Fuel: What are our options?

**Athena** · April 28th, 2008, 01:27 PM

Today, hundreds of truckers are protesting in D.C., circling the National Mall, horns blaring (Maximum Overdrive, anyone?) and demanding steps be taken to lower fuel costs. Among them, ending the subsidizing of Big Oil, releasing fuel from our Strategic Petroleum Reserves and ceasing the exportation of oil from Alaska.

In this editorial, Glenn Beck suggests that, given the current circumstances, we can finally revisit previously dismissed alternatives, like synthetic fuel:

For example, back in 1980, Congress passed the Energy Security Act, which led to the creation of something called the Synthetic Fuels Corp. (SFC). Lawmakers provided SFC with up to $88 billion in loans and incentives to get started (the equivalent of about $230 billion in today's dollars) with the goal of creating two million barrels a day of synthetic oil within seven years.

So why aren't you putting SFC oil into your SUV right now? Well, it turns out that members of the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries didn't appreciate the competition so they started bringing down the price of oil. From 1980, when SFC launched, to 1986, when it was shut down, oil went from more than $39 a barrel to less than $8 a barrel. Suddenly, synthetic oil didn't seem so important anymore.

In announcing the SFC's closure, then-Energy Secretary John Herrington said that oil prices had simply dropped too low to make it a viable business.

But the good news is that those economics don't work anymore. The state of Montana, which is leading the synthetic fuel charge, says we can now make it for somewhere around $55 a barrel. That's more than a 50 percent discount from what it costs to buy the real stuff.

Definitely something worth pursuing.

What I am curious about is this - Are we finally desperate enough to look at drilling in ANWR? There are ways to probe for oil that are more environmentally friendly, limiting damage to the area. With the economy suffering, food prices rising and the gas situation touching nearly everyone, will we finally tap our resources?

Tips for saving fuel:

- Keep it at 60mph on the freeway. Increasing even 10mph past that increases your fuel consumption. Hovering around 60mph can save you up to $.55/gal.

- Check and replace air filters regularly. This can save you up to $.35/gal.

- Drive less aggressively. Rapid acceleration, breaking and speeding can save about 5% around town and 33% on the freeway.

- By planning ahead and combining trips, you can save a significant amount of gas each week.

See fueleconomy.gov for more tips.

**Nell** · April 28th, 2008, 02:58 PM

I actually just sold my car. Gas had gotten so outrageous it was literally eat or drive.

**swivel** · April 28th, 2008, 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by Nell

I actually just sold my car. Gas had gotten so outrageous it was literally eat or drive.

Goddamn. Are you car-pooling, or just sharing with your husband?

**Nell** · April 28th, 2008, 04:03 PM

Walking. I am on leave for pregnancy so there went my income and I will not go back on welfare. Won't. But honest to god, we were eating like one meal a day the last week of every month.

**swivel** · April 28th, 2008, 05:09 PM

Damn.

I saw a great show on TV last night. It was on Fox's financial news station (which I think you only get with the Hi-Def packages). This guy takes calls from people who need financial advice, and this caller was thinking about filing for bankruptcy. Their house had been foreclosed, they had car debt, the wife was staying at home with the kids, it was a bad situation. And this host was absolutely brilliant. He was telling the dude everything straight-up, with perfect advice. I was applauding the guy.

The current market makes me really happy to be anti-debt. I just don't buy things if I can't afford them. And even then, I buy very little. I can be happy with rice and water as long as I don't have to accrue debt.

I hope things turn around for you guys. Once the kids are a bit older it will be a lot easier.

**Nell** · April 28th, 2008, 05:14 PM

Thank you Swivel. It will, I have faith. And you are right, debt is not good at all. I had a lot of debt in my first marriage cause we were trying to "keep up with the joneses". In my divorce he took all the debt in exchange for not paying me alimony, so now I have mainly just basic bills. I could get help from the state, but I don't want the goverment real deep in my life. We eat, just not steak. And I grew up poor so I can squeeze a penny till Lincoln cries!:D

**Athena** · April 28th, 2008, 05:45 PM

It's nobel of you to try and avoid welfare, Nell. Hopefully, you've got friends and family around who will make sure this period isn't complete hell for you. :)

I'm kidless, which makes me far better able to adjust for these price increases. Of course, three years ago, just before gas prices had really climbed too far, I purchased a V6 that requires premium. Yeah, I'm kicking myself. I just got a bike - I'll probably buy a backpack so that, when the weather around here gets nicer and the gas increases even further, I can get most of my errands done on that.

**Nell** · April 28th, 2008, 05:50 PM

We are going to buy a used scooter for the daddy so he doesn't have to walk everyday. And if I really have to go somewhere I can take a cab. They are only about 7 bucks to get across town. Not really any family help because they are pissed I got pregnant. But oh well, like I said I have been homeless. Not having a car won't kill me.:D

**Raq me darkly** · April 28th, 2008, 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by Athena

What I am curious about is this - Are we finally desperate enough to look at drilling in ANWR?

I wish I had asked the bus driver when I was in Alaska. It was one one of those tourist shuttles, I was the only passenger, and gabby driver. I would have liked to know the Alaskan point of view. They may be fine with it, they get money back for all the oil that comes out of the state. He told me that most parents have the money their kids get put into a trust fund for college (yes, it goes to every Alaskan).

**Athena** · April 28th, 2008, 05:59 PM

Originally Posted by Nell

We are going to buy a used scooter for the daddy so he doesn't have to walk everyday. And if I really have to go somewhere I can take a cab. They are only about 7 bucks to get across town. Not really any family help because they are pissed I got pregnant. But oh well, like I said I have been homeless. Not having a car won't kill me.:D

Mind if I ask how old you are?

I've never really understood when families shun a pregnancy. I mean, sure, perhaps young pregnancy isn't something you want to encourage, but, once it's done, it just makes sense to help.

Yeah, having a car won't kill you. You'll be in really great shape during this pregnancy! ;)

**Nell** · April 28th, 2008, 06:06 PM

Don't mind at all. I am going to be 31 in June. My family is pissed cause they honestly just think I have no brain at all for getting pregnant again. But my mom doesn't really like babies. Now his family is pissed cause he is younger than me and the very dearly loved, only adopted baby boy (after two girls). They are also REALLY wealthy and assume I am just some trailer trash that trapped their:D lovely boy.

**Athena** · April 28th, 2008, 06:18 PM

Yeah...Parents can be pretty weird. Good luck to you and yours. :)

**TheLittleFriend** · April 28th, 2008, 06:27 PM

That's why I shop online!

**Athena** · April 28th, 2008, 06:33 PM

Another fine idea. Lots of online shopping outlets will waive shipping costs if you're buying over a certain amount. Even groceries, I do believe. That's definitely worth investigating. I don't do a ton of online shopping, currently, but I should probably start.

**TheLittleFriend** · April 28th, 2008, 06:33 PM

Originally Posted by Nell

Don't mind at all. I am going to be 31 in June. My family is pissed cause they honestly just think I have no brain at all for getting pregnant again. But my mom doesn't really like babies. Now his family is pissed cause he is younger than me and the very dearly loved, only adopted baby boy (after two girls). They are also REALLY wealthy and assume I am just some trailer trash that trapped their:D lovely boy.

I feel that way, Nell. I was 20 when I had my son. My mom went N-U-T-S. She basically shutted me out. My father is boss of three small stores, so they're wealthy. My mom refused sent me money. I told my sister that I'm pregnant again, she told my mom. She said I am screwing my life up again. That's where I draw the line. We're not on speaking term anymore. Her loss!!

**Nell** · April 28th, 2008, 06:39 PM

My story is so incredibly long that I will tell anyone who wants to ask personally, just not in this forum. My mom kicked me out when I got pregnant the first time. I actually lived in a maternity home when pregnant with her. They eventually adopted her which is an even longer story, but again I will share if you just can't stand the suspense.:D Honestly though, I can't please them so I just don't try anymore.

Funny story though. My mom got pregnant with me when she was a senior in high school, so she has some obvious issues to judge me. I do love her thoughh. Can't help it.

**TheLittleFriend** · April 28th, 2008, 06:42 PM

Originally Posted by Athena

Another fine idea. Lots of online shopping outlets will waive shipping costs if you're buying over a certain amount. Even groceries, I do believe. That's definitely worth investigating. I don't do a ton of online shopping, currently, but I should probably start.

I have to go out to get groceries in Wal-Mart. I know Wal-Mart sucks, but they're cheaper. I usually compare the quaility and price...I go to expensive food store to get best steaks and then go to Wal-Mart to get cheap bread and milk. I make the list of where and what food to get and make it into one trip from home for one whole day. It saves my time, money and gas. I am addicted to Target. I used to go to Target all the time (way back when the gas is cheaper)....so, to save gas, I shop online. Nothing is better than shopping online in my pj and drinking coffee! :D

**TheLittleFriend** · April 28th, 2008, 06:48 PM

Originally Posted by Nell

My story is so incredibly long that I will tell anyone who wants to ask personally, just not in this forum. My mom kicked me out when I got pregnant the first time. I actually lived in a maternity home when pregnant with her. They eventually adopted her which is an even longer story, but again I will share if you just can't stand the suspense.:D Honestly though, I can't please them so I just don't try anymore.

Funny story though. My mom got pregnant with me when she was a senior in high school, so she has some obvious issues to judge me. I do love her thoughh. Can't help it.

She need to have a long look at herself before she judge you. Just saying.

**The Diabolical Mr. Lieman** · April 28th, 2008, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by Nell

Walking. I am on leave for pregnancy so there went my income and I will not go back on welfare. Won't. But honest to god, we were eating like one meal a day the last week of every month.

Thats fucking horrible. Im sorry to hear that.

Welfare is for those who really need it, and it's a good system for those who don't abuse it. Personally, I hope you use it. And I can't tell you how bad I sympathize with you. I've lost lots of work because these goddamn fuel costs, and whereas I used to feast with no problem, Im eating noodles every fucking night just so that I can barely afford rent. I hope things change for you.

**Nell** · April 28th, 2008, 07:07 PM

Yep, love them tasty ramen noodles. I tell alot of it on my MySpace page because I like to get things out. But I hide on MySpace under my boyfriends name. So, not alot of people know the whole sorted story.

The reason I don't want to go on welfare again is because not only do they make you feel like crap but if they decide for any reason you didn't deserve it in the first place they will make you pay it back. I am now paying back almost $5000 that I recieved years ago because of lying on my ex husbands part. Again, long story.

Now that I think about it I could write a book! It is honestly a very interesting life story so far.

**TheLittleFriend** · April 28th, 2008, 07:09 PM

That sucks. I'm sorry, Nell.

**celtic friend** · April 28th, 2008, 08:41 PM

Originally Posted by Athena

It's nobel of you to try and avoid welfare, Nell. Hopefully, you've got friends and family around who will make sure this period isn't complete hell for you. :)

I'm kidless, which makes me far better able to adjust for these price increases. Of course, three years ago, just before gas prices had really climbed too far, I purchased a V6 that requires premium. Yeah, I'm kicking myself. I just got a bike - I'll probably buy a backpack so that, when the weather around here gets nicer and the gas increases even further, I can get most of my errands done on that.

I just sold my V6 for the downpayment on my V8 b/c I needed room for the kids I babysit plus mine. WTF was I thinking? We needed the room but gas prices are a killer.

**celtic friend** · April 28th, 2008, 08:51 PM

Originally Posted by The Diabolical Mr. Lieman

Thats fucking horrible. Im sorry to hear that.

Welfare is for those who really need it, and it's a good system for those who don't abuse it. Personally, I hope you use it. And I can't tell you how bad I sympathize with you. I've lost lots of work because these goddamn fuel costs, and whereas I used to feast with no problem, Im eating noodles every fucking night just so that I can barely afford rent. I hope things change for you.

I think if you need welfare or wic you should use it, that is what it is there for.
You are going to have 6 kids to feed and clothe, please use it if they need it.

**KillBill20** · April 28th, 2008, 09:02 PM

Absolutely not for drilling in Alaska. I've been opposed to that since it first came about. Why? Because its a temporary fix to a bigger problem that isn't going to go away. You're not accomplishing anything by doing that.

Instead we need to seriously work on alternatives to oil. And I'm not talking about the big fucking myth that is hydrogen. We need realistic solutions, not proposals that are 20 years away.

I'm a big supporter of Electric Cars. I realize that a limited range EV isn't for everyone, but the technology is out there. We could make these cars today, but for a number of reasons they don't. Making an affordable, long lasting EV, today, would be a phenominal step in the right direction. There are plenty of us who could get along just fine with a 100 mile range EV, I know I could. And for those long trips, its not that unrealistic for a family of four to own more than one car. Why not own one EV, for all your in town trips...

... and a plug-in hybrid for the rest. Plug-in hybrids are great. While the market for an EV may be limited... there is no reason why everyone who buys a new car, shouldn't be buying a plug-in hybrid. For those who don't follow this kind of stuff, a plug-in hybrid is an EV with a gas engine. So you get your 100 mile range of your EV (that you charge up every night, and drive around on without using ANY gas) but in case you have to go on a long trip, or forget to plug your car in there is a small hybrid motor you can fill up and use. It works just like any other hybrid, like a Toyota Prius and will get really good gas mileage. The best of both worlds basically.

The reason why we don't is because it frightens oil companies. Look at how much money these bastards are pulling in, and they know damn good and well that they can continue to raise the price of gas and people will continue to pay for it. Until we force them to do something different.

I'll post some links to some good EV sites if anyone is interested in learning more about hybrids, plug-in hybrids, or EV cars.

~Kyle

**Nell** · April 28th, 2008, 09:05 PM

It is 5 kids. Ok, the first two my mother has adopted. Really long sad complicated story why. My ex husband has temporary custody of my 2 boys while I try to get back on my feet. Yes I do pay child support for these children. Half of my paycheck went to them and half of my leave check, which is way smaller, goes to them also. There father does not need it but it is important to me to be responsible for lives I create. This is #5. I live with here father and have for almost 2 years. He works at McDonalds but he works hard, taking extra hours when he can, so he supports us. Not lavishly, but ok. So I don't need welfare, if I had starving kids in the house I would not be so prideful, believe me. I have stories I could tell you about how little pride I had while trying to get by with the first two.

But thank you all for your concern, really. I appreciate it.

**Athena** · April 29th, 2008, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by KillBill20

The reason why we don't is because it frightens oil companies. Look at how much money these bastards are pulling in, and they know damn good and well that they can continue to raise the price of gas and people will continue to pay for it. Until we force them to do something different.

Thanks for the very informative post, Kyle!

Drilling in ANWR would not be a solution, and I don't think anyone is viewing it as such. It could, however, provide us some relief until a viable and wide-ranging solution can be found. The fact of the matter is, a great number of consumers in this country cannot afford a hybrid. This is why, although I'll have to research it, I am intrigued by a synthetic fuel option. Something that current cars can run on that can be manufactured here in the States and costs half as much as current petrol? I can get down with that. I just wonder how close we are to being capable of producing the amount required.

**KillBill20** · April 30th, 2008, 12:35 AM

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euKMi3APHP8"]YouTube - Mitsubishi i MiEV electric car[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OXw8U6SLM4"]YouTube - Mitsubishi i MiEV SPORT 4WD electric concept car[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVkIZQj-flc"]YouTube - 100MPG Car ! 1c per mile 1000Miles per tank of gas![/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnUGvfCkvbk"]YouTube - Mitsubishi MiEV Electric Car In-Wheel Motor Concept[/ame]

~Kyle

**swivel** · April 30th, 2008, 07:08 AM

Originally Posted by KillBill20

The reason why we don't is because it frightens oil companies. Look at how much money these bastards are pulling in, and they know damn good and well that they can continue to raise the price of gas and people will continue to pay for it. Until we force them to do something different.

For a long time this has been the argument for why we don't have cars with better gas mileage. As if the car and oil companies were in cahoots with one another. I think the reality has been that people just wouldn't purchase smaller, more efficient cars because gas has been too cheap. The reason we are finally seeing hybrids built and purchased (with hydrogen and electric cars coming soon) is because gas went from $1.50 to $3.50 in just a handful of years.

It has always been about supply and demand. The cost of R&D for a new vehicle line would never have been paid for by the several hundred people pining for a car that ran on vegetable oil. But the point of profitability is here, and we are seeing the car manufacturers respond.

The idea that all these companies would ALL agree to not make money, just to keep people in ANOTHER industry more profitable never made sense to me, and I'm happy to see my sanity vindicated.

**Athena** · April 30th, 2008, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by swivel

For a long time this has been the argument for why we don't have cars with better gas mileage. As if the car and oil companies were in cahoots with one another. I think the reality has been that people just wouldn't purchase smaller, more efficient cars because gas has been too cheap. The reason we are finally seeing hybrids built and purchased (with hydrogen and electric cars coming soon) is because gas went from $1.50 to $3.50 in just a handful of years.

This is true. However, I think, a secondary reason for people being unwilling to buy these more efficient cars is because...

They're just not sexy. Is it some stipulation that efficient cars HAVE to be heinous-looking? Car-makers have to appeal to aesthetics.
I have some fairly standard taste in vehicles and I've seen maybe one hybrid that I would roll.

There's a huge faction of car consumers who consider little more than the look. I can't imagine how expensive gas would have get to change that.