Emma Thompson 4 dead from abuse and had Genital Herpes

**Dakota Valkyrie** · July 29th, 2009, 12:04 PM

This is from Medscape (a site for medical professionals)

[...]However, it is important to note that ano-genital lesions that culture positive for HSV-1 in a child with a history of current or recent oral lesions may have been transmitted via auto-inoculation.Child Protective Services (CPS) may need to be informed that although the presence of the ano-genital herpes-1 lesions raises the concern of possible sexual abuse and an investigation needs to occur, it also is possible that the lesions were transmitted via auto-inoculation. Lesions that test positive for HSV-2 are not as likely to be transmitted via auto-inoculation. A positive culture for HSV-2 from an anogenital lesion raises a probable concern for sexual abuse (Adams, 2001). Heger, Emans, and Muram (2000) recommend that positive herpes cultures in children be subjected to confirmatory testing.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/527730

One thing that the original article does not say is what type of genital herpes the child had. The "cold sore" type CAN be manifested in the genitals via innocent transmission. Not as likely with the other type, but still can transmit without abuse.

**Dakota Valkyrie** · July 29th, 2009, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by thehesbomb

Did they share towels or something or was this purportedly transmitted during birth?

As far as I know, no one is sure. I've always assumed that it was during birth as she was very young when it happened. An investigation was done, but the baby remained in the home the whole time. Maybe it was the type I type - I don't even know that and am not going to ask after all this time LOL

**Thinkgoat** · July 29th, 2009, 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by thehesbomb

I don't know a single kid with genital herpes that was not molested. Do you? I would hazard a guess that very few (if any of us) do.

Well, I certainly do. And know them well.

Their mother had contracted herpes from a guy she dated for a short time. And she freaked because she had no idea. It's not something a lot of guys tell the girls they're screwing, even when asked...and she did. It wasn't until her first outbreak almost a year later, when she was just getting ready to marry her husband. And then through her pregnancies they took every precaution available to avoid the chance of her children contracting the virus. It didn't work.

Her children are loved and she's a fabulous parent. She's not gross, not abusive, would never treat her children in anyway other than how children should be treated...the same goes for her husband. But by God, by the standards set in this thread, I could call DCFS and those children should be yanked out of that house because they have an STD that surely must have come from sexual abuse because "none of us have ever heard" of any other reason.

**thehesbomb** · July 29th, 2009, 04:13 PM

But by God, by the standards set in this thread, I could call DCFS and those children should be yanked out of that house because they have an STD that surely must have come from sexual abuse because "none of us have ever heard" of any other reason.

Wow TG usually you're the last to completely twist and misconstrue stuff.

What I stated and still stand by is that this was a case that was referred to DCS as a neglect and abuse case. It should not have been closed because there was no evidence of sexual penetration and because a FOUR YEAR OLD "shook her head" when asked if she had been touched inappropriately. The least they could do would be to keep it open and offer parenting/monitoring/structured counseling for the kid.

And as the info below clearly details it is exceedingly rare. For even two people on this site to know a kid(s) with genital herpes is pretty amazing. So yeah, I pretty much stand by my opinion however unpopular it may be.

To put this in greater perspective, an estimated 20-25% of pregnant women have genital herpes, while less than 0.1% of babies contract an infection. "Neonatal herpes is a remarkably rare event", says Zane Brown, MD, an expert on neonatal herpes and a member of the Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology at the University of Washington. "Compared to all the other possible risks in a pregnancy, the risk of neonatal herpes is extremely small."

http://www.herpes.com/pregnancy.shtml

**biteme** · July 29th, 2009, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by Thinkgoat

Well, I certainly do. And know them well.

Their mother had contracted herpes from a guy she dated for a short time. And she freaked because she had no idea. It's not something a lot of guys tell the girls they're screwing, even when asked...and she did. It wasn't until her first outbreak almost a year later, when she was just getting ready to marry her husband. And then through her pregnancies they took every precaution available to avoid the chance of her children contracting the virus. It didn't work.

Her children are loved and she's a fabulous parent. She's not gross, not abusive, would never treat her children in anyway other than how children should be treated...the same goes for her husband. But by God, by the standards set in this thread, I could call DCFS and those children should be yanked out of that house because they have an STD that surely must have come from sexual abuse because "none of us have ever heard" of any other reason.

what's any of that have to do with this story?

**scorpiogirl** · July 29th, 2009, 04:28 PM

what's any of that have to do with this story?

nothing, those kids are still alive.

**nurseronda** · July 29th, 2009, 04:36 PM

Originally Posted by biteme

what's any of that have to do with this story?

TG is just explaining that there are other ways than just SEX that this disease is passed. I know one woman who gave her child up for adoption because the baby had a chance to get this disease then found out later that she really didn't have this disease. This story is incomplete, there are too many unanswered questions in this story, like who did the beating? Does her mother have this disease? Why if she is a nurse, why didn't she find out this child had this disease long before this happened?

**Thinkgoat** · July 29th, 2009, 04:37 PM

I certainly didn't twist anything. I was addressing a direct quote, the same quote that opened the door for me to state it does and HAS happened.

Don't come out swinging your PPC bat at me because you opened the door exposing your myopic reasoning.

**Dakota Valkyrie** · July 29th, 2009, 04:45 PM

Originally Posted by thehesbomb

And as the info below clearly details it is exceedingly rare. For even two people on this site to know a kid(s) with genital herpes is pretty amazing. So yeah, I pretty much stand by my opinion however unpopular it may be.

The herepes statistic you adress is the 0.1% of babies who get type 2 from birth. it does not address type 1 (the cold sore type) that can come from sex OR from innocent touch by a caregiver or even the child him/herself.

From the same site you linked to:

It is estimated that 80% of the population have been exposed to the herpes simplex virus, HSV-1.

and

There are two herpes simplex viruses:
• Herpes Simplex Type 1 (HSV-1)
• Herpes Simplex Type 2 (HSV-2)
These viruses look identical under the microscope, and either type can infect the mouth or genitals.

and

It is possible to get genital herpes from cold sores.

and

Prevent self-infection to other areas of your body.

and

Many people infected with HSV are not aware of their infection.

A wealth of info on that site.

**Dakota Valkyrie** · July 29th, 2009, 04:48 PM

I am not saying the baby did NOT get the herpes from abuse, just that there is enough credible information that it could have occurred innocently... and notheing that ANYONE was saying pointed elsewhere. We can't go snatching kids from parents without something more credible than a gut feeling.

**penelopejo** · July 29th, 2009, 04:48 PM

I'm sorry, but do you expect them to poke and prod at the child till she confessed something? Isn't that the same as someone telling the child not to tell about sex abuse?

**AngelFire** · July 29th, 2009, 04:52 PM

But what I don't get is why has no one been arrested? She had a skull fracture, and bruising...why aren't they arrested?

**nurseronda** · July 29th, 2009, 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by Mybabiesmomma

But what I don't get is why has no one been arrested? She had a skull fracture, and bruising...why aren't they arrested?

One or two will be in the near future.

**thehesbomb** · July 29th, 2009, 04:56 PM

I know DV, I was addressing both you and TG knowing kids that had been exposed and contracted herpes simplex in utero.

And TG I'm not sure what a PPC bat is but I would also point out that this kid is DEAD now due to being battered to death. So I think that any of us would be hard-pressed to misconstrue her risk profile.

I don't know a single kid with genital herpes that was not molested. Do you? I would hazard a guess that very few (if any of us) do.

I don't even see any reasoning in that statement, much less myopic reasoning.

**thehesbomb** · July 29th, 2009, 04:59 PM

I'm sorry, but do you expect them to poke and prod at the child till she confessed something? Isn't that the same as someone telling the child not to tell about sex abuse?

Sigh...yes PJ that is what I want them to do. I want them to convince the little girl that she was involved in ritualistic satanic abuse so her innocent parents can fry.

No actually, what I would think they would do and what they have done with kids that I've fostered in similar situations is to get parental consent to interview them (in my state it's called a structured therapeutic interview, but it varies).

This allows for the child to be interviewed without the abuser (or cohort) present.

**nurseronda** · July 29th, 2009, 05:04 PM

Originally Posted by penelopejo

I'm sorry, but do you expect them to poke and prod at the child till she confessed something? Isn't that the same as someone telling the child not to tell about sex abuse?

85% of all kids that are molested will never tell, even when asked. They are afraid of telling the truth because of the thought of what the molester told them to keep them quiet or just the thought of the punishment that they are afraid that will happen if they do tell. The article says sexually abused at the top. It makes me wonder if her doctor knew what he was looking for, some don't.

**penelopejo** · July 29th, 2009, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by thehesbomb

Sigh...yes PJ that is what I want them to do. I want them to convince the little girl that she was involved in ritualistic satanic abuse so her innocent parents can fry.

No actually, what I would think they would do and what they have done with kids that I've fostered in similar situations is to get parental consent to interview them (in my state it's called a structured therapeutic interview, but it varies).

This allows for the child to be interviewed without the abuser (or cohort) present.

That's what they do in Texas.

http://www.dfps.state.tx.us/child_pr...arentguide.asp

They can interview them at whatever time they want to, even at school, but it is always recorded. And the parents aren't in the room. If they are, they are on the other side of a 2 way mirror so they can hear what is going on too and with law enforcement officials there. If they have to do it differently in your state, then so be it. But I'm pretty sure they took her aside and asked, without her parents there, if she had ever been touched inappropriately.

**Dakota Valkyrie** · July 29th, 2009, 05:08 PM

Originally Posted by nurseronda

The article says sexually abused at the top. It makes me wonder if her doctor knew what he was looking for, some don't.

I can see that point. But the child then went to the hospital for a more thorough exam. If BOTH sets of professionals missed it, I would not be getting my medical care in that area.

**Nell** · July 29th, 2009, 05:09 PM

Originally Posted by scorpiogirl

The bottom line here is that this little baby is DEAD. CPS had the opportunity to investigate her life, 2 FUCKING WEEKS AGO, and from what I can tell they did not.

How many kids get killed when sexual abuse is about to be exposed?

Oh yeah and whats that bullshit story Mom told Dad about it being childhood herpes turned into genital herpes? Tell me that bitch with all her medical knowledge didn't fucking know something? She probably beat the poor baby to death because she was jelouse that her boyfriend liked her more.

You dont get a severed pancreas, a skull fracture and bruising from a toilet seat folks, unless someone beats you with it.

Lets all get into a big discussion about who knows more about what and forget that a little girl is DEAD! She didn't die from the herpes!!

What I want to know now is who the fuck is going to die for killing that baby?

Got my head wrapped around this shit now and I'm pissed!!

You should be proud your thread started a good discussion, instead of just 3 posts that all said "poor baby. fucker that did this should die" in different ways.

**scorpiogirl** · July 29th, 2009, 05:46 PM

Sorry, I just get pissed when a child gets killed, and this time I let ya'll know it. So fucking senseless!!! Poor Baby.

**petrina** · July 29th, 2009, 06:10 PM

part of me wants to weigh in on the herpes discussion, and part of me thinks it was all said already.

i understand that it is frustrating to think that the child's herpes may have been sexually transmitted and it was not reported.

but it wasn't

the only people who can report that are medical professionals. and the criteria are not just having herpes, but having a medical exam that shows other signs of sexual abuse. not any abuse, but sexual abuse.

unfortunately, either the signs were not there or they were missed. so either she was not abused, or the signs were missed. if they were missed, that sucks. but that is not the fault of the parents or of CPS. they have to rely on the reports from the medical professionals.

and the only people who can ask for a second opinion are those who have guardianship over the child. and yes, that could very well be the abuser. and yes, that sucks.

it fucking sucks.

but it is what it is. and whether you wish it wasnt, or are glad that kids are not taken away for having stds that were not caused by abuse, it is what it is.

personal note: friend who is a teacher: has a kid in her first grade class who has genital warts and who likes to spend freetime in his underpants. there is a very good chance that he can spread his warts to the other kids in his class. but imagine if all those kids DID get warts and were taken away from their parents or even investigated. that would suck. in this case, i am glad that there has to be another reason to take kids away. and in his case, he was adopted at age 3 and there is no telling what happened to him prior, so unless there is another reason why the MD suspects ongoing abuse with his adopted fam, he will not be reported either. which i think is good bc i know that fam, and that kid, and he has enough problems.

i am so sorry for what happened to the child in this story.

**Morgana** · July 29th, 2009, 06:40 PM

The exams don't tell us anything... Was the hymen not ruptured, therefore there is "no" evidence of sexual abuse? My first thought from knowledge of others receiving herpes against their will was from being given oral sex from someone who has herpes, cold sores, etc. There would be no bruising and the hymen would be in tact showing no obvious evidence.

Any 4 year old with fever and multiple blisters, break out, and then identified as herpes would be only like a 5 alarm fire!!!! What happened when the mother received that information, how did she react? Herpes is forever and I would be like a bitch from hell trying to figure out how my daughter caugtht herpes for every obvious and not so obvious reasons as well as just being a clean person...where the fuck is herpes just laying around at?!

Secondly and separately, is it coincidental that she is dead shortly thereafter the diagnosis...or maybe fear of the truth coming out, she was killed.

And finally, of course the mother has a boyfried with a current charge of child abuse, another coincidence? This shit stinks! Poor little girl. I have a 4 year old and I know how protective I am of her washing her hands, etc. If this lady, a nurse, isn't trying to turn heaven and hell to find out the truth, then we know what's really up!

**cubby** · July 29th, 2009, 07:00 PM

How could the mother. a nurse, not know something was wrong with the baby's bottom. I know when my sons were that young I was very well acquainted with what was going on under their diapers and training pants, whether I really wanted to be or not. Was there not some sign that she had something?

My only experience with herpes is the cold sore kind and those SOBs hurt, itch and burn. That baby was in pain and mama had no clue? I don't doubt she knew pretty close what was wrong.

**nurseronda** · July 29th, 2009, 07:24 PM

Originally Posted by Morgana

The exams don't tell us anything... Was the hymen not ruptured, therefore there is "no" evidence of sexual abuse? My first thought from knowledge of others receiving herpes against their will was from being given oral sex from someone who has herpes, cold sores, etc. There would be no bruising and the hymen would be in tact showing no obvious evidence.

Unless "he" was raping her using her anus.

**Rockin Ma** · July 29th, 2009, 07:26 PM

I have known of a couple babies to die shortly after birth due to a mom having herpes.

Any baby surviving is very lucky. From what I have picked up on herpes, passing it to a baby will most likely be devastating.

Remember the thread about the baby who died from mom's kiss?

http://www.dreamindemon.com/forums/s...ghlight=Herpes

But I guess this isn't the point. A little child is dead again, due to abuse.

**Crazy_n_NC** · July 29th, 2009, 07:41 PM

My friend got herpes in her eye and almost lost her vison permenantly.... She has HSV-2and only had 1 break out 1 time in 10 yrs and it was in her fucken eye!! Herpes is crazy shit. I have had to talk to preggers women when I was anurse in a Dr's office about discloseing certain embaressing things just so that their children can be treated properly. You cant even Imagine the number of people with Herpes and HPV ( genital Wart) and their partners (some married) have no clue! And like Rockin said it can and is deadly and they will spill the beans when they hear that. Its most dangerous in newborns. Some women have C-sections because of the risk.
This little girl had blisters on her fingers, which could have came from her mouth and then scratched her genitals with open blisters on her finger and voila Herpes on her cootch!

But I still think its hinky....

**theskyisfalling** · July 29th, 2009, 08:48 PM

No updates?

**scorpiogirl** · July 29th, 2009, 08:58 PM

HOUSTON - A 4-year old whose body was covered in injuries is dead.

Child protective services first learned of Emma Thompson last month after the 4-year old was diagnosed with a sexually transmitted disease.

Blisters in the little girl’s mouth, hands and genitals turned out to be herpes simplex two.

Less than 3 weeks later, the little girl was dead with extensive injuries. She had a skull fracture, internal bleeding, lacerated pancreas and there was evidence she was sexually assaulted.

CPS says it did not take custody of the 4-year-old because genital herpes can also be spread through non-sexual contact and an early examination of the little girl did not reveal physical evidence of sexual abuse.

The girl's mother, Abigail Young, is a registered nurse.

Estella Olguin with CPS says young initially told CPS no man had access to her three daughters. Young is going through a divorce and lives separate from her husband.

Olguin says CPS has since learned the little girl's mother's boyfriend Lucas Coe was living with the family. Coe has a long history with CPS and was previously charged with injury to a child. Coe lost custody of his children a few years back.

No one has been charged in the 4-year-old's death. CPS now has custody of Young's two older daughters, ages 6 and 11.

http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/news...use_child_dies

**Rockin Ma** · July 29th, 2009, 09:16 PM

RhapsodyDen wrote:
This whole situation is totally jacked up. The dad was fighting for custody of all of the girls because he felt the mom was unstable and wasn't responsible enough or engaged enough to handle raising the girls. "Gifted Nurse?!?!" Now there's a joke. Lying, Cheating, street walking hussy. She cheated on her husband with the abuser, let that monster into her house to pick off the smallest of the 3 girls and then covered up his heinous crime by making up some BS stories. There's a special place prepared from both of them.============================== The dad had been fighting the system from the very beginning. The judge who gave custody of the girls to the mother is just as culpable. So to MLBALLFAN blaming the dad, he was the only parent in this tragedy who had the girls best interest at heart and was trying to give them all a stable life.================ CPS: with the new laws in effect, they are hobbled to the point of being ineffective. There has to be some signs of abuse and unfortunately in this case the herpes infection wasn't enough (why, I don't know). If there aren't any signs of physical abuse and neither the mother, child or a witness makes a complaint they're hands are tied. Fortunately someone at the child's school caught on and complained (kudos to the daycare center that was alert enough and file the complaint). Otherwise there would not be a history trail to follow.=========== Sorry for the rant, but the blame rest with the lying cheating mother, the judge who ignored the father's plea and the sick son of unmarried parents that was abusing the child and ultimately killed her to cover up his actions.

http://www.chron.com/disp/discuss.mp...1978.html?p=14