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Thread: The Cordoba House (Mosque)

  1. #511
    Knight
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    Well, everyone's thrown out in their two cents and I found out that someone on here loathes Chinese folks.

    And Pete was sadly on target about the race thing and folks not being willing to say anything against muslims(if they are liberal..the speakers that is) as not to appear bigoted. That being said, whoever said that folks who know alot about Christianity to the point of knowing too much, loathe it. It's true.

    I'm a brown former fundie. On my worst day, I was one level below the Westboro Church. On a good day, I was ambivalent.

    What made me leave the faith I was raised in was the realization of three things:

    1. If a woman can be sexually attacked by a leader at the church and no one does anything about it...that these folks are just feeding into the cycle of more girls getting harmd(and more were).

    2. What makes me a good person is not that I jumped through all the hoops to become Jesus' homegirl. What makes me "good" is that I try to always choose kindness over malice. I have my own code which if compared to any of the religions around the world, would fit: do good to others, respect your parents, and don't do anything you wouldn't done back to you.

    3. The whole idea of hell. It seemed a bit unfair to me honestly. Why is it that my friends(at the time) who were living good, moral lives (religiously motivated or no) would be thrown headfirst into hell because they didn't follow the rules of the denomination which was the majority? Also, why would other christians condemn their fellow believers to hell? Is the christian walk so fragmented that if you are a good baptist, you still could go to hell in the other denominations because you didn't toe their lines either?
    And suicides. Why do they go to hell because they were suffering so much that they deemed life to be too heavy a weight? And it goes on and on.

    I asked these questions(among other things) and was shut out, ignored, or had rumors spread about me that I was a "difficult" member. I actually got kicked out of cell group because of my questions. And if you didn't have a cell group, you had no one because it's almost like you get a sign put on you which says "freak".

    After alot of reading and learning about religons here and there, I'm just content with the term "nontheist".

    Despite this, I give Christianity the respect I give every other religion: as long as no one tries to force it on me, I do not care. I will fight for their right to fellowship as long it does not impede on the rights of another/is illegal.

    So yeah, muslims can do their thing as long it doesn't harm another. So yes, I'd speak out on the more extreme tennants(that not ever Muslim shares anyway).

    But truth be told, folks would complain even if it was a pagan worship center. Oh, and there are Christian Terrorists too. They come in every stripe and color, so let's not fein innocence.
    It is within peoples nature to complain, deride, and even strike out at others. It takes great stregnth to realize that part of you and work to starve it and feed the better parts of you. It's something that I learned a few years ago, and may not completely master it until I expire. But i'll try regardless.
    I'm gonna hug you!

    -Gir, Invader Zim

  2. #512
    FORUM BITCH / Beloved Cunt
    Dakota Valkyrie's Avatar
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    Developers of Islamic Center Try a New Strategy
    A year after controversy engulfed plans to build a Muslim community center and mosque in Lower Manhattan, the project’s developers are quietly moving ahead: In recent months they have hired a paid staff, started fund-raising drives and continued holding prayers and cultural events in their existing building two blocks from ground zero.

    But they have also embraced what they call a slower, more deliberate and more realistic approach to the project, acknowledging it will take years of hard work to determine what kind of facilities Muslim and non-Muslim visitors want and need, to raise money, and to build public support.

    That means it could be five years before they even try to begin any physical transformation of the property, now a bare-bones building that once housed a Burlington Coat Factory store. And the Muslim center might never become the 15-story, $100 million edifice that the developers had once envisioned, and that some opponents had labeled a “megamosque.”
    [...]

    Sharif El-Gamal, the lead developer, who controls the property at 45-51 Park Place, has spent the past year trying to regroup. He has severed ties with the project’s original imam, Feisal Abdul Rauf. He has crisscrossed the country to attract donors, built relationships with neighborhood groups and Muslim organizations and recruited the aunt of a 9/11 victim to his advisory board — all things he says he should have done before going public last year.

    “Everything was backward,” Mr. El-Gamal, 37, acknowledged in an interview on Wednesday in his Chelsea real estate office. “We’re going back to basics.”

    Mr. El-Gamal said his vision remained: a Muslim-led community center modeled on the Jewish Community Center on the Upper West Side, where his children learned to swim. It would be open to all, with a pool, a theater and cultural, religious and interfaith programming. And the site, which is already used for Muslim worship, would include a mosque.

    He said the ultimate form of the center, called Park51, and its building would be determined after consultation with two main audiences, residents of Lower Manhattan and Muslims who live in New York, New Jersey and Connecticut. Mr. El-Gamal also said he would assess the community response to the events now held at Park51’s makeshift space, varying from art exhibits and yoga and Brazilian martial arts classes to Muslim holiday observances and a discussion for Muslim and non-Muslim children about bullying.

    “If the community only wants four or five floors, it’s going to be four or five floors,” Mr. El-Gamal said.

    One thing that is not in question, he said, is the center’s location. Legally, he is entitled to operate a religious institution there; the project required no zoning approval, though it was voluntarily presented to Manhattan’s Community Board 1, which approved it in May 2010.

    Prayers have been held in the building since 2009, when Mr. El-Gamal and his partners bought it to provide prayer space for Muslims who work downtown and had worshiped for decades in two small, crowded mosques nearby.
    [...]

    Mr. El-Gamal said he was disturbed that his project had been swept up in public discussion of 9/11, which he recalls as “an attack on my city.”

    “To see that you’re in the middle of causing neighbors or other human beings angst or distress or adding to their grief is not a pleasant feeling,” he said. “At the same time, we had nothing to do with those events, and those events defaced our religion.”
    [...]

    Inside the unmarked building, the center is busy with events that showcase its multiple goals. Throughout Ramadan, the Muslim holy month that begins this week, the space will host nightly meals to break the fast, and other events. This fall, the center plans an exhibit called NYChildren Photography, by Danny Goldfield, a Brooklyn photographer who is trying to take pictures of one New York City boy or girl born in each of the world’s countries. In July, at a preview of the exhibit, a band played and several dozen visitors nibbled snacks and admired portraits of children from Japan, Guinea and Afghanistan.

    And last Friday in the building, the planners held a dinner for New York Muslim groups to raise money for the mosque, which will be called PrayerSpace. Fund-raising is being done separately for the mosque and the community center, though the same people oversee both efforts; money will not be accepted from sources that Mr. El-Gamal said did not reflect “American values.” He said he was seeking to raise $7 million to $10 million to finance a “transitional phase” of both facilities.

    Leaders of several Muslim community organizations, some of whom were upset last year that they were not consulted about Park51 before it became the center of national controversy, said in interviews that Mr. El-Gamal had mended fences with them.

    At the same time, Mr. El-Gamal said he would no longer have an imam as the center’s public face. Personality conflicts and philosophical and tactical disagreements ended his relationship with Mr. Abdul Rauf, whose views were criticized by opponents and whom some Muslims said was out of touch with their concerns.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/02/ny...ound-zero.html
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  4. #513
    Great Marshal TheZeitgeist's Avatar
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    I say let them build mosque-community-center-whatever thingy. It is there right. And when synagogue goes up next door, that's there right too. And when Scientologists bust out some Flagland Base across the street let'em roll. And when the imam complains to local authorities about noise ordinances from Daft Punk Fridays at the local gay-tranny hangout which opened behind the mosque, well, tough shit. Free is free.

    One thing that irritates me more than anything about Islamic shit is its all about their rights. And I'm down. But then they get their panties twisted up - and in places like Pakistan people look up from their shit-hand-to-mouth existence grinding below the poverty level between the Spring earthquake and Winter flood - just long enough to riot because some dude in a country they don't care about drew a fucking cartoon.

  5. #514
    Squire
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    I'm all for less government and because of this and because it's just a religious place, I don't care that Park51 is being built. I'm sure throughout the U.S. there are people who don't want a casino or strip club or liquor store built but we do live in America and as long as they abide by the zoning laws and other city ordinances, they can build whatever. I also think that most people visiting the Freedom Towers and 9/11 memorial would never know where Park51 is, although now that the name is basically the address, it might be easier to find.

  6. #515
    Grand Prince
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    Get your Burkas on Bitches, we cant stop sharia law in the United States even if we want to.

    Muslim Leader Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf Commends Appeal Courts Blocking Oklahoma Ban on Shariah Law

    New York City –January 12, 2012 —The 10th circuit federal court of appeals ruled unconstitutional the Oklahoma amendment to ban Islamic Law. Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, Chairman Cordoba Initiative says “What a wonderful declaration for religious freedom in the US with the federal court of appeals recognizing that this amendment violated freedom of religion and violated the constitutional rights of Muslims who practice Shariah law.”

    Imam Feisal continues “Shariah, Islamic Law, is generally and specifically compatible with the American Declaration of Independence, Constitution, and political system.” Imam Feisal has written extensively on this topic including this article Justification and Theory of Sharia Law: How the American Declaration of Independence, Bill of Rights and Constitution are Consistent with Islamic Jurisprudence for the University of St. Thomas Law Journal in 2010.
    http://www.cordobainitiative.org/201...n-shariah-law/
    "Where the fuck am I ? - Amelia Earhart, 1937

    You can say lots of bad things about pedophiles, but at least they drive slowly past schools.->malq

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  8. #516
    The Shakedown King Pete Bondurant's Avatar
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    I just don't comprehend these fucking liberals. They hate Christians. They believe the "Christian right" is the most dangerous movement on earth, this despite the fact that after five terms of Republican Presidents and twelve years of Republican control of the House of Representatives.....Roe vs. Wade is still the law of the land, prayer is prohibited in public schools and nativity scenes on public grounds are routinely removed by the force of law....sodomites are marrying one another...yet.......yet.......these stupid fucking liberals seem to go out of their way to embrace a religion (Islam) that promotes violence against women and homosexuals. I have come to the conclusion that if most Muslims were white people, instead of being brown....the liberals would be almost violently opposed to Islam.
    Yet know, my master, God omnipotent,
    Is mustering in his clouds on our behalf
    Armies of pestilence; and they shall strike
    Your children yet unborn and unbegot,
    That lift your vassal hands against my head
    And threat the glory of my precious crown.

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  10. #517
    Grand King
    Rockin Ma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by malq View Post
    Get your Burkas on Bitches, we cant stop sharia law in the United States even if we want to.



    http://www.cordobainitiative.org/201...n-shariah-law/
    As far as I can tell, Shariah Law isn't even itself really established, although I'm getting my info from Wiki so how can it be specifically compatible with the Declaration of Independence since there are a vast amount of differing views and beliefs on it?

    Islamic jurisprudence (see Fiqh) interprets and extends the application of sharia to questions not directly addressed in the primary sources by including secondary sources. These secondary sources usually include the consensus of the religious scholars embodied in ijma, and analogy from the Quran and Sunnah through qiyas. Shia jurists prefer to apply reasoning ('aql) rather than analogy in order to address difficult questions.
    Muslims believe sharia is God's law, but they differ as to what exactly it entails.[2] Modernists, traditionalists and fundamentalists all hold different views of sharia, as do adherents to different schools of Islamic thought and scholarship. Different countries, societies and cultures have varying interpretations of sharia as well.
    Sharia, in its strictest definition, is a divine law, as expressed in the Qur'an and Muhammad's example (often called the sunnah). As such, it is related to but different from fiqh, which is emphasized as the human interpretation of the law.[23][24] Many scholars have pointed out that the sharia is not formally a code,[25] nor a well-defined set of rules.[26] The sharia is characterized as a discussion on the duties of Muslims[25] based on both the opinion of the Muslim community and extensive literature.[27] Hunt Janin and Andre Kahlmeyer thus conclude that the sharia is "long, diverse, and complicated."[26]
    In addition to the "Basic Code" of the Quran and Sunnah, traditional Sunni Muslims also add the consensus (ijma) of Muhammad's companions (sahaba) and Islamic jurists (ulema) on certain issues. In situations where no concrete rule exists in the sources, law scholars use qiyas — various forms of reasoning, including analogy, to derive law from the essence of divine principles and preceding rulings. The consensus of the community, public interest, and other sources are used as an adjunct to sharia where the primary and secondary sources allow.[35] This description can be applied to the major schools of Sunni fiqh, which include the Hanafi, Shafi'i, Maliki and Hanbali. The Zahiri madhhab, though small, is often considered a Sunni school of thought as well.[36] The Salafi movement also looks to the actions and sayings of the first three generations of Muslims for guidance, in addition to the Quran and Sunnah, attracting followers from many Muslim cultures and schools of fiqh.[37]
    Shi'a Muslims also extend the "Basic Code" with fiqh, and in some aspects reject analogy. At the same time, they believe Islam was long designed to meet today's innovations and culture. During the period after Prophet's death, Sunni scholars developed, at the same time the Shi'a Imams were alive teaching and spreading the original message of Islam. Since the twelve Imams are descendants of the Prophet's family, Shi'a believe they have a greater right on leadership and spreading the message of Islam, as a result Shi'a view them as an extension of the original Sunnah taught by the Prophet himself. A recurring theme in Shi'a jurisprudence is logic (mantiq),[38] something most Shi'a believe they mention, employ and value to a higher degree than most Sunnis do. They do not view logic as a third source for laws, rather a way to see if the derived work is compatible with the Quran and Sunnah.
    In Imami-Shi'i law, the sources of law (usul al-fiqh) are the Quran, anecdotes of Muhammad's practices and those of The Twelve Imams, and the intellect ('aql). The practices called Sharia today, however, also have roots in comparative law[39] and local customs (urf).[35]
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia
    The link goes on to detail the actual laws kinda like the ten commandments some follow, then legal and court proceedings, then to punishment

    The punishment depends on whether the criminal was convicted of qesas, hudud or tazir.
    In a tazir crime, the penalty would be usually a prison sentence, corporal punishment in some countries, or a execution in a more serious case (such as a case that was not prosecuted as hudud, like rape/drug trafficking). Since hudud crimes are extremely hard to punish, this is the usual route that would be taken. Stoning and amputation would certainly not be carried out in a tazir sentence, and the punishment would not be fixed, but discretionary. Most countries have a civil code that regulates the penalties that should be received in a tazir crime, such as a death sentence in the case of drug trafficking, aggravated rape, or prison time in the case of other offenses.
    In the rarest of rare case (more common in Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan ) when a person is convicted of a hudud crime, the punishment is much harsher.
    In accordance with the Quran and several hadith, theft is punished by imprisonment or amputation of hands.[126] Several requirements are in place for the amputation of hands, they are:
    There must have been criminal intent to take private (not common) property.
    The theft must not have been the product of hunger, necessity, or duress.
    The goods stolen must: be over a minimum value, not haraam, and not owned by the thief's family.
    Goods must have been taken from custody (i.e., not in a public place).
    There must be reliable witnesses.
    All of these must be met under the scrutiny of judicial authority.[Quran 5:38][127]
    In accordance with hadith, stoning to death is the penalty for married men and women who commit adultery. In addition, there are several conditions related to the person who commits it that must be met. One of the difficult ones is that the punishment cannot be enforced unless there is a confession of the person, or four male eyewitnesses who each saw the act being committed. All of these must be met under the scrutiny of judicial authority[128] For unmarried men and women, the punishment prescribed in the Quran and hadith is 100 lashes.[129]
    The "four witness" standard comes from the Quran itself, a revelation Muhammad announced in response to accusations of adultery leveled at his wife, Aisha: "Why did they not produce four witnesses? Since they produce not witnesses, they verily are liars in the sight of Allah."[Quran 24:13]
    Punishments are authorized by other passages in the Quran and hadiths for certain crimes (e.g., extramarital sex, adultery), and are employed by some as rationale for extra-legal punitive action while others disagree:
    “The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication—flog each of them with hundred stripes: Let no compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by God, if ye believe in God and the last day.”[Quran 24:2] “Nor come nigh to adultery: for it is a shameful (deed) and an evil, opening the road (to other evils).”[Quran 17:32]
    Dear Mommy...I see you smile down there below...are those tears of joy you show? I'm glad you're happy, although you lied...I'd love to be right by your side...but by your choice, I view from above...tell my Grandparents I send my love...it's Beautiful here, is all I can say...your life will go on... without me in your way. Love Caylee XOXO......
    NO JUSTICE FOR CAYLEE - copyright that!

  11. #518
    Great Marshal Waldowas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by malq View Post
    Get your Burkas on Bitches, we cant stop sharia law in the United States even if we want to.
    Sometimes I feel there's slight exaggeration in all that burka concern...

    Every hero becomes a bore at last.

    ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

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