5-Year-Old Handcuffed As Mom Watches

**Whisper** · May 19th, 2010, 10:04 PM

Woman Says She Wanted To Scare Child Straight
LEHIGH ACRES, Fla. -- A startling scene outside a party store brought a Florida woman to tears.
The woman said she saw a sheriff's deputy arresting a 5-year-old boy as she was pumping gas at a nearby 7-Eleven. She snapped a photo and described it as an "out of control situation."
"That's not a way to treat a child, that's not a way to teach a lesson to a little boy," said the woman, who asked to remain anonymous.

The little boy's mother said she asked the deputy, a friend and 15-year veteran of the Lee County Sheriff's Office, to "arrest" her son as a way to scare him straight.

"I hope it scared him to figure out that he's not going to play with matches or lighters again," she said. "That was the whole point of it -- to make him afraid that he was going to go to jail."

Child psychiatrist Omar Rieche said the discipline was too much.

"No matter what the details are, when you see that picture, it says so much," he said. "The age in which this is being done is inappropriate, so it's misguided."

But the boy's mother said she'd do it again if she had to.
[...]
The Lee County Sheriff's Office said the deputy's actions were not protocol and will not happen again.

http://www.news4jax.com/news/23614132/detail.html#

NOT SURE WHERE THIS BELONGS HERE OR 3 THINGS?

**cubby** · May 19th, 2010, 10:11 PM

I appreciate that this mother is at least trying in her own way to keep her son on the straight and narrow but I do think he is a little young to be scared this bad, if he had been 10 I'd say go for it.

I don't necessarily think he's gonna be damaged by this, especially if Mom follows up by talking to him about why she felt it was needed, like not hurting himself or burining the house down. I think even the most hard headed learn from experience. Tho the age still bothers me some. Maybe it should have been done in private at home and not at a gas station in front of God and everybody.

**Valasca** · May 19th, 2010, 10:28 PM

Nah. I'd have my son "arrested". It gives him a taste of what it would be like. I may get groans for that, but... that's just my opinion.

**AngelFire** · May 19th, 2010, 10:31 PM

I can understand why mom did this, but I agree that the age is just a bit too young. My 5 year old used to have this bad habit of going to my friend's house and taking her son's toy cars. Although I would check him, and all, I'd still find one hidden once I got home. So I started talking to him about stealing. He was about 3 1/2 and I'd explain why it's wrong. But it never worked, he would do it over and over. So one day I grabbed an old cell phone, by now he is about 4 1/2, and pretend I am speaking to police. Well, I live in Los Angeles and police sirens is the Ghetto Lullaby , you hear them every second of the day. So when he heard the sirens he became unhinged and started crying and telling me he was sorry and wouldn't do it again. Scared shitless I tell ya'. No more random cars, and he is just fine.

Mission accomplished

Edit: I want to say that I found a bit out of sorts was actually having the police handcuff him at that age. But after giving more though I changed my mind. He is better off being scared now, then to have some real tragedy happen because he was plaing with matches. So no, the age, and the handcuffs is not over the top. Back to my chicken

**cubby** · May 19th, 2010, 10:37 PM

No groans from me, I think you are right. I figured I would get some groans myself.

**Pene784** · May 19th, 2010, 10:39 PM

They didn't actually take the kid to jail. It looks like some nosy person just took the what was happening out of context. If putting the child in handcuffs and explaining why he could get into trouble for playing with fire could help him, keep him and his family safe, I say go for it. If he is indeed playing with fire then "traumatizing" him might have been in order.

I told my daughter she would be arrested if she kept taking her seat belt off in the car and I had an actual police officer tell her it was true, seat belt off = jail. She never takes the thing off now while we are in motion. If she had done it again I might have considered letting our friend "cuff" her.

**62julietandvoid** · May 19th, 2010, 11:17 PM

I dunno what to make of this. Dicipline can be difficult, esp if your child dosent listen and you wont beat it in/out of them. One time my youngest(5) got into something he shouldnt and would not listen to me when I told him to get out. There was a cop nearby and I asked if she could assist me(as she was an "authoritive fuggure"), boy was she ever offended when I told him she was a police officer. She IMEADEATLY "corrected" me thet she was the good guy(no fuckin shit lady). He eventually listened(to me). I wasnt trying to have my cub arressted, just some assistance. The usual idle threat of calling their father wasnt working so I thought I'd try something new. I think this would be rather upsetting for a kid so young, depending on his experience.

I am so on the fence here. And I aint gonna lie when I say I laughed out loud at the kids picture. He looks so gangsta...and defeated.

**AngelFire** · May 19th, 2010, 11:20 PM

And I aint gonna lie when I say I laughed out loud at the kids picture. He looks so gangsta...and defeated.

Yeah, me too. I could almost see my 5 year old with buggers running down his face as he is being "arrested". Sorry guys, if you would meet my 5 year old, you'd know why.

Edit: Yeah my kid is a sweetheart but he can be a stubborn lil mule

**62julietandvoid** · May 19th, 2010, 11:35 PM

Originally Posted by Mybabiesmomma

Yeah, me too. I could almost see my 5 year old with buggers running down his face as he is being "arrested". Sorry guys, if you would met my 5 year old, you'd know why.

Haha! Mine too. Don't get me wrong, he is as sweet as can be, so precious(just like his older brother), but ooooooohhhh boy ohhh my has he got a "I'll do it myself" attitude and a temper(not all that bad, but damn).

Gotta love em :)

**littlemoonseductress** · May 20th, 2010, 10:47 AM

I can see I am surrounded by a bunch of extremely intelligent mothers! It sure is nice to see. I consider this type of parenting, "thinking outside the box parenting" and I think it is very effective. Not only did mom teach her child that what he was doing was wrong but she also taught him respect for law enforcement. If he is old enough to figure out how to start a fire he is old enough to know the consequences of his actions.

**Ravyn1965** · May 20th, 2010, 11:09 AM

I want to know if the woman that reported this has any children. I want to know if she knew all the facts of the situation, how she would have handled this differently.

It wasn't like she saw a parent handcuff their child and drag him by the hair around the parking lot. The child was in the hands of a trained law enforcement officer. Some kids his age are visual learners. They don't understand consequences unless they are illustrated in some fashion.

While I do agree that this perhaps should have been done in a more private setting, its purpose was not malicious in the least.

**CplPunishment** · May 20th, 2010, 11:26 AM

I couldn't just stand idly by and let my kid get handcuffs put on weather they deserved it or not. It is way to excessive just cause the kid likes fire. I bet I started 10k fires before I was 13. Never had a problem

**Mystica43229** · May 20th, 2010, 11:37 AM

I don't think it's too young. I wish my little brother got that treatment before he caught the house on fire. If the fire dept didn't get there in time, the house would've burned down. My little brother was around 4 at the time.

**littlemoonseductress** · May 20th, 2010, 11:45 AM

I would have let my sons father handle the situation. But, my husband died when my son was 3. I have had to be a creative mother. And being an only child I had no idea how to handle boy stuff. So far I think I have done a wonderful job, he is respectful and makes good grades. I just have to be a little more crafty when it comes to discipline. Especially now! He is 6 ft. and 207 lbs. at 14 and I am 5' 2" and 114 lbs. !!!

**Athena** · May 20th, 2010, 11:51 AM

Parents who feel the need to involve police in routine discipline have failed, period. At 5 years old, this child's mother has already illustrated that she is incapable of handing discipline herself.

I don't think the exercise was inherently harmful, but the likelihood is, with mom already relying on the police, this won't be the last time that little boy is in cuffs. Next time, though, it'll be for assault or burglary or something.

While children are born with behavioral tendencies, the majority of chronic misbehavior can be traced directly back to a parent's mishandling of discipline. Generally, if you feel the need to lie to your child to straighten them out or scare them into straightening out, you've done something wrong that has led to that situation. Doesn't make you a bad parent, necessarily, but it should cause you to reevaluate your discipline strategy before shit gets any farther out of hand.

**WhatThe** · May 20th, 2010, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by Athena

I don't think the exercise was inherently harmful, but the likelihood is, with mom already relying on the police, this won't be the last time that little boy is in cuffs. Next time, though, it'll be for assault or burglary or something.

I tend to think this incident might also somehow desensitize the child. He might think, "I've already been arrested once and it wasn't that bad." Even though it wasn't for "real", his first run-in with LE might not have been so bad to deter him from thinking twice next time...

**Pene784** · May 20th, 2010, 01:00 PM

I don't think the exercise was inherently harmful, but the likelihood is, with mom already relying on the police, this won't be the last time that little boy is in cuffs. Next time, though, it'll be for assault or burglary or something.

While children are born with behavioral tendencies, the majority of chronic misbehavior can be traced directly back to a parent's mishandling of discipline. Generally, if you feel the need to lie to your child to straighten them out or scare them into straightening out, you've done something wrong that has led to that situation. Doesn't make you a bad parent, necessarily, but it should cause you to reevaluate your discipline strategy before shit gets any farther out of hand.

This was a family friend that was demonstrating what would happen to the kid if he continued with his dangerous behavior. I don't think this mother did anything wrong at all. She helped her child understand the consequences for his behavior. It is not like the woman called the police and had her son arrested. And I think a good deal of discipline and life lessons is fear and/or consequence based. For instance you teach a child if they run into the road they can be hit and killed by a car. This is a consequence of their behavior and a scary one at that. And for me, when I told my daughter she could go to jail for not wearing her seat belt I needed a quick fix. I did not want to go through the whole "if you don't wear your seat belt you will lose a privilege or go to time out, or get a spanking" I needed an immediate solution to a dangerous situation. And it worked. Not bad parenting. Fast effective on the fly parenting. Careful to judge others before you have gone through it yourself.

**Athena** · May 20th, 2010, 01:40 PM

Originally Posted by Pene784

This was a family friend that was demonstrating what would happen to the kid if he continued with his dangerous behavior. I don't think this mother did anything wrong at all. She helped her child understand the consequences for his behavior. It is not like the woman called the police and had her son arrested. And I think a good deal of discipline and life lessons is fear and/or consequence based. For instance you teach a child if they run into the road they can be hit and killed by a car. This is a consequence of their behavior and a scary one at that. And for me, when I told my daughter she could go to jail for not wearing her seat belt I needed a quick fix. I did not want to go through the whole "if you don't wear your seat belt you will lose a privilege or go to time out, or get a spanking" I needed an immediate solution to a dangerous situation. And it worked. Not bad parenting. Fast effective on the fly parenting. Careful to judge others before you have gone through it yourself.

The fact that it was a family friend does make a difference. I'm glad to know she wasn't wasting city/county resources. But this is not a responsible, sustainable or even honest method of discipline. No 5 year old who starts a fire is going to be arrested for it. Of course, in 9 out of 10 cases, if she doles out reasonable and consistent discipline, this wouldn't have been necessary to begin with.

And, with all due respect, Pene - I'm pretty damn tired of mothers around here suggesting I should be discredited simply because I don't yet have first-hand experience (with small children - I've got experience with a teenager). It's pretty amazingly hypocritical coming from this particular bunch, who spend their hours in this very forum judging people who are in situations they've never experienced. I don't need to smoke crack to know it's retarded. I don't need to fly a plane to know that it's not something you should do when you're sleepy. And I certainly don't need to parent a 5 year old to know that lying and scare tactics are generally bad policy.

Again, these things don't make a parent a bad one, necessarily... But it should cause someone to consider how their current tactics led to the need to lie to or scare their children.

**Tundratot** · May 20th, 2010, 02:29 PM

It's not something I would have thought up as a punishment, but what I'm seeing in the picture does not immediately make alarm bells go off in my head. That boy is standing quietly, not being held in place. He's not in the car. He's not mussed up. He's not face down on the pavement with his arm twisted and a knee in his back.

The officer, a woman, is down at his level talking to him earnestly. Looks like Dad is standing near the officer. I'm not clear on why the "arrest" is taking place in a gas station or parking lot, but my overall impression is that the situation is being handled pretty carefully. I'm also guessing here that he wasn't taken to jail to experience booking, questioning, and lock up.

I'd like to hear more about this incident, but I'm not in a judging frame of mind on it yet.

**Pene784** · May 20th, 2010, 05:21 PM

And, with all due respect, Pene - I'm pretty damn tired of mothers around here suggesting I should be discredited simply because I don't yet have first-hand experience (with small children - I've got experience with a teenager). It's pretty amazingly hypocritical coming from this particular bunch, who spend their hours in this very forum judging people who are in situations they've never experienced. I don't need to smoke crack to know it's retarded. I don't need to fly a plane to know that it's not something you should do when you're sleepy. And I certainly don't need to parent a 5 year old to know that lying and scare tactics are generally bad policy.

And with all due respect to you Athena, Yes you most certainly need to experience parenting before you can determine what does and does not work, and how you would or would not handle situations. I stand by that statement.Though you are free to form judgments about anyone and everyone you like. Seriously hop down off your high horse every once in awhile. When you are dealing with children, everything is not cut and dry. Sometimes you need to take drastic measures or simply try something you never tried before, something that gets their attention NOW. Can you imagine how scary it is to have a child that is doing something that could potentially kill them? Can you imagine how scary it is when all your normal discipline techniques do not work? Can you imagine what you would do to help your child before the situation escalates? Each and every child is different. My daughter is very well behaved and generally does everything I tell her too. But as with all children there are some instances where she bucks the system. She hated her seat belt and rebelled against it. I quickly and effectively solved the problem. Would I have called the cops to have them speak to her? No, of course not. I just happen to have neighbors that are cops. I am not a lazy parent. I spend a lot of time with my child every day, she gets straight A's, is in a gifted class, black belt in karate, and gets age appropriate punishments. Please enlighten me as to how you think the situation should have been handled. I could not have simply stopped going places, though I did stop taking her to the places she wanted to go. I explained that she could be severely injured or even killed. I took away her privileges, I spanked her behind. NOTHING worked.
And I would love to see the parent that NEVER uses scare tactics and NEVER lies to their child to get them to comply.

**Athena** · May 20th, 2010, 05:55 PM

Originally Posted by Pene784

And with all due respect to you Athena, Yes you most certainly need to experience parenting before you can determine what does and does not work, and how you would or would not handle situations. I stand by that statement.Though you are free to form judgments about anyone and everyone you like. Seriously hop down off your high horse every once in awhile. When you are dealing with children, everything is not cut and dry. Sometimes you need to take drastic measures or simply try something you never tried before, something that gets their attention NOW. Can you imagine how scary it is to have a child that is doing something that could potentially kill them? Can you imagine how scary it is when all your normal discipline techniques do not work? Can you imagine what you would do to help your child before the situation escalates? Each and every child is different. My daughter is very well behaved and generally does everything I tell her too. But as with all children there are some instances where she bucks the system. She hated her seat belt and rebelled against it. I quickly and effectively solved the problem. Would I have called the cops to have them speak to her? No, of course not. I just happen to have neighbors that are cops. I am not a lazy parent. I spend a lot of time with my child every day, she gets straight A's, is in a gifted class, black belt in karate, and gets age appropriate punishments. Please enlighten me as to how you think the situation should have been handled. I could not have simply stopped going places, though I did stop taking her to the places she wanted to go. I explained that she could be severely injured or even killed. I took away her privileges, I spanked her behind. NOTHING worked.
And I would love to see the parent that NEVER uses scare tactics and NEVER lies to their child to get them to comply.

Your first problem was taking this personally when I did nothing to direct it at you personally. And, frankly, since you insist on making it about you, I find it hard to believe that you'd react this defensively if you felt perfectly comfortable about lying to your child, even in what you consider to be extraordinary circumstances.

I have no interest in telling you how you should or should not have dealt with your particular situation. I don't know the specifics. And, again, for the third time, I'm not telling anyone they're a bad parent.

What I DO know is that this is not about a high horse, as much as you may think. Do you know what I do for a living? I'm a process improvement specialist. I walk into companies I don't work for, review processes I've never performed before, then I tell them how to do it better. And it works. How? Because there is methology to EVERYTHING, parenting included. Logic works everywhere - and logic dictates that, if a parent gets to the point that they feel the need to lie to and startle their children into behaving, something went wrong to bring them to that point.

Heaven forbid a parent make a habit out of such tactics, too. You might get away with it once or twice, but as soon as a kid realizes their parent is lying to them to get their compliance, that puts a parent's entire credibility into question, and that's dangerous territory to be in. It can lead to total rejection of authority.

Take a deep breath, Pene. You have no need to justify or explain your actions to me.

**Valasca** · May 20th, 2010, 06:18 PM

Ever watch "cops"? there was an episode back in either late 90's or early 00's where a female cop decided to put the fear of god into the young man. I can't recall what his offense was, stealing something from the store, maybe. I can't recall.
She put the cuffs on him, put him in the back of the cruiser, and then... dunt dunt duuuuhhhhh.... took him home to ma.
Ma seemed pretty appreciative that the officer was trying to scare the kid straight. If you could have seen the look in his eyes, with the snot running out of his nose... I think it might have worked. I hope.

And good question, did the woman who reported this have any children? I am betting the answer is no.

**Pene784** · May 20th, 2010, 08:04 PM

Your first problem was taking this personally when I did nothing to direct it at you personally. And, frankly, since you insist on making it about you, I find it hard to believe that you'd react this defensively if you felt perfectly comfortable about lying to your child, even in what you consider to be extraordinary circumstances.

I have no interest in telling you how you should or should not have dealt with your particular situation. I don't know the specifics. And, again, for the third time, I'm not telling anyone they're a bad parent.

What I DO know is that this is not about a high horse, as much as you may think. Do you know what I do for a living? I'm a process improvement specialist. I walk into companies I don't work for, review processes I've never performed before, then I tell them how to do it better. And it works. How? Because there is methology to EVERYTHING, parenting included. Logic works everywhere - and logic dictates that, if a parent gets to the point that they feel the need to lie to and startle their children into behaving, something went wrong to bring them to that point.

Heaven forbid a parent make a habit out of such tactics, too. You might get away with it once or twice, but as soon as a kid realizes their parent is lying to them to get their compliance, that puts a parent's entire credibility into question, and that's dangerous territory to be in. It can lead to total rejection of authority.

Take a deep breath, Pene. You have no need to justify or explain your actions to me.
__________________

No, I wasn't taking it personally at all or trying to justify the action. I know I am a good parent and I certainly don't need your or anyone elses validation. The way my daughter behaves is validation enough. I was just asking you how you would have dealt with the problem, what you would have done in that or this other mother's situation. The ONLY reason I gave background at all is so you would have known what was already done and what didn't work. And I felt just fine telling my daughter a lie in this situation. And if you think parenting is as simple as choosing a method and sticking with it you have a rude awakening ahead of you. People can be quite unpredictable, especially children. Millions of books have been written on the subject, thousands of talk shows have been taped on the subject, support groups have been made for people coping with the issues, but if you think the whole think figured out to a method good for you. I do agree however that scaring a child or lying to a child should not be the norm or a habit.

**MC30** · May 20th, 2010, 09:56 PM

fire-bugs have issues. she should have just had the cop escort her and the little arsonist to the nearest psych ward.

**Silvahalo** · May 21st, 2010, 01:11 AM

I see so many good points here not sure if my input will matter.

Firstly, I do think 5 yo is too young to be using a scare tactic of this magnitude. He's more likely to remember how scared he was than why he got in trouble. Do I use scare tactics? sure. I have. My son of 6 yo has tried my patience to the ends of the earth and back. Since it is my duty to keep him safe. I have made a threat to involve an officer but would I actually do it? nah. He'll catch on soon enough too so this method of discipline is flawed for more than one reason. BUT, I understand desperation. You have a child that know's how to get out of car seat restrain like a little Houdini and wants to ride without it and stand up in the moving car! so as a parent I find it useful to get my child to think on the choices he makes, bad ones that may or may not involve law enforcement, (down the road), to explain real life consequences.

I told my son, it's against the law for him to ride with out a car seat restrains, AND if an officer see's him do so, he and I can get in trouble. He asked like a million questions then he concluded, he didn't want to see me in jail, (ok so I exaggerated), and certainly, he didn't want to go flying out a window.

I find that disciplining is more about teaching. Tell only what you expect of your child, i if only you are willing to do the same in actions. So I want him to keep his seat restrain on, mine is always on. I want him to listen, I have to stop and drop to listen to him, even as it may be terribly inconvenient, etc. Don't worry so much that your child doesn't listen, (lol, hard one i know), but mores so that he watches everything you do.

What this mother did was miss an opportunity to teach her child about thinking through a problem. IMO, use scare tactics only as a last resort and only as a motivator not as the consequence itself. She taught more about the fear of doing something wrong then doing something right because its the choice that is responsible. Too much for a 5 yo to grasp? hardly. The mother's example of discipline was out of desperation, and I know we all can relate to that. At this point, assuming she's tried much everything, I would have gone to a therapist before a police officer to help motivate my child to change his behavior.