Study: States can't afford death penalty.

[skeptik]

Well---DUH.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/10/20/...rss_topstories

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- At 678, California has the nation's largest death row population, yet the state has not executed anyone in four years.

But it spends more than $130 million a year on its capital punishment system -- housing and prosecuting inmates and coping with an appellate system that has kept some convicted killers waiting for an execution date since the late 1970s.

This is according to a new report that concludes that states are wasting millions on an inefficient death penalty system, diverting scarce funds from other anti-crime and law enforcement programs.

"Thirty-five states still retain the death penalty, but fewer and fewer executions are taking place every year," said Richard Dieter, executive director of the Death Penalty Information Center. "But the overall death row population has remained relatively steady. At a time of budget shortfalls nationwide, the death penalty is turning into an expensive form of life without parole."

His group commissioned the study released Tuesday.

A privately conducted poll of 500 police chiefs released with the report found the death penalty ranked last among their priorities for reducing violent crime. Only 1 percent found it to the best way to achieve that goal. Adding police officers ranked first.

The death row population in 2007, the most-recent statistic available from the Justice Department, was 3,220. It was at 2,250 two decades ago, but the numbers have not grown significantly since 2000.

Forty executions have occurred so far in 2009 in 10 states, all by lethal injection. That total is up from 37 for all of last year, but less than half of the high of 98, from 10 years ago. The Supreme Court reinstated capital punishment in 1976.

Ohio recently suspended lethal injections after corrections officials were forced to cancel the execution of Romell Broom last month, when a suitable vein could not be found after two hours of trying.

Virginia plans a Nov. 10 execution for John Allen Muhammad, the so-called Beltway Sniper, convicted of randomly killing 10 people in 2002 with a high-powered rifle.

The Death Penalty Information Center study found that death penalty costs can average $10 million more per year per state than life sentences. Increased costs include higher security needs and guaranteed access to an often lengthy pardon and appellate process. The group is an information resource on capital punishment, and opposes its application as unworkable, inefficient and prone to mistakes.

Florida, where two men have been put to death this year, spends an average of $24 million per execution. That average has remained consistent since 2005, according to the Death Penalty Information Center.

The thought that we are going to spend 20-fucking-million to teach Casey Anthony's ass a lesson just absolutely INFURIATES me. I also think that LWOP is a worse sentence than death.

What do you think?

[sleepinwithangels]

I'm with you..I think death is too easy a punishment for people like Casey Anthony..I don't agree with the death penalty because they MIGHT just get it wrong..I don't believe in it cause it costs us more money to give these people the escape.

As far as I'm concerned they're not worth the money it costs to kill em'

Let em' rot instead.

[Pennie]

Why does it it cost so much to execute someone? A trip to the sporting/hunting dept at Wal-Mart and your good to go, all for under $200.00.

[skeptik]

The process of appeal. That's where the money goes. I just think it's a fucking waste. It's not like we are executing them fast enough to combat overcrowding. How's about we let some low level drug offenders out and make a bit of room?

[brokenandtwisted]

The process of appeal. That's where the money goes. I just think it's a fucking waste. It's not like we are executing them fast enough to combat overcrowding. How's about we let some low level drug offenders out and make a bit of room?

^ Pretty much this. It has little to do with the act of actually killing the person. Lethal injection is simply injecting the criminal with three chemicals.

[Athena]

The process of appeal. That's where the money goes. I just think it's a fucking waste. It's not like we are executing them fast enough to combat overcrowding. How's about we let some low level drug offenders out and make a bit of room?

Actually, it's not the appeal process either. Remember, LWOP cases get appealed, too... but capital cases are still dramatically more expensive from trial through execution than the average non-capital case is from trial through natural death.

It's the trial itself that drives up the cost. Because capital cases have a higher level of scrutiny applied to them, you're talking larger defense/prosecution teams, longer preparation time, more expert testimony, longer deliberation, etc. All these costs combined add millions of dollars to the tab. Many states also spend more to house death row inmates than they do regular inmates.

Lots of info here.

There's no logical reason to support the death penalty.

[skeptik]

Why is it more to house death row inmates? More security?

[Rawrehz]

25 fuckin miliion dollars to inject a POS. . . woah.
!st thing I thought after reading this was Casey Anthony getting the death penalty back home in Fla. Ridiculous.

If they're gonna waste so much damn money housing these people, they might as well just put them in major solitude for life. Real life interaction once a day for about 2 mintues walking in and out of the jail cell. That's torture right there, rather than an easy way out and wasting government money needed for other stupid shit.

Ever been locked ina teeny tiny cell for days at a time, no one near, nada. Just you and your tiny lil voices in your head wishing to be shot in the dome???
yeah, it TRULEY sucks.

[Athena]

Why is it more to house death row inmates? More security?

That's part of it. From the link: "Incarceration: Most death rows involve solitary confinement in a special facility. These require more security and other accommodations as the prisoners are kept for 23 hours a day in their cells." In California, it costs three times what it costs for conventional housing, $90,000 annually vs. $34,000.

I can't find a specific breakdown of why else it costs more, though.

[Pete Bondurant]

I'd kill every single one of them for free.

[Echo]

The process of appeal. That's where the money goes. I just think it's a fucking waste. It's not like we are executing them fast enough to combat overcrowding. How's about we let some low level drug offenders out and make a bit of room?

I agree.

I also don't agree with death penalty for many reasons. Death is too good for Casey Anthony. Death is too good for the Lollipop case. Why put them out of their misery? Rotting in prison for the rest of your life with zero chance of ever walking out of the door is a more horrible sentence than going to sleep forever.

I mean, there are always the Jalepeno Dip Socials, but how many of them can you really have before you become bored?

She is so young......LWOP would be long and torturous for her. Especially if she ever ended up in GenPop.

[icannottellalie]

Ridiculous. My perfect system: Only violent criminals go to prison. They must have done something to takes anothers rights away somehow. It could be physical, sexual, psychological, etc. The kinds of people we see on here. Prison equals minimal food and water, no human contact, no exit of the very small cell until death, no entertainment or contact with outside world. Prison. Your life should mirror of the soul of your victim. As far as religious material, I admit I think that of my own religion should be the only allowed, but this is America. So, no religious material. The truth needs no books or men to become known to you. We all find our truth when we seek it within ourselves. Yes, no religious material. I do not believe in the death penalty. If we believe we will be judged at death, because we are Christians we want the criminal to have the opportunity to turn his life over to Christ before he passes. Life in prison gives him that time should he choose to take it. If we believe in an afterlife of daisies and lollipops then why would we want this waste of flesh to get to that heaven sooner that he was meant to? If we believe in nothing after death, we know this life is the only life and our only opportunity to punish this soul(or non soul, how ever you look at it.)
On the other hand, I believe in evil. I dont want to pay for or waste resources on evil, who would? The problem is human imperfection. Is it ok for 1 innocent man to die as long as we have 2 bad guys turned back to dust? what about 10? what about 100, 1000? I think that 1 innocent mans life is worth imprisoning the rest for life, no matter what the cost.
Yet another problem we are capable of fixing by simply being better people. Better parents, teachers, friends, leaders.....a large part of my faith and why I would like the criminals to learn about it.
Interesting: "Singapore and Los Angeles have equivalent populations, yet in one year Singapore had 58 murders (most followed by swift execution) while Los Angeles had 1,063." http://www.theologyonline.com/DEATH.HTML

[Pete Bondurant]

"Singapore and Los Angeles have equivalent populations, yet in one year Singapore had 58 murders (most followed by swift execution) while Los Angeles had 1,063."

Singapore's demographic profile is quite different from the Los Angelean demographic profile.

[skeptik]

Bumping this up for those that want to discuss this.

Still game?

[Aslan]

Sure!
I say we ask the government to hire Pete Bondurant

I'd kill every single one of them for free.

On a more serious note, as a society there needs to be rules. The more I travel and the older I get I realize that the folks who think the rules do not apply to them are the ones who are the most dangerous.
If you are without a solid income or stable housing, what's to stop you from committing a crime if the punishment is setting you up with promised meals and a place to sleep? In effect, better than you had before.
That's the whitewashed version, actually.
How about "if you're convicted you are dead before the sun sets"?
That's the hardline version and opens up debate as to how fair our legal system is and how some have been put to death and later proved innocent.
Personally I'm for the death penalty. I'm also for it not taking 25 damned years to be carried out.

Casey Anthony is an excellent example of why.

Edit:
As are http://www.dreamindemon.com/forums/s...091#post285091
And the two brothers who carried out the Witchita Massacre and were found guilty beyond all reasonable doubt.
Look it up, that will break your heart.

Since when do people who killed me get more mercy than I was shown?
Just a thought

[battery jackson]

i agree with what pete said, although i'd refuse to execute anyone i personally feel doesn't deserve it. as far as the rest goes? fuck em. a lot of these people aint worth the money wasted to food, clothe, and shelter em. it is in humanity's best interest to remove certain individuals from existence so that they can no longer poison the lives of others. rights schmights. it's transitionary phase time baby.

[Athena]

For as long as humans are maintaining the justice system, the system is prone to error. THAT is where "rights" come in. There can be no collateral damage. We shouldn't be okay with executing innocent civilians, even if it's only a few, so long as we retain the ability to kill the guilty ones. This is the reason American should abandon capital punishment. The fact that is costs so much more is just added justification.

[malq]

For as long as humans are maintaining the justice system, the system is prone to error. THAT is where "rights" come in. There can be no collateral damage. We shouldn't be okay with executing innocent civilians, even if it's only a few, so long as we retain the ability to kill the guilty ones. This is the reason American should abandon capital punishment. The fact that is costs so much more is just added justification.

I disagree.
There has always been collateral damage in every form of punishment.
just because this punishment is more sever than all others shouldnt change a thing.
America needs tp increase the frequency of executions and knock out the BS. No wonder its not much of a deterrent. Criminals know these debates keep them in appeals for decades.

If they streamlined the procedure, they would eliminate the high cost and court clogging.

One person is not deciding if the accused is guilty. It is always a jury of 12. It is carefully deliberated with evidence at hand beyond a reasonable doubt.
If the death penalty is not allowed to be used in this fashion because a jury may make a mistake, then that method should not be used to determine any other punishment. This includes DUIS, traffic and child molestation. Just because we are talking about execution does not bolster the arguement that a jury is valid for anything but capitol cases. We should feel just as bad for putting someone in the slammer, as we should for executing them if we were wrong.
It's the principle of the matter if you will.

BTW how many people has the government executed by letting lobbyists tell you how good cigarettes are for decades?? and you gripe about a handful of so called innocents. Ok, so those people CHOSE to smoke. maybe..., thats another debate

[Aslan]

Criminals know these debates keep them in appeals for decades.

You know what's funny? The ones who should pay attention won't.
Neat

[Athena]

I disagree.
There has always been collateral damage in every form of punishment.
just because this punishment is more sever than all others shouldnt change a thing.

I think the depravity it requires to endorse the state-sanctioned execution of innocent civilians really speaks to someone's character. Luckily, most people disagree with a callous statement like this.

America needs tp increase the frequency of executions and knock out the BS. No wonder its not much of a deterrent. Criminals know these debates keep them in appeals for decades.

If they streamlined the procedure, they would eliminate the high cost and court clogging.

No, the CONSTITUTION keeps criminals in appeals for decades. That will never change. "Streamlining" the system, as it stands currently, would dramatically increase the "collateral damage"... of course, that wouldn't bother you.

One person is not deciding if the accused is guilty. It is always a jury of 12. It is carefully deliberated with evidence at hand beyond a reasonable doubt.
If the death penalty is not allowed to be used in this fashion because a jury may make a mistake, then that method should not be used to determine any other punishment. This includes DUIS, traffic and child molestation. Just because we are talking about execution does not bolster the arguement that a jury is valid for anything but capitol cases. We should feel just as bad for putting someone in the slammer, as we should for executing them if we were wrong.

This is a joke, right? The severity of the consequence shouldn't impact how we handle cases? I can't even... I don't even know what to think about that. That's like saying we should feel equally bad for kidnapping someone as we would for murdering them. It just doesn't jive logically.

BTW how many people has the government executed by letting lobbyists tell you how good cigarettes are for decades?? and you gripe about a handful of so called innocents. Ok, so those people CHOSE to smoke. maybe..., thats another debate

I love it when people answer their own questions.

I don't know why I get involved in death penalty debates. Those who support the death penalty are emotion-over-logic people, and I learned long ago there's no reversing that. I take solace in the fact that this country - and the world - is slowly but surely doing away with the death penalty.

[malq]

[quote=Athena;336770]

I think the depravity it requires to endorse the state-sanctioned execution of innocent civilians really speaks to someone's character. Luckily, most people disagree with a callous statement like this.

Not callous, it's just an unemotional observation. Look at the big picture. People die of mistakes every day. Human mistakes. It's for the greater good. To take a small comment and judge ones character is laughable at least. I expected better

"Streamlining" the system, as it stands currently, would dramatically increase the "collateral damage"... of course, that wouldn't bother you.

Emotional but, I agree with you finally. It would not bother me one bit. In fact I would see it as for the greater good.
One question though? How exactly how would it DRAMATICALLY increase the collateral damage? Are you seeing a bell curve here? it could only get better.

I don't know why I get involved in death penalty debates. Those who support the death penalty are emotion-over-logic people, and I learned long ago there's no reversing that. I take solace in the fact that this country - and the world - is slowly but surely doing away with the death penalty

How you can generalize those who support the death penalty by saying they are all emotion over logic people gets me all.....emotional.
I am not sure why you get involved either. Your act is polished but you seem to enjoy the emotional part of it.
I just look at it as a mechanism that needs to be improved by reducing red tape and debate. The more do gooders whine the more it bogs things down.
The # of people who die innocently in the DP system are small compared to people who die at the hands of those who should have been put to death long ago. Very small. Think big my friend.

[Athena]

for the greater good.

How so? This, Malq, is where your argument fails. Neither you nor anyone I've ever discussed capital punishment with is able to illustrate in quantifiable terms how executing murderers helps the greater good in any way.

To take a small comment and judge ones character is laughable at least. I expected better.

It's in the details, Malq. People can front all they want, but the quality of their character is ultimately determined by the little things, like the inability (or unwillingness) to differentiate between deaths as the result of accidents and the execution of innocent people. And when you suggest that you're alright with the margin of those wrongful executions growing, well, it speaks for itself.

One question though? How exactly how would it DRAMATICALLY increase the collateral damage? Are you seeing a bell curve here? it could only get better.

HUNDREDS of people, Malq, that have been exonerated as the result of appeals... appeals they might never have gotten if the system were to be "streamlined" in the way I get the feeling you'd like it to be. Illinois stopped executing people indefinitely 10 years ago because more death row inmates had been exonerated after conviction than not since they reinstituted the death penalty back in the 70s.

How you can generalize those who support the death penalty by saying they are all emotion over logic people gets me all.....emotional.

Again, because the only argument I've gotten from death penalty advocates is an emotional one. There's plenty of evidence to this end on this very forum, and this is only one of a dozen places I've discussed the topic at length.

The # of people who die innocently in the DP system are small compared to people who die at the hands of those who should have been put to death long ago.

That doesn't even make sense! It would make sense if executing these people reduced victimizations, but it doesn't, because, when someone sentenced to the alternative, life w/o parole, they're no more a threat to the community than a dead man.

[The Diabolical Mr. Lieman]

the whole system needs to be reworked.

Life WithOut Parole just isn't good enough. There are plenty of men who live decent lives in prison, get married, get laid, whatever. Some badguys just need to be killed.

We need to find a way to do it that's cheaper, there's no question. Appeals? It's a part of it, but anyone gets to appeal.

[Pete Bondurant]

Violent offenders should be segregated from other inmates. I call this Level III. These individuals should be completely removed from society. Shaved heads. Uniforms. No television. No conjugal visits. No weights. No gym. No basketball. No magazines. One cell, two inmates. One cell four inmates....I do not care. Give them barracks. If an inmate attacks another inmate, said inmate is executed. Put them to work. Ten hours a day, seven days a week. Digging holes....filling them up. Breaking big rocks into little rocks. No education. No rehabilitation. They do not get out....ever. They die, their remains are cremated and buried in a common pit.

All of your liberal rehabilitation programmes are acceptable for the non-violent prisoners. This is fine for the career car thieves and the white-collar criminals, the con-artists and the prostitutes. I call this a Level II facility. Rewards for good behaviour and so forth.