A Woman's Weight: The "Last Fronier" In Socially-Acceptable Prejudice?

[Athena]

Considering my own recent encounter involving my weight coming into question during a discussion that had absolutely nothing to do with it, Meghan McCain's recent experience struck a chord with me.



This is Meghan McCain, daughter of John and Cindy McCain and self-described "progressive Republican". Pretty girl, right? Ms. McCain recently found herself in the spotlight after taking issue with Ann Coulter's extremist views, blaming her for perpetuating the negative stereotype of Republican women. She targeted some of Coulter's specific statements (i.e. Jews should be "perfected" and convert to Christianity) and also Coulter's generally negative and hateful demeanor. She made the very reasonable claim that, if Coulter's personality and hate-speech turn her off, it's probably turning off other young, would-be Republicans. McCain says she has no interest in being the mouth piece for the party, but expresses some very valid concerns about the damage the extremist mouth pieces may be doing.

Apparently, this bothered conservative radio host Laura Ingraham, who responded on one of her shows in a mocking, valley-girl tone. Mimicking Ms. McCain, Ingraham said,

O.K., I was really hoping that I was going to get that role in “The Real World,” but then I realized that, well, they don’t like plus-sized models.

Classy, right? Well, Ms. McCain retorted at The Daily Beast in a column titled, "The Politics of Weight". In the end, she had this to say:

My weight was consistently criticized throughout the campaign. Once someone even suggested I go to a plastic surgeon for liposuction. Afterward, I blogged about loving my body and suggested critics focus their insecurities about women’s bodies elsewhere. On the other side, my mother was constantly slammed for being too skinny, so the weight obsession of the media and our culture goes both ways. It also goes to both parties. Hillary Clinton has consistently received criticism for her pantsuits and figure. Whatever someone’s party, these criticisms are quite obviously both wrong and distracting from the larger issues at play.

The question remains: Why, after all this time and all the progress feminists have made, is weight still such an issue? And in Laura’s case, why in the world would a woman raise it? Today, taking shots at a woman’s weight has become one of the last frontiers in socially accepted prejudice.

Preach it, sistah.

In my own recent experience, I found it interesting that multiple individuals "thanked" the post in which my weight was brought into question not once, but twice. Another individual took time to question the motivation for calling me a "little girl" (which, BTW, was aimed at my age rather than my gender, I'm quite confident), but not a single soul bothered to point out the inflammatory suggestions about my figure.

Now, it's not that I'm concerned about that incident. I'm certainly not looking to punish the individual who made the comments or those who supported the comments. As you're all well aware, I am not lacking in the self-esteem department. But I would like to take the opportunity to discuss the acceptance of such a practice.

Let's say it wasn't my weight that was brought into question. If anything had been substituted for "fat" - maybe "black" or "female" or "homosexual" or "crippled" - people would have been outraged. So, why don't we seem to blink an eye when a woman's weight is used against them in a derogatory fashion?

[Nell]

Because as women we not only allow it but condone it. We talk shit on each other about how fat such and such is, fuck she should diet. All the while bitching and whining about our own weights to anyone that will listen. I am guilty, as are most. Until we stop buying Cosmos that blast us for being fat and calling anyone over a size 12 plus sized (are you kidding me!) it will be acceptable to talk about someones weight when it should never be the issue.

And I didn't jump to your defense cause i know you can handle yourself. :D

[totallytoddler]

Because as women we not only allow it but condone it. We talk shit on each other about how fat such and such is, fuck she should diet. All the while bitching and whining about our own weights to anyone that will listen. I am guilty, as are most. Until we stop buying Cosmos that blast us for being fat and calling anyone over a size 12 plus sized (are you kidding me!) it will be acceptable to talk about someones weight when it should never be the issue.

And I didn't jump to your defense cause i know you can handle yourself. :D

Shit Nell...in Hollywood...anyone over a size 6 is considered plus size.....its outrageous! And I cant even talk about that Ann Coulter chick...other than to say I am not a fan of hers!

I think its horrible that Miss McCain's weight even came up during the election...what the hell does that have to do with anything????

[Dakota Valkyrie]

Let's say it wasn't my weight that was brought into question. If anything had been substituted for "fat" - maybe "black" or "female" or "homosexual" or "crippled" - people would have been outraged. So, why don't we seem to blink an eye when a woman's weight is used against them in a derogatory fashion?

I don't know the context it was used in so I must be guilty of overlooking it.

I guess I try to think of it along the same method as other 'mean' words. My recent and profuse use of the word "tard" comes to mind. If you give it power, it will have it.

I use words as swords. If I know it will cut you, and I want to cut you, you will be bleeding. If I do not know you well enough, I will use society's words. Does that mean I believe these things? Rarely. I hate when I whip out my blades only to discover my victim is impervious to them.

There will always be negative words.. either true or not. How we deal with them is what gives them power - or not. The best way to overcome it is to take away the power. If you get all PC about peoples feelings, then it still has power. It's just masked in niceties. "You have such a pretty face".

Oddly, "fat" is not all bad. I love when hubby gets a big fat check. Many people live well on the fat of the land. And if we want to improve things we need to fatten them up. Then we can all be fat and happy. A fat chance is not likely but it is the same as a slim chance.

When I met Athena in real life, the only thing I was struck by was how tall she was... that and the fact her hair looked nothing like her avatar :) I didn't pass judgment, I was just surprised. Otherwise, every other feature from her weight, skin color, hair, to eyes, etc. were just things to notice about her... nothing else.

I figured out really fast that waving swords at Athena is like tossing blades of grass at her. Some things may poke her eyes or stick in her craw, but for the most part are nothing but a nuisance. And if I did slash you with a sword, you hid it well. I'm truly sorry.

I weigh more than a lot of folks, so I consider myself fat and sassy. Don't ruin my delusions.

[Athena]

I use words as swords. If I know it will cut you, and I want to cut you, you will be bleeding. If I do not know you well enough, I will use society's words. Does that mean I believe these things? Rarely. I hate when I whip out my blades only to discover my victim is impervious to them.

Oh, absolutely. I'm not really talking about Three Things. Shit - it gets ugly down here, and I wouldn't have it any other way. I bait people into getting derogatory every chance I get. I'm not even really talking about any specific instance at all. Just the general fact that, while all sorts of minority status is off-limits, a woman's weight isn't one of them.

There will always be negative words.. either true or not. How we deal with them is what gives them power - or not. The best way to overcome it is to take away the power. If you get all PC about peoples feelings, then it still has power. It's just masked in niceties. "You have such a pretty face".

When I met Athena in real life, the only thing I was struck by was how tall she was... that and the fact her hair looked nothing like her avatar :) I didn't pass judgment, I was just surprised. Otherwise, every other feature from her weight, skin color, hair, to eyes, etc. were just things to notice about her... nothing else.

LMAO... It was pretty cute when you made that comment about me not looking like my avatar.

...And if I did slash you with a sword, you hid it well. I'm truly sorry.

"They said you can't hit me anymore!" doesn't work so well over the internet.


But seriously, my whole thing with this is the fact that it's socially-acceptable on the grand scale. When people have associated Obama with, say, being a Muslim just to be derogatory, people were outraged. But, when a person calls a woman fat just to be derogatory, it doesn't garner the "social-injustice" reaction that other, similarly unnecessary and inflammatory comments draw.

And, while I think Nell's onto something, I don't think that explains it entirely. For example, you hear black folk refer to each other as "N*ggers" all the time, from comedy acts to social commentaries. But that commonly draws criticism from outside those circles, and it certainly doesn't suggest it's acceptable for anyone else to do it. But negative comments about a woman's weight aren't limited to just women's circles. Men'll get in on that action, too. Only, in this case, it doesn't really draw the criticism other comments might. The same goes for other derogatory comments about women, I suppose.

It just seems ironic that, while women are, perhaps, the most vocal advocates of the PC movement, they are offered the least protection by it.

[Just my luck sucks]

It was pretty cute when you made that comment about me not looking like my avatar

You don't?

Hmmm--I wonder who I've been stalking in Seattle

[Athena]

You don't?

Hmmm--I wonder who I've been stalking in Seattle

Well, if her head is covered in snakes... Might I recommend you keep a safe distance?

[Dakota Valkyrie]

Personally, I think white males are the least protected species in the PC department.

I get what you're saying. I would never in "polite company" use the word "tard". Tarded is not how my momma raised me. I probably wouldn't comment on weight either in "polite company". Isn't that how most normal people would behave?

I don't think weight is the true issue. It is a portion of the larger issue of "beauty". The comments could just have likely have been made if McCain had a "bad nose", horrid haircut, no boobs, cheap shoes, or chipped nail polish... all things that most folks have at least some control over.

Perhaps even larger it is the way we think of anyone different from the "norm" or the perceived "ideal"?

If an area is something we can theoretically control, is it not in our nature to want to control it if we are dissatisfied? Even if it isn't OUR control but the control of someone else? We comment on the choices of others all the time.

I dunno. Your turn. LOL Brain shifted to neutral due to thinking overload.

[malq]

The question is why are women so vulnerable when someone calls them fat.
It is the last frontier and the only one that hasn't been squashed by the PC police.

[Athena]

Well, white men lack the protection of the PC movement because they don't really need it. They generally enjoy "majority" status. Not too long ago, some friends of mine and I were trading racist jokes. We went around the room a couple times until our friend Casey says, "Are there any jokes about white people?" Cricket chirped for a few seconds before we shrugged and abandoned the topic. People don't really take offensive shots at white men. It wouldn't be prudent. They're the ones who make our laws and sign our paychecks.

Nope, the PC movement was developed to protect minorities and, women, white or otherwise, are in there with the rest of 'em.

And, while I think you're right about it falling under the larger "beauty" umbrella, if you created a pie chart illustrating all the aesthetic qualities ragged on by others, I think we'd see "weight" occupying the biggest slice... by a long shot. Over the years, weight is the only aesthetic quality that's ever been targeted, in my personal experience... even (perhaps especially) when I wasn't even the slightest bit overweight. People use it because they know it's most sensitive. But, by PC logic, isn't that exactly why it should be shunned? And, yet, it isn't.

[Athena]

The question is why are women so vulnerable when someone calls them fat.

I guess it's a chicken-and-the-egg sort of scenario. Do people call women fat because they're more vulnerable about it, or are they more vulnerable about it because it's intended to hurt more?

I can't really say. I roll with a crowd of pretty arrogant women. None of us are particularly vulnerable about our weight. If we were... we might work out, more.

[totallytoddler]

Ok..so I hate to admit I was watching this but....last night I was watching that Larry The Cable Guy Roast on Comedy Central...where they make fun of a particular person. I think there were at least 8 people making fun of him...plus the host. They were all ripping on each other....its all in good fun.

BUT.....Maureen McCormick (Marcia Brady) was there (no clue WHY) but she gave her little roast...which was actually quite funny and cute.
So "Larry" comes up there and was talking about Marcia Brady...and was telling her how he basically jerked off to her growing up and she was his fantasy....and then he said...I saw you backstage and I was like "OMG...its Marcia Brady".....and he goes " I just have one question for you.....WHAT HAPPENED????" Meaning...what the hell happened to you? You were so hot and now you are a fat pig???

I thought it was mean...and you could tell that it really bothered her...but she tried her best to keep it together.

It just REALLY bothers women...we want to be pretty and reassured that we are. Its a touchy subject.....like guys and their ....ahem.....dicks.

What if you were in bed with a girl and she said "OMG...your dick is SO small".....ouch...that would hurt.....makes ya feel like less of a man.
Same thing. IMO

[Dakota Valkyrie]

If we resolve this one, we should get a prize. I want ice cream... I never watch my weight unless I'm on a scale. It is what it is.

[katyk]

Maybe someone said this already (sorry if you did -- I'm at work and skimming, just wanted to comment) but it's because people still see obesity as something that can be controlled. It's a choice to be fat, most people think. I can say, that may be the case sometimes, but not always. If it was a choice, I'd be a size 2. I work out constantly, keep a food journal every day, and see some of the best doctors in the world (center for weight loss at Cedars Sinai) to help me every month. Even THEY can't figure out why I am not losing weight very quickly. Now, I am not as big as most their patients, I am under 200 pounds, but I am still overweight. My boyfriend will go on the same diet as me for support -- lose 15 pounds. It's really frustrating. Women's bodies just doesn't want to let go of fat.

I have a neurological condition that is improved by losing weight, but I am having the hardest time losing it. So imagine my frustration. Therefore, when someone calls me "fat" for any reason, yeah I might just lose it. Thankfully, I haven't been called fat to my face in a very long time. I did have a doctor once announce loudly that I was "obese" while I was in the waiting room. Really? REALLY?? I didn't go back to that bitch.

As far as women vs men, can't we go back to the olden days when having meat on your bones was equivalent to a Playboy play mate??

[Sister Iroz]

Here's a woman that has never had a problem with herself being over weight and she has now written a book for teens called "Beacon Hills High".

NEW YORK (Reuters Life!) - From phone sex operator, to comedian, to large size campaigner, to teen author with a voice for girls struggling to come to terms with their weight.

Mo'Nique Imes Jackson, 40, who is known by her stage name Mo'Nique, has enjoyed a varied career, starring in various TV shows, hosting the BET awards, and penning two books "Skinny Women Are Evil" and the cookbook "Skinny Cooks Can't Be Trusted."

Now twice-married Mo'Nique, who recently launched an online clothing range called Fat Gurl, has branched out into teen fiction with a coming-of-age novel "Beacon Hills High" which she co-wrote with Sherri McGee McCovey.

The novel is about a 13-year-old F.A.T. (Fabulous and Thick) girl who happens to share her last name -- Eboni Michelle Imes.

Mo'Nique, who has four children from her two marriages, spoke to Reuters about her latest venture -- and why fat-ism is wrong:

Q: Why did you decide to go into teen fiction?

A: "I think there are so many issues in college that were not as threatening when we were young and it's helpful to have a coming-of-age book that is real and helps kids understand what is going on."

Q: What type of issues do you mean?

A: "I think race is a huge issue, sexuality, and character and integrity. You normally find those things are handled in cartoons like Elmo and Blue's Clues but there is nothing that is really informative or geared for 13-year-olds."

Q: The lead character of "Beacon Hills High" has your name. Is she you?

A: "Yes. It is based on my years in college and she is learning to be comfortable in her own her skin. But when we were teenagers in school there wasn't so much focus on material things and how much things cost and names. We got excitement over the simple things so Ebony is changed for the times."

Q: Does it deal with weight issues?

A: "Yes, in the book there is a boy who is the superstar footballer and who has a crush on Ebony who is not the typical girl you'd think he would be attracted to. She is a big girl. He's is a bit nervous in letting his friends know about this. We also address weight with a character Deb who has become anorexic. The message is that you can be any size but you must be healthy."

Q: You've always been vocal about size. What is your view?

A: "I have always said I don't care what size you are but be as healthy as you can and love you. I have never said it is fine to be obese. But you are made to feel that if you are fat you have committed the worst sin. I've had crying sessions with women who won't wear short sleeved blouses or short shirts because they are imprisoned by what society says -- that you can't be sexy or have high self esteem if you are big. We want rid of the myths."

Q: Will you continue in teen fiction?

A: "Yes, this is a four-book series. I am also thinking about going into adult fiction with a line of books catering for full figured women. People don't think we have these incredible lives and wonderful sex lives and families but we do."

Q: Have you found yourself discriminated against due to size?

A: "When I first came to Hollywood I thought everyone looked the same. I didn't want to look like every else but to be who I am. I have lost almost 20 pounds (nine kilos) after having two new babies and I want to be as healthy as can be. I want to get to 200 pounds even. Now I'm 240. Some people would still consider that obese but it's fine for me."

http://www.reuters.com/article/lifes...BrandChannel=0

[malq]

I guess it's a chicken-and-the-egg sort of scenario. Do people call women fat because they're more vulnerable about it, or are they more vulnerable about it because it's intended to hurt more?

Well don't you think Society has programmed women to be self conscious of their weight? Most guys prefer a woman with some meat on the bones.

I would say it is the former of your question. Women are programmed to be vulnerable due to modeling, adverts etc.. so it is a weak spot some assholes use to pick at.

[TheMorningStar]

There was a time when overweight women were considered the most beautiful. I wonder if thin women were made fun of at that time.

[Dakota Valkyrie]

I am sure they were. Being scrawny was considered signs of poverty or disease.

[malq]

There was a time when overweight women were considered the most beautiful. I wonder if thin women were made fun of at that time.

I believe that is 100% true. They were look at as sickly and bad breeders.
A robust figure was also a sign of wealth and posterity. Welfare threw that out the window. Cheetos for everyone.

[totallytoddler]

There was a time when overweight women were considered the most beautiful. I wonder if thin women were made fun of at that time.

I think thin women are still made fun of...by women who are NOT thin. I have been a victim on that side....actually BOTH sides.

But being in a bridal party...at the shop and trying on dresses....I was a size 2 at the time....so the fuck what....I am 5'2 ...not currently a 2 :( .....but there was a girl in the party ...who very LOUDLY kept saying shit to me about the dress I chose.....and kept saying "Oh what is that a size 2???"

It was SO embarrassing......I was by no means anorexic....just tiny....and damn I looked good....and it pissed her off. I can understand that.
Now...on the other side of it...not WAY on the other side....but I am nowhere near a 2.....I get comments...especially from my MIL ...thats a WHOLE other story....but she really says some stupid hurtful shit and I want to punch her in the face!
I am by NO means obese....yet one day she thought she should say this to me...."Of all the OBESE people in the world....you really don't look that bad"
Is she fucking kidding me......bitch needs to have her fucking eyes checked.

Now...I have gained some recently and have put my ass on Weight Watchers....but fuck her....she makes me feel like a piece of shit.
She has also said to me "You're not trying to get ALL the way down to a size 6 or anything are you???"
Now what the fuck size does she think I am I wonder????? Fuck her.....I honestly cant stand her....or stupid fucking assholes who say stupid fucking things to perfectly nice people who werent even talking about weight to begin with!

Why is this such an issue??? Because people make it an issue. They make it an issue to say hurtful things to people because they are assholes...whether it be the media or your MIL.....people need to THINK before they open their mouths.
end

[Dakota Valkyrie]

• We cheer on the "heroes" in shows such as Celebrity Fit Club or The Biggest Loser.
• Whole industries are devoted to losing weight and have the answer to the situation... judging by the 100+ ads a day I see for systems or products.
• Every packaged food I eat tells me the calories and makes it clearly known if it is something that will be a weight loss choice.
• An Amazon search of "weight loss" brings up over 70,000 books... with over 400 new releases in the last 3 months.
• Magazines devote articles and full issues to weight loss and dressing to cover your weight.
• Talk shows have full hours devoted to the subject.

Seems mighty important in our culture. Even without jokes, sarcasm, and negative comments, weight is an issue in our lives.

Yes, I understand there are health reasons, but the vast majority of people do not seem to diet for truly health reasons... they do it for "beauty" reasons and claim the virtuous reason of health. Health and beauty are so tied together, they get their own departments in stores.. lumped together synonymously as "Health & Beauty".

I don't recall any time in history that beauty wasn't valued. The definition may have changed, but it has always been valued. If we eliminate weight in the factoring of beauty, wouldn't the stigma just transfer to something else? Is it human nature????

Side Note 1: Just because... a small study: Fat Stigmatization in Television Shows and Movies: A Content Analysis
Includes all the stuff you expect with a study but is easy to read where it counts.

Results: Results indicated that fat stigmatization commentary and fat humor were often verbal, directed toward another person, and often presented directly in the presence of the overweight target. Results also indicated that male characters were three times more likely to engage in fat stigmatization commentary or fat humor than female characters.
http://www.nature.com/oby/journal/v1...by200784a.html

Side Note 2: TT reminded me of this segment from "What Would You Do?". A "momzilla" in a bridal shop. One scene with a skinny bride and one with a not-skinny bride.
http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=7053103

[joo]

Many women feel compelled to make negative comments about other women's bodies, period. It's a matter of their own insecurity regarding their looks causing them to insult others to make themselves feel better. It took me until I was about 20 to top 100 pounds and all I heard as a teenager was "OMG. You're so skinny. Don't you ever eat? You're anorexic. Blah blah blah." I don't understand what makes people think it's okay to make snide remarks about other people's weight in one way or the other.

[Kalehue]

Maybe someone said this already (sorry if you did -- I'm at work and skimming, just wanted to comment) but it's because people still see obesity as something that can be controlled. It's a choice to be fat, most people think. I can say, that may be the case sometimes, but not always. If it was a choice, I'd be a size 2. I work out constantly, keep a food journal every day, and see some of the best doctors in the world (center for weight loss at Cedars Sinai) to help me every month. Even THEY can't figure out why I am not losing weight very quickly. Now, I am not as big as most their patients, I am under 200 pounds, but I am still overweight. My boyfriend will go on the same diet as me for support -- lose 15 pounds. It's really frustrating. Women's bodies just doesn't want to let go of fat.

I have a neurological condition that is improved by losing weight, but I am having the hardest time losing it. So imagine my frustration. Therefore, when someone calls me "fat" for any reason, yeah I might just lose it. Thankfully, I haven't been called fat to my face in a very long time. I did have a doctor once announce loudly that I was "obese" while I was in the waiting room. Really? REALLY?? I didn't go back to that bitch.

As far as women vs men, can't we go back to the olden days when having meat on your bones was equivalent to a Playboy play mate??

I think this is so true. People do think that weight is something we have control over. As someone who never struggled with my weight until a few years ago, I remember a friend once saying, "Oh! I wish I could lose weight!" and I thought, "Well just quit eating so much!" God is punishing me now!!

I was on steroids for rheumatoid arthritis and gained about 35#. ALL I could think about was my next meal. Jeez... But it was okay because I knew that it would be EASY to take off the weight once I was off the steroids. Haha. What a joke... It seems like I practically have to starve myself to take off even a few pounds. I am very active and *so* careful about what I eat, but I can't manage to drop but about 10 of the 35 or so pounds that I put on.

My brother and I bike and climb mountains, etc. -- and we used to run together (had to give it up because of the R.A., not because of my weight!). We were summiting a mountain in Colorado last year and I was moving noticably slower than in the past and my brother said, "Man! You're so slow because you've gotten so fat." Ewww....OUCH! Talk about words being swords.

Now it seems that my weight is constantly on my mind. My best friend once told me that a woman's self-esteem is inversely proportional to her weight. I hate it, but I think it's true (at least in my case).

I do have to say that my dear husband never seems to notice. When I say something about my weight, he says he thinks I'm beautiful. What a great guy! I will love him forever. :-)

[Silvahalo]

I think its because woman have been programmed since very young. I almost entirely blame the media as it is the forefront of all the bullshit propaganda that comes into our homes from selling food to buying clothes.

Mothers are in a very good positions to influence their young daughters how to respect their bodies and teach them about true beauty. Unfortunately, a lot do just the opposite, sometimes without even knowing it. My own mother who modeled as a young lady, shaped and formed my idea about my body, self image, self esteem....weight in general as a young girl and most was not positive. She would often compare me to my younger sister who was always very thin and really pretty. I was not an over weight child, very average in weight and very petite. Still I was often made to feel that I could oh look so much cuter if I'd just keep my weight optimal. WTF is optimal?

All my life I have struggled to feel pretty and believe that my body is beautiful just the way it is. It coincided very much with the timing on my self-esteem and what I was going through at the time in my life. Today, I am about 30 lbs over weight, not considered obese, but for a very tiny person, every pound counts. Even though I am not entirely happy with my body right now, I have probably never been so comfortable in my own skin as I am now. Ironic. In college when I was in optimal physical fitness, my happiness did not follow how small my waist shrunk. I would say I was more depressed? How is that. I think it was the fact that I wasn't seeing past skin deep. My weight should have always been secondary to the person I was trying to build inside of me. I know that now and appreciate it more than I ever have.

If I had a girl, and I wish I had one, to dispel all the stupid, destructive ways young girls are made to think and behave. I would teach her as I have my son, to respect his body for the miracle it is and to make his owns decisions about beauty and attractiveness and not bend to the pressures around him. One way to do that is to not associate with people that are shallow and who's idea on beauty are based on the numbers you see as you step on the scale.
I even told my own sister that she better star looking me in the face rather than giving me the once over, or she could just forget about visiting me. She's an athlete, very fit, but I think she mostly lives this life style because she's terrified of gaining weight. I told her once how liberating it is to love oneself even when you're 30 lbs over weight. She looked at me puzzled. I said, I don't see my weight as a bad or even good thing, it simply just is. I'm still me either way, and I happen to love the person staring back at me, fit or fat.

[Just my luck sucks]

I've been on both sides of the fence. As a child I was heavy and to make matters worse, my nick name rhymed with "fanny." 'shanni, shanni big fat fanny..." I can still hear the taunts. The memories no longer make me cringe.

In my first marriage, food got to be the only thing I could control. I became anorexic --5'5" and just barely hitting 100 lbs. Thing was, I couldn't see that I was too thin--I look back at photos now and shudder, bones sticking out, clothes hanging off me and no butt or boobs whatsoever.

I'm a healthy size now at 5'5" and 128-135. I don't watch my weight and at my age am pretty damn happy to eat what I want, when I want. So what if I change a size or two? As long as I feel good and am happy in my skin I don't care about my weight --or the weight of others for that matter, well except, when I'm on a airplane and have to deal with someone's spill over--not because of their weight so much, it's just that I hate to be touched by strangers.

[Dakota Valkyrie]

This topic would so different if the original comment had been positive. How come only negative talk on this (or any other issue) is a problem? If weight is OK to talk about in a positive light, then obviously there has to be a negative aspect.

I see no way we can focus on a positive aspect of anything and ignore the negative. Human nature. I can only control how I personally feel about the issue and how I react to those things.

When I think about this, I want to run screaming because I really don't want to live in an always sunshine and glitter graphics world. (there I go being negative)

It goes back to my argument about giving it power. If the issue is not given power, it has none. If every woman felt this way, we could rejoice in being fat or skinny or neither and laugh at the jokes and not be cut by the barbs. There are topics that it seems acceptable to do this in so why can't this be one?

"If you don't have anything good to say, dont' say anything". If people stop talking when I enter the room, I will know something's up. :)

[sanityslipping]

not[/U] how my momma raised me. I probably wouldn't comment on weight either in "polite company". Isn't that how most normal people would behave?

You keep "polite" company? Or rather "polite" company keeps w the likes of you?

[Athena]

This topic would so different if the original comment had been positive. How come only negative talk on this (or any other issue) is a problem? If weight is OK to talk about in a positive light, then obviously there has to be a negative aspect.

I see no way we can focus on a positive aspect of anything and ignore the negative. Human nature. I can only control how I personally feel about the issue and how I react to those things.

When I think about this, I want to run screaming because I really don't want to live in an always sunshine and glitter graphics world. (there I go being negative)

It goes back to my argument about giving it power. If the issue is not given power, it has none. If every woman felt this way, we could rejoice in being fat or skinny or neither and laugh at the jokes and not be cut by the barbs. There are topics that it seems acceptable to do this in so why can't this be one?

"If you don't have anything good to say, dont' say anything". If people stop talking when I enter the room, I will know something's up. :)

I feel you, but we're not talking about rational discussion. We're talking about under-handed jabs, and the fact that some of these jabs are socially-acceptable while others are not.

Giving it power is only one side of the equation, in my opinion. I believe intent factors in almost equally. When someone says something in a public venue with the clear intent to be cruel, what do you do to not give it power when the whole world is looking at you for a response?

[Dakota Valkyrie]

If the vast majority of people do not give something power, few use it with malicious intent. They can try, but they end up looking stupid. You don't need to answer it.

I hate white cars. They are nothing more than mobile snow banks around here and awful looking after a couple trips on a gravel road.

I could bash Athena about her white car.. make degoratory comments, etc... Because her choice of a white car is her choice, I would be the one ending up looking silly and desperate for trying to use it to be cruel to her.

It gets into the need to be cruel... about anything.

[El Supremo]

Because as women we not only allow it but condone it.

Just wanted to throw my $0.02 in on this one:

I agree with you to an extent, Nell, but I do not think that it is women who are primarily to blame. There's a lot of social conditioning from advertisers, television, magazines (as you mentioned), Hollywood, etc., that tell women no man will want them if they have cellulite, love handles, or anything beyond being a skeleton. The obvious reason for this is to make money. Women are trained from birth to idolize skinny models, movie stars, and pageant queens, to watch what they eat, all that crap. Women criticizing other women for their weight seems to me to be more of a symptom of this problem than the root cause. I blame anyone who stands to make money selling gym memberships, diet pills, or any other product/service that preys on the insecurities of women (or men). Same goes for companies selling razor blades and depilatories, tooth-whitening systems, and so on.

I will definitely draw a distinction between healthy and unhealthy weights. Eating disorders work both ways, from anorexia to gluttony, and everything in between. If you are of healthy mind, I believe the body will reflect that. Excessive eating out of guilt, shame, or depression is a bad thing, and avoiding food because of body image problems is also a bad thing.

It's really a damn shame that we can't, as a society, shun the ideals that are forced upon us all our lives, and try to be happy with who we are. I have never been very attracted to skinny women myself. I find it disturbing and sometimes repulsive. The funny thing is that 50 years ago, our ideals as a society were completely different. Take a look at Marilyn Monroe (size 14, I 've heard) and tell me if she would be considered too fat by today's standards. Shame.

I know there was an actual point to writing all this when I started, but I have since forgotten it. Just accept it as a rant, I guess. :)