Is assisted suicide murder or mercy.

**Nell** · May 15th, 2010, 01:13 PM

In 1992, Sue Rodriguez forced the right-to-die debate into the spotlight in Canada.

In a video statement played to members of Parliament, the Victoria woman, diagnosed with Lou Gehrig's disease in 1991, asked legislators to change the law banning assisted suicide.

"If I cannot give consent to my own death, whose body is this? Who owns my life?" she said.

The Supreme Court of Canada ultimately ruled against Rodriguez, but her struggle galvanized the public. Rodriguez committed suicide in 1994 with the help of an anonymous doctor.

In Canada, as in most countries, assisted suicide is illegal. But there seems to be a growing movement toward changing the law in many parts of the world.

Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2009/...#ixzz0o1ET06sS

The Death with Dignity act of Oregon has been in place since October 27, 1998. It allows terminally-ill residents of Oregon, who are of sound mind, to end their lives through voluntary self-administration of lethal medications that have been prescribed by a physician specifically for that purpose.Oregon.gov: Death With Dignity Act

4

Washington became the second state to enable the Death with Dignity Act on November 4, 2008.Death With Dignity: Road to Success in Washington

5 Montana followed suit on December 6, 2008.Huffington Post: Montana Assisted Suicide Ruled

6 The decision in Montana is being appealed.Boston Herald: Lawmaker wants NH to legalize assisted suicide

(February 25, 2009)7

http://www.mahalo.com/assisted-suicide

Do you agree with assisted suicide? Do you think it is murder or the right thing to do for someone that is suffering? And do you think that people should be able to just commit suicide at home or should it be under a DR's immediate supervision? What should be the criteria for being assisted with your suicide? Mere depression (these are adults after all) or terminal illness? I think this is a very interesting topic. And I am tired of racism threads and it was this or abortion.

**MadmamainNC** · May 15th, 2010, 02:18 PM

Nell, we are less cruel to our beloved pets.

This is where Religion distorts humane treatment of people. We (as a society) are so caught up in God's chosen time, that playing God is taboo. So we allow our loved ones to suffer terribly in their last days before death. Yet anyone would say "Oh please put the pet down, it's cruel to keep him suffering like that". And you'd be considered a criminal for not!
It's so messed up!

**MadmamainNC** · May 15th, 2010, 02:32 PM

There is a Boston Legal episode on Euthanasia where Shirley wants permission for her father to die. I highly recommend viewing this.

Here's a snippet of Alan Shore's argument.

http://www.livevideo.com/video/9A744...osing-fro.aspx

I don't know how to embed this with the code given but please if a Mod can edit my post with it I'd appreciate it. It truly touches the clear arguments of why this should be allowed and I don't think anyone interested in this topic should miss it.

**~Absynthe~** · May 15th, 2010, 02:40 PM

I feel if someone is terminal and of sane mind then it is their choice.

**Pene784** · May 15th, 2010, 04:04 PM

Amazing that aborting a baby is legal and assisted suicide is considered murder.

**runecire** · May 15th, 2010, 07:04 PM

As long as there are safeguards in place so that the Right to Die cannot be abused, I'm all for it. It's not a far cry from this to Living Wills and Do-Not-Resusitate concent forms. We should be allowed to end our lives as we see fit and with dignity. So many commit suicide already, but so many leave complicated messes for the families to deal with.

**Deja** · May 16th, 2010, 02:27 AM

I was raised Catholic, so suicide is a big no-no - but so is priests having sex with little boys and being protected by their collar, so they can't tell me what to do.

Hubby and I have discussed this often, about quality of life, if it ever becomes an issue. We both see both sides of the argument, but agree that neither of us would want to live in an irreversible coma or vegetative state, and if there was a Dr. Kevorkian-type to help one of us out of it and keep the other out of prison, we'd do it.

**Unamused Cat** · May 16th, 2010, 02:57 AM

I found this to be an interesting article on a book written by Dr. Michael de Ritter.

Wie wollen wir sterben? (What's so bad about dying?)

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...685426,00.html

**Rockin Ma** · May 16th, 2010, 10:38 AM

Some language in a living will is something along the lines of "If my doctors deem my condition terminal and I am being kept alive by artificial means and am unable to make decisions for myself, then my health care agent may convey my wishes to not be kept alive"

That's broad language to me. Artificial means could be, in my opinion, eating and drinking through IV or tube (which isn't too serious) to being on life support.

If a person suffers from dementia or is in a vegetative state, a health care agent can make the decision for them. At times, people are suffering, being kept alive by artificial means, but not so drastic they are unconsious and on life support. I feel those people should be allowed to make their own decision. Seems cruel to me to wait for that person to be so far gone and have suffered so long to where they have to be fully incapacited to have an appointed person make the decision for them.

**MadmamainNC** · May 16th, 2010, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by Deja

I was raised Catholic, so suicide is a big no-no - but so is priests having sex with little boys and being protected by their collar, so they can't tell me what to do.

Same here Whisper being raised Catholic so it can be conflicting to me at times.

When my father was battling cancer I hadn't seen him for a few months due to my living 500 miles away and working at the time. When I was called home during his last days, he was so frail and skinny and couldn't stand nor sit up on his own. He went from a burly 250+ lbs to a skeleton in a matter of a few months. When I saw him I was shocked. You can not imagine the difference. He looked as if he was over 100 years old.

He was now under Hospice care which to me is a fine line from assisted suicide. He was on morphine to lessen his pain. He lived 3 days from my day of arrival and only the first day was alert enough to carry on a simple conversation such as "Are you comfortable?" and his response "Yes or No". That was about it. When under the morphine at his weight and taking in no food since he refused it and under Hospice care are not giving an IV feeding, I can say the morphine not only made his last days easier but also sped the process of his passing. But I still found it cruel to watch him laying there suffering. We can imagine what the body goes through as it's starving itself.

And lets talk about the emotional part of what they are going through especially a man. My father was lost when he retired as many men are. He was in his late 70's when he finally said it's time to rest and relax. But he was never the same after that. Almost like a lost soul. This was the man who did everything, knew how to do everything -a master of many trades. So if retirement did that to him, what was the cancer doing to his psyche?

In the beginning he fought and then finally told they can do no more as it had gone into his liver etc, there was no more fighting to do. He could no longer help his wife with minor task. No longer fix things around the house. Became very bitter when the old man next door came over to help. He was useless in his mind. And I know my father -he felt like a burden.

But in all of this, I can't tell you that in his last hours, he would have opted for an easy way to end his suffering because of what was instilled in him religiously. And when does a person get to the point they can no longer speak for themselves. Or when mind altering drugs could effect their thinking either way? When does it become the loved ones choice?

Thou shall not kill. But it's OK to kill a man during war -just not a man who is in extreme pain with no chance of life even possibly in the next few minutes.

**Pene784** · May 16th, 2010, 01:23 PM

When talking about this subject I always think about the Terry Schiavo case. That woman had to starve and dehydrate to death. That is okay but assisted suicide is murder? What kind of sense does that make. That death had to be so agonizing, where as a simple injection could have brought her death about swiftly. We offer lethal injection as a kind, humane death to death penalty candidates for goodness sake!!! I think this is another aspect of the law that truly needs to be separated from the church.

**MadmamainNC** · May 16th, 2010, 01:35 PM

I can imagine the pain she felt as she lay there starving to death because she could feel pain. She wasn't paralyzed. As if that was so much more humane. It made me SICK.

**DingDang** · May 17th, 2010, 12:08 PM

This hits really close to home for me. My mother has MS and all kinds of neurological problems. I can't even count the surgeries and treatments she's been through, most of which were not helpful. She and I have discussed assisted suicide, and it's pretty clear that when it gets to be too much for her, it is what she wants.

It's painful for me to think about, but I support her. I mean, she's my mom and I love her, of course I want her around for as many years as possible. For her, it's a quality of life/pain issue. She manages for the time being, but I do dread the day she decides it's time. Frankly, it scares the shit out of me, but what are you gonna do?

**MadmamainNC** · May 17th, 2010, 12:16 PM

Thanks for sharing that DingDang. My heart goes out to you and your Mom.

Maybe this is something that everyone should discuss with their loved ones whether we are sick at the moment or not? We don't hesitate to do our WILLS, we shouldn't hesitate to discuss our last days and lessen that burden off our loved ones.

**Aena** · May 17th, 2010, 01:03 PM

Personally I don't think the government should be able to regulate anything I do to my body, or don't do. Nor should they be able to regulate what I put in my body. Now it is different if I am drinking and driving, or something that can harm someone else because of carelessness, but if I am in my own home I should be able to do what I want. Of course it goes without saying that I have to be able to take on my responsibilities as a mother, or get a babysitter while I would be doing whatever I wanted.

**mystery** · May 17th, 2010, 01:06 PM

I think as long as they are supervised under a dr in a hospital, and there are several people including a dr and an attorney who heard the person (who suffering a lethal disease) say they want to go ahead and succomb to death,then it should be allowed.That's my opinion.

**Echo** · May 17th, 2010, 01:12 PM

In my opinion, it's mercy.

We have technology to keep people alive in this day and age. Technology that we didn't always have and if we didn't have a machine to feed you or keep your heart beating you would die naturally wouldn't you?

I also have no problem with assisted suicide if someone is suffering from a terminal illness and cannot take it anymore. It's their life and their decision to make. Nobody elses.

**redsaid** · May 17th, 2010, 02:40 PM

This will be a difficult one for me.
My sister tried to commit suicide by taking a bunch of pills. She wound up in a coma that lasted 2 years to the day.

She was a juvenile diabetic and very suicidal beforehand. I was 13 she was 26 and my family has never been one to talk about things, so I had no idea. There are so many things I could say right now, but I'll stick to the topic of legal/illegal.

I don't care who you are or why you want to die. If you've gone through extensive counseling - and - a phyc doc thinks you're dead set on it, then it’s your choice.

People say that if you’re not physically ill (cancer etc.) and you want to die, that you’re insane.
My sister was sick in many ways. I wish she was still here, but if SHE doesn’t want to be here, then that’s HER choice. Not mine, not my folks’, not the government’s. Hers and hers alone. If she had access to medical treatment to assist her in leaving this world, she would not have been in that horrible, cold, heartless hospital bed deteriorating slowly.

I could have held her hand and helped her though her last moments. Instead she died alone.

Suicide should be assisted by someone who knows what they are doing so that her kind of suffering doesn’t HAVE TO HAPPEN. Families shouldn’t have to find someone with their head blown off, or rotting in the car, or OD’d on drugs. Families should be prepared, so as to say goodbye and not be traumatized. A lot of people commit suicide sometime to get back at their families or the like. That’s probably an issue to address. I have no idea how to handle that type of situation as far as the law goes.

I’m sure this will go on and on. There can’t be any stat’s on how many people who were successful, would say they would rather have lived, cause they didn’t. There are stat’s on those who were not successful, and are glad they are still here. But what are the stat’s on how many would rather have died, and still don’t want to be here?

Suicide should not be illegal, ever. But anyone who want to die should be helped in a way as to let them see a way to live or die peacefully.

**biteme** · May 17th, 2010, 03:06 PM

It's most definitely a case by case

**redsaid** · May 17th, 2010, 03:16 PM

I agree. I always vote for the fella who is at a bad time in his life, to get help and continue life. But if you really want to go, no matter wht the reason, it's your choice. If it's not your OWN choice, then it automatically makes it someone else's responsibility. Who is responsibe for my life other than me?

**Just my luck sucks** · May 17th, 2010, 07:28 PM

http://www.aolhealth.com/2010/05/17/...r-babys-birth/

My children an I were just talking about this the other night, because of the above article. They promised me if I were comatose they would not allow any treatment that they know I wouldn't want--like that of the poor woman in the above link.

To never to be able to wipe my own nose, rear-end, scratch an itch, clean my own ears....etc.

I admire this couple's bravery -- but, life like that--well, it's not for me.

**redsaid** · May 17th, 2010, 07:58 PM

She lived?? I don't know if I could do that. I don't know if I could be happy like that. If i could really be happy, ok. But if I was not happy, I would be a burden. And vise-versa with my hubby.

**redsaid** · May 17th, 2010, 08:13 PM

A little more,

I was 13-15 during those 2 years my sis was in that coma. I can honestly say that I had faith she would come back. True Faith. The day lost that just a little, I realized she might be better off dying, she passed away. True story. I have battled with weather I would have pulled the plug or not. She went through several stages, from being combative at first to lifeless at the end. She even talked to my dad once. She was alive for the first year, moving, clenching her fists, looking around. The only life support she had was the IV and the insulin she required. Mom said not even the docs and nurses in the hospial could regulate her blood sugar. After a year, she stopped breathing and her heart stopped. The brought her back. She was in the ICU when I brought in a portable radio. I played Phil Collins "Against All Odds". She made the worst sounds and started thrashing around. I was 14. I asked my mom what was wrong, she said "I think she's crying". Over the next year I watched her loving, knowing brown eyes turn slowly to cold souless grey eyes. I'm not sure if I wiil ever be able to decide if and when I would or should have "pulled the plug", but I'm hoping I will find the answer.

**brokenandtwisted** · May 24th, 2010, 11:19 PM

Since the case in the OP is a Canadian case...in section seven of the Charter here everyone in Canada (regardless of citizenship) is guaranteed the right to life, liberty and security...however, in the first section, the rights of an individual are subjected to reasonable limits.

I support 'assisted suicide' if the case is examined by 3-5 medical professionals and there are reasonable limitations on the patient's proposed rehabilitation. 'Of sound mind' is entirely subjective. There has to be a biological component involved that indicates terminal illness irrespective of psychological state. Say, for example...you just went to the doctor and discovered you have Alzheimer's and you're 52. In that case I would not agree with 'assisted suicide'.

**AngelFire** · May 24th, 2010, 11:40 PM

In my opinion, I find it to be mercy. I recall how my mother n law suffered with her cancer. It's devastating to watch them suffer so badly. Like someone else said here, if we see our pets in pain, we put them to sleep. We do this so that they won't continue to "suffer", yet we allow our family members to waste away in pain, if they choose not to continue living.

**redsaid** · May 25th, 2010, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by Mybabiesmomma

In my opinion, I find it to be mercy. I recall how my mother n law suffered with her cancer. It's devastating to watch them suffer so badly. Like someone else said here, if we see our pets in pain, we put them to sleep. We do this so that they won't continue to "suffer", yet we allow our family members to waste away in pain, if they choose not to continue living.

I find it is mercy also.

But if the patient has Alzhiemers, and they aren't suffering, are we ending our own suffering? If my mom was just sitting there because she can't do anything else, but she doesn't know it, I think it would be my sufering I am ending. On the other hand, if it were me suffering from Alzhiemers like that, please, put me to sleep. I don't want to cause my family suffering and it wouldn't matter to me.

Please forgive my flip-flopping in this thread. It will become clear that while I have too much experience, I surely don't have the answers. Death doesn't frighten me right now. The method does. I have already had the discussion with my hubby not to keep me alive when I'm already gone. I know what it was like for me waiting for my sister. I would NEVER want that for my family.

But I gotta say, my sister was tormented by her physical and emotional problems. If I could go back and try to save her (I still believe I could have), if she litterally could not get over her depression, I would let her go. Not with the pills she took, or a gun. I would sit by her side until the doc said she was gone. But I highly doubt anyone who hasn't been depressed could share that same view. Suicide is incredibly personal. Yes there are those who use it against their loved ones (like I said before "I'll show them"). I would think rehab would work for that situation. My sister and I were a different story. She had threatened suicide several times, (not to me) and no one did anything about it. They didn't believe her. When she was in the hospital, I tried to slit my wrists. My other sister saw it and told my mom. They never did anything either. Not that they didn't care, they just weren't equipped for it.

I used to be one the crusade to save anyone who even hinted that they wanted to die. It was like "If I can't save my sis, then I will save you". Now I know some can be saved, some can't. No matter what the reason, I still believe it it my choice if I want to live or die. If I were to think about mercy, I think it would show mercy on my family to choose to be a part of my death or not. Instead of finding me with my head blown off, rotting in a running car, or dead in my bed from an overdose. Those are terrible ways to find out someone is gone. Watching my sister was even worse. I would rather have been there.
I just don't think I would have that same opinion if I hadn't been through it with her, and having tried to do it myself.

**brokenandtwisted** · May 25th, 2010, 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by Mybabiesmomma

In my opinion, I find it to be mercy. I recall how my mother n law suffered with her cancer. It's devastating to watch them suffer so badly. Like someone else said here, if we see our pets in pain, we put them to sleep. We do this so that they won't continue to "suffer", yet we allow our family members to waste away in pain, if they choose not to continue living.

But the problem with that logic, though, is you're applying too much emotion. You have to look at her from a biological perspective. Your mother in-law (everyone actually) is just a lump of cells. You have to look at the statistical element of relapse in order to believe death is an act of 'mercy'. A 15% survival rate is still worth taking.

**redsaid** · May 25th, 2010, 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by brokenandtwisted

But the problem with that logic, though, is you're applying too much emotion. You have to look at her from a biological perspective. Your mother in-law (everyone actually) is just a lump of cells. You have to look at the statistical element of relapse in order to believe death is an act of 'mercy'. A 15% survival rate is still worth taking.

I think I understand what you're saying. But at a 15% rate, is it worth it to the family member or to the one who is sick?

**sodom** · May 25th, 2010, 04:40 PM

In the words of GG Allin.....

Fucking pigs, legalize
Fucking pigs, legalize
Fucking pigs, legalize
Legalize, legalize murder

Legalize murder and end this stupid fucking debate.I eat dead things,and should be able to make myself a dead thing by any means necessary.No god,morals or bullshit ideals.Really simple.......

**brokenandtwisted** · May 25th, 2010, 05:25 PM

Originally Posted by redsaid

I think I understand what you're saying. But at a 15% rate, is it worth it to the family member or to the one who is sick?

Well, what is more important? Is one's existence worth more than one's personal suffering? I would argue yes. The possibility of someone surviving is worth more than a relative suffering.