Due to the foolish suspension of thanks and groans - I wanted to publicly recognize this comment. Kudos MalqJust because there are errors(if they are errors) it qualifies as absolutely racism? No wonder everyone is on eggshells. I hope I don't make an honest mistake. This is the kind of justification that ruins true racism. I truly worry about saying the wrong thing unintentionally because I might get labeled.
That's not what I said.Originally Posted by malq
To clarify:
"Even if this is just some comedy of errors, I can't blame them for perceiving it as racism."
That said, you should worry about getting labeled in the event that you misspeak. EVERYONE should. That's why our parents instruct us to think before we speak.
"Now that ceaseless exposure has calloused us to the lewd and the vulgar, it is instructive to see what still seems wicked to us. What still slaps the clammy flab of our submissive consciousness hard enough to get our attention?"
The Title 1 program is Federal, not State or local. If a poverty ridden district has not applied for Title funds (which I cannot believe they have not due to the NCLB AYP requirement) then I cannot believe the school is still functional. The Title 1 schools have excelled in poverty ridden pockets in Alabama and Florida as well. These are 3 areas I have first hand knowledge. (Southern Alabama - Northern Florida.)
And lunches? Are you kidding me? My daughters attended public school in a district with an operational budget of $280 million dollars. A wealthy district, a wealthy school. Their lunches sucked compared to the public school my daughters currently attend. Seems like your area problem is a bunch of myopic slack jaws running the show.
Well, psh, there's no doubt about that. That's why it's called the banana republic lol. But like Athena said, there is a direct correlation between the wealth of the neighborhood and the funds the schools receive. And although I had never heard of Title 1, Athena just said it may not be enough to really make up the difference in funding.
For the State of Florida Title 1 schools meeting AYP is 100%
Title I allocation
(Includes Basic, Concentration, and LEA grants, Capital Expenditures, Even Start, Migrant Education, and Neglected & Delinquent, ED, 1999-00) $398,211,329
But it IS enough to make a difference. The teachers go through special training - they have to have Title 1 Certifications. Their job is much more intense due to the extras they contend with. They assist the entire family unit not merely the student. Follow the links I provided. It explains exactly what the Title 1 program is. All that Title money goes for the things these children/family need due to socio-economic classification. Not race. The Title schools are doing better than a lot of regularly mixed schools. Their libraries are better (Title money specifically designated for the purchase of books), their computer labs are better (Title money designated), their curricular supplimentals (Title money again). These are things school districts cannot afford through local and State taxes. That's why this Federal program was established, to help the impoverished schools who cannot generate enough to sustain learning materials for their students through taxation.
Only in America. ;) I'm inclined to believe it's a private club and like all private enterprises...they're allowed to affiliate with who they choose. The handling of the situation is lawsuit material, but denying someone entrance into a private venue isn't; they have the right to do whatever they wish. It's also notable that most private clubs are naturally affluent, and many African-Americans aren't in that demographic, so the children at the club may not been exposed to African-Americans.
Oh, I don't by any means...I think there are plenty of southern places that have a multitude of black folks, etc. And I agree also that the New England states are notorious for racism as well. I guess what I was saying was that I literally thought this story would be in one of those southern areas, because that is what is elaborated on the majority of the time.
Ah, gotcha. Thanks for clarifying!
I imagine The erroneous comments made by the pool people are wishing they could clarify their statements as easy as this was done.
That being said, while we are clarifying, will someone please change this thread title to perceived racism is alive and well?
Everyone knows real racism exists, but perceived is just as harmful and ruins the meaning of racism.
"Where the fuck am I ? - Amelia Earhart, 1937
You can say lots of bad things about pedophiles, but at least they drive slowly past schools.->malq
My comment wasn't erroneous; your perception was. I said the "claim" was justified. I've worked in manufacturing shops all my life. If I was hired into one only to hear comments like "What's a <i>woman</i> doing here?" immediately before being asked to leave, then the President of the company issuing a statement about how I was asked to leave because he believed my presense would affect, say, the "strength" of the company, I would be totally justified in crying sexism. If it turned out to be all one big misunderstanding, that would have to be proven before I was no longer justified in my assumption.
Likewise, the title of this thread will change in the event that the investigation does not find the club at fault.
"Now that ceaseless exposure has calloused us to the lewd and the vulgar, it is instructive to see what still seems wicked to us. What still slaps the clammy flab of our submissive consciousness hard enough to get our attention?"
There's more:
(HUNTINGDON VALLEY, Pa.) — State officials will investigate accusations of racial discrimination against a suburban Philadelphia swim club that allegedly reacted to a visiting group of minority children by asking them not to return and pulling other kids out of the water.
The club maintains that accusations of racial discrimination are false and claims overcrowding from more than one outside camp was the problem.
The Creative Steps camp in northeast Philadelphia had contracted for the 65 children at the day camp to go each Monday afternoon to The Valley Club in Huntingdon Valley, camp director Alethea Wright said Thursday. But shortly after they arrived June 29, she said, some black and Hispanic children reported hearing racial comments.
"A couple of the children ran down saying, 'Miss Wright, Miss Wright, they're up there saying, "What are those black kids doing here?"'" she said.
The gated club is on a leafy hillside in a village that straddles two townships with overwhelmingly white populations. It says it has a diverse, multiethnic membership.
Wright said she went to talk to a group of members and heard one woman say she would see to it that the group, made of up of children in kindergarten through seventh grade, did not return.
"Some of the members began pulling their children out of the pool and were standing around with their arms folded," Wright said. "Only three members left their children in the pool with us."
Several days later, the club refunded the camp's $1,950 without explanation, said Wright, who added that some parents are "weighing their options" on legal action.
Club president John Duesler told Philadelphia television station WTXF that several club members complained because the children "fundamentally changed the atmosphere" at the pool but that the complaints didn't involve race.
Amy Goldman said she's been a member of the club for two years. She said the pool wasn't particularly crowded and the children from Creative Steps were "well-behaved and respectful."
She said there had been black members at the club in the past, though she couldn't remember seeing any this year.
Read More
Amy Goldman's comments are pretty damning.
"Now that ceaseless exposure has calloused us to the lewd and the vulgar, it is instructive to see what still seems wicked to us. What still slaps the clammy flab of our submissive consciousness hard enough to get our attention?"
They should be able to use the word "complexion" if they want , too much is being read into that particular word . You're gonna end up overly pc like Britain if you start censoring people , seeing racism where none is intended .
I am not an Ulsterman but yesterday, the 1st. July, as I followed their amazing attack, I felt that I would rather be an Ulsterman than anything else in the world." (Cpt Wilfred Spender, 2nd July 1916)
Oh, I absolutely agree. He should absolutely be able to use the term "complexion". It was clearly nothing more than an insanely poor choice of words. But, given the context, it adds to a worsening situation for the club.
Lord knows - the LAST thing I want is for us to become like Britain. I'd have to move.
"Now that ceaseless exposure has calloused us to the lewd and the vulgar, it is instructive to see what still seems wicked to us. What still slaps the clammy flab of our submissive consciousness hard enough to get our attention?"
It hasnt been proven to be perceived yet. I know that there are instances where minorities cry racism when there is none, but too many little details in this story lead me to believe that is not the case. I think we should all wait before drawing a final conclusion, we just dont know yet either way.
Thanks Thinkgoat, what you are saying makes sense, Im going to have to do more research though, as this doesn't match with what I've seen. I may be wrong though, it's not the first time, and Im sure it wont be the last!But it IS enough to make a difference. The teachers go through special training - they have to have Title 1 Certifications. Their job is much more intense due to the extras they contend with. They assist the entire family unit not merely the student. Follow the links I provided. It explains exactly what the Title 1 program is. All that Title money goes for the things these children/family need due to socio-economic classification. Not race. The Title schools are doing better than a lot of regularly mixed schools. Their libraries are better (Title money specifically designated for the purchase of books), their computer labs are better (Title money designated), their curricular supplimentals (Title money again). These are things school districts cannot afford through local and State taxes. That's why this Federal program was established, to help the impoverished schools who cannot generate enough to sustain learning materials for their students through taxation.
I do not see how the claim was justified and it IS all perception. That proves my point. Anything can be perceived and justified. It happens in every facet of our lives.
I think blatant racism should have a little more meat. Not a someone said sombodys kids heard stuff. by your own admission the investigation is not complete.
Investigation? Man talk about blowing it out of proportion. I am embarrassed for all involved.
I think it was a premature, foolish jump onto the racist bandwagon and the media perpetuated that.
If anyone is interested here is the response from the pool.
"It was never our intention to offend anyone," said John Duesler. "This thing has been blown out of proportion."
Duesler said his club -- which he called "very diverse" -- invited camps in the Philadelphia area to use his facility because of the number of pools in the region closed due to budget cuts this summer. He said he underestimated the amount of children who would participate, and the club's capacity to take on the groups was not up to the task.
"It was a safety issue," he said.
read the whole article here http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/10/phi...nse/index.html
"Where the fuck am I ? - Amelia Earhart, 1937
You can say lots of bad things about pedophiles, but at least they drive slowly past schools.->malq
Only because of where you live. If you lived in my town you'd much rather have it the other way around. Whatever race of people is the poorest is who you would be afraid of. Here mostly the blacks are upper to middle class and the whites are middle to lower.
BTW if you were afraid of a group of black guys in polos with pocket calcs - I'd laugh at you.
Do your cunt talk in private - DV
I hate douche canoes floating down Denial...- Kitty
"The floods will come to wash away the wicked. And I'll go gladly."
~Hugh Howey~
from Molly Fyde and the Parsona Rescue
Sure, they can use that word if they are stupid and want the pool closed from protests.
Freedom of speech is one thing - bad (stupid) PR is another.
Do your cunt talk in private - DV
I hate douche canoes floating down Denial...- Kitty
"The floods will come to wash away the wicked. And I'll go gladly."
~Hugh Howey~
from Molly Fyde and the Parsona Rescue
Why didn't they simply toss a toaster into the pool?
Yet know, my master, God omnipotent,
Is mustering in his clouds on our behalf
Armies of pestilence; and they shall strike
Your children yet unborn and unbegot,
That lift your vassal hands against my head
And threat the glory of my precious crown.
Toaster in pool=lawsuit.
~Emily Bronte "The Horrors of Sleep"Sleep brings no wish to fret
My harrassed heart beneath;
My only wish is to forget
In endless sleep of death
They're black. They will sue regardless.
Yet know, my master, God omnipotent,
Is mustering in his clouds on our behalf
Armies of pestilence; and they shall strike
Your children yet unborn and unbegot,
That lift your vassal hands against my head
And threat the glory of my precious crown.
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Sometimes, I just like to pop in to see what Pete has to say. I must be sick and twisted.
With the exception of maybe one or two people who didn't like to share the pool with children of a darker complexion. What this truly is, was people who paid membership for what was being offered at a private club -void of crowds etc. What they got was a field trip of bus loads of noisy kids interrupting their peaceful afternoon. I think this would have had the same result if the buses were filled with white children. The rest was ignorance and people using an opportunity to turn it towards something more ugly. One or two expressions of racism turned into the entire club. It's an ugly action that breeds and festers be it from the messenger or the recipient.
As long as man walks this earth we will have prejudice, be it over race, religion, class status, etc. It's up to us to educate our children on how to best handle it and how not to share in it. It will never truly go away but maybe one day in the future, it won't be as commonplace.
One more thing, one should not be shocked or surprised that this particular incident took place above the Mason Dixon.
.
.
"Madmama...I love you like a fat kid loves their pork chop".. ~~~Groovy
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
A 1990 article about 'exclusive' Country Clubs and the PGA having to face the ramifications of exclusion due to pigmentation.
http://www.nytimes.com/1990/08/05/sp...pagewanted=all
Last edited by Aslan; July 12th, 2009 at 08:05 PM.
I've lived all over the country and it always seems to be the same for me. It's what happens when aspects of a culture celebrates a criminal mentality.
I hate stupidity in all its various forms and colors. Black people seem to celebrate ignorance around where I live, so for the most part I'd rather not deal with them. Maybe it is just the area, but I see the same thing pretty much everywhere I go, so I'm predisposed to assume it's pretty much the same all over the country. There are always exceptions, I'm never going to discount that, but I just don't buy the whole idea that everyone is equal and we should all just treat everyone the same way no matter what they look like or have been known to act like. Under the law this is fine, but in terms of daily social interactions I'd much rather deal with white people than black people; at stores, on the street, in the gym, at work...I just find it easier. Is it really my fault I think like this? Sure, some of it can be chaulked up to the primitive desire to be with people that look and act more like me, but there is also empirical evidence that can't be ignored relating to the probability of the criminality of certain races. Black people are just more likely to be criminals. Period. You'd have to be unrealistic to not acknowledge that in your daily dealings, and I'd rather be racist than be victimized.
You're kidding right?
You know what, as sad as it is, they can exclude whomever they want. I just hope that people see how wrong it is and stop paying to go there. Unfortunately, it will probably stay in business due to the amount of racists who will appreciate a place like that. Sad but true.
Yes, perception can often be justified (although not always). The lady on the FP the other day who was pulling the race card because her son (a black male) wasn't being treated well in jail? Not justified. Individuals of every color are mistreated by jail staff, and it's quite a common occurrence.
When you and some children in your care hear racially-motivated comments made, then, suddenly, your membership is withdrawn without any reason being offered, only to have the president of the club make statements about the children changing the atmosphere of the club?
As a white person who is especially sensitive to the unjustified use of the race card, I can't see how these people could assume anything BUT racism. Now, you're right - that doesn't mean that it absolutely is (well, the members' comments were), but, until the allegations are proven false, the claim is justified.
Sorry, but I don't assume children to be lying until being proven truthful. According to the article, both children and a staff member heard comments.I think blatant racism should have a little more meat. Not a someone said sombodys kids heard stuff. by your own admission the investigation is not complete.
Yeah, Malq - investigation. You know, that thing that is legally mandated when someone makes claims of discrimination?Investigation? Man talk about blowing it out of proportion. I am embarrassed for all involved.
The fact of the matter is this: Member comments aside, the club revoked and refunded membership without offering a justification. When it became clear that a justification was necessary, the club president made a mildly retarded comment about these children impacting the atmosphere (a statement that contradicts one member's observation). In an attempt to correct that faux paux, the club issued multiple but different statements about why membership was revoked, finally settling on the issue of "safety concerns" which makes one wonder - if the statement in the article about two other camps having their memberships revoked previously is correct, why the fuck are they still issuing memberships to large groups? Seems like a pretty glaring oversight, to me.
Oh, Malq...If anyone is interested here is the response from the pool.
"It was never our intention to offend anyone," said John Duesler. "This thing has been blown out of proportion."
Duesler said his club -- which he called "very diverse" -- invited camps in the Philadelphia area to use his facility because of the number of pools in the region closed due to budget cuts this summer. He said he underestimated the amount of children who would participate, and the club's capacity to take on the groups was not up to the task.
"It was a safety issue," he said.
read the whole article here http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/10/phi...nse/index.html
If it was simply in the interest of safety, tell me this:
Why were the camp advisors not given this reason as justification when their membership was revoked?
Why did Mr. Duesler's initial comment have absolutely nothing to do with safety, instead addressing his members' concerns about "atmosphere"?
Why do you think Amy Goldman would lie about the lack of crowding in the pool?
Mr. Duesler's more recent comments sound a lot like backpeddling, to me.
"Now that ceaseless exposure has calloused us to the lewd and the vulgar, it is instructive to see what still seems wicked to us. What still slaps the clammy flab of our submissive consciousness hard enough to get our attention?"
That's exactly what it was.Mr. Duesler's more recent comments sound a lot like backpeddling, to me.
What she said!
Thank you Athena! We are all aware that there are many out there who are quick to play the race card. But to automatically assume that in every case is ridiculous.
Pre-judgment isn't unreasonable or wrong, and those who suggest that it is are denying themselves a particularly beneficial tool. Personally, my scope is wider. The statement that black people are more prone to crime is true. But, is it because they're black, or is it because a lot of black people are poor? I find the latter to be the more accurate perspective, which is why my lens has a wider angle. I would replace "black" with "poor" in your statement and "white" with "financially-stable", as, in my experience, poor people tend to celebrate ignorance and are more prone to be engaged in criminal activity.
Of course, because "rich" or "poor" can be difficult to determine just by looking at someone, I tend to judge based on how people consciously present themselves. Yes, this tends to include a disproportionately high percentage of black people, but that's due to their chosen style of dress or speech rather than their skin color.
"Now that ceaseless exposure has calloused us to the lewd and the vulgar, it is instructive to see what still seems wicked to us. What still slaps the clammy flab of our submissive consciousness hard enough to get our attention?"
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