For those who think blatant racism is dead...

[Athena]

...and for those of us who know better, a little something to boil our blood.

Pool Boots Kids Who Might "Change the Complexion"

Campers sent packing after first visit to swim club

NBC Philadelphia - Dymire Baylor says he overheard a woman ask, "What are all these black kids doing?" when he and his friends showed up.

"I heard this lady, she was like, 'Uh, what are all these black kids doing here?' She's like, 'I'm scared they might do something to my child,'" said camper Dymire Baylor.

The Creative Steps Day Camp paid more than $1900 to The Valley Swim Club. The Valley Swim Club is a private club that advertises open membership. But the campers' first visit to the pool suggested otherwise.

"When the minority children got in the pool all of the Caucasian children immediately exited the pool," Horace Gibson, parent of a day camp child, wrote in an email. "The pool attendants came and told the black children that they did not allow minorities in the club and needed the children to leave immediately."

The next day the club told the camp director that the camp's membership was being suspended and their money would be refunded.

The explanation they got was either dishearteningly honest or poorly worded.

"There was concern that a lot of kids would change the complexion … and the atmosphere of the club," John Duesler, President of The Valley Swim Club said in a statement.

Read More

WOW. Absolutely despicable. Lawsuit material, hopefully.

[akika666]

yes it is lawsuit material. i'm not that surprised that people are racist, frankly, but they usually do a better job of disguising it. it's mindblowing that a club "president" would give a statement worded like that. what a maroon!

racist and stupid do tend come as a set.

[Pixie]

How fucking disgusting! I wish I could poop in their pool.

[buggysmommy]

Not at all surprised about the racisim...

Very surprised that it is in a place like Philadelphia?! I was expecting this story to be more like some deep south place - Alabama or something. Philly is somewhat of a melting pot I would think-that is where the term blatant comes into play...

[malq]

This is the other side of it. It is a member pool and the members do not want the pool opening it up to outside groups They are going to call it racism until proven otherwise, The media is spinning this. the managers comment may have been a poor choice of words. That is the rub. I just heard on the radio the reason was the pool was not set up to handle large groups and there was conflict with the pool being subbed out.
I can understand that.
The poorly worded quote by the president was enough to seize on. You could also read,

Q"There was concern that a lot of kids would change the complexion … and the atmosphere of the club," John Duesler, President of The Valley Swim Club said in a statement.EQ

as simply that. a lot of kids would change the atmosphere the people are paying for.
I would be pissed too and see no race card here. If they screamed NIGGAS IN DA POO! and kicked them out, there would be an issue.


here is info buried in alink on Athenas post. Why wasn't this the headline?

"This has nothing to do with race," member Lori Slowinski said. "I paid my money for a private swim club…if they're gonna have it out to camps, then I want my money back."

Jim Flynn went right to the club president after the kids took the plunge into the pool.

"I was the first person to talk to the president, because the pool was overcrowded," said Flynn. "As members we have nothing to hide. There's good people here."

He believes the club's closure for fear of protests is wrong. "I do not condone the club being closed today and I will not condone it."

Members are angry the club, which is advertising open enrollment, inked deals with three camps to have campers come in and swim. They say members were not notified about allowing the camps to attend the club.

The club issued this statement late Thursday, responding to the allegations of racism:

[StashRider]

I smell bullshit on this story. I really don't think they meant skin color when they said complexion and I think it's possible that these kids were being rowdy douchebags and they meant they didn't like rowdy kids.

Now I could be wrong. Very wrong.

But I could be right. Very VERY right.

[solange82200]

This is the other side of it. It is a member pool and the members do not want the pool opening it up to outside groThey are going to call it racism until proven otherwise, the media is spinning this, the managers comment(ups. That is the rub.I just heard on the radio the reason was the pool was not set up to handle large groups and there was conflict with the pool being subbed out.
I can understand that.
The poorly worded quote by the president was enough to seize on. You could also read,

Q"There was concern that a lot of kids would change the complexion … and the atmosphere of the club," John Duesler, President of The Valley Swim Club said in a statement.EQ

as simply that. a lot of kids would change the atmosphere the people are paying for.
I would be pissed too and see no race card here.


link on athenas post. Why wasn't this the headline?

"This has nothing to do with race," member Lori Slowinski said. "I paid my money for a private swim club…if they're gonna have it out to camps, then I want my money back."

Jim Flynn went right to the club president after the kids took the plunge into the pool.

"I was the first person to talk to the president, because the pool was overcrowded," said Flynn. "As members we have nothing to hide. There's good people here."

He believes the club's closure for fear of protests is wrong. "I do not condone the club being closed today and I will not condone it."

Members are angry the club, which is advertising open enrollment, inked deals with three camps to have campers come in and swim. They say members were not notified about allowing the camps to attend the club.

The club issued this statement late Thursday, responding to the allegations of racism:

Ok, so what is this about:

"When the minority children got in the pool all of the Caucasian children immediately exited the pool," Horace Gibson, parent of a day camp child, wrote in an email. "The pool attendants came and told the black children that they did not allow minorities in the club and needed the children to leave immediately."

Why do we always have to spin things to further our own agenda? Maybe it didnt happen the way its alleged, but why do people always have to twist the truth to fit what they want it to be? Are you alleging that those quotes or made up, or what? Im willing to not jump to conclusions on these people just yet, but to sit here and insist it's completely innocent based on what we know so far, sounds like you are seeing what you WANT to see

[malq]

Ok, so what is this about:

"When the minority children got in the pool all of the Caucasian children immediately exited the pool," Horace Gibson, parent of a day camp child, wrote in an email. "The pool attendants came and told the black children that they did not allow minorities in the club and needed the children to leave immediately."

Why do we always have to spin things to further our own agenda? Maybe it didnt happen the way its alleged, but why do people always have to twist the truth to fit what they want it to be? Are you alleging that those quotes or made up, or what? Im willing to not jump to conclusions on these people just yet, but to sit here and insist it's completely innocent based on what we know so far, sounds like you are seeing what you WANT to see

anybody can write that in an email! it is his interpretation so yes he may be spinning it for his own agenda!

[Valasca]

Pfft. I live in south florida. I KNOW there is blatant racism in ALL forms.

[solange82200]

anybody can write that in an email! it is his interpretation so yes he may be spinning it for his own agenda!

That is also true. I just cant believe that "complexion" quote, what a moron. I hope Im wrong, I really do. Im just not 100 percent convinced yet

[akika666]

anybody can write that in an email! it is his interpretation so yes he may be spinning it for his own agenda!

just like you, my first reaction is skepticism, that someone's whining and looking for publicity. we belong to a pool club, and i would NOT be in favor of large groups of children invading on a daily basis.

but the rank stupidity of the pool club officer using the word "complexion" is staggering in this day and age. assuming it's what he meant, i can't think of a more impolitic way to say, "we decided that we don't want all those kids running around and drowning on our property."

[coffee achiever]

Not at all surprised about the racisim...

Very surprised that it is in a place like Philadelphia?! I was expecting this story to be more like some deep south place - Alabama or something. Philly is somewhat of a melting pot I would think-that is where the term blatant comes into play...

Please don't buy into the "all southerners are racist redneck assholes" stereotype. The reason you hear about more racism in the south is because the majority of the African-American population in the US lives in the Southeastern states. Believe me, some of the deepest racism is in the North, particularly in the New England states.

[Thinkgoat]

It's always seemed that "private clubs" are private for a specific reason. Usually the membership is geared toward a certain demographic. Membership fees are set targeting a certain "class" of people, often the middle to higher bracket of the financial chain. It's a paradigm that has changed so very little when society in general has become more accepting of diversity.

Exclusiveness. It's vanity driven.

And, although I have searched for data to bolster my claim, I do believe the conception of "private clubs" was brought about by the "needed" insurance that certain types wouldn't invade their space. What may have once started as racism as the driving force has turned into "classism". It has very little to do skin color and everything to do with social status.

I worked at a resort in Southern Alabama. We employed black and white - all nationalities. Employees were not given permission to utilize the amenities during "off hours" because the owner thought the guests would turn their noses up at the thought. It had nothing to do with skin color. He just had an unrealistic view on people who actually worked for a living. I had ties to the newer resort down the road. Not only was the owner less rigid in his views, he actually encouraged his employees to bring their families on their days off. He felt it spoke highly of the atmosphere if employees wanted to come spend their "off time". The majority of their clientèle were Caucasian and the majority of his employees were Blacks.

Since both resorts were "gated" (private) and their rental fees targeted the higher bracket of the financial chain, the reason was not to keep the minority skin colors out of their facilities but rather to bring in a higher caliber of guests who are often assumed to take better care of the things they pay for. "More refined". It's bullshit! I've seen more damage caused by the spoiled rotten than I have by people who've actually worked hard for everything they've gotten. Classism.

[DarkPrincess]

I saw this and I don't know... The manager should never speak to the press or anyone else again, as he has a major case of verbal diarrhea. Some of these groups get pretty crazy. We have an inner city program that brings kids to the park here. Sometimes I leave early because the kids get too wild. It's not all of them, just some. This may be what happened here. On the other hand, the city of brotherly love is the most racist place I have ever been too. Come to think of it, Pennsylvania is the most racist state I've ever been to.

[Aslan]

I was expecting this story to be more like some deep south place - Alabama or something.

This makes me a sad panda

[CPL CHUD]

It's not dead. I'm a racist. I definitely am more suspicious of a group of black males walking down the street in baggy jeans and FUBU t-shirts than a group of white males walking down the street in striped polo shirts with pocket calculators. One is statistically more likely to rob me in a dark alley. The other is more likely to rob me in the stock market. Which is worse? I cannot say for sure, but that is still racism, pure and simple. I'd rather not live by black people though. At least with the whites I have a fighting chance of leaving with my skin intact.

[solange82200]

It's not dead. I'm a racist. I definitely am more suspicious of a group of black males walking down the street in baggy jeans and FUBU t-shirts than a group of white males walking down the street in striped polo shirts with pocket calculators. One is statistically more likely to rob me in a dark alley. The other is more likely to rob me in the stock market. Which is worse? I cannot say for sure, but that is still racism, pure and simple. I'd rather not live by black people though. At least with the whites I have a fighting chance of leaving with my skin intact.

Well look, that is understandable. My son is half black and even I feel the same way sometimes. Unfortunately, this day in age, a lot of black people still live in poverty, and when you live in poverty, you are less likely to get a good education (the public schools in poor neighborhoods dont get enough tax dollars, and they suck), more likely to go to prison, etc. I really think as a society we need to help the black community break that cycle, not just for their sake, but for ours. At the end of the day, we are all Americans.

[runecire]

yes it is lawsuit material.

Is it? I do not support this kind of crap, but if the Swim Club is privately owned and does not receive public funds of any kind, can they be legally forced to admit anyone? Usually private organizations and businesses have blatant signs stating "We reserve the right to refuse entrance to anyone for any reason." It may not be politically correct to be this way, but is it illegal?

[Thinkgoat]

Unfortunately, this day in age, a lot of black people still live in poverty, and when you live in poverty, you are less likely to get a good education (the public schools in poor neighborhoods dont get enough tax dollars, and they suck), more likely to go to prison, etc. I really think as a society we need to help the black community break that cycle, not just for their sake, but for ours. At the end of the day, we are all Americans.

Ugh. Public schools with a majority of "poverty" level children (Elementary - all races) get Title 1 grants. It has nothing to do with black or white. Once again, it's a "class" issue. Lower class vs. middle/upper class. The Title 1 schools in my area have better resources, curricular aids, teachers, etc. We already pander to the underprivileged and in the meantime, students (of all colors) who are excelling in their curricular endeavors are getting the shaft.

[Silvahalo]

Blatant racism is alive, oh yeah. Little things I notice all the time, blatant racism is not as common but rears its ugly head often enough to remind me it is certainly not dead and not dying anytime soon.

The only valid point is regarding the membership and that its a private facility but this comment...

..."The pool attendants came and told the black children that they did not allow minorities in the club and needed the children to leave immediately."

That one is hard to explain other than the obvious. Private or not, if you are not racist or just want to appear you are not, just tell the people in charge that they will have to leave because it is a member/private only pool. Bringing in anything to do with race is stupid and an unveiled look at what they think of people other than Caucasians swimming there. And that "complexion" wording, stupid and also very revealing of what they really think. Poor word choice for sure but I suspect it was a message meant just as it sounded.

Racist assholes.

[Athena]

It's not dead. I'm a racist. I definitely am more suspicious of a group of black males walking down the street in baggy jeans and FUBU t-shirts than a group of white males walking down the street in striped polo shirts with pocket calculators. One is statistically more likely to rob me in a dark alley. The other is more likely to rob me in the stock market. Which is worse? I cannot say for sure, but that is still racism, pure and simple. I'd rather not live by black people though. At least with the whites I have a fighting chance of leaving with my skin intact.

What about a group of black males in striped polo shirts and pocket calculators?

I'm FAR, FAR more likely to judge someone based on their self-chosen indicators (clothing, hair and/or makeup, tattoos, etc.) than skin color.

In fact, the girls and I went out to dinner the other evening downtown. We were stuck in an elevator with three yuppie looking black guys and a couple of sleazy looking white guys. We were more than comfortable cuddling up to the black guys to stay out of the white guys' reach.

I mean, one of the black dudes had one of those sweaters from the 80s with the alligator on it. You're trying to tell me that guy's a threat? Pssshhhh...

Is it? I do not support this kind of crap, but if the Swim Club is privately owned and does not receive public funds of any kind, can they be legally forced to admit anyone? Usually private organizations and businesses have blatant signs stating "We reserve the right to refuse entrance to anyone for any reason." It may not be politically correct to be this way, but is it illegal?

This club advertised open enrollment. They cannot exclude based on race.

Here's my thing: Yes, the club has come out denying racism. OF COURSE they are. They're being investigated and they're looking at a potential lawsuit. What do you think they're gonna do? Throw their hands up and say, "Ohhhhh... you got us..." No.

But the excuse they gave would have to be such an oversight, it's more likely to be bullshit. They're saying they're not equipped to handle large crowds. However, this club has entertained large crowds before and specifically arranged these memberships, knowing full well what it would entail, prior to the kids' arrival.

Of course, this is AFTER the President came out talking about "complexion" (and yes, I realize he meant atmosphere, but I'm not convinced there wasn't a Freudian element to it).

Personally, I'm hypersensitive about the race card being pulled. I just lectured a lady on the front page yesterday about why the race card shouldn't be pulled at just any sign of generic discrimination. But I have no doubt that these kids heard comments about "black kids", there's no word that any employee talked to the camp's chauffeurs about the kids' behavior prior to booting them, then the dumbass President comes out and makes his "complexion" comment, only for the club to trip all over themselves trying to throw out an unlikely excuse for all of it.

Even if all these things have perfectly reasonable explanations that have nothing to do with race, it's SUCH a comedy of errors, the racism claim is absolutely justified.

But I happen to believe that, generally, where there's smoke, there's fire. As was mentioned, the state is investigating. I think we'll find their membership records to be more homogenous than the club would like to purport.

[Silvahalo]

[...]
Of course, this is AFTER the President came out talking about "complexion" (and yes, I realize he meant atmosphere, but I'm not convinced there wasn't a Freudian element to it).
[...]
Even if all these things have perfectly reasonable explanations that have nothing to do with race, it's SUCH a comedy of errors, the racism claim is absolutely justified.

But I happen to believe that, generally, where there's smoke, there's fire. As was mentioned, the state is investigating. I think we'll find their membership records to be more homogenous than the club would like to purport.

Yes, yes and yes, totally agree. Not racist a crock of shit. Less veiled attempt to cover up racism does not bother me, the fact that they are trying to dismiss the racist comments and behavior bothers me but is certainly expected.

[solange82200]

Ugh. Public schools with a majority of "poverty" level children (Elementary - all races) get Title 1 grants. It has nothing to do with black or white. Once again, it's a "class" issue. Lower class vs. middle/upper class. The Title 1 schools in my area have better resources, curricular aids, teachers, etc. We already pander to the underprivileged and in the meantime, students (of all colors) who are excelling in their curricular endeavors are getting the shaft.

That is not true, by a long shot. The schools in miami in the poor areas are horrible, Ive seen it myself in several instances. I live in Pinecrest, an upper middle class neighborhood that has the best public public schools in all of Miami. The people who live there make more money, therefore more taxes go to the schools in that area. At my job in downtown Miami, we do stuff to help out a school in the area, it's in Overtown, a really poor area of Miami that is predominantly black. Even their school lunches are crap compared to my son's school lunches. The school is a nightmare compared to my son's school. We hold food drives in the summer because many of the kids usually eat one full meal a day, the free meal they get at school, which means that during the summer they barely eat.

If by pandering to the underprivileged you mean welfare to adults, that may be true, but not when it comes to children and schools. Maybe in your area, but that doesnt mean it's that way everywhere.

[solange82200]

What about a group of black males in striped polo shirts and pocket calculators?

I'm FAR, FAR more likely to judge someone based on their self-chosen indicators (clothing, hair and/or makeup, tattoos, etc.) than skin color.

In fact, the girls and I went out to dinner the other evening downtown. We were stuck in an elevator with three yuppie looking black guys and a couple of sleazy looking white guys. We were more than comfortable cuddling up to the black guys to stay out of the white guys' reach.

I mean, one of the black dudes had one of those sweaters from the 80s with the alligator on it. You're trying to tell me that guy's a threat? Pssshhhh...



This club advertised open enrollment. They cannot exclude based on race.

Here's my thing: Yes, the club has come out denying racism. OF COURSE they are. They're being investigated and they're looking at a potential lawsuit. What do you think they're gonna do? Throw their hands up and say, "Ohhhhh... you got us..." No.

But the excuse they gave would have to be such an oversight, it's more likely to be bullshit. They're saying they're not equipped to handle large crowds. However, this club has entertained large crowds before and specifically arranged these memberships, knowing full well what it would entail, prior to the kids' arrival.

Of course, this is AFTER the President came out talking about "complexion" (and yes, I realize he meant atmosphere, but I'm not convinced there wasn't a Freudian element to it).

Personally, I'm hypersensitive about the race card being pulled. I just lectured a lady on the front page yesterday about why the race card shouldn't be pulled at just any sign of generic discrimination. But I have no doubt that these kids heard comments about "black kids", there's no word that any employee talked to the camp's chauffeurs about the kids' behavior prior to booting them, then the dumbass President comes out and makes his "complexion" comment, only for the club to trip all over themselves trying to throw out an unlikely excuse for all of it.

Even if all these things have perfectly reasonable explanations that have nothing to do with race, it's SUCH a comedy of errors, the racism claim is absolutely justified.

But I happen to believe that, generally, where there's smoke, there's fire. As was mentioned, the state is investigating. I think we'll find their membership records to be more homogenous than the club would like to purport.

I agree. I really dont understand how anyone can come to their defense at this time. I can understand saying, hey, lets wait and see both sides of the story. But to come out and say that nothing is wrong here, again, another case of people seeing what they want to see, to further their own agenda.

[Athena]

Maybe in your area, but that doesnt mean it's that way everywhere.

Indeed. While there are some generally-held funding standards, funding can vary widely from state-to-state, district-to-district.

In many states, public school funding is primarily drawn from local property taxes and levies are passed or denied by local voters. This can create vast discrepancies in funding between districts, discrepancies that Title 1 grants don't come close to reconciling, often times.

Historically, urban schools are under-funded when compared to their suburban counterparts. But ThinkGoat is right - it IS a class issue. Of course, race and socio-economics are closely tied, which can give the impression that it's a matter of race rather than class.

[CPL CHUD]

I mean, one of the black dudes had one of those sweaters from the 80s with the alligator on it. You're trying to tell me that guy's a threat? Pssshhhh...

Haha....everyone's a threat.

[Eagles Mom]

I belong to a private pool. It isn't subsidized by the Homeowner's Association at all. To be a member, you must pay the fee...period. We do not end the season with any money left over. With the exception of the life guards, every position at the pool is done by volunteers. Our fee is not set to an outrageous amount. Several summers ago I had a family tell me we were racist. I answered that their money was just as green as mine and that was really all I cared about.

We also allow several day cares to use the pool for a fee. A couple of weeks ago two black boys from one of the day cares told one of the kids who is a member of the pool to "get out because we don't want your white germs near us."

Racism works both ways.

[solange82200]

We also allow several day cares to use the pool for a fee. A couple of weeks ago two black boys from one of the day cares told one of the kids who is a member of the pool to "get out because we don't want your white germs near us."

Racism works both ways.

Wow, that's sad that they would say that. It's not right no matter who does it.

[Eagles Mom]

Wow, that's sad that they would say that. It's not right no matter who does it.

I told them that it was unacceptable and we didn't allow talk like that. Exactly the same thing I would say had the situation been reversed.

[malq]

The more I hear on this, the more I am feeling like it is an internal conflict between the paying members and the management who allowed open enrollment despite the paying members wishes to keep it private.
I gather when the first busload of people showed up and jumped in the pool , the shit hit the fan with the members who wanted it for themselves.
It so happened the arriving party was black and some inappropriate language was used.
I gather the management caved to paying members wishes to keep it private.
all emails and quotes sentences on what was said seem like third party information and will have to be carefully sorted out for validity.
I see nothing to suggest racism but some poorly worded sentences.
the hypersensitivity of the possibility of racism is a petri dish for The hairdoo of the week.
I am curious how this works.
Even if all these things have perfectly reasonable explanations that have nothing to do with race, it's SUCH a comedy of errors, the racism claim is absolutely justified.

Just because there are errors(if they are errors) it qualifies as absolutely racism? No wonder everyone is on eggshells. I hope I don't make an honest mistake. This is the kind of justification that ruins true racism. I truly worry about saying the wrong thing unintentionally because I might get labeled.