just know of less cases because there are less disabled people around.

[Mom of 4]

I think it is unfair to do this to the future adult that this person will become. It is selfish for the parents to see their children as vessels of THEIR joy, rather than humans in their own right.

If they want a deaf child, they should wait until the kid is 18 and then ask him if they can remove his hearing. Since we all know what the kid's answer will be, it is unfair.

Likewise, if we can fix a genetic fault that stunts a child's growth, to half their normal height, I think we all know what the kid would say, at 18, about our decision to do so.

This is why I think it is OK to fix genetic problems, but not OK to create designer babies. We need to make a best guess about what the future adult would want, and create laws to protect these potential people.

Thanks Swivel! You said this much better than I would have and I agree 100% with you.

[Lizard]

Sorry man but this romanticism of handicaped people's character is bullshit, people with disabilities are just as prone to character flaws as any one with all their capabilities, you just know of less cases because there are less disabled people around.

And hell, maybe character has less to do with it than the simple fact that disabled people have fewer resources with which to "express" their character flaws. A guy with no arms probably isn't going to beat someone to death with a bat, and you're unlikely to awaken in the middle of the night to discover a blind man standing at the foot of your bed. (Unless you live with a blind guy, of course.)