The Cordoba House (Mosque)

[TACO]

No disrespect but, Fuck God, and Fuck America, because at this point they are one in the same.

A fallacy.

Question why do you put yourself through the misery of living in a fallacy? By all means go where you can find some peace for yourself.

BTW, Thanks for another well informed response.

[Echo]

Question why do you put yourself through the misery of living in a fallacy? By all means go where you can find some peace for yourself.

BTW, Thanks for another well informed response.

I am free to say what I want about my country and I am personally sick and tired of the majority of "Patriotic" hypocrites that makeup America.

Keep Loving Thy Neighbor. It's good for the soul.

[TACO]

I am free to say what I want about my country and I am personally sick and tired of the majority of "Patriotic" hypocrites that makeup America.

Keep Loving Thy Neighbor. It's good for the soul.

I realize you are free to say what ever you want. It is just the irony is so thick, it amazes me how people who are embarrassed/ashamed/hate the USA want to utilize the protection of our constitution. To me it seems rather lets see...hypocritical, yes thats the word I am looking for. People never cease to amaze me.

Have a good day Echo.

[Echo]

I realize you are free to say what ever you want. It is just the irony is so thick, it amazes me how people who are embarrassed/ashamed/hate the USA want to utilize the protection of our constitution. To me it seems rather lets see...hypocritical, yes thats the word I am looking for. People never cease to amaze me.

Have a good day Echo.

Do you know what amazes me? The very people that BASTARDIZE The Constitution claim to be Patriotic to the core. Every time I turn around lately White Christian People have lost their ever loving fucking minds. Outright racial profiling in Arizona, Burning down Mosques, trying to stop Mosques from being built, Religious Persecution, The Persecutions of Gays. Adults dressing up like Pilgrims to call The President a "Monkey", a "Muslim", all while looking for his "real" birth certificate" Most of it, all in the name of Baby Jesus. Any other constitutional and civil rights we can trample on in the name of God or otherwise?

I'm sure we will think of some.

People keep pissing all over The Constitution in fucking droves and claiming to be Patriotic in the same breath. The minute we start doing that we cease to be America. We become a failed idea, not a reality, we become a fallacy.

Spare me your misbegotten Patriotic lecture. Yes, I utilize the protection of The Constitution. The difference is, I understand that to continue to be "America" The Land of The Free, The constitution applies to ALL and not just "Me" or those that I deem worthy.

What a crock of pure shit Taco.

[biteme]

Do you know what amazes me? The very people that BASTARDIZE The Constitution claim to be Patriotic to the core. Every time I turn around lately White Christian People have lost their ever loving fucking minds. Outright racial profiling in Arizona, Burning down Mosques, trying to stop Mosques from being built, Religious Persecution, The Persecutions of Gays. Adults dressing up like Pilgrims to call The President a "Monkey", a "Muslim", all while looking for his "real" birth certificate" Most of it, all in the name of Baby Jesus. Any other constitutional and civil rights we can trample on in the name of God or otherwise?

I'm sure we will think of some.

People keep pissing all over The Constitution in fucking droves and claiming to be Patriotic in the same breath. The minute we start doing that we cease to be America. We become a failed idea, not a reality, we become a fallacy.

Spare me your misbegotten Patriotic lecture. Yes, I utilize the protection of The Constitution. The difference is, I understand that to continue to be "America" The Land of The Free, The constitution applies to ALL and not just "Me" or those that I deem worthy.

What a crock of pure shit Taco.

You mean, people that twist the constitution to only apply to their way of thinking

http://www.dreamindemon.com/forums/s...t=38201&page=3


Supporting The Mosque means that you support it fully and without limitations. It does not work any other way, which is why we have The Constitution to begin with. Saying that you support their Constitutional Right to build The Mosque yet saying the same breath that they should build "elsewhere" is NOT supporting their Constitutional Rights. You are impeding on their rights and trying to limit them. Period. Get it?

[TACO]

Do you know what amazes me? The very people that BASTARDIZE The Constitution claim to be Patriotic to the core. Every time I turn around lately White Christian People have lost their ever loving fucking minds. Outright racial profiling in Arizona, Burning down Mosques, trying to stop Mosques from being built, Religious Persecution, The Persecutions of Gays. Adults dressing up like Pilgrims to call The President a "Monkey", a "Muslim", all while looking for his "real" birth certificate" Most of it, all in the name of Baby Jesus. Any other constitutional and civil rights we can trample on in the name of God or otherwise?

I'm sure we will think of some.

People keep pissing all over The Constitution in fucking droves and claiming to be Patriotic in the same breath. The minute we start doing that we cease to be America. We become a failed idea, not a reality, we become a fallacy.

Spare me your misbegotten Patriotic lecture. Yes, I utilize the protection of The Constitution. The difference is, I understand that to continue to be "America" The Land of The Free, The constitution applies to ALL and not just "Me" or those that I deem worthy.

What a crock of pure shit Taco.

You know what makes me mad is that everyone wants to be treated equal...fine, lets be equal. Everyone on a level playing field. What I am about to say will probably get a lot of people mad, oh well. Echo you are right it is not a level playing field. When my first child was born, I had lost my insurance when I lost my job. So, I asked for public assistance & I was told NO I could not get it because I made too much money the year before. Looking back on it now I am glad I was turned down! It made me more determine to not to be dependent on anyone. If something breaks in my house there is a good chance I can fix it, thats called be self sufficient, something we Americans use to be.

You labeled White Christian People, do you suffer some guilt or something? I am a White Christian Male, so what? Whats your point?
We have the Latino Congressional Caucus & African-American Caucus, where is the White Congressional Caucus?
We have telemundo & BET, where is the whitey channel?

You see thats the problem with some people around here, you want to play the race card right away. Did you ever look at the birthers argument, I have. They bring up some points, but I don't buy it. Obama is not a stupid man, he is painting these people as loons. He could come out & provide proof but hey why he has got them right where he wants them.

One mosque was burned down okay, what about the 10 christian churches burned in Texas? http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...es-texas_N.htm People burn houses of worship! So whats your point?

Once again I will ask.
1.) Have you ever been to a 3rd world country?
I have

2.) Have you ever been to a predominate Muslim country?
I have

3.) Once again if you view America as a failed country why do you subject yourself to all the shame & contempt you have for America?

4.) I worked in West Africa for 3 years. I seen a lot of stuff in my time. How about you?


As far as the Constitution, to me it is one of the greatest documents in the history of the world. But like I mentioned above both sides have perverted it for gain & that is wrong!

Also, can you hold an intelligent argument without cursing?
Thanks,
TACO

[Echo]

You mean, people that twist the constitution to only apply to their way of thinking

Everytime you do this I am going to do this:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUjIA3Rt7gk"]YouTube - A Flock Of Seagulls - I Ran[/ame]

[Echo]

Y
You labeled White Christian People, do you suffer some guilt or something?

Not quite. I have nothing to feel guilty about? I have no one to answer to but myself and I can be enlightened without using my "god" to judge others. And playing my religion is better than your religion so nah nah nah nah nah!

Once again I will ask.
1.) Have you ever been to a 3rd world country?
I have

Yes.

2.) Have you ever been to a predominate Muslim country?
I have
I live in New York City, some say we are own country, and I live side by side with Muslims EVERY SINGLE FUCKING DAY. I live with more diversity than you would ever see in your lifetime no matter how many times you got on a plane. Have you ever been to New York City Taco? Because guess what...Times Square it is not.

3.) Once again if you view America as a failed country why do you subject yourself to all the shame & contempt you have for America?

If you had any reading comprehension, I was stating that we are becoming a fallacy, everytime we PISS on The Constitution, limit the rights of others and call our selves patriots we become a FAILED COUNTRY. I have contempt for religious extremists in our OWN country and hypocritical "patriots" that shit on the rights of others in the name of their god. You are in power in this country. Try having some responsibility, better yet READ THE CONSTITUTION, understand it, and respect it.

4.) I worked in West Africa for 3 years. I seen a lot of stuff in my time. How about you?

Taco..you know ZERO about me, and for someone as "well traveled" as you claim to be....you certainly have quite the narrow minded world view.. Have you ever been to New York? The Capital Of the World? You don't even need a passport.

As far as the Constitution, to me it is one of the greatest documents in the history of the world. But like I mentioned above both sides have perverted it for gain & that is wrong!

Not so sure that I agree with your "respect" for The Constitution.

Also, can you hold an intelligent argument without cursing?

Fuck yeah!!!! Can you hold an intelligent argument without invoking God?

Peace & Love Thy Neighbor.

[Athena]

I realize you are free to say what ever you want. It is just the irony is so thick, it amazes me how people who are embarrassed/ashamed/hate the USA want to utilize the protection of our constitution. To me it seems rather lets see...hypocritical, yes thats the word I am looking for. People never cease to amaze me.

Have a good day Echo.

I know this was geared toward Echo, but I'll take a shot at it.

I'm an incredibly patriotic person. If America got invaded, I'd give my baby to my parents and tell them to keep her safe, then I'd do whatever it took to defend my country, whether that be joining the military or throwing rocks at tanks rolling down my street, if that's all I could do. I'd fight until they were gone or I'd proudly die trying, because America is absolutely worth fighting for.

In the same breath, though, I'm also incredibly embarrassed. I'm shocked and horrified that we learned nothing from the spirit of the First Amendment (freedom of religion) and spend our days trying to force our religious beliefs on one another a mere 200 years later. I'm terribly embarrassed that we can't understand how our presense on the world stage has made us a target, and that two thirds of Americans can't find Iraq on a map. I'm embarrassed that we're so stupid with guns we're risking our right to own them; that we're so stupid with food that the government feels the need to restrict it for us; that we're so stupid with our finances that we don't even realize OUR abuse of CREDIT was the most direct cause for both the Great Depression AND this most recent recession.

Christ, Taco... I can go on and on and on.

Now, how is that possible? How can I be willing to fight and bleed and die for a country full of some schmucks that make my life more difficult than it needs to be? Well, I suppose it's for the same reason a man sticks with his high school sweetheart wife even after she's gained a little weight and maybe even a drinking problem. Her glory days might be behind her, but at her very core, there are still attractive qualities there. And who knows? It's always possible that she'll sober up and trim down.

Besides, Taco... She's all I've ever known. It's hard to walk away from that, even IF I believed that she's beyond mortal aid (which I don't, for the record).

[TACO]

I know this was geared toward Echo, but I'll take a shot at it.

I'm an incredibly patriotic person. If America got invaded, I'd give my baby to my parents and tell them to keep her safe, then I'd do whatever it took to defend my country, whether that be joining the military or throwing rocks at tanks rolling down my street, if that's all I could do. I'd fight until they were gone or I'd proudly die trying, because America is absolutely worth fighting for.

In the same breath, though, I'm also incredibly embarrassed. I'm shocked and horrified that we learned nothing from the spirit of the First Amendment (freedom of religion) and spend our days trying to force our religious beliefs on one another a mere 200 years later. I'm terribly embarrassed that we can't understand how our presense on the world stage has made us a target, and that two thirds of Americans can't find Iraq on a map. I'm embarrassed that we're so stupid with guns we're risking our right to own them; that we're so stupid with food that the government feels the need to restrict it for us; that we're so stupid with our finances that we don't even realize OUR abuse of CREDIT was the most direct cause for both the Great Depression AND this most recent recession.

Christ, Taco... I can go on and on and on.

Now, how is that possible? How can I be willing to fight and bleed and die for a country full of some schmucks that make my life more difficult than it needs to be? Well, I suppose it's for the same reason a man sticks with his high school sweetheart wife even after she's gained a little weight and maybe even a drinking problem. Her glory days might be behind her, but at her very core, there are still attractive qualities there. And who knows? It's always possible that she'll sober up and trim down.

Besides, Taco... She's all I've ever known. It's hard to walk away from that, even IF I believed that she's beyond mortal aid (which I don't, for the record).

It was geared toward ECHO, but I am glad you commented.

Athena I realize what you are saying. But it seems nowadays that everyone wants to bash this country instead of working to make it a better place. Am I embarrassed that people can not find Iraq, yes I am. What am I doing about it you might ask, well for starters I bought my son a globe years ago. He can name countries & point them out. See, I started with my son. Thats why I support school vouchers, because if public schools are failing...why should it be only the wealthy to send there kids to a better school? Why can't poor kids get a chance? Our education system is flawed, I fight for a better one.

Religious beliefs, I respect each & everyones religion. I might not agree with it but hey thats you. But to give one religion a free pass & demonize another one is wrong. One mosque was burned, there was an up roar...ok what about the 10 Christian churches in Texas?

Credit Issues...how would you like to come home & see that you owe $30,000 in credit card bills? Even though you have worked 280+ days out of 365, with a six figure salary to boot? People like my Ex-Wife irritate me. But thats another thread.

Guns...Athena I can go on & on about this one. I think I will start a new thread about this in the near future. I am VERY PASSIONATE of the 2nd amendment! But once again Education is the key! Thats why I fight for it.

Athena, I think it is safe to say that there are some thing we do not agree on & that is fine. But I will go out on a limb here...from what I am reading your thread here we both agree that it starts with us to educate our children & to strive for a better country. How can we demand change if we are not willing to work for it? Thats why I fight.

Ignorance is not bliss & Ignorance is not strength. I might not be the smartest, but I have seen plenty highs & lows. Some people call me an idealist or an optimist, I just want to be called an American.

[TACO]

Originally Posted by TACO
Y
You labeled White Christian People, do you suffer some guilt or something?

Not quite. I have nothing to feel guilty about? I have no one to answer to but myself and I can be enlightened without using my "god" to judge others. And playing my religion is better than your religion so nah nah nah nah nah!

Once again I will ask.
1.) Have you ever been to a 3rd world country?
I have

Yes.

2.) Have you ever been to a predominate Muslim country?
I have
I live in New York City, some say we are own country, and I live side by side with Muslims EVERY SINGLE FUCKING DAY. I live with more diversity than you would ever see in your lifetime no matter how many times you got on a plane. Have you ever been to New York City Taco? Because guess what...Times Square it is not.

I will take that as a NO, since the last time I checked 2 things, 1.) NYC is not a country. 2.) It is not predominately muslim.

3.) Once again if you view America as a failed country why do you subject yourself to all the shame & contempt you have for America?

If you had any reading comprehension, I was stating that we are becoming a fallacy, everytime we PISS on The Constitution, limit the rights of others and call our selves patriots we become a FAILED COUNTRY. I have contempt for religious extremists in our OWN country and hypocritical "patriots" that shit on the rights of others in the name of their god. You are in power in this country. Try having some responsibility, better yet READ THE CONSTITUTION, understand it, and respect it.

I have a copy on me at all times of the constitution. Thats just how I roll!

4.) I worked in West Africa for 3 years. I seen a lot of stuff in my time. How about you?

Taco..you know ZERO about me, and for someone as "well traveled" as you claim to be....you certainly have quite the narrow minded world view.. Have you ever been to New York? The Capital Of the World? You don't even need a passport.

Echo, you know ZERO about me but yet that doesn't stop you from assuming & bashing me. I don't claim it is a fact that I have traveled overseas, I got the passport to prove it.

As far as the Constitution, to me it is one of the greatest documents in the history of the world. But like I mentioned above both sides have perverted it for gain & that is wrong!

Not so sure that I agree with your "respect" for The Constitution.
Well we can agree to disagree

Also, can you hold an intelligent argument without cursing?

Fuck yeah!!!! Can you hold an intelligent argument without invoking God?
Peace & Love Thy Neighbor.

Echo, I do not invoke God all the time.

[Athena]

It was geared toward ECHO, but I am glad you commented.

Athena I realize what you are saying. But it seems nowadays that everyone wants to bash this country instead of working to make it a better place. Am I embarrassed that people can not find Iraq, yes I am. What am I doing about it you might ask, well for starters I bought my son a globe years ago. He can name countries & point them out. See, I started with my son. Thats why I support school vouchers, because if public schools are failing...why should it be only the wealthy to send there kids to a better school? Why can't poor kids get a chance? Our education system is flawed, I fight for a better one.

See, I don't believe it's public schools that are failing (in whole, anyway)... I believe it is PARENTS who are failing. I hear that you've gone out of your way to instill a knowledge of geography in your son, and I hear about a parent who is not failing, a parent who is taking responsibility for his child's education. I promise you, Taco - no matter what school your child goes to, your child WILL be educated if YOU see to it. Like I've told you before - I was public school educated (pretty recently, I'm only 28), and I'm more educated than most college grads I know, because my father instilled the passion in me. Parents CANNOT rely solely on schools to learn their children. Since when has a person been able to learn all they'll ever need to know in 6 hours a day? No... humans need to learn from the time they open their eyes until the time they close them... and parents occupy more of that time than the schools do.

But I do agree with you about the voucher system. Teachers' unions are an example of a failed American union. They're still paid shit... it just ensures they're impossible to fire. That's not good for teachers, and it's not good for kids. We won't voluntarily de-unionize teachers, so the only viable alternative is introducing some competition some other way. Vouchers, charter schools... they're alright with me.

Religious beliefs, I respect each & everyones religion. I might not agree with it but hey thats you. But to give one religion a free pass & demonize another one is wrong. One mosque was burned, there was an up roar...ok what about the 10 Christian churches in Texas?

See, you and I have delved into this a bit before. You admit to letting your beliefs determine your political preferences, which I understand... BUT, if there was one affliction I could relieve you of, that would be it. It's like a cancer, and it's why things are treated inconsistently. People pick sides. It's not based on logic, but, instead, "feeling" or belief. I condemn the burning of any church, because it's private property. That objective rule guides my opinion. I will feel the same no matter what. Not everyone will.

Credit Issues...how would you like to come home & see that you owe $30,000 in credit card bills? Even though you have worked 280+ days out of 365, with a six figure salary to boot? People like my Ex-Wife irritate me. But thats another thread.

Jesus. My apologies. BUT... let's take a look at what did that to you. Religion did that to you, buddy. "Marriage." In a perfect world, everyone would be responsible for his or her own mess. Marriage introduced the idea that you should be legally responsible for someone other than your child.

Athena, I think it is safe to say that there are some thing we do not agree on & that is fine. But I will go out on a limb here...from what I am reading your thread here we both agree that it starts with us to educate our children & to strive for a better country. How can we demand change if we are not willing to work for it? Thats why I fight.

I agree, buddy, but I also believe the assumption you made about Echo is a fallacy, which is why I posted. One can be critical - insultingly so - AND be fighting. Echo's sharp criticisms and insults do not prove that she is not fighting. In fact, by some measures (including my own), the very fact that she publically shares her criticisms mean she's fighting. She's working just like you and I are, if not in ALL the same ways... We're all upstanding, tax-paying, self-educating human beings with an interest in the future of this country. We might gather very different pictures from our experiences, but common ground is achievable, even when it doesn't appear to be immediately obvious.

Ignorance is not bliss & Ignorance is not strength. I might not be the smartest, but I have seen plenty highs & lows. Some people call me an idealist or an optimist, I just want to be called an American.

Your first statement is what makes your last statement possible. Believe in and fight for an educated populace, and you will always want to be called an American. Neglect the former, and the latter will seem much less attractive.

Just keep an open mind.

[Echo]

[quote=TACO;451496]Originally Posted by TACO

I will take that as a NO, since the last time I checked 2 things, 1.) NYC is not a country. 2.) It is not predominately muslim.

Is this supposed to be some kind of intelligent retort? If so, I am not even going to dignify it with any kind of answer.

[TACO]

Is this supposed to be some kind of intelligent retort? If so, I am not even going to dignify it with any kind of answer.

Why Echo.....what ever do you mean?

[Habeas corpus]

This mosque looks as if it may not be built at the location near ground zero. Money seems to be a problem and the leader some of the media is reporting this man may have been linked to a 9/11 truther. The thing that worries me if the mosque is built near ground zero are the members going to be safe? Sorry but to many loons out there and there could be a person or a group who would want to take revenge.

Those who damm America I have yet to read what other country he or she would choose to live in. Sean Penn loves Cuba, Castro is the man and Sean Penn has disrespected the US countless times but he is still living here in America, along with Jane Fonda. My family has traveled the world and they all come back and say just how lucky we are to live here, Americans are spoiled and we really should be thankful for the freedoms we have that other countries don't.

[Lizard]

This mosque looks as if it may not be built at the location near ground zero. Money seems to be a problem and the leader some of the media is reporting this man may have been linked to a 9/11 truther. The thing that worries me if the mosque is built near ground zero are the members going to be safe? Sorry but to many loons out there and there could be a person or a group who would want to take revenge.

Those who damm America I have yet to read what other country he or she would choose to live in. Sean Penn loves Cuba, Castro is the man and Sean Penn has disrespected the US countless times but he is still living here in America, along with Jane Fonda. My family has traveled the world and they all come back and say just how lucky we are to live here, Americans are spoiled and we really should be thankful for the freedoms we have that other countries don't.

Jesus fucking Christ, WTF? Who cares about a fucking MOSQUE? I want a place where all the little children related to me by blood can visit and buy t-shirts that read "My mommy and daddy visited Ground Zero and all I got was this crummy t-shirt."

As an AMERICAN, is that too much to ask? IS IT?

[Countess Olenska]

Twat?

[Pete Bondurant]

[Rockin Ma]

NEW YORK (AP) -- Some Muslims who were initially indifferent about a proposed Islamic center near the World Trade Center site are now rallying around the plan, partly in response to a sense that their faith is under assault.

A summit of U.S. Muslim organizations is planned for Saturday and Sunday in New York City to address both the project and a rise in anti-Muslim sentiments and rhetoric that has accompanied the debate over the project.

It has yet to be seen whether the group will emerge with a firm stand on the proposed community center, dubbed Park51. The primary purpose of the two-day meeting is to talk about ways to combat religious bigotry.

But Shaik Ubaid of the Islamic Leadership Council of Metropolitan New York, one of the groups organizing the gathering, said he has a growing sense that the project is being embraced by American Muslims and Muslim groups after some initial trepidation.

"Once it became a rallying cry for extremists, we had no choice but to stand with Feisal Rauf," he said, referring to the New York City imam who has been leading the drive for the center.

Groups scheduled to participate in the summit include the Islamic Society of North America, the Islamic Circle of North America, the Muslim Alliance of North America and the Council on American Islamic Relations.

Gauging support for the center among U.S. Muslims is difficult. As a group, they are diverse, ranging from blacks who found the faith during the civil rights movement to recent immigrants hailing from opposite ends of the globe. They rarely speak with one voice.

Yet after a pastor in Florida injected himself into the debate by threatening to burn copies of the Quran, U.S. Muslims stirred.

"I think most Muslims outside New York City are more concerned about the backlash than the actual center, which most of them will never directly benefit from," said Shahed Amanullah, the editor-in-chief of the website altmuslim.com and a group of other Islam-themed sites.

"Grass-roots support is indeed building," he said, "but that is probably more due to the pushback against the general hostile climate."

The center's location two blocks from ground zero has upset some relatives of Sept. 11 victims and stirred nationwide debate and angry demands that it be moved. Critics say the site of mass murder by Islamic extremists is no place for an Islamic institution.

Rauf has called for the 13-story Islamic center to be open to people of all faiths, while his co-leader of the project, Manhattan real estate developer Sharif El-Gamal, has stressed its non-religious aspects, which include a health club and culinary school.

The weekend summit comes as some supporters of the center have encouraged its organizers to include prayer space for Jews, Christians and other religious groups as a way of countering critics who say it will be a monument to Islamic supremacy.

Julie Menin, the chairwoman of the Manhattan community board that endorsed the project months ago, said she is scheduled to meet with Rauf to discuss the interfaith possibility in the coming weeks.

"They had always talked about giving the center an interfaith concept," she said, "like having classes in Buddhism."

"It's one thing to have panel discussions, but if you really want to bring these factions together ... have a nondenominational interfaith space, like the chapel at the Pentagon, where local rabbis and priests could hold services on different days of the week."

There has always been some interfaith support for the center.

Its backers modeled their concept for the center after the city's two popular Jewish community centers and consulted at length with the managers to learn how to make their model work downtown, and reached out to some neighborhood politicians for support.

There was much less outreach to Muslims, Ubaid said.

Rauf, he said, may have been a regular talking head for the national news media on Muslim world affairs, but among New York City imams he was something of an outsider, Ubaid said.

"He was not that involved with the local Muslim community," Ubaid said. He said that included a general failure to round up support for the center before going public with his plans. "Had we consulted us, we probably would have told him, gently, no."

Even after the proposal became public, there was a hesitation by some Muslim groups to quickly endorse the idea, in part because of questions about its feasibility.

Questions about the project's finances have indeed lingered. The investment partnership that owns the property, led by El-Gamal, quickly fell more than $224,000 behind on its property taxes this summer.

The city's finance department confirmed Friday that El-Gamal had begun resolving that debt Wednesday, turning over a check for a little more than $35,000 and signing on to an eight-installment payment plan to pay the rest.

El-Gamal said in a statement that the failure to pay was due to a dispute with the city over the assessed value of the property - an appeal that is still pending.

Rauf and his wife, Daisy Khan, have also been sued by a small city in New Jersey over the conditions in two apartment buildings they own there. Khan said in court papers filed Thursday that repairs are under way.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...MPLATE=DEFAULT

[brokenandtwisted]

This mosque looks as if it may not be built at the location near ground zero. Money seems to be a problem and the leader some of the media is reporting this man may have been linked to a 9/11 truther. The thing that worries me if the mosque is built near ground zero are the members going to be safe? Sorry but to many loons out there and there could be a person or a group who would want to take revenge.

Those who damm America I have yet to read what other country he or she would choose to live in. Sean Penn loves Cuba, Castro is the man and Sean Penn has disrespected the US countless times but he is still living here in America, along with Jane Fonda. My family has traveled the world and they all come back and say just how lucky we are to live here, Americans are spoiled and we really should be thankful for the freedoms we have that other countries don't.

I question where your relatives have traveled to. Malawi, perhaps? Fiji? Nepal? Surely they're not speaking of industrialized nations. I've been to dozens of countries that have fantastic social systems in place. Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, Canada, Germany, Denmark, Iceland, Australia, New Zealand are all wicked countries to live in. Hell, St. Petersburg, Russia, is a brilliant city and I wouldn't think twice to live in it. And it's in Russia.

If you honestly believe in the grand scheme of international relations that Americans have it made, you're fooling yourself. America has been falling down the charts in public education, health care, medicine (did you know that England, Canada are building eyes and bones in test tubes and America isn't because your last fucking idiot of a president put a ban on stem cell research, effectively putting America behind six years in medical research?), freedom of press, political corruption and economic disparity for over a decade. The same country you love has been playing World Police for decades to the point your infrastructure and social institutions are crumbling, yet you blindly cling to the notion of your country as the 'best'. Your political environment is so hostile issues are not being properly addressed - the two dominate parties hate on one another to the point their respective members (at least a majority) no longer know what they're even arguing about. Adding to such, the aggressiveness in your political environment is palpable - the politicians toy with what you want for their own selfish ambition (ex. health care, education, all of the aforementioned above) without exacting anything at all. Your middle class is shrinking.

America is not as 'great' as you think it is. We no longer live in the 1900s, babe. Other countries simply do other things better. Sadly, most Americans will have to be eating out of garbage cans to ever accept such a reality. To that end, America has become a country of utmost ignorance revering itself in a culture of fear. You pride yourself in multiculturalism, yet defile the individuals that support the very foundations of your country. You vomit on about your 'freedoms' then spit in the face of the immigrants and Muslims that your Constitution supports through freedom of religion. You believe your country is filthy rich, but who has that money? Do you have that money? Are you, the average American, extraordinarily wealthy? Ha! No. Foreign countries and American corporations have your money.

Americans are like Parisians. They think their shit doesn't stink - they stick to their postcards like tools, but if you turn your camera 180 degrees from the Louvre, it's a fucking shithole. You may believe I have some sort of seething anti-Americanism going on, however that isn't true...it just boggles me how Americans can sit there and think their country is the shit when everything says otherwise.

[Pete Bondurant]

I've been to dozens of countries that have fantastic social systems in place. Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, Canada, Germany, Denmark, Iceland, Australia, New Zealand are all wicked countries to live in. Hell, St. Petersburg, Russia, is a brilliant city and I wouldn't think twice to live in it. And it's in Russia.

Odd....none of those nations you mention have forty million negroes or twelve million illegal aliens from a variety of Third World nations residing therein. Sankt Peterburg is a beautiful city (mostly designed by foreigners), but outside of SP and Moscow, Russia looks like Newark, New Jersey without coloured people. I think that it would be more appropriate to compare the United States with Brazil, India or South Africa in regards to certain quality of life issues.

[brokenandtwisted]

America has accepted such immigration due to its own policies, Pete.

America's issues are no one's fault but its' own.

[Pete Bondurant]

America has accepted such immigration due to its own policies, Pete.

America's issues are no one's fault but its' own.

I think we all know the identity of the true culprits behind the decline of Western Civilisation.

[brokenandtwisted]

Scientologists.

[runecire]

The yellow-bellied SapSucker

[Echo]

Odd....none of those nations you mention have forty million negroes or twelve million illegal aliens from a variety of Third World nations residing therein. Sankt Peterburg is a beautiful city (mostly designed by foreigners), but outside of SP and Moscow, Russia looks like Newark, New Jersey without coloured people. I think that it would be more appropriate to compare the United States with Brazil, India or South Africa in regards to certain quality of life issues.

Negroes? Really?

What a pathetic, little, racist, twit you are. Is your dick the same size as your teeny tiny brain? That would explain a whole lot. You seriously make me sick.

[Echo]

America has accepted such immigration due to its own policies, Pete.

America's issues are no one's fault but its' own.

Yup. America accepted Pete. I'd take an "illegal" across our borders any day of the week in lieu of an ignorant racist like him.

As if we really need anymore of that bullshit in this country, we are bursting at the seems with it as it is.

[brokenandtwisted]

Negroes? Really?

What a pathetic, little, racist, twit you are. Is your dick the same size as your teeny tiny brain? That would explain a whole lot. You seriously make me sick.

Pete is from Africa, dear. White-Africans naturally hate on blacks. He is also in investing/banking etc...automatic shoe-in to America.

I too am from Africa...but I hate the Portuguese. Go figure, eh? Guess that's what I get for being born on an island and not the mainland.

[Saffron]

I see nothing natural about hate no matter how or where it came about.

[brokenandtwisted]

You should. Hate is very natural, very easy. It's a very sound social condition.

Just look at the contents of this thread.