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Thread: 9 year old rides subway AND bus alone

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    9 year old rides subway AND bus alone

    Why I Let My 9-Year-Old Ride the Subway Alone
    By LENORE SKENAZY | April 3, 2008

    I left my 9-year-old at Bloomingdale’s (the original one) a couple weeks ago. Last seen, he was in first floor handbags as I sashayed out the door.

    Bye-bye! Have fun!

    And he did. He came home on the subway and bus by himself.

    Was I worried? Yes, a tinge. But it didn’t strike me as that daring, either. Isn’t New York as safe now as it was in 1963? It’s not like we’re living in downtown Baghdad.

    Anyway, for weeks my boy had been begging for me to please leave him somewhere, anywhere, and let him try to figure out how to get home on his own. So on that sunny Sunday I gave him a subway map, a MetroCard, a $20 bill, and several quarters, just in case he had to make a call.

    No, I did not give him a cell phone. Didn’t want to lose it. And no, I didn’t trail him, like a mommy private eye. I trusted him to figure out that he should take the Lexington Avenue subway down, and the 34th Street crosstown bus home. If he couldn’t do that, I trusted him to ask a stranger. And then I even trusted that stranger not to think, “Gee, I was about to catch my train home, but now I think I’ll abduct this adorable child instead.”

    Long story short: My son got home, ecstatic with independence.

    Long story longer, and analyzed, to boot: Half the people I’ve told this episode to now want to turn me in for child abuse. As if keeping kids under lock and key and helmet and cell phone and nanny and surveillance is the right way to rear kids. It’s not. It’s debilitating — for us and for them.

    And yet —

    “How would you have felt if he didn’t come home?” a New Jersey mom of four, Vicki Garfinkle, asked.

    Guess what, Ms. Garfinkle: I’d have been devastated. But would that just prove that no mom should ever let her child ride the subway alone?

    No. It would just be one more awful but extremely rare example of random violence, the kind that hyper parents cite as proof that every day in every way our children are more and more vulnerable.

    “Carlie Brucia — I don’t know if you’re familiar with that case or not, but she was in Florida and she did a cut-through about a mile from her house … and midday, at 11 in the morning, she was abducted by a guy who violated her several times, killed her, and left her behind a church.”

    That’s the story that the head of safetynet4kids.com, Katharine Francis, immediately told me when I asked her what she thought of my son getting around on his own. She runs a company that makes wallet-sized copies of a child’s photo and fingerprints, just in case.

    Well of course I know the story of Carlie Brucia. That’s the problem. We all know that story — and the one about the Mormon girl in Utah and the one about the little girl in Spain — and because we do, we all run those tapes in our heads when we think of leaving our kids on their own. We even run a tape of how we’d look on Larry King.

    “I do not want to be the one on TV explaining my daughter’s disappearance,” a father, Garth Chouteau, said when we were talking about the subway issue.

    These days, when a kid dies, the world — i.e., cable TV — blames the parents. It’s simple as that. And yet, Trevor Butterworth, a spokesman for the research center STATS.org, said, “The statistics show that this is an incredibly rare event, and you can’t protect people from very rare events. It would be like trying to create a shield against being struck by lightning.”

    Justice Department data actually show the number of children abducted by strangers has been going down over the years. So why not let your kids get home from school by themselves?

    “Parents are in the grip of anxiety and when you’re anxious, you’re totally warped,” the author of “A Nation of Wimps,” Hara Estroff Marano, said. We become so bent out of shape over something as simple as letting your children out of sight on the playground that it starts seeming on par with letting them play on the railroad tracks at night. In the rain. In dark non-reflective coats.

    The problem with this everything-is-dangerous outlook is that over-protectiveness is a danger in and of itself. A child who thinks he can’t do anything on his own eventually can’t.

    Meantime, my son wants his next trip to be from Queens. In my day, I doubt that would have struck anyone as particularly brave. Now it seems like hitchhiking through Yemen.

    Here’s your MetroCard, kid. Go.

    lskenazy@yahoo.com

    ____________________________________

    I first caught this woman on Fox News today and then proceeded to pull up the story on the Internet. I've got to say, I'm happy there are still people like this out there. Parents have become too hyper. Period. News has become so easily and widely disseminated that parents have refused to consider the fact that kids are a hell of a lot more likely to get home safely than they are to get abducted. Not just a little bit more likely, people, a HELL OF A LOT more likely to get home safely. When parents refuse to allow their kids the opportunity to learn independence and self-reliance they are in-fact making sure their kids are unable to function properly when they get out on their own. Those parents are the ones that should be reported to CPS, not the parents who are helping their children prepare for the real world...for life.

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    Non-cooch slinger Rotten Apple's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TXChris View Post
    When parents refuse to allow their kids the opportunity to learn independence and self-reliance they are in-fact making sure their kids are unable to function properly when they get out on their own. Those parents are the ones that should be reported to CPS, not the parents who are helping their children prepare for the real world...for life.
    BULLSHIT!!!!

    It absolutely depends on the maturity of the kid. I know some teens I don't trust to cross the street alone.

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    Wadi Thooo Wannabe Lizard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kathy View Post
    I know some teens I don't trust to cross the street alone.
    Yeah, we've had some of them post on this site.

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    Grand Knight maryhaze's Avatar
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    my little heathens are 7 & 9. they go outside & play on the cleared part of 400 acres with no adult supervision, but no way in hell would i allow them loose in a city. "stranger danger" aside, i'd be scared they'd get hit by a car. JMO

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kathy View Post
    BULLSHIT!!!!

    It absolutely depends on the maturity of the kid. I know some teens I don't trust to cross the street alone.
    And the only way a child, or any person for that matter, becomes mature is by being given the opportunity to obtain it. Maturity isn't something that just happens. It's not caused by age. It manifests itself purely from the learnings of life. Maturity cannot be taught and it cannot be given. It must be earned. It comes from understanding, and one cannot get understanding from living in a sheltered environment. One has to be given the opportunity to make decisions and then be expected to live with the rewards or consequences. Life is meant to be experienced and only by experiencing it can one obtain said maturity.

    Parents are scared because they hear "all" these news stories about kids being abducted. What must be noted, however, is that the number of kids actually abducted is obscenely minute in comparison to the actual number of opportunities that present themselves. Unfortunately, because the news spends so much time hyping up these few rare events parents become obsessed with worry.

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    Enigmatic Motherfucker Morbid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TXChris View Post
    Parents are scared because they hear "all" these news stories about kids being abducted. What must be noted, however, is that the number of kids actually abducted is obscenely minute in comparison to the actual number of opportunities that present themselves. Unfortunately, because the news spends so much time hyping up these few rare events parents become obsessed with worry.
    More sweeping generalizations and talking out of your ass. Parents don't let there kids do things for a myriad of reasons. Not just because of the media. But thanks for telling us parents why we do what we do with our kids. I'll be sure to do the same when you are raising any.

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    Non-cooch slinger Rotten Apple's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TXChris View Post
    And the only way a child, or any person for that matter, becomes mature is by being given the opportunity to obtain it. Maturity isn't something that just happens. It's not caused by age. It manifests itself purely from the learnings of life. Maturity cannot be taught and it cannot be given. It must be earned. It comes from understanding, and one cannot get understanding from living in a sheltered environment. One has to be given the opportunity to make decisions and then be expected to live with the rewards or consequences. Life is meant to be experienced and only by experiencing it can one obtain said maturity.
    Bullshit again!!

    There are just some children (even adults) that are not equipped mentally to handle the situations that the real world can put them in.

    I feel, that by age 9, by daughter will probably be one of those that can handle more freedom, but I know for a fact there are a few kids out there that can't. No matter how much freedom they are given, kids develop at different rates. I am not gonna let some studies and hypothetical situations guilt me into giving my child freedom and putting her in harms way before her time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Morbid View Post
    More sweeping generalizations and talking out of your ass. Parents don't let there kids do things for a myriad of reasons. Not just because of the media. But thanks for telling us parents why we do what we do with our kids. I'll be sure to do the same when you are raising any.
    The stories in the media play a huge part in why most parents do not allow their kids the freedom to grow and mature. Just because it may not be the reason why you don't allow your children to play outside alone does not make it invalid. It's stories that start with a child being abducted and end with said child being raped or killed that freak parents out. They worry about the rare event a child is abducted and don't rationally think through it. That's fine. That's their decision as parents. However, to consider calling CPS on a parent that allows their child the opportunity to grow and mature is ridiculous. On that note, assuming one does not have a child would be talking out of your ass, wouldn't it? ;)

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    Enigmatic Motherfucker Morbid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TXChris View Post
    On that note, assuming one does not have a child would be talking out of your ass, wouldn't it? ;)
    I don't assume. I never said had a child, I said raising one. ;)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kathy View Post
    Bullshit again!!

    There are just some children (even adults) that are not equipped mentally to handle the situations that the real world can put them in.

    I feel, that by age 9, by daughter will probably be one of those that can handle more freedom, but I know for a fact there are a few kids out there that can't. No matter how much freedom they are given, kids develop at different rates. I am not gonna let some studies and hypothetical situations guilt me into giving my child freedom and putting her in harms way before her time.
    Great point! And I do agree. However, I am not saying that every child should be allowed to ride the subway or bus alone at 9. There are always exceptions. But, the base of what I was saying remains...the only way one gains maturity is by being given the opportunity to make decisions and live with the consequences. Maturity builds as more and more difficult decisions are made by the individual. Depending on the child's mental ability they might be given more or less freedom at younger or older ages. How early a parent begins that process has a lot to do with how well a child matures.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Morbid View Post
    I don't assume. I never said had a child, I said raising one. ;)
    And I guess that would still be assuming on your part as you and I have never conversed.

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    Enigmatic Motherfucker Morbid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TXChris View Post
    And I guess that would still be assuming on your part as you and I have never conversed.
    Again, I don't assume and I don't need to converse with you to know anything about you. You would be surprised at just how much I know about a lot of you. ;)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Morbid View Post
    Again, I don't assume and I don't need to converse with you to know anything about you. You would be surprised at just how much I know about a lot of you. ;)
    Fantastic! I figured I was right. Just needed you to confirm it...and you did. :D

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    Enigmatic Motherfucker Morbid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TXChris View Post
    Fantastic! I figured I was right. Just needed you to confirm it...and you did. :D

    Wow! You're a fucking genius!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Morbid View Post
    Wow! You're a fucking genius!
    :D

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    Quote Originally Posted by TXChris View Post
    Great point! And I do agree. However, I am not saying that every child should be allowed to ride the subway or bus alone at 9. There are always exceptions. But, the base of what I was saying remains...the only way one gains maturity is by being given the opportunity to make decisions and live with the consequences. Maturity builds as more and more difficult decisions are made by the individual. Depending on the child's mental ability they might be given more or less freedom at younger or older ages. How early a parent begins that process has a lot to do with how well a child matures.
    Hey, your Myspace says "proud parent." How old is your kid(s)?

    Anyway, your statement about calling CPS on people who don't allow this to happen is ridiculous. That is what I take issue with. I raise my kid as I see fit. Who knows her better than me? No one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kathy View Post
    Hey, your Myspace says "proud parent." How old is your kid(s)?

    Anyway, your statement about calling CPS on people who don't allow this to happen is ridiculous. That is what I take issue with. I raise my kid as I see fit. Who knows her better than me? No one.
    Um, yeah, it does. She is 11.

    My comment about calling CPS was in response to the people, in the article, who had threatened to call CPS on this lady...and anyone else that would call CPS on a person who did something similar.

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    Wadi Thooo Wannabe Lizard's Avatar
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    I'm approaching this post with some trepidation, because I don't want to step on tender toes but really am hoping for a little illumination. All things considered, I am quite new here, so please enter that into your calculations before you rip me a new one (and I am not claiming I do not, in the long run, need a new one ripped), but what are the primary issues when it comes to TXChris? I have read some (not all) of his posts and the replies to said posts, and what I have seen in my (admittedly incomplete) experience with his posts doesn't explain the degree of (what appears to be) hostility toward him. TXChris, are you just an asshole trying to cause trouble and sow dissension? Or, Regular Posters, is TXChris an idiot posing as a nonidiot? I'm not sure how I can convey that my question(s) is (are) asked in all earnestness, except to note that my presence on this site over the last couple of weeks has been pretty constant, suggesting that I would like my presence to continue while better understanding the history of the interactions of the other posters of this site.

    I sound like a fucking nutball, don't I? I can't decide if that's a good thing or a bad thing. *Sigh.* But earnest? Yeah, I am.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lizard View Post
    I'm approaching this post with some trepidation, because I don't want to step on tender toes but really am hoping for a little illumination. All things considered, I am quite new here, so please enter that into your calculations before you rip me a new one (and I am not claiming I do not, in the long run, need a new one ripped), but what are the primary issues when it comes to TXChris? I have read some (not all) of his posts and the replies to said posts, and what I have seen in my (admittedly incomplete) experience with his posts doesn't explain the degree of (what appears to be) hostility toward him. TXChris, are you just an asshole trying to cause trouble and sow dissension? Or, Regular Posters, is TXChris an idiot posing as a nonidiot? I'm not sure how I can convey that my question(s) is (are) asked in all earnestness, except to note that my presence on this site over the last couple of weeks has been pretty constant, suggesting that I would like my presence to continue while better understanding the history of the interactions of the other posters of this site.

    I sound like a fucking nutball, don't I? I can't decide if that's a good thing or a bad thing. *Sigh.* But earnest? Yeah, I am.

    Hi Lizard. I'm still pretty new here myself. And, no, you don't sound like a "fucking nutball" at all. :)

    In all honesty, the hostility I receive is merely a product of my beliefs being stringently different than a large majority of regulars on this site. That being said, most of those who disagree with me rarely take it to the name-calling extreme I am sure you have witnessed in previous threads. They effectively and maturely discuss the issues and leave personal barbs out of it.

    It's OK, really, as I don't mind debate and discussion about issues. After all, that's why I am here. Unfortunately, there is the occasional person who decides to go beyond the issues being debated and personally attack another. It's really a lack of maturity on their part, and I admit I have fallen into the same mode when retaliating. That being as it is I have recently decided to just ignore it from now on as it serves no useful purpose. It's just one person saying to another "My dick is bigger." I mean, really, what does that accomplish? :)

    I, personally, believe a lot of what is wrong with this country is that it has become a nanny state; that a group, which grows larger by the day, is all for entitlement and having the government do for them (which means my money pays for it). I was raised to accept responsibility for my actions; to take every opportunity that arises and do the best I can with it while, at the same time, being fully aware that I would have to live with the results of said decisions and expect nothing less. I'm tired of people blaming everyone else but themselves when unintended results come about from their decisions. I do not agree with a group of people telling me what to do and how to do it if the things I am doing do not hurt anyone else. I am a Classic Liberal in every sense of the word. On top of that I am also a Strict Constructionist in that I believe the Constitution of our very own United States of America is uniquely set up to handle any problems that may arise. These are two things that are not common among most of the others on this site...and, once again, that is OK. It allows for discussion. The problem we run into is that a person might get upset because they feel they know better than the rest of the population yet not enough people will agree with their ridiculous use of power to control the populace and take away liberties so they are not able to add amendments they would like to see. So, because they don't get what they want they refer to the Constitution as a waste of paper.

    I am constantly called a racist because I believe that, among other things, government's attempts at creating "equality" between races only increases the segregation and feelings of ill-will. I am called homophobic because I do not believe that those who commit "hate crimes" should be treated any differently than those who commit the same crimes but against people of their own gender preference/race. The problem with so-called "hate crime" laws is that they effectively diminish the degree of seriousness of crimes committed in the same way but that are not labeled hate crimes. Basically, they're telling the person of the same crime that they are not equal, in the eyes of the law, to the person who suffered the same crime but was labeled a "hate crime." In a country full of people that always talk of the lack of voice for the minority I enjoy, greatly, being the voice of the smallest minority...the individual. My belief is that the greater good is served best when the individual is left to do as he/she wishes as long as that does not interfere with his/her neighbor. My positions come from a true belief in every individual, as the greater good, and not a fabricated sense of the tyranny of the majority as the greater good.

    So, all that being as it is, I am sure you will probably hear from a couple of others as to the opposite of what I just said. As I stated, damn near everyone on this site is mature and able to have discussions on issues they do not agree on without reverting to personal barbs. They are quite an intelligent bunch. But, there is one or two that would rather it go sour. It is what it is. I have no hard feelings. It has just gotten to the point of ridiculousness that I refuse to engage in that anymore. I hope you can better understand my position now. And, thanks for asking. :)


    Edit: Oh, and I do, at times, generalize things which ends up getting me a harsh criticism or three. It is a fault of mine, as I usually feel that people understand where I am coming from by now. It's something I am working on. :D
    Last edited by TXChris; April 4th, 2008 at 02:10 AM.

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    Wadi Thooo Wannabe Lizard's Avatar
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    TXChris, thank you so much for a thoughtful reply to my post (which was genuinely meant). I know (hope?) others will weigh in on the issue(s) I've raised, and I do look forward to their responses. I'm still finding my sea legs here, and this kind of interaction is very helpful to me in figuring out where I "fit" here at the D'D. I do appreciate the diversity of opinion--and the intelligence--that is so obvious in D'D posts. I'm hoping that I'll eventually feel more comfortable in throwing my two cents in on issues beyond the depraved and doomed. (So, thanks again.)

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    Grand Count AnalBreeze's Avatar
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    I saw these people on the today show this morning.
    All I have to say is why take the chance? If you love your child, Why?
    My son is smart enough to light a match all by himself but I don't let him play with matches!
    I don't doubt the kid is smart enough to do it all by himself.
    What about all the bad guys we have on our front page?
    What about all the ones we don't have on our front page?
    The world is full of them! Fuck! I would be scared to ride the subway by myself!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lizard View Post
    TXChris, thank you so much for a thoughtful reply to my post (which was genuinely meant). I know (hope?) others will weigh in on the issue(s) I've raised, and I do look forward to their responses. I'm still finding my sea legs here, and this kind of interaction is very helpful to me in figuring out where I "fit" here at the D'D. I do appreciate the diversity of opinion--and the intelligence--that is so obvious in D'D posts. I'm hoping that I'll eventually feel more comfortable in throwing my two cents in on issues beyond the depraved and doomed. (So, thanks again.)
    I really appreciate you asking the question. :)

    That being said, don't be afraid to jump in with whatever your personal feelings and positions may be. Your post just might be the one that brings about a view or question nobody had considered.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Analßreeze ™ View Post
    I saw these people on the today show this morning.
    All I have to say is why take the chance? If you love your child, Why?
    My son is smart enough to light a match all by himself but I don't let him play with matches!
    I don't doubt the kid is smart enough to do it all by himself.
    What about all the bad guys we have on our front page?
    What about all the ones we don't have on our front page?
    The world is full of them! Fuck! I would be scared to ride the subway by myself!
    And that was exactly my point. We're so inundated with the nightly news about such depravity that we begin to believe it is likely to happen when, in reality, it is very unlikely to happen.

    I, personally, believe that parents these days, in general, are too over-protective of their children. It's not that these crimes occur more often. It is just that technology has made it easier to make it known when they do. Information is disseminated so much more widely and so much easier than it ever has been. And, as emotional creatures, we crave this kind of news. It tugs at our heart strings. It affects us on a deeper level. The truth is the news stations do their job just a bit too well.

    I am all for a parent raising their children in what they see is the most fitting way possible as long as that child is not being hurt. Allowing a child to take the subway or bus unaccompanied, however, is not a bad thing, and I take issue with someone that would turn this woman into CPS because of it. The problem is that people allow their emotions to override their intelligence and reasoning. But the fact that an individual gets emotional over a loving parent doing this should not be reason enough for the parent to lose their child.

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    Non-cooch slinger Rotten Apple's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lizard View Post
    I know (hope?) others will weigh in on the issue(s) I've raised, and I do look forward to their responses.

    My response? Sexual tension and misplaced loyalty.

    I absolutely disagree with his politics, but his manliness, love for UT Longhorns and him being from my "home" confuse me.

    It comes out in rage, fightin' words, and a strong desire to kick him in the nuts. :D

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kathy View Post
    My response? Sexual tension and misplaced loyalty.

    I absolutely disagree with his politics, but his manliness, love for UT Longhorns and him being from my "home" confuse me.

    It comes out in rage, fightin' words, and a strong desire to kick him in the nuts. :D

    Kick him in the nuts?? Hey I hear some guys like that a lot! :D

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    Quote Originally Posted by Analßreeze ™ View Post
    I saw these people on the today show this morning.
    All I have to say is why take the chance? If you love your child, Why?
    My son is smart enough to light a match all by himself but I don't let him play with matches!
    I don't doubt the kid is smart enough to do it all by himself.
    What about all the bad guys we have on our front page?
    What about all the ones we don't have on our front page?
    The world is full of them! Fuck! I would be scared to ride the subway by myself!


    I agree with you. 9 is not very old and what bothers me about this is that this mother was willing to take a chance with her 9 year olds safety to prove a point. Not good parenting in my books. Just because a child thinks they are old enough to do something does not mean that they are. What's next? He feels he can drive at 11 so she gives him the keys? At 12 he decides he wants to come home from school put his feet up and chug a few beers? At 13 he and his girlfriend decide they are ready to be parents so you buy him a double bed and a crib for his room?


    You have to use common sense when you parent and if you feel the need to prove a point to get your 15 minutes on TV risk your own safety not your childs!

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  45. #27
    Pickle Me Jaded Jaded's Avatar
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    Personally, I let my kids experience their freedoms in bits and pieces. By the age of 6, they were riding their bikes up and down the street where we lived. By the age of 9, I was allowing them to ride their bikes to a park about 5 blocks away from home. I don't feel that I am an overprotective mother...I feel that maturity comes with age. Now that they are teenagers they have limits but basically are free to come and go as they please. I don't feel that I have sheltered them and I don't feel that I have become paranoid by media hype. The media hype has made me a little wiser as it has done my children. I show them articles all the time about what can happen out there in the big, bad world. They are aware of the dangers and so far have proven to be very responsible and street smart. As far as public transportation is concerned...never after dark. Ever. I don't know about other cities, but in Portland, OR. the bus and MAX train stops are known to have all species of lurkers hanging around. At the bus stop and in the buses. That is not media hype...that is truth! I've experienced it on more than one occasion.
    I give my kids HUGE credit for their intelligence and common sense, but this statement threw me......

    No, I did not give him a cell phone. Didn’t want to lose it. And no, I didn’t trail him, like a mommy private eye. I trusted him to figure out that he should take the Lexington Avenue subway down, and the 34th Street crosstown bus home. If he couldn’t do that, I trusted him to ask a stranger. And then I even trusted that stranger not to think, “Gee, I was about to catch my train home, but now I think I’ll abduct this adorable child instead.”

    Sorry...I'm part of the Stranger Danger group. I don't want my kids to make a stranger aware that he/she is alone and lost. If the monsters had some sort of scarlet letter branded on their forehead, it would be different. I would want my children to call me, sit tight somewhere and wait for me to get there. There are way too many pervs that would take advantage of a 'lost' child.
    "Never make a decision when you need to pee."
    --Leonard Cohen (Beautiful Losers)

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  47. #28
    Grand Count Mom of 4's Avatar
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    That's the part that got me too Jaded. The fact that she was willing to risk her sons safety. Sure go ahead tell a stranger that you are lost at the age of 9 and maybe mention your mom didn't give you a cell phone because apparently you are not old enough or responsible enough to have a cell phone! Yessss what a great idea trust a city full of strangers with your 9 year old son but give him a quarter to call home if something bad happens. NICE

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  49. #29
    Pickle Me Jaded Jaded's Avatar
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    Exactly. Not old enough to carry a cell phone, but certainly old enough to ride the subway?
    And DAMN it is hard to find a working pay phone these days....
    "Never make a decision when you need to pee."
    --Leonard Cohen (Beautiful Losers)

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  51. #30
    Baron dop's Avatar
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    Not giving him a cellphone was a really retarded move just to prove a point, she seems more interested in that than the saftey of his kid... Jerk.

    Personally I was allowed to ride the bus witougth an adult at 10 but only when hanging with other kids, of course being a little asshole I keept braking that rule and going to places by myselve, wile nothing happend to me now I realise what a fucking dumb thing that was on my part...

    A lot of kids even younger than this one ride the buses by themselves here in Mexico and mostly nothing happens to them but of course every now and then it happens to some and thats where the "if it was your kid?" kicks in and rigthfuly so, its not about statistics its about the fact shit sometimes happens and you dont want it happening to your kid if its easy enuff to stop it..

    Wile I agree with Chris its way over the top for the peeps in the article to want to call social services on her(tho Id say its obious the bitch is more concerned on proving a point than the independence of her son) If I had a young child I wouldnt let him ride the bus and subway just for the fuck of it, there needs to be a real reason other than "independence"...

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