Texas judge allows the mother (Marissa Evans) collection of dead son's sperm

**Peeperann** · July 19th, 2009, 02:27 PM

Having grandchildren of my own, I can understand her emotional need. Looking at my grandkids, I see my children in them and it's an amazing feeling. But this does raise a lot legal issues, as well as her age. Is she going to be around for them to grow up? Is she going to have the energy it takes to raise them?

I'm not sure how I feel about this one.

**~Absynthe~** · July 19th, 2009, 02:28 PM

I could understand if it was your husband but not your son.that's just fucked up.

**Countess Olenska** · July 19th, 2009, 03:08 PM

I don't think it's any creepier than harvesting sperm from your husband. Both are dead and both are unable to have said babies anymore. I'm sure it's more like you are thinking the relationship between Mom and Son is a tad askew. Thinking clearly I would say they are both fucked situations. Dead people can not give consent...It's weird, it's odd... it's not the norm. Idk though. As a mom of 4 boys I can relate in some strange way. She has this small window of opportunity to do this so if she doesn't seize it now and second guesses herself she'll be beating herself up forever. It's like she's trying to beat death. "You took my son but I won't let you take my family"

I don't see it as perverse but desperate and I don't blame her.

**Peeperann** · July 19th, 2009, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by ~Absynthe~

I could understand if it was your husband but not your son.that's just fucked up.

I understand you feeling that way, part of me does too. But on the flip side, if you're not old enough to have grandchildren, then you can't understand the feeling of seeing yourself and your child mixed up into this new little person.

I know she thinks this will give her a part of her son back, and really a part of him will live on. She will see things that will greatly resemble her son. But I don't think she understands it will not give her her son back. They will be their own person.

I agree it's creepy to many to think about your own son's sperm. Hell, I don't want to think about my sons sperm. I just like the end result, The babies, lol. I guess she's not thinking of it as sperm, she's thinking of them as future grandchildren.

I also have one other thought. I wonder what the possible resulting kids may think when they realize how they were conceived? I wonder if it will creep them out or will they just not think it was abnormal?

**Nell** · July 19th, 2009, 03:29 PM

Really? You guys are acting like this woman is gonna implant her own son's sperm in her womb and have freaky incest grandkids. She harvested sperm in her grief, as a balm to her heart. She may never use it. It may not even be viable. But who cares? I don't. And I don't blame her at all.

As for is she too old to raise her grandkids? The woman is only 42. Not 80. Ruby should come smack you all for saying that is too old. I think Ruby was around that age when she had her first child.

**Silvahalo** · July 19th, 2009, 03:33 PM

I don't think its perverse and not much different from the woman we read about, (couldn't find the thread), who had her husbands sperm harvested when he died. I think we were all sympathetic to her and I even posted how my husband and I discussed this very thing in the event he should die before we had kids. I told him I felt his family, specifically his mother might take issue with it but I felt it was important to discuss it in the event the unexpected happened.

This case is different that it is her son and not her husband, but I think the motivations are much the same. I would only take issue with her wanting to have them harvested and that she actually be impregnated with her son's sperm to carry her grandchild, her son's off spring. Now that's just getting off on to a strange land I can't really wrap my mind around entirely. Though there are cases of mothers who have carried and birthed their daughters baby due to health reasons. Maybe its just hard to see things like this as acceptable as we have always done things by the norm, but as I have just noted, things happen. Things change.

I can appreciate the complexity of it all but I can't really blame her for wanting to preserve and extend her son's life by taking the seed of life from him. Maybe I'm missing something here, and I'm not saying I would do this for certain in my son's case, or that my husband would even agree to it but I can understand her plight and the desperate act.

This happened here where I live. People here, well, they are very open minded one of the reasons I love this city.

Rest in peace, Nikolas Colton Evans.

**Peeperann** · July 19th, 2009, 03:35 PM

Aw Nell, I never said she is too old. I'm not too old to raise my grandkids if I had to, and i'm 46. But she wants three grandsons. If she spaces them 2 years apart, she'll be pushing 50 when she has the last one, going into her sixty's before they hit teen hood. I know for sure that a lot of people start losing energy in their fortys. I'm just wondering if she's prepared for the amount of energy and time it's going to take.

I'm not really freaked by it. Like I said, I totally understand her emotional need for this. And I agree, better to have the option than to kick herself a few years down the road.

**Thinkgoat** · July 19th, 2009, 04:20 PM

Originally Posted by Peeperann

Aw Nell, I never said she is too old. I'm not too old to raise my grandkids if I had to, and i'm 46. But she wants three grandsons. If she spaces them 2 years apart, she'll be pushing 50 when she has the last one, going into her sixty's before they hit teen hood. I know for sure that a lot of people start losing energy in their fortys. I'm just wondering if she's prepared for the amount of energy and time it's going to take.

I'm not really freaked by it. Like I said, I totally understand her emotional need for this. And I agree, better to have the option than to kick herself a few years down the road.

My mother had my youngest brother when she was 43. Many of my college buddies and myself have young children - we're all over 40. I think that's when parents are at their best...older and more settled down. There are very few stories of parent in the 40's leaving starving children at home while they're out hitting the local bars dancing the night away. Very few stories of shaking a baby to death from a parent over 40, very few stories involving 40 year-olds with children sitting idly by watching the boyfriend beat the shit out of a child. I've known couples in their 40's who were suffering from "empty nest" syndrome and decided to go through the long and arduous adoption process. They all happened to be very selfless people...who didn't count down the days until their own children were grown and out of the house before they could start enjoying their "golden years". It just so happens that some couples view their "golden years" as being retired from their jobs and having a house full of little voices, the pitter-patter of feet, other than their own, and the fresh insights into life that only come from youngsters who haven't been jaded by the hard knocks of life...just yet.

And if this mother wanted to carry her son's child, right on! If it's a decision made by a rational human being, is able to love and support this child, she's a lot better suited than some of the shit I've seen on here.

**sleepinwithangels** · July 19th, 2009, 04:33 PM

I dont find it perverse..a little weird or askew, sure..but not like disgusting..but i also see the legal point of view..

and how do you explain that to a child.."well honey, your daddy was dead before you were even concieved..and your mom is some lady i picked off the internet (or however we pick surrogates these days).."..That might be awful difficult to explain to a child

this is like a weird alternate to people who decide to have more children in an attempt to "replace" (for lack of a better word) one that they have lost. I think that yall are right in the way that maybe shes just trying to keep that option open..but it still is odd.

**Marv** · July 19th, 2009, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by Tazzzz

Even though Nikolas wasn't a organ Donner, she ended up authorizing it so he was.

Evans agreed to donate her son’s organs, which required him to be on life support until 9 p.m. Monday, documents said.

Maybe she had an ulterior motive for agreeing to donate his organs? Such as keeping his sperm 'alive' long enough to be harvested when the court order was granted.

This is a pretty weird case, and Im not sure how I feel about it. How will she explain the circumstances to any resulting kids? Why they will never know a mother or father? She says her son wanted 3 sons and even picked out their names (seriously? how many male children do that?) so is she going to go down the IVF route and screen the embryo's for boys? Or is she willing to accept whatever nature gives her?

I do feel very sorry for her, and can sort of understand why she is doing this. Clinging on to that last little bit of hope, wanting to hold a direct genetic link to her son that she would have if all went to plan.

I just think the whole 'harvesting sperm from dead people' thing is a little bit freaky. After all, we only have their word for it being what the deceased wanted. The dead cant speak up to confirm it.

**Nell** · July 19th, 2009, 04:55 PM

Unless this woman has alot of money laying around it is going to be a challenge to have just one grandkid. We are talking around $7000 for the donor egg, then about $35,000 for the IVF. Now that is if she carries the baby herself. If she gets a surrogate to do it the cost for just that is $85,000 to $150,000. We are talking hundreds of thousands of dollars up to say half a million for the chance at one grandchild.

I honestly think she did this out of desperate love for her son and the loss she feels right now. I doubt that she will be able to really carry this out to the ending of a real child.

And if she does, how to explain it to the child? Just tell them. I think at that point they will just be glad to be alive. How they got here won't matter as much.

http://www.fertilityproregistry.com/.../surrogacy.asp

http://www.advancedfertility.com/ivf...rguarantee.htm

**Thinkgoat** · July 19th, 2009, 05:00 PM

How will she explain the circumstances to any resulting kids? Why they will never know a mother or father?

and how do you explain that to a child.."well honey, your daddy was dead before you were even concieved..and your mom is some lady i picked off the internet

Really? We're in the age where the "conventional" family unit is passe'. How do adoptive parents explain the scenario?

A "mother and father" (especially by reading post after post on here) is more often referred to as the "egg donor" and "penis". A mother and father are people who love and raise a child, not necessilarily someone who "births" a child.

We live in a day where gay couples are able to adopt a child? Why? Because it's been found that they can provide a loving and nurturing home. And rightfully so. If this lady can provide a loving and nurturing home, why not? Too many children are born into homes where they end up dying at the age of 1 month to ??? because the "mother and father" were asswipes.

Sometimes I can't get over the double-standards I read on these pages simply because it doesn't fit into the mold of what "I" would do.

**Thinkgoat** · July 19th, 2009, 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by Nell

Unless this woman has alot of money laying around it is going to be a challenge to have just one grandkid. We are talking around $7000 for the donor egg, then about $35,000 for the IVF. Now that is if she carries the baby herself. If she gets a surrogate to do it the cost for just that is $85,000 to $150,000. We are talking hundreds of thousands of dollars up to say half a million for the chance at one grandchild.

I honestly think she did this out of desperate love for her son and the loss she feels right now. I doubt that she will be able to really carry this out to the ending of a real child.

And if she does, how to explain it to the child? Just tell them. I think at that point they will just be glad to be alive. How they got here won't matter as much.

http://www.fertilityproregistry.com/.../surrogacy.asp

http://www.advancedfertility.com/ivf...rguarantee.htm

It's called prioritizing. A second mortgage. But only when people are willing to go to any lengths for a child do alternatives and resources come to fruition.

**sleepinwithangels** · July 19th, 2009, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by Thinkgoat

Really? We're in the age where the "conventional" family unit is passe'. How do adoptive parents explain the scenario?

A "mother and father" (especially by reading post after post on here) is more often referred to as the "egg donor" and "penis". A mother and father are people who love and raise a child, not necessilarily someone who "births" a child.

We live in a day where gay couples are able to adopt a child? Why? Because it's been found that they can provide a loving and nurturing home. And rightfully so. If this lady can provide a loving and nurturing home, why not? Too many children are born into homes where they end up dying at the age of 1 month to ??? because the "mother and father" were asswipes.

Sometimes I can't get over the double-standards I read on these pages simply because it doesn't fit into the mold of what "I" would do.

I was simply asking, how would a child take this information? I know for me, growing up with one missing parent was sometimes stressful and confusing for me, i often had feelings of inadequacy, as Im sure some adopted children feel. I dont think these children would have a reason to feel the same inadequacy but this is something that doesnt happen too often. Explaining to a child "youre mom and Dad loved you but didnt think they could take care of you" is a far cry from "well gramma went ahead and harvested your daddy's sperm"...its a difficult situation for a lot of us on here to grasp, imagine trying to grasp it as child.

And I was in no way saying that she may be unfit to raise the children, she obviously raised a couple already that seemed to have turned out fine, so the argument that "Too many children are born into homes where they end up dying at the age of 1 month to ??? because the "mother and father" were asswipes." doesnt really fly. This isnt a question of whether this woman is a fit parent to raise children...it is an argument about legal ramifications. what happens if something happens to her, who is there to raise them then? How will she choose a surrogate? Surrogates are expensive will she choose a friend or girlfriend of her son? If so, will this cause custody issues?

Like I said in my first post, I dont think she would actually go through with it and it is a lot like women who have another child to "replace" (again, for lack of a better word) a child they have lost. its an irrational response to the terrible grief she must be feeling.

**Tazzzz** · July 19th, 2009, 05:25 PM

Originally Posted by Thinkgoat

Really? We're in the age where the "conventional" family unit is passe'. How do adoptive parents explain the scenario?

Sometimes I can't get over the double-standards I read on these pages simply because it doesn't fit into the mold of what "I" would do.

Geeze TG , dont bite our heads off for talking about it. Its pretty shocking to hear about a mother harvesting her dead sons sperm. Even the doctors told her no and she had to go get a court order for it. Its allot to take in at once.

The more I see peoples posts about it the less I am freaked out as I originally was. Its still has Octo-Mom writen all over it, or the potential to be that. She has been all over the news, talking to TV shows and news channels, the cats out of the bag and people will be following any kids she has, turning it into a 3 ring circus.

**Tazzzz** · July 19th, 2009, 05:32 PM

Originally Posted by sleepinwithangels

I was simply asking, how would a child take this information? I know for me, growing up with one missing parent was cometimes stressful and confusing for me, i often had feelings of inadequacy, as Im sure some adopted children feel. I dont think these children would have a reason to feel the same inadequacy but this is something that doesnt happen too often. Explaining to a child "youre mom and Dad loved you but didnt think they could take care of you" is a far cry from "well gramma went ahead and harvested your daddy's sperm"...its a difficult situation for a lot of us on here to grasp, imagine trying to grasp it as child.

I was a single father raising my daughter all by myself, Her mom wanted nothing to do with her. She had all kinds off issues about that, and got teased at school for not having a mom like all the other kids did. I would imagine this issue would be a hell of allot worse than that, She would probly have to home school them. And then they would miss out on the whole school thing.

**Marv** · July 19th, 2009, 05:39 PM

Originally Posted by Thinkgoat

Sometimes I can't get over the double-standards I read on these pages simply because it doesn't fit into the mold of what "I" would do.

And I sometimes cant get over the way people pick just a tiny snippet from a post and skew it to suit the needs of their opinion.

I dont believe I said that she was wrong to be doing this, nor did I say that I would never do it so therefore neither should she. Nobody can really know how they would react in a given situation until they have actually experienced it.

I voiced some questions which had occured to me, because I was trying to see where she was coming from, and wondering how I would explain the circumstances if I were in her situation.

I also said that I can understand her motives to some extent, but that I find the whole harvesting sperm from the dead as weird.

And I also think its double-standards to voice ones opinion as though its the only one which matters and the only one that is right, and beat down on others opinions because the dont fit into the mould of 'their' opinion.

**Nell** · July 19th, 2009, 05:40 PM

Jeez, my daughter is going to have the worst time in school if I believe that. I may as well give up now and just have a tutor come in!

(that was huge sarcasm. I am kinda surprised at this thread.)

**Thinkgoat** · July 19th, 2009, 05:50 PM

I wasn't biting anyone's head off nor did I include the name attributed to the quote because I didn't want to personally attack - merely wanted to take an awesome point and elaborate on it for it seems to be such a common reaction to an "uncommon" situation. The "I" was not meant for anyone specifically but "normal parental units" as a whole.

Since when does an opposing view stated as strongly as the mainstream view become a volatile act? Debating an issue is best done when the two sides of a topic don't agree. Kites rise with opposition.

Sorry people. Didn't realize personalities were going to be brought into this topic or I surely wouldn't have stepped in. Perhaps I'll just keep my opposing nose out of shit and allow the general flow to commence unfettered. My bad! Thought this thread was open to anyone - I'll read closer next time.

**myra manes** · July 19th, 2009, 05:55 PM

The situation is definitely odd however, she is only 42 ..
Loads of time to raise 3 kids and is something she obviously wants to do, so who am I to judge?

Question though ..
She said he wanted 3 boys ..
What if the kids turn out female?

Can she specify?

**Silvahalo** · July 19th, 2009, 05:57 PM

I"m actually very pleased how open minded everyone is being about the subject matter. Really, we all stem from different, morals, values, etc. so as I see it even if we do feel a bit uncomfortable about parts or even all of it doesn't make it wrong, its just an opinion everyone has one.

One of the very reasons I really like DD is the diff.'s in opinions so as long as it stays friendly it is WAY better than conformity.

**Peeperann** · July 19th, 2009, 05:59 PM

Nell
I am kinda surprised at this thread.

Me too. Like I said, I know where she is coming from emotionally. I really have no problem with it. I too have an unconventional family. A gay son, and adopted transgendered son, ect. So I do know of what I speak.

I agree with Tazzz, it just brings up a lot of different emotions and questions. The question of ethics, would her son have wanted this? The legal and financial issues. The egg donor or bio mom, which ever you want to call it. Just because it's now possible to do this, should we? I might. I can see wanting to have the biological link to my child. (Although i've never thought it takes DNA to be a family).

I asked Kira what she thought about it a few minutes ago, as Joey is 99 percent going to be an only child. She said she would do it in a heartbeat and screw what other people thought about it. She said she would try to pick a woman who had been like a best friend to him though to be the bio mom. But would do egg donor and surrogate if she had to. She understands the mothers choice and feelings very well.

Have to admit, she surprised me. Although why i'm not sure. She has the most scientific mind of all of my children.

**Marv** · July 19th, 2009, 06:15 PM

Originally Posted by Thinkgoat

Perhaps I'll just keep my opposing nose out of shit and allow the general flow to commence unfettered. My bad! Thought this thread was open to anyone - I'll read closer next time.

Your opposing nose is most welcome TG. I love a good argument. (I mean debate.)

I can be a hot-head when I think someone is having a pop at me, and I thought you were! So I bit.

**Thinkgoat** · July 19th, 2009, 06:29 PM

Ah, I'd NEVER pop at you Marv! You have held a long-standing "fav" spot in my D'D world.

**Peeperann** · July 19th, 2009, 07:01 PM

You know, i've been sitting here alone for the last hour or so, trying to read a book, but my mind keeps wandering back to this thread. I was just thinking about the mother of this young man. And realized that Corey, Holly and Tommy do not have children yet.

So i've been trying to decide what I would do if God forbid anything were to happen to them. I have decided that I probably would harvest my son's sperm and my daughters eggs. Just to know that I'd have the option later on down the road.

My children are gorgeous and have the most amazing minds. I think I would like the option to see those things in a grandchild. To see Holly's quirky sense of humor, her beautiful hazel eyes. Her love for children and animals, in her child.

To see Corey's amazing IQ, sense of humor (which tends to the dark side sometimes, in a good way) his spirit and unrivaled generosity. The energy level and endless patience he exudes. And the quizzle look he gets in his eyes when he thinks i'm being weird.

To see Tommy's unbounded love for his fellow man and woman. His utter freeness in who he is. His beautiful and crooked smile.

I just think it took some time for the idea to sink in. But, now that it has, i'm in total support of this mother. While I still have the same questions I had before, I believe I have a better understanding of where she's at right now.

**ineedanap** · July 20th, 2009, 03:38 PM

I must admit, Silva, I am not so open minded about this. I think it's fucked up. If the request was being made by his wife, that's one thing. But it's by his mother. I get this whole Oedipus vibe from it. It's practically incestuous. How do we know she doesn't intend to carry these kids herself? If she still has a uterus, she's capable. Didn't we have another story exactly like this in the last 6 months where the mother was requesting the harvest??

Creeps.Me.Out.

**Nell** · July 20th, 2009, 03:48 PM

Would you be as creeped out if she was carrying a baby for a child that couldn't have one? It would be the same. Cause i really, really doubt she is going to implant her own son's sperm in her womb. So she would just be a gestational surrogate using someone else's egg. Just like these ladies have done...........

http://www.mc.vanderbilt.edu/reporte...x.html?ID=3238

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/...n4591717.shtml

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/...e-mother_N.htm