Did Canadian honor killing end in death of 4 women?

[Whisper]

KINGSTON, Ont. - In the mano-a-mano contest which lies at the heart of any cross-examination, Mohammad Shafia has had his butt handed to him by a girl prosecutor.

The 58-year-old Afghan patriarch accused of murder in the deaths of almost half his family finished testifying in his own defence Friday.

But while Shafia continued to deny killing his three daughters and barren first wife, he was nonetheless painted into numerous corners by assistant Crown attorney Laurie Lacelle, who used Shafia's own words as her chief weapon.

He, his 41-year-old second wife Tooba Mohammad Yahya, and their eldest son Hamed, now 20, are all pleading not guilty to four counts of first-degree murder in the deaths of the four.
[...]
A key admission came when Lacelle, using Shafia's conversations on Kingston Police wiretaps, quoted him telling Hamed on the day of their arrest that July that ``we haven't done anything wrong. They (the dead women) did it themselves.''

``Indeed,'' Shafia replied.

``You believe their actions brought about their rightful deaths?'' Lacelle asked.

``Yes,'' Shafia said.

He went on to say that the girls' lies to him and secrets they kept from him - the eldest had run away from home and Sahar had a boyfriend - amounted to a betrayal.

``You believed your daughters deserved to die for their treachery?'' Lacelle asked.

``That's up to God,'' Shafia snapped. ``What they did, for us (the family) they were not deserving.''

``Their treachery brought dishonour to you and your family?'' she persisted.

``We believe in that,'' Shafia agreed.

Again throwing his words back at him, Lacelle asked, ``You had a choice - to accept what they did, or kill them?''

``Not,'' said Shafia.

``And you chose to kill them?''

``I never do some things to my children,'' he said, ``and I love them more than my own body.''

At another point, after Lacelle again accused Shafia of killing the four, he said, ``Dear respected lady, we never give ourselves the permission to do that. Our Qur'an does not allow ourselves to do that . . .

``How could someone do that?'' he asked.

``You might do it if you thought they were whores,'' the prosecutor smoothly replied, a reference to Shafia's repeated cursing of his dead daughters as ``filth'' and ``whores'' on the wiretaps.

``Respected lady,'' he said, ``that was only Zainab, and Sahar, that later I learned. The others were innocents. It's impossible.''

As his words on the wiretaps had revealed him as an unforgiving man, so did his words in testimony show him as a ruthless father who at the least was gloating at the fate meted out to his disobedient family.

In another skilful exchange, Lacelle took Shafia through the chats he, Yahya and Hamed had in their minivan the day police took them to the ``accident scene'' just outside this eastern Ontario city.


Though the trio clearly believed they were speaking privately, detectives had planted a bug in the van, and then pretended to have spotted a small camera at the water's edge - it was a ruse - where the Nissan had gone into the canal.

First, the prosecutor got Shafia to agree that he and Yahya were at that moment grieving parents, Hamed a grieving brother.

``You must have been relieved to hear police had located a camera?'' she asked.

``Yes,'' said Shafia. ``I got relaxed.''

``You wanted them to get as much evidence as possible?'' Lacelle asked.

``Yes,'' he replied.

``So why do your private conversations that day show you were anything but happy?'' she asked cheerfully.

Shafia asked for the question to be repeated by the translators.

``The conversations do not show you were happy police had found a camera,'' Lacelle said.

``I was happy at everything they found,'' Shafia insisted.

In fact, the wiretaps show the trio were in full panic - and markedly lacking in anything remotely resembling grief.

Yahya at one point said, ``There was no camera over there. I looked around, there wasn't any. If, God forbid, God forbid, there was one in that little house, all three of us would have come, no?'' And Shafia reassured her by saying, ``That night, there was no electricity there, everywhere was pitch darkness, you remember Tooba?''

Shafia agreed the conversation had happened, but insisted that ``I said it would be good.''

He said nothing of the sort, as Lacelle pointed out to him.

``Hamed says, `They said they want to see if the camera has recorded anything or not. They said there's a camera near the water.' You say, `They're lying. If there was a camera, they'd access it in a minute.'

``That's an expression of happiness that they found a camera?'' Lacelle asked mildly.

``This is what I meant,'' Shafia said. ``It would be good.''

It was a remarkably deft cross-examination of a witness alternately condescending and sly, who hid behind the complications of language and translation, and who could - and did - make himself weep.

When, for instance, Lacelle was reading his own words, post-arrest, back to him - he was then hectoring a worried Hamed about the importance of ``honour'' - Shafia agreed that he linked his honour with his daughters' rebellious behaviour.

``I said that, yes,'' he said, then launched into one of his not infrequent soliloquies.

During it, he said that while ``my honour is important to me, to kill someone, you can't regain your reputation and honour (that way). Dear lady, you should know that . . .'' and then added, ``I would never even think this way, to go and kill my children. I'm a Muslim, yes, but I'm not a killer and I don't kill.''

He was crying when he finished. It is too much to expect he was aware of the score - dear respected lady 1, Afghan man, 0.

Read more: http://www.canada.com/Blatchford+Pro...#ixzz1gBOCexy0

[Whisper]

Shafia trial reflects badly on community, GTA Muslims say 0
http://www.torontosun.com/2011/12/09...ta-muslims-say

[Tundratot]

@VXIII Never fear, the place and the culture where the Arabian Nights took place was very different. It would be as foreign to the modern day Arabs as Renaissance England would be to us.

Of course, the basic story had it that Scheherazade told those stories to keep from being killed the next morning. She'd stop telling the story in the middle and tell the rest the next night. The king wouldn't kill her until he heard the rest of the story. Of course, she'd begin a new story and stop in the middle, again. So, even then a woman's life was very cheap.

[Whisper]

Mallick: Happy family masquerade

You wouldn’t think Tooba Mohammad Yahya, a 41-year-old Afghan mother of seven, and Dottie Sandusky, a 68-year-old Pennsylvania mother of six, have a lot in common. But truly they are sisters under the skin.

Yahya is on trial in Kingston, co-accused with her glowering husband Mohammad Shafia of first-degree murder after their three young daughters and the husband’s first wife were found dead in the Rideau Canal. The dead were extremely beautiful girls and women hoping to build a new, free life in Canada. Their father is a tyrant and a brute.

Dottie is married to Jerry Sandusky, a famous Penn State University football coach accused of a lifetime of raping young boys. He is out on bail again after a second wave of sexual abuse charges. Two more young men now say he molested them, sometimes in his own home while Dottie was there.

One boy, kept and fed in a basement bedroom, told a grand jury he screamed for help because he knew Dottie was upstairs. “But no one ever came to help,” the grand jury report says.

Dottie and Jerry couldn’t have children of their own. So they adopted six. As Jerry Sandusky says in his oddly titled autobiography, Touched, Dottie oversaw a house filled to the brim with children, their friends, and kids from the children’s charity he set up.

“We don’t know why anyone would make such a terrible accusation which is absolutely untrue,” Dottie said Thursday. “Our children, our extended family and friends know how much Jerry and I love kids.”

Dottie has not been charged with anything. Equally, Yahya is innocent until proven guilty.

Aren’t they nice though, these two? They created families for moneyed, strutting men who ran the show. Without income of their own and a status derived only from wife-and-motherhood, they relied entirely on their husbands. Yahya was handy at giving birth, Dottie was handy as the maternal figure who made it plausible for a man to spend every hour of the day within a few feet of young boys eating, sleeping, playing, “showering and horsing around,” as Sandusky put it in a sinister phone interview recently.

A wife is like a coat of white paint. She covers up a multitude of sins.

I have looked with disgust at men who tortured and killed their young captives, men like Paul Bernardo and Fred West. But I have looked with amazement at their female partners, Karla Homolka and Rosemary West, who were helpmeets and later claimed to be victims, too. There is never any shortage of them.

Mothers are often passive partners in the abuse that goes on in their home, the abuse that seems obvious post-arrest but was previously unthinkable because there was a loving mother in the house.

Audrey Ricker, author of The Ultimate Betrayal: The Enabling Mother, Incest and Sexual Abuse, has treated victims of sexual abuse for decades. She sees a consistent pattern — obviously there are exceptions — among the mothers in incest cases. They refuse to interfere (often pretending to be asleep when Dad leaves the bedroom or the house), defend the father and continue to pretend the family is flawless, imply the victim “asked for it,” and deny the maternal love that would offer the victim an emotional refuge.

For defending the child would mean upsetting the family apple cart. The mother would need a divorce, a new home, a job. Manless, she would be poor and shunned. How sad that would be for women like Dottie and Tooba.

I still don’t understand why the Shafia case is being prosecuted as an “honour killing.” It should be called a “shame killing.”

[...]
It isn’t always entirely a man’s “shame” that inspires such hideous acts. A woman’s fear of disgrace fuels them, too.

Look at the faces of Tooba and Dottie, mothers to so many little children but who were mysteriously not present at crucial moments. The sound of a slap. A thin cry from a distant room. But who’s to hear?

http://www.thestar.com/article/11000...ily-masquerade

[Tundratot]

If that accusation is true about Dottie Sandusky ignoring a child locked up the basement, I'm all for hanging her out to dry. Heinous bitch.

[Whisper]

Just my opinion but I have always kind of thought they probobly were drowned in the bathtubs at the motel then moved to the car, driven to canal and pushed in, wouldnt bruises on neck and shoulders and head be kind of what your injuries would be? (Sahar was so distraught and mentally beaten down, she may not have cared anymore and just accepted it and didnt try to struggle

I know we over think things along the lines of CSI and its just a show,but with them drowning they would have water in the lungs I want to know why its not been mentioned if that water was tested and if so was it chlorinated or outdoor water??
With them not moving after car hit water if they were already dead then water in lungs would be chlorinated,they wouldnt breathe in again so would be that water
If just knocked out then it would be lake/creek water and then they would have to see what knocked them out to the point cold water didnt awake even one if them

[VXIII]

I have been thinking about that also, the water from the tub would be different from the water in the locks and havent they tested their lungs? I dont remember reading anything about it being tested. I know a lot of times evidence is supressed too which doesnt give a jury a full view of what happened, Id want to know everything so its possible they have this info and just arent letting it out yet.

[Whisper]

I have been thinking about that also, the water from the tub would be different from the water in the locks and havent they tested their lungs? I dont remember reading anything about it being tested. I know a lot of times evidence is supressed too which doesnt give a jury a full view of what happened, Id want to know everything so its possible they have this info and just arent letting it out yet.

I havent seen anyplace either where its been tested and there has to be a test for that
I know theres really no CSI but that to me would be a basic test
Hopefully they are holding that out for the ending but to me it just seems like it would be such a simple thing to eliminate or justify
I over think and analyze shit to much though sometimes
My old boss I had for years and years used to laugh and tell me that I over think things and am to smart for my own good sometimes and it would one day get me into trouble
I was like 23 years old and he was right its gotten me into shit over the years just analyzing things and thinking to much on one thing

[VXIII]

I know exactly what you mean, I do the same thing...

[Whisper]

Shafia sibling testifying in parents' murder trial

The trial of a Montreal family accused of killing four other family members continues today in Kingston, with a sibling of the three girls who were found dead testifying as a defence witness.
CTV's Genevieve Beauchemin, who is at the Kingston courthouse to report on the trial, explains there's a publication ban on the identity of the sibling.
"But what I can tell you is that it was the first time, when he walked into the courtroom, that he saw Mohammad Shafia, Tooba and Hamed, and it was quite an emotional moment," she told CTV News Channel Monday morning.
The jury were asked to watched a videotaped interview that police conducted with the sibling before his parents and brother were arrested in July 2009. In the taped interview, the sibling conceded that his father had hit them a few times, but was adamant that his family couldn't have possibly committed murder.
He tells the officer there is no way his family would have murdered his sisters and his father's first wife because killing someone is "sick." Besides, he says, he is the one who argued the most with his parents.
"So why not me?" he says. "That's the second thing which gets it off my mind."
[...]
While testifying Friday, Shafia conceded that his honour was important to him but would not be enough to compel him to kill.
"But you can't regain your honour with murder -- respected lady, you must know that," he told prosecutor Laurie Lacelle .
Shafia said the Qur'an does not give permission to kill people, so he and his family would therefore not have given themselves permission to do that.
"Never, respected lady, we never allow ourselves to do that," Shafia said in Dari through a court translator.
"Tooba is a mom… How is it possible that someone will do that to his or her children?"
Lacelle suggested Shafia might do so if he thought his daughters were "whores," a term he was heard using on a wiretap recording in reference to his dead children.
In response, Shafia said that term referred only to two of his daughters. The other two victims were innocent, he said.
"Nothing can cause this, that a person…do such a terrible and heinous thing," Shafia said. "It's impossible."
It's unclear whether Tooba Yahya or Hamed Shafia will testify. Beauchemin notes that each of the accused has his or her own defence lawyers. None chose to make opening statements to delineate how they will mount their defence.

http://montreal.ctv.ca/servlet/an/lo...b=MontrealHome


Brother of Shafia girls refused to believe parents were killers

KINGSTON, Ont. – A brother of three Montreal teenagers found dead in a submerged car in 2009 told investigators he refused to believe his parents had murdered the girls and his aunt, the 52-year-old woman who was actually his father’s first wife, the jury at the Shafia murder trial heard Monday.

“I used to do the most (bad) stuff, so why not me?” the young man wonders in an interview with a Kingston police officer that was videotaped July 21, 2009.
[...]
The video was played in court Monday morning after the young man was called to testify as a defence witness. He wrote frequently on a written transcript of the interview while the tape was played for jurors. He was not asked any questions. A court order bars publication of his name.
[...]
The brother of the victims told police, in the July 21 interview, that the children had called police in April 2009 because they feared their father. Jurors already have heard that Montreal police were called to the Shafia home in St. Léonard on April 17, 2009, and were told that several of the children complained of abuse by their father and older brother.
He had given us some slaps,” the young man told a Kingston police officer in the videotaped interview.
The man said, on the tape, that he was slapped three or four times and two of his sisters were slapped.
He told the Kingston officer his father slapped him when he tried to intervene in the attacks on his sisters.
“I said, ‘You can’t touch us like that,’ ” he stated on the tape.
The boy said his father swore at him and told him to shut up.
His father was angry, he said, because the children had returned home at 9 p.m.
The young man also told the officer that he fell asleep in the vehicle on the evening of June 29, 2009, as the family drove home to Montreal from Niagara Falls. He said he was shaken awake by his father at 1:53 a.m. (he had checked the time), and got out of the vehicle and went into a motel room, where he immediately fell asleep.
When he awoke the next morning, he was told that four family members and the family’s other vehicle were missing.

http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/...#ixzz1gNCYuvsD

[Whisper]

Nothing in this trial is funny but everytime I read her name Yahya I think of that old man Jimmy Kimmel has on with Guirmo(sp)
Yahya joined him just before Uncle Frank died

[ineedanap]

Shouldn't this be in the foreign crime thread???

[Whisper]

Shouldn't this be in the foreign crime thread???

No Canada and States both go under Reality Bites,the rest are foreign crimes

[VXIII]

Every evening I come looking for the update on this thread...

[Whisper]

just a noon hour update

Shafia prosecutor questions sibling's explanation

The son of a Montreal couple accused of killing their three daughters faced withering cross-examination on Tuesday in a Kingston, Ont., court by the Crown prosecutor, who suggested the young man was attempting to cover up for his parents’ actions.
The name of the son cannot be released due to a publication ban. [...]
The prosecutor referred to wiretap evidence made by police the night before the family members were arrested, in which the young man asked his brother, “Shall I kill myself? You are 100 per cent caught.”
Ten days before the deaths, someone used the Shafia family computer to search "where to commit a murder."
On Monday, the young man testified that he was suicidal and may have mistakenly keyed in the search terms. "I think I wasn't familiar with the term suicide or suicidal, so I kind of thought murder meant the same thing," he said.
On Tuesday, the prosecutor asked, “Why didn’t you say, ‘Where to kill myself?’ instead of ‘Where to commit murder?’”
The brother had no answer, the CBC’s Dan Halton reported from the courthouse.
[...]
Jury hears interrogation video
On Monday, the jury trial watched a police interrogation video of the son who was called to testify. The video was recorded the night Shafia and his wife were arrested.
The son is asked whether there is trouble at home and he acknowledges arguments, describing one occasion where he was slapped repeatedly by Hamed and his father.
But in his testimony on Monday, he painted a somewhat different picture.
"Rona was basically like a second mother to all of us," he said of his father's first wife. He said she was very happy in the home, though court has heard from witnesses that she was afraid Shafia would kill her, and was constantly being humiliated by Yahya in front of the children and guests.
Sahar, too, was "very happy at home," he said, "happy, joyful, enjoying life."
Previously the court has heard from various teachers, vice-principals, police officers, social workers and youth protection workers, who testified about various tales the girls told them of verbal, emotional and physical abuse and their desperation to escape the home.
Sahar told some of those people she was afraid of her father and that Hamed pressured her to wear a hijab. The court heard she had essentially been shunned at home for eight months and was so upset that she tried to kill herself.
Those were all lies, the brother testified. The Shafia siblings, Sahar in particular, he said, would make up stories to elicit sympathy from their teachers so they could get away with skipping classes and obtaining poor marks.
Crown's cross-examination could be tough
Mohammad Shafia testified in his own defence last week and faced tough questions from Crown prosecutor Laurie Lacelle during cross-examination. Shafia told the court he values honour, but that there is no honour in killing.
Expert witnesses testified earlier in the trial that in some cultures, when family honour is threatened, it is acceptable that a male family member could kill a relative.
It's unclear whether Yahya or Hamed Shafia will be called by the defence to testify, according to the CBC's Daniel Halton.
The three accused each has a defence lawyer.

http://news.ca.msn.com/canada/shafia...gs-explanation

[Tundratot]

They're all so busy throwing up dust to blind the jury. I wonder if they're having any success.

[Pete Bondurant]

This is in Canada. These people, if they are convicted, will spend very little time in prison anyway. They might as well just plead guilty. They will probably be provided with new identities and a severance package upon release.

[Whisper]

This is in Canada. These people, if they are convicted, will spend very little time in prison anyway. They might as well just plead guilty. They will probably be provided with new identities and a severance package upon release.

Actually I was talking with one of my closest friends here and shes a lawyer and her hubbys a judge here in the city
These guys arent getting off,
its pretty well known in public and private sectors they are guilty
they will do everyday of the max sentence here and thats only 25 years not nearly enough
But day they are released they will be driven directly to waiting plane to deport them back to Afghanistan
We need DP here badly,
we need these fuckers that come here and pull their shit to be sentenced to laws from their country
They need to be buried up to their waists and stoned to death for costing the country all the money spent on this case
With him being a millionaire they will sue and get back all the money from his estate his children left here will be deported soon as the trials done b/c thankfully NONE of them became citizens here

[Whisper]

Shafia son knew sisters' deaths were 'an accident,' murder trial told

KINGSTON, Ont. – The teenage boy whose three sisters were found dead in a submerged car in 2009 knew immediately their deaths were accidental, although he knew nothing about the police investigation, he told jurors at the Shafia murder trial on Tuesday.
I knew for a fact it was an accident,” the youth, now 18, testified during cross examination by crown prosecutor Gerard Laarhuis.
[....]
Prosecutors allege the deaths were an honour killing, arranged by Mohammad Shafia because he felt his daughters had shamed him by taking boyfriends, dressing in revealing clothes and disobeying him. Rona Mohammad reportedly wanted a divorce.
The accused, all residents of St. Léonard, have said they believe their rebellious daughter Zainab took the family car on a joyride without permission and crashed it into the canal. She did not have a driver’s licence.
A court order protects the name of the youth who testified Tuesday. He was called as a defence witness in the murder trial of his parents and his older brother. The Crown began questioning him Tuesday morning.
The witness testified he told police everything he knew because he wanted to help them explain the deaths. Laarhuis noted that in a conversation with the youth’s brother the morning before the arrests, the boy did not suggest anyone else could be responsible for the deaths. The conversation was secretly recorded by police.
“I don’t think anyone else is responsible for what happened to my sisters,” the boy responded. “It was an accident.”
He said he knew his parents would not do such a thing and he could not “think of anyone else who would.”
The youth said his sister Zainab secretly drove one of the family’s cars in Niagara Falls, Ont., while they were on vacation there in June 2009. He said she told him she was caught by her father.
Laarhius asked what punishment was meted out for this breach of family rules.
The youth said he didn’t know, although he has testified that he was very close to Zainab and they shared secrets.
All she told me was that Dad caught her,” he testified.
[...]

http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/...#ixzz1gSuvV1fc

[VXIII]

Shafia has those kids under control, he told them already what to say and they are following his directions...

[sheevaa]

“I used to do the most (bad) stuff, so why not me?” the young man wonders in an interview with a Kingston police officer that was videotaped July 21, 2009.

Duh, you're male, you actually count for something to Daddy Shafia. Besides throwing up the smokescreen of what a happy household it was, depite the 20 other people who say it was shit.

[Whisper]

Defence for Mohammed Shafia rests

The Shafia family murder trial has broken for the holidays, after the defence for the patriarch of the family rested its case. The defence for the two other accused begins next month.

After his testimony ended, the Shafia sibling used his last words in court to ask if he could say goodbye to his parents. The judge said they'd have to wait on that, so he left waving goodbye to them.

The witness, who can't be identified, once again denied he was covering up for his family, insisting he couldn't answer questions by police over two years, if they didn't ask them.

The two final witnesses testifying in the defence of the father, Mohammed Shafia, were eldest brother of his second wife and co-accused, as well as a business partner in Canada, originally from Afghanistan. [...]
The trial broke for the holiday period, with the lawyers for the mother and their oldest son presenting their cases early next month.

http://www.cjad.com/CJADLocalNews/en...tryID=10326984

[Whisper]

Shafia son asks for hug after grilling in court

After a lengthy and withering cross-examination during which he was accused of conspiring with his family to fabricate alibis, a surviving son of a couple accused of killing three of their daughters finished his court testimony by asking for a hug.

The son of the Montreal couple testified this week for the defence at the Shafia family murder trial in Kingston, Ont. and was subject to more than a full day of cross-examination.

Crown attorney Gerard Laarhuis accused him of having a highly selective memory, and recited a long list of “new information” offered during his testimony.

The sibling, who can’t be identified because of a publication ban, was re-examined by the defence Wednesday morning after being grilled by the Crown.

[..]
Defence lawyer Peter Kemp called the son back to the witness box to question him about his cross-examination testimony.

"You've been cross-examined quite extensively by Mr. Laarhuis with respect to a conspiracy or an agreement to fabricate evidence or make up evidence ... to help your parents and your brother," Kemp said. "What do you have to say about that?"

"That we helped in the murders, is that right?" the son said.

He and the rest of his family maintain the deaths were an accident, a late-night joy ride turned tragic.

Moments later, after the judge told him he could step down, the son turned to Judge Robert Maranger and asked if he could have permission to hug his parents goodbye.

Laarhuis referenced ongoing discussions about the matter, and said, "Now's not the time," causing the mother to burst into tears in the prisoner's box.

The court adjourned for the holidays just after 3 p.m. on Wednesday,with the trial scheduled to resume Jan. 9, 2012.

Crown argues testimony inconsistencies hiding truth

The prosecutor said the witness conveniently remembered details that aided his accused family members, but failed to recall anything that might hinder their defence, reported the CBC’s Dan Halton from the courthouse.

Laarhuis quoted the witness as saying his father was an 8.5 out of 10 on liberal values, and did not care what his children wore or insist that his daughters wear the hijab.

But the prosecutor showed the court the girls’ passport photos, health cards and Canadian residency cards, in which they were all pictured wearing the hijab. The witness maintained he had never seen them wearing the hijab.

Unreliable witness, prosecutor alleges

On Tuesday, the prosecutor suggested the young man had lied to and manipulated authority figures in the past and may not be telling the truth in court.

On Monday, the son testified he might have been responsible for one of the more apparently damning pieces of evidence against his family members. On June 20, 2009, just 10 days before the drowning deaths of his sisters and father's first wife, someone used the family computer to search "where to commit a murder."

The son said he was suicidal at the time, and though he doesn't remember entering that specific search, it might have been him because he didn't know the word for suicide.

He said he was suicidal because his eldest sister, Zainab, had run away to a shelter. But that was on April 17, 2009, and she returned home two weeks later, court has heard.

The computer search came on June 20, three days before the family left on a trip to Niagara Falls, Ont., that would end in the deaths on June 30. At that time, the witness testified he was happy and so was everyone else in the family. Life was good, he said.

Confusion about dates

The son appeared to get confused about the dates Tuesday and in an exchange of escalating tension with the Crown attorney, the son abruptly turned to the judge.

"Your honour, may I be excused to go to the washroom, please?" he said.

The court took a break and when Laarhuis returned to the topic later in the afternoon he started questioning the witness about how he could not know the word for suicide. The son suggested the search was a result of Google's auto-complete function, but Laarhuis noted those precise words were typed.

"It was after April 17th, right?" the son asked.

"No, you're wrong," Laarhuis replied. "It was during your happy period, the 20th [of June]. Do you want to change your testimony about that now?"

"No, not at all," the son said.

The witness has admitted manipulating teachers in the past by telling them lies and has admitted manipulating police in the past by telling them lies, Laarhuis said.

"So where do you draw the line on manipulating people and telling lies?" he asked. The son responded, "When it goes too far, I guess."

Crown alleges so-called honour killings
[...]
The son, and brother to the girls, was hammered by Laarhuis at another point about his statement to police that Zainab came to the motel room that night to borrow his cellphone.

Laarhuis suggested that never happened, and further, that inconsistent statements to police that it might have been his mother who wanted to borrow his phone point to a mistake on his part.

"I'm putting to you, that's where you're getting confused, because the story was supposed to be Zainab came and asked for keys, but you got confused," Laarhuis said. "You got mixed up and you said she came and asked for a cellphone."

The brother denied the suggestion.

He also denied that one of his roles in the family was to report back to his parents and Hamed on the behaviour of Sahar and Geeti at school.

But many of his answers during his cross-examination were unclear, which sometimes elicited chuckles from members of the public watching the trial.

At one point, he said he went to visit the site of the deaths once afterward, to see where his sisters had died. Laarhuis suggested he visited a second time, and the brother responded: "Uh, yes. I'm not sure. I don't recall. I don't remember it."

"You said yes ... What's that about?" Laarhuis asked.

"Maybe I was back there in Kingston, but not on the [specific] site," the brother said.

Laarhuis also suggested the family had stopped at the site of the deaths to use the washroom at the beginning of their trip, which the father had testified to last week, but the brother said he wasn't sure. He said he remembers stopping in a park, but wasn't clear if there was water at that park, saying, "Uh, yes. I don't know. I'm not sure."

He also denied several incidents involving his family that the court has heard other witnesses testify to, including his own father.

http://news.ca.msn.com/canada/shafia...lling-in-court

[VXIII]

After reading his testimony more carefully, Is anyone else thinking that the young Mr. Shafia that is the defendents witness likely played a major part in this but because of his age at the time they didnt do anything about it? He probobly had to stay behind to watch the younger kids but Im thinking this is probobly part of his upbringing as well, he may not have been there but I get the feeling he helped plan and knew all about it beforehand, wouldnt it be part of an afghani boys training to keep "unruly" women in line... (he would most likely be the one that saw Sahar and her bf in a restaraunt and demanded to know "what is going on here"?) I will be interested to see what the others say if they get on witness stand... Probobly the same shit but their slip ups in testimony reveal a lot, too bad Judge Judy isnt the judge here, she would get to the bottom of this shit real quick.

Does anyone know if the juveniles are in foster care or if they are with other family members? Too bad we have to wait until January for more...

[Tundratot]

Is anyone else thinking that the young Mr. Shafia that is the defendents witness likely played a major part in this but because of his age at the time they didnt do anything about it? He probobly had to stay behind to watch the younger kids but Im thinking this is probobly part of his upbringing as well, he may not have been there but I get the feeling he helped plan and knew all about it beforehand, wouldnt it be part of an afghani boys training to keep "unruly" women in line... (he would most likely be the one that saw Sahar and her bf in a restaraunt and demanded to know "what is going on here"?) I will be interested to see what the others say if they get on witness stand... Probobly the same type of thing but their slip ups in testimony reveal a lot, too bad Judge Judy isnt the judge here, she would get to the bottom of this shit real quick.

I'm not sure. But I do think this is the sibling that was making the girls' lives hell by reporting to the parents. He strikes me as a glib, smart-Alec.

[VXIII]

Is anyone else thinking:

Shafia, Yahya and Hamed have told police that the night of the deaths Zainab came into their motel room to borrow the car keys The Crown alleges the now deceased children were killed before the family checked into the motel, and that they made up the story about the car keys to place the girls at the motel alive, which would fit with their assertion that the deaths were a joyride gone wrong.

I found this in Whisper's news article and now it is coming together, they could have done it on the way back at a remote, isolated and different body of water, a river, a lake somewhere out in the boonies, and drowned them there. That could be why Tooba had to wait on side of the road for Shafia and Hamed to find hotel rooms... (could be why she was ill also)

If this is the case the entire family knew, everyone of them.... cant have dead women checking into hotels or carrying bodies inside. That also could be why Hamed and Shafia were unsure while checking in with manager at the hotel about how many would be checking in (to the confusion of the manager) we read this info from another article that Whisper posted a while back....

http://news.ca.msn.com/canada/shafia...lling-in-court

[Whisper]

Is anyone else thinking:



I found this in Whisper's news article and now it is coming together, they could have done it on the way back at a remote, isolated and different body of water, a river, a lake somewhere out in the boonies, and drowned them there. That could be why Tooba had to wait on side of the road for Shafia and Hamed to find hotel rooms... (could be why she was ill also)

If this is the case the entire family knew, everyone of them.... cant have dead women checking into hotels or carrying bodies inside. That also could be why Hamed and Shafia were unsure while checking in with manager at the hotel about how many would be checking in (to the confusion of the manager) we read this info from another article that Whisper posted a while back....

http://news.ca.msn.com/canada/shafia...lling-in-court

Im hoping eventually somewhere in this mess they have security video of the cars pulling up and whos in them at the motel
BUT
Now that Ive said that a light just came on in my head
The reason they waited at the side of the road could be for the fact Hamed and Shafia were intentionally looking for a cheapo motel with no security cameras
They were positive there were none at the canal b.c they checked it to make sure
I bet they did the same with a motel
Im dying to know how many motels were between where they waited on the road and where they finally got rooms
I fucking hate this pack of shits

[Whisper]

Shafia trial: No coverup in ‘honour killings,’ son testifieshttp://www.montrealgazette.com/news/...#ixzz1gecCQP32

Shafia murder trial adjourns until the new year
Shafia trial adjourns until the new year
http://www.torontosun.com/2011/12/14...l-the-new-year

Honour killings 'reprehensible': Imam
http://www.lfpress.com/news/canada/2.../19129866.html

Discrepancies cited in testimony of key witness in ‘honour killings’ trial
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle2271037/

[HeatherHabilatory]

Could they have sustained the bruises on their backs by the car being pushed backward into the lock?

I'm sure it's been asked I just can't find if it has.

[Whisper]

Could they have sustained the bruises on their backs by the car being pushed backward into the lock?

I'm sure it's been asked I just can't find if it has.

Actually the car went in forwards not backwards,the SUV pushed it in

[..]
Constable Chris Prent testified that the silver Lexus SUV rammed the Nissan Sentra from behind as the compact car dangled over a stone precipice, early on the morning of June 30, 2009, at Kingston Mills, a tiny hamlet on the Rideau Canal.

“There was certain damage present on the Nissan and there was certain damage present on the Lexus SUV that coincide and it’s my opinion that the Lexus was used to push the Nissan over the edge of the canal into the water,” Prent testified
[...]
.

Read more: http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/...#ixzz1ggIaPK2N