SPICE- The New LEGAL High??

**Dneilz** · June 19th, 2010, 11:19 AM

TRAVERSE CITY -- A Northern Michigan mother has a warning for other parents. There is a new way to get high growing in popularity among teens and young adults.

15-year old John Bosch found his friend unconscious, on the ground at Hannah Park in Traverse City.

Bosch says, "I was pretty freaked out. It's not everyday you see your friend passed out in the woods."

Bosch called 911, and when his friend woke up several hours later at Munson Medical Center he told doctors he had smoked a substance called Spice.

Spice or K2 looks like cooking herbs or potpourri. It’s supposed to be used as incense but when smoked gives off similar effects that marijuana does. Since Spice doesn’t show up on drug tests and is legal to buy, authorities say young people are eager to try it......

MORE AT LINK:

http://www.upnorthlive.com/news/story.aspx?id=472478

I've never heard of Spice until now. I am just wondering what all of you here at DD know about it? Have you ever heard of it? Tried it? Have you seen your teens with it, or hear them talk about it? Just curious

**62julietandvoid** · June 19th, 2010, 11:27 AM

Don't recall hearing about this.

**Dneilz** · June 19th, 2010, 11:28 AM

Weird. It is the first I have heard about it too. And I guess it does get you high... for 5 hours or something. And it is legal.

**Aena** · June 19th, 2010, 11:29 AM

I read something about this spice a few years ago but I will be damned if I can remember what it was called.

**Dneilz** · June 19th, 2010, 11:40 AM

I just read that it is available in other names. Spice Silver, Spice Gold, and Spice Diamond

**Aena** · June 19th, 2010, 11:45 AM

I was thinking of Salvia, here is the wiki for Spice.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spice_%28drug%29

**Alf** · June 19th, 2010, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by Dneilz

I've never heard of Spice until now. I am just wondering what all of you here at DD know about it? Have you ever heard of it? Tried it? Have you seen your teens with it, or hear them talk about it? Just curious

Erowid is your friend.

Read what they have to say about research chemicals before getting into this stuff.

--Al

**AmyB80** · June 19th, 2010, 12:30 PM

http://www.wishtv.com/dpps/health/he...e-rise_3287298

http://www.wishtv.com/dpp/health/new...ves-in-indiana

The first link is a story from March and the second link is a story from May about a boy who went into seizure from smoking k2 which I cannot know if that is a common side effect to this stuff or what. It is marketed as an incense? (not sure how as I have not seen it or its packaging) but yeah, in March I asked my teens what they knew (and they did know of it) and I told them its not worth the risks just to not show thc in a piss test, which is why many, not just teens, are trying it out. Gas stations in Crawfordsville and Veedersburg sell it but I can promise as soon as I hear of my local gas station carrying it, I will go in there and have words and actions for them which will likely involve them calling police. Seriously, this is made in Asia and I am of the thinking they do not care about our health (hell they do not care about their own peoples... melamine tainted milk product for babies), think about the anti-freeze toothpaste, tainted dry ingredient that went into the dog food and many other tainted products that do make it through. When the tainted products were at a high not long ago I was considering it a silent war and felt it was no accident it was happening. I'm honestly surprised they are not purposefully tainting rice shipped here. I warned my kids if I ever found out they did something as stupid as this stuff that I would beat them into the seizure they must be begging for to happen.

**akika666** · June 19th, 2010, 12:33 PM

looks like it's not long before this one will be prohibited. so funny, my nephew is obv a pothead, (not the good kind). i keep finding stuff lying around, but when i tattle to my brother, he's all, "oh that >insert paraphernalia/residue here<? he loves to cook, you know that... it's (for) his SPICES."

**ImmortalOne** · June 19th, 2010, 12:47 PM

Talked to my 17 yr old about this. She has no knowledge of it but is now aware because of this article. Thank you D!

**Dakota Valkyrie** · June 19th, 2010, 02:16 PM

This has been in the news for a while. One of our D'D members was talking about it in Chit Chat social group. She uses it.

Personally, if I was going to smoke something to get high, it would be a natural substance... not something with chemical shit sprayed on it. At least with legal chemicals I know what I'm getting and am well aware of any dangers.

Spice is a brand name of, and generic slang, for an herbal mixture laced with synthetic cannabinoids such as JWH-018.[1] The various Spice products are produced by several manufacturers and marketed under various names[1] Spice products are sold online and in smoke shops as an incense or "herbal smoking blend", but the products are usually smoked for their cannabis-like effects.
[...]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spice_%28drug%29

Like akika666, I think it's only a matter of time until it's banned everywhere. LSD was legal when I was a young teen. In college, Ecstasy was legal. Laws caught up with them, they will this time too... whether they deserve or not is another question.

**Dneilz** · June 19th, 2010, 02:17 PM

You are welcome. I was curious how many people knew about it and if their teens were possibly using it. I don't do drugs...at all... but I do try to keep up with all the shit out there that might fall into our children's hands. Especially shit like this!

**Dneilz** · June 19th, 2010, 02:49 PM

It is referred to as K2 as well as a few other things.... weird shit from what I have read so far.

**Dakota Valkyrie** · June 19th, 2010, 02:53 PM

There are a ton of names. I doubt they can keep up with it. Kids invent their own slang in areas, too.

From that wiki link:

Reported Brands

* Black Magic
* Black Mamba
* Fake Weed
* Dream Incense
* Genie[
* Gonjah
* K2
* K3
* King Krypto
* Mr. Smiley
* P.E.P Pouri
* Proze Smoke
* Sativah
* Sence
* Skunk
* Smoke
* Spice (Silver, Gold and Diamond)
* Spice Yucatan Fire
* Spirit
* Supernova
* Warlock
* Zohai

**Aena** · June 19th, 2010, 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by Dakota Valkyrie

This has been in the news for a while. One of our D'D members was talking about it in Chit Chat social group. She uses it.

Personally, if I was going to smoke something to get high, it would be a natural substance... not something with chemical shit sprayed on it. At least with legal chemicals I know what I'm getting and am well aware of any dangers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spice_%28drug%29

Like akika666, I think it's only a matter of time until it's banned everywhere. LSD was legal when I was a young teen. In college, Ecstasy was legal. Laws caught up with them, they will this time too... whether they deserve or not is another question.

Everything is banned because the powers that be cannot seem to think that some American's actually have a brain and can decide what they want to put in their bodies and what they don't. Now I do believe most things should have a warning label, like crack cocaine: The surgeon general says using this substance can cause death, total idiotness, can cause you to not take care of your children etc.

But if I am doing something in my own home, not out driving, not out where I could possible harm someone, my children are asleep and being well taken care of in my opinion the government has no business telling me what I can and can't put into my body.

**Dakota Valkyrie** · June 19th, 2010, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by Aena

Everything is banned because the powers that be cannot seem to think that some American's actually have a brain and can decide what they want to put in their bodies and what they don't. Now I do believe most things should have a warning label, like crack cocaine: The surgeon general says using this substance can cause death, total idiotness, can cause you to not take care of your children etc.

But if I am doing something in my own home, not out driving, not out where I could possible harm someone, my children are asleep and being well taken care of in my opinion the government has no business telling me what I can and can't put into my body.

Exactly why I said "whether they deserve or not is another question".

Too bad some people can't responsibly use drugs and those that do do not speak louder.

**akika666** · June 19th, 2010, 03:43 PM

too bad "the War on Drugs" has become an industry we can't just shut down.

**Dneilz** · June 19th, 2010, 10:41 PM

If I had to prefer my teen boys smoke something... I prefer it to be the good ole' marijuana cigarette and not this synthetic shit. I prefer they smoke nothing at all of course, but teen boys get curious and I rather it be something safe (I believe marijhuana is the safest recreational drug) rather than this shit, shrooms, coke, whip its, butane or alcohol.

Sure, I have tried marijuana, but it isn't for me. Too anxious of a person I guess. However, most people I know who smoke it don't get out of control, still know what they are doing and function in society. Michigan just passed the med card for medical marijuana... but I think they might as well make it legal. This "spice" shit is one of the major reasons why. Fuck. Just tax the shit, make the state some money and let people make their own choice. What's the big deal? Tobacco is some nasty shit. Alcohol is some nasty shit. Hell, even caffeine isn't good for you.

I am just rambling now, so I will shut up.

**akika666** · June 20th, 2010, 07:48 AM

caffeine is better for you than the others. it has antioxidant properties. then it gives you a myocardial infarction.

the big deal is that there is an established industry worth billions of dollars and thousands of jobs invested in the war on drugs. the laws aren't just to save us from ourselves, they support a segment of the economy.

**MC30** · June 20th, 2010, 12:17 PM

they have banned the sell of it in about 4 surrounding counties . they sell it here in the tabacco store i go to. i have not bought any. if someone wants to send me $30 to buy it and try it, i will. but thats the only way im gonna buy any of that shit.

**Dneilz** · June 20th, 2010, 12:28 PM

lol, great point. But jobs could also be replaced with the growing and harvesting process, specialty stores that sell it. Businesses that make and sell "marijuana desserts" and also hemp jewlery, bags and I think the list could go on. Where there is a will, there is a way. Maybe more people also would smoke it if it were legal. Some weirdos like me freak out if their breaking the law.

Besides, a lot of money would be saved through not prosecuting and then imprisoning people for selling it, growing it or having it on their person.

Just a thought... I could be wrong. It wouldn't be the first time.....

**Dakota Valkyrie** · June 20th, 2010, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by Dneilz

lol, great point. But jobs could also be replaced with the growing and harvesting process, specialty stores that sell it. Businesses that make and sell "marijuana desserts" and also hemp jewlery, bags and I think the list could go on. Where there is a will, there is a way.

Just to play devil's advocate....

Most of the growing and processing would not require that much manpower... especially to replace professions like lawyers, guards, cops. Stores and "bakeries" could not possibly employ enough people as those with jobs due to the drug wars or at wages they currently get. Hemp jewelry, bags, and other products are already widely sold as specialty items - legal pot would probably not expand that market more than a small bit.

I may not see pot legalized in my lifetime but I'm willing to bet it will happen in the lifetime of my kids. Stuff like that is a slow process but it is coming. Once people realize that places where it is legal have not gone to pot, they will mellow out about it.

**Dakota Valkyrie** · June 20th, 2010, 03:54 PM

Oh damn.

An Indianola teenager who smoked a potent, yet legal, drug reportedly suffered a severe panic attack, told friends he was "going to hell," then went home, and shot and killed himself.

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/art...med-on-incense

Tidbits sprinkled tough that sad story:

K2 is banned in some countries, including Sweden, Switzerland, South Korea, Chile, Germany and France, according to the U.S. Naval Criminal Investigative Service.

In the United States, the governors of Alabama, Georgia, Kansas, Kentucky and Tennessee have signed bills outlawing K2, although not all the laws have gone into effect yet. The Missouri legislature also passed a ban that will take effect unless the governor vetoes it before July 14.

Illinois, Louisiana, Michigan, New Jersey and New York are considering bills outlawing K2, according to USA Today.
[...]

The result for some is a mellow, marijuana-like high when smoked. But for others, the effects include anxiety, panic attacks, agitation, hallucinations and seizures, according to the Iowa Statewide Poison Control Center.
[...]

Research on how K2 and similar products affect the human body is still incomplete. While K2 has been available in Europe for a couple years, it wasn't until recently that it started showing up on U.S. officials' radars.

Linda Kalin, director of the Iowa Statewide Poison Control Center, first heard about K2 through the poison control's information exchange site in February. The warning came from Missouri, where multiple doctors were reporting patients sick from it.

"At that point, we learned as much as we could," Kalin said.

In March, the Iowa center received its own call from a hospital where a teenager was complaining of agitation, twitching and an increased heart rate.
[...]

I like how they say "Research on how K2 and similar products affect the human body is still incomplete." and don't mention what any of it's pointing to. If they used research on effects on the body for the basis of legalization, booze would be SO out the door.

**Alf** · June 20th, 2010, 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by Dakota Valkyrie

Oh damn.

The result for some is a mellow, marijuana-like high when smoked. But for others, the effects include anxiety, panic attacks, agitation, hallucinations and seizures, according to the Iowa Statewide Poison Control Center.
[...]

Research on how K2 and similar products affect the human body is still incomplete. While K2 has been available in Europe for a couple years, it wasn't until recently that it started showing up on U.S. officials' radars.

I like how they say "Research on how K2 and similar products affect the human body is still incomplete." and don't mention what any of it's pointing to. If they used research on effects on the body for the basis of legalization, booze would be SO out the door.

The cannabinoids they use to punch up the K2 are still regarded as research chemicals. It's like Erowid says; if you're ingesting research chemicals then you are a guinea pig.

--Al

**Southern Sin** · June 22nd, 2010, 07:17 AM

A new, deadly and highly addictive drug called whoonga is taking hold of Durban's townships, with authorities warning that its users have increased by thousands in the past year.

The drug is a concoction of the antiretroviral stocrin, dagga and several other substances, including chemicals found in rat poison.

Children as young as 14 are smoking it in drug dens.

Walter Peterson, the Durban manager of Sanca, which treats alcoholics and drug addicts, said addicts used dagga as a base, which was mixed with whoonga into a cigarette and smoked.

Peterson said the drug became popular about a year ago. He said the drug's origins were unknown, but it was probably discovered by experimentation.

Police in Kwadabeka township, near Pinetown, are concerned about the rise in housebreaking cases related to the drug.

"The addicts steal to get money to buy the drug. We have seen a rise in housebreaking cases and theft. The drug has spread all over the township," said Captain Bongani Khomo.

Kwadabeka ward councillor Sifiso Zungu said he was working with the police, parents and schools to deal with the problem.

"We have realised that it is not enough to send the kids to prison. We are trying other ways to rehabilitate them."

A 15-year-old addict said most of the crimes they committed were motivated by the need to get a fix.

"We break into houses and cars, and we steal clothes from washing lines. When we don't smoke we get sick with severe stomach pains. We know that the drug is dangerous, but once you start it's hard to stop."

Side-effects of the drug include loss of appetite, excessive sweating and bleeding when urinating.

Hows this for homemade synthetic shit! And who the fuck thinks up this shit?? Anyone for a hit??

**LissaLou** · July 3rd, 2010, 03:29 AM

My friend's husband sells Spice all over the western US. By itself, it won't do anything and it is sold in smokeshops as aromatherapy. It has to have alcohol sprayed and dried onto it for it to make you high. They use everclear. Anyway, her husband had started smoking it instead of weed and he was having bad side effects from it. They still sell it but he won't smoke it anymore.

**NaTaS** · August 18th, 2010, 09:28 AM

It's been around for a few years. they're going to make it illegal because people are enjoying it to much.. can't have that.

And it's not taxed enough I am sure.

**carolinablue** · August 18th, 2010, 10:26 AM

This past Sunday our "no herbal incense" law went into effect. I am pretty dismayed; those who used the stuff may (I'm not saying they will) have to resort to buying pot. And down here I swear they toss child molesters out of jail to make room for pot growers, sellers and possessors. Plus I am now shit outta luck and gobbling Advil. Crap.

**galadrial** · August 22nd, 2010, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by Dneilz

If I had to prefer my teen boys smoke something... I prefer it to be the good ole' marijuana cigarette and not this synthetic shit. I prefer they smoke nothing at all of course, but teen boys get curious and I rather it be something safe (I believe marijhuana is the safest recreational drug) rather than this shit, shrooms, coke, whip its, butane or alcohol.

Sure, I have tried marijuana, but it isn't for me. Too anxious of a person I guess. However, most people I know who smoke it don't get out of control, still know what they are doing and function in society. Michigan just passed the med card for medical marijuana... but I think they might as well make it legal. This "spice" shit is one of the major reasons why. Fuck. Just tax the shit, make the state some money and let people make their own choice. What's the big deal? Tobacco is some nasty shit. Alcohol is some nasty shit. Hell, even caffeine isn't good for you.

I am just rambling now, so I will shut up.

I agree with you on this 100% - my kids - 13,12, and 9 - are just as curious as anyone else's and I sure as HELL dont want my kids to try this stuff. Chemicals are dangerous, and marijuana is not. It will not kill you, will not make you kill people, and in my opinion, is the "safest" drug there is. (If any drug can be deemed "safe"). I would much rather know my kid is smoking weed than ingesting unknown man made chemicals - at least maryjane is all natural and sent from the Man Above. He is infallible - man kind and all of their machinery is not.

**62julietandvoid** · August 31st, 2010, 03:40 PM

I wonder how close K2 is to SPICE? A buddy and I stopped at the state store after work for some beer and rolling papers a lil bit ago. The owner whipped out a bag of K2, 20 bucks. I asked him if it was the same as SPICE and he said no(hmm). Having the real deal we discuses the price between real and synthetic weed. VERY cautious, BUT we said we MIGHT try it sometime. Looked up the difference between K2 & SPICE but really didnt find much.