3 children found dead. NY mom arrested.

[Dark Star]

http://tinyurl.com/33de33

Wow, an unbelievable story. Mom apparently had a lot of problems. Pushing empty baby stroller down the street, might just be considered a little problem. Heh?

"Officers were met at the two-story home by a woman who directed them to a top-floor apartment, where they found the children, Jewell Ward, 6, Michael Demesyeux, 5, and Innocent Demesyeux, 1.

One of the children's name is Innocent!?

[Morbid]

The two older children.

[Dark Star]

Awwww man, seeing those little faces....wow. That's fucking sad.

[Morbid]

I am watching some videos in relation to this case and I am absolutely shocked at the complete ignorance of some of the people involved. The brother states that his sister is not crazy, the mother of the woman screams at reporters that the system failed her daughter and for people to pray for her, as that is the only thing that can be done, and a friend of the family goes on camera blaiming the "system" as well. The system failed this woman and that is why the kids are dead.

I am amazed that these people have enough synapses firing to breathe automatically. It really does make me angry for some reason.

[sassymom08]

It's always someone else's fault isn't it? No one takes responsibility for their actions anymore. I see it all the time, kids watch parents blame others for their grief, so the kid does something wrong and blames little johnny next door. The parent then says "oh, my bundle of joy must be right, little johnny's an ass" so the kid learns thats how to deal with things. They then grow up being blameless to show their kids how to do the same thing.
The grandma obviously did this and is perpetuating it by saying the system is at fault, not her psycho murdering bundle of joy!

[michelle]

Doubtful the relatives would say "Hey we knew she was nuts, had problems. We just didn't want to be bothered with it."
They didn't fail-the system did. Well sounds like they all failed to me.

[swivel]

Morbid, when you rely on the "system" to feed you, and house you, and pay for you to have kids, and all your relatives are living in the "big house", or trying to get a cushy government job....

...how the hell are you supposed to know that you can live your life outside the system?


I don't blame these people. The rednecks in their trailer parks, living off welfare. The hoods with their micro-economy that runs off of food stamps. These people are doing what any animal does when coddled. Learned helplessness. No, I don't blame them at all, I DO blame the system.

The difference is, they blame the system when it "breaks down". I blame the system when it succeeds. When the system feeds someone who is too lazy to go work two or three jobs to feed themselves, I blame the system. When we allow people to live in a $25/month apartment, I blame the system. When we give food stamps to a family, without understanding that we are really giving them money for alcohol and cigarettes (the food stamps just free up other funds), I blame the system.

We could pull the entire fucking rug out from under these poor creatures, and most of them would survive, and their children would learn to not rely on anyone. Which is the attitude you need to be self-reliant. Look, if Hispanics can come over here, with a system that fights them at every level, and prosper, then the white trash and the other minorities have no excuse. If someone is poor, it is because they want to be poor.

I blame the bleeding-heart fucks that run half our country. The morons that don't want to ever tell their children, "No". Who think we shouldn't keep score at ball-games. Who want everyone to be happy all the time, which just fucking deadens you to the world. I blame these idiots, who trade a good coddling for a vote. They mean well, but they are too fucking stupid to do well.

[Pirelli Jones]

No, I don't blame them at all, I DO blame the system.

Swivel for someone with such a seemingly opposite viewpoint I sure respect what you say.

I think blaming the system is the wrong way to phrase this though, I CREDIT the system. The people living off the lowest rung of handouts aren't making over on us you guys. They're suffering whatever flavor bi-polar-ness is trendy and addicted to drugs and alcohol. The simple protocols that we've designed to support our communal infrastructure are overwhelming to their under-evolved brains and they are unable to interact with institutions such as the spat of genius' forthwith enough to find the hospital but instead of transferring the baby to the Safe Harbor point they drop them in a lavatory waste-can or at the ICU receptionist, etc.

Another aspect of the system these chowderheads don't get is that it isn't interconnected, if you need help from the DCFS folks (And rightly or not I think the idea of receiving "help" from DCFS would be laughable to many of those who fit the profile) you have to use their protocols and forms. God help you if it gets to the point that DCFS is working your case off of LEO forms...Connections between Medical Services and Social Services may be there but with the limited mental capacity displayed so often by the perps on these pages I truly don't know that the connection is strong enough to be considered a "safety net" necessarily.

The system is really a generic term covering many many systems that make up the fabric of America. It mostly doesn't interfere with the public and the public has some freedom to determine how much interference they throw into the system.

These systems rely heavily on honest intentions and societal support to exist, they cannot reach out to the public at large with any more than a media awareness campaign before they are treading on personal rights of individuals which we cherish in this country. Perhaps to a fault as the cracks are wide and women, infants, and children are too often lost between them.

But this isn't Disneyland and one won't find a life concierge to direct them through the available support, they will often get buried under the bureaucracy of it and accept their fate if they prove unable to navigate any given system. Its not a societal ladder its more like an elevator moving down and we've all got to stay ahead of it. If you slip down to where society ends someone gets ripped to shreds and then the system is going to come get involved and we're all gonna read about it and chuckle to keep from retching at what man may wrought.

So I guess I too have faith in the system, but I know its not some big snuggly warm teddy-bear. Its more like a house of cards built over a bear trap that must be dealt with carefully.

[swivel]

Nice read, Pirelli. I enjoyed that post. I really love the last line.

I would probably have a hard time telling if our social welfare systems were necessary, were it not for the dozens of generations of immigrants that have come here and prospered without using them. I would have to be racist to think that all these other ethnic groups could do it, but blacks can't. And I'm not willing to believe that.

And I do realize that back in the early-mid 90's, there were more whites on welfare than blacks, but that has not been the case since at least 1998. And even back when the numbers were close to one another, it was a disproportionate percentage of the population. This may be due to discrimination at work. It may be because the workplace hasn't been open to blacks for more than a generation yet, it may have to do with the leg-up inheritance provides. Or... it could be that we have coddled them. That the real racists are the folks on the far Left, who deep down, don't think that blacks can take care of themselves.

I've heard some inspiring black leaders assert this very theory. And they are usually vilified for it.

[Athena]

Wow. This whole thread deserves a standing olvation. Well stated, gentlemen.

[Pirelli Jones]

I would probably have a hard time telling if our social welfare systems were necessary, were it not for the dozens of generations of immigrants that have come here and prospered without using them. I would have to be racist to think that all these other ethnic groups could do it, but blacks can't. And I'm not willing to believe that.

It sounds a little racist if you're discounting all of the unofficial support systems various groups implemented in the ethnic centered neighborhoods that still exist to some degree and things like the Farm Bureau subsidies that allow mid-America white men to collect gov't surplus checks in exchange for not producing. But if you acknowledge that most of the immigrants who came here were welcomed with some sort of support and continuing through the American Experience there have been some questionable programs that supplemented income for non-contributors then I don't feel you could determine necessity necessarily but you'd see that its not a race issue so much as say reparations.

Now that seems specific to the African-American experience and if you are against reparations then you must ergo be racist. ;)

[swivel]

There was a support system in the form of a community. But I've read several accounts of immigrants from various periods in American History, and it wasn't pretty. People got off the ship with nothing. Rockefeller's life is simply amazing. The Pilgrims were not well-off, and their only support system was a few helpful Indians vs. thousands that wanted them dead. Fugitive slaves made it to the North with no support system and did much better than post-war blacks in the South. Hispanics come in illegally and flourish, relative to the state of people trapped in the Welfare system.

And part of the reason I think we could get rid of Welfare is precisely what you are alluding to. People would help each other out. And they would do it more efficiently, and with demands that the people they help do not waste their efforts. And there is pride in helping someone else out. The govt. does not feel pride over its welfare systems.

Also, I'm not even sure that the Welfare systems are Constitutional. I can't find any place in the very short document that gives Congress these powers. But, that can probably be said about 99% of what the Fed. does.

[Pirelli Jones]

There was a support system in the form of a community. But I've read several accounts of immigrants from various periods in American History, and it wasn't pretty. People got off the ship with nothing. Rockefeller's life is simply amazing. The Pilgrims were not well-off, and their only support system was a few helpful Indians vs. thousands that wanted them dead. Fugitive slaves made it to the North with no support system and did much better than post-war blacks in the South. Hispanics come in illegally and flourish, relative to the state of people trapped in the Welfare system.

I've been in several trailer parks and ghettos in contemporary America and I can promise you it ain't pretty either.

I quoted the whole bit to highlight the slave statement where you discount the contributions of the "underground railroad" as if each and every fugitive slave independently migrated to free lands and found no one welcoming them when arriving.

Community organizations and quazi-organizations worked at a point in history but not all subcultures developed them equally and as the manifest destiny scattered developing Americans into the country at large their generations did not necessarily fare well and found themselves sequestered from those community resources when in need of such support. I can understand the scenario as surely as I can understand the bleeding heart that feels anyone unable to pull themselves up by the boot straps should be buttressed by gov't support. I don't agree with it but I understand that some consider that compassion.

As for the claim that illegal Hispanics are flourishing I find that claim arguable. Locally there is movement to 1) INS deputize the police force, 2) codify the English language as only permissable language for village documents (this means no dual language forms), 3) Legislate street parking with the stated motivation of discouraging extended family instances.

Working in the service industry to get through college I was acquainted with many illegals, and I know they prefer to be labeled "undocumented" but I choose to recognize the geo-political lines as they exist today and the governing body recognized by the world council to determine legality of issues ranging from citizenship to homicide to currency, none of those illegals were living in conditions I could term flourishing.

Further I would offer a personal anecdote about a father-in-law I have who was raised on welfare in Chicago's ghetto by immigrant parents and successfully adjusted to rural life and became politically successful in a small farm town.

The point, I think, is you limit scope to welfare and bitch about that system as if it doesn't exist within the larger system I call "The American Experience" alongisde various systems that subsidize farmers, artists, pharmaceutical companies, philanthropists, scientists, clergy of all stripes, etc. All of these systems serve a "good" that was considered worthy by some quorum of government officials and funds were earmarked. Compromises built the house. Not everyone sucks personal gain out of any given system.

Furthermore, for every Rockefeller there are 10 Morgan's that came about it by swindling everyone they could get it from. That is perfectly ok, this is a capitalist economy and we value the dollar over the soul everytime.

[swivel]

I agree that subsidies are just like Welfare. That's why I want to get rid of them as well. No more subsidies for anything. Espeically farming subsidies.

[Pirelli Jones]

That's fine by me but it hasn't been pragmatic when those that reject personal responsibility fall by the wayside and corpses clutter the landscape the refined voter demands change and politicians solve the corpse issue..bada bing bada boom, Welfare Reform!

[swivel]

That's fine by me but it hasn't been pragmatic when those that reject personal responsibility fall by the wayside and corpses clutter the landscape the refined voter demands change and politicians solve the corpse issue..bada bing bada boom, Welfare Reform!

There won't be corpses on the landscape. You have to get off your ass, open the door, and walk outside to get TO the landscape. These are the same people that wouldn't walk 5 miles to get to water and food after Katrina. So, look, those bodies are going to stay right where they are, on the sofa. In a trailer or in some government housing. And the stench of their rot will not be stronger than the shit-hole they live in.

They will just be gone. *poof* Eaten by their abused pets.