Obama Seeks to Help Mexico End Violence

**DarkPrincess** · March 8th, 2009, 12:01 PM

(CNN) -- President Obama and Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman Adm. Michael Mullen on Saturday discussed how the U.S. military can assist Mexico in addressing growing violence from drug cartels, according to a military official.

Mexican authorities discovered three headless bodies in Tijuana on Tuesday.

The conversation, which Obama initiated within hours of Mullen's return to the United States from a visit to Mexico City, underscores the growing concern with which the United States views the situation.
"The president was eager to get the chairman's observations on what he found out," the official told CNN.
The president expressed interest in military capabilities that the U.S. has that could help Mexican forces, including intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance technology, the official said.
Mexico's military and police have been embroiled in increasingly violent clashes with cartels, which are battling among themselves for control over an ever-growing market in the United States.
This week, a U.S. citizen was among the three decapitated bodies found in Tijuana, Mexican authorities said Saturday. Growing drug violence has made beheadings in Tijuana, Juarez and other Mexican towns more commonplace over the past year.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/americ...ies/index.html

**MichaelJCheaney** · March 8th, 2009, 12:21 PM

I find it most interesting that now this is somehow OUR problem.

For years and years the Mexican government has told its people if you want a better life, go to the United States. And for years and Years that is exactly what they have done.

The despair and the poverty is exactly what caused the drug violence and allowed the cartels to get a foot hold in the first place.

Couple that scenario with a 2300 mile long unsecured border, and the unfettered access that it gives not only the immigrants, but the drug couriers as well, and somehow Mexico is somehow surprised that this is happening?

**DarkPrincess** · March 8th, 2009, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by MichaelJCheaney

I find it most interesting that now this is somehow OUR problem.

It's not somehow our problem, it IS our problem. Aside from the drug issue, Mexicans are going into our states on their border, stalking people they think have money, kidnapping them, and demanding ransom. They're kidnapping our citizens from our own country. I'd say that's our problem.

**moonlilly1981** · March 8th, 2009, 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by DarkPrincess

It's not somehow our problem, it IS our problem. Aside from the drug issue, Mexicans are going into our states on their border, stalking people they think have money, kidnapping them, and demanding ransom. They're kidnapping our citizens from our own country. I'd say that's our problem.

I have to agree with DarkPrincess on this one. These cartels are not nice people and the violence is spilling over into our country. We have more power, resources, and money then mexico. This is what we need to do to protect our people.

On the other hand with the immigration issue that was brought up I know from seeing friends experince the problems with immigration. Its not as easy to immigrate to this country like it was when my grandfather and greatgrandfather came over here. As the united states is the melting pot of the world how can we sit back and say okay we dont want your sick and poor. If it wasnt for immigration we wouldnt be here.

**MichaelJCheaney** · March 8th, 2009, 12:48 PM

I agree. (I also see this thread getting moved into three things pretty quick)

But....(I SWORE to myself that I was not going to bring Bush into this but now I have too FUCK!!!!!)

4-5 years ago when Bush first proposed putting the National Guard along the Border and beefing up INS, all we heard from the people in DC is how mean and inhumane we were being as a country.

And one of the potential benefits would have been our ability to potentially stop the Violence in Juarez, Tijuana, Brownsville, and all the other border cities, by being back ups either to Mexican Troops or Local Police Forces on the US side.

Now that Obama is in power he wants us to go in there and help them out. I realize this is potentially a National Security issue.

But why so much more now than in the past?

Hell I was in Juarez for the Millennium celebration, and was told way back then, YOU DO NOT WALK AROUND JUAREZ ALONE PERIOD!!!

So it was happening back then......But in order for something like this to work it entails complete cooperation from the Mexico Government as well as the United States......

I don't see that happening.

**malq** · March 8th, 2009, 12:58 PM

Close the border.

Why are we messing around with Mexico? We haven't even got out of the latest Iraq mess. It is time to turn inward and fix our own problems. As far as the cartels and drugs... There are other ways to deal with that. Take the money out of drugs.
And that open immigration crap, we will feed your poor sounded great when we had the room and resources.

**moonlilly1981** · March 8th, 2009, 01:00 PM

It wouldnt have been doable 4-5 years ago anyways. Not with Bush sending our guard over seas to fight a war that most americans didnt and still dont belive in.

From what I understood and my opinion is with posting guards on the border it was to stop immigrants from sneaking into the united states. Drugs and gang violence is going to continue to increase unless we do something about it. MS13 has spread through the states like wild fire. If we were told upfront hey we need to secure our borders because of the drug cartels and gang violence seeping into the united states we the people more then likely would have been more inclined to have it done. But where were the troops going to come from? Our troops are being over burdened as it is by us being in Afganistant and Iraq at the same time.

**Harley_Tech** · March 8th, 2009, 01:05 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_Wall

Problem solved.

R

**MichaelJCheaney** · March 8th, 2009, 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by moonlilly1981

It wouldnt have been doable 4-5 years ago anyways. Not with Bush sending our guard over seas to fight a war that most americans didnt and still dont belive in.

From what I understood and my opinion is with posting guards on the border it was to stop immigrants from sneaking into the united states. Drugs and gang violence is going to continue to increase unless we do something about it. MS13 has spread through the states like wild fire. If we were told upfront hey we need to secure our borders because of the drug cartels and gang violence seeping into the united states we the people more then likely would have been more inclined to have it done. But where were the troops going to come from? Our troops are being over burdened as it is by us being in Afganistant and Iraq at the same time.

MS 13 is a gang from South America, not from Mexico.

I think Bush and the Republicans should have tried selling it the way that Moon described it. And that unfortunately was the big downfall to the whole plan. But the fact is that 90 percent of the American population really couldn't care less about the drug violence. They only care that Hispanics are allowed unfettered access to the United States.

And I agree with Malq.

Shut it down and tell them to stay the hell out.

**DarkPrincess** · March 8th, 2009, 01:12 PM

Originally Posted by MichaelJCheaney

I agree. (I also see this thread getting moved into three things pretty quick)

But....(I SWORE to myself that I was not going to bring Bush into this but now I have too FUCK!!!!!)

4-5 years ago when Bush first proposed putting the National Guard along the Border and beefing up INS, all we heard from the people in DC is how mean and inhumane we were being as a country.

And one of the potential benefits would have been our ability to potentially stop the Violence in Juarez, Tijuana, Brownsville, and all the other border cities, by being back ups either to Mexican Troops or Local Police Forces on the US side.

Now that Obama is in power he wants us to go in there and help them out. I realize this is potentially a National Security issue.

But why so much more now than in the past?

Hell I was in Juarez for the Millennium celebration, and was told way back then, YOU DO NOT WALK AROUND JUAREZ ALONE PERIOD!!!

So it was happening back then......But in order for something like this to work it entails complete cooperation from the Mexico Government as well as the United States......

I don't see that happening.

It's getting too bad, that's why now. Like I said, it's spilling into our country. National guard is nothing. If I were running the show, I would give their president an ultimatum. You either allow our people to help you fight this problem. or I will send notice for all Americans to return to the United States at once. Americans will not be allowed to travel to your country for vacation or otherwise. I will put tanks and troops at the border. No one will be allowed in or out. Anyone who tries to cross the border will be shot. The time for playing games with Mexico is over. Someone needs to pressure their government into cutting the crap and getting serious. They're corrupt and we know it. Obama is more diplomatic than me, thank God. lol I'm curious to see what he'll do.

**DarkPrincess** · March 8th, 2009, 01:15 PM

Originally Posted by malq

Close the border.

Why are we messing around with Mexico? We haven't even got out of the latest Iraq mess. It is time to turn inward and fix our own problems. As far as the cartels and drugs... There are other ways to deal with that. Take the money out of drugs.
And that open immigration crap, we will feed your poor sounded great when we had the room and resources.

If a country on our border falls apart, it is our issue. How easy do you think it would be for terrorists to come into our country through Mexico? Meanwhile we're worried about countries half way around the world? At this point, I agree with you. Close the border. After I take my vacation in Cancun of course.

**MichaelJCheaney** · March 8th, 2009, 01:17 PM

Originally Posted by DarkPrincess

It's getting to bad, that's why now. Like I said, it's spilling into our country. National guard is nothing. If I were running the show, I would give their president an ultimatum. You either allow our people to help you fight this problem. or I will send notice for all Americans to return to the United States at once. Americans will not be allowed to travel to your country for vacation or otherwise. I will put tanks and troops at the border. No one will be allowed in or out. Anyone who tries to cross the border will be shot. The time for playing games with Mexico is over. Someone needs to pressure their government into cutting the crap and getting serious. They're corrupt and we know it. Obama is more diplomatic than me, thank God. lol I'm curious to see what he'll do.

Juarez and Tijuana from what I understand already have travel advisories, which really don't do anything but none the less they are in place......

And I love your thinking. Because that is exactly what should have been happening years ago, like back in the 1980's.

We have allowed Mexico to basically turn a blind eye to problems in their yard, which has spilled over into our yard, and because of it we have the same problems they do.

**Harley_Tech** · March 8th, 2009, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by DarkPrincess

If a country on our border falls apart, it is our issue. How easy do you think it would be for terrorists to come into our country through Mexico?

Do you somehow believe it is not easy for them right now?

Our borders are nothing more than a line on a map. The NIS and Border Patrol are nothing more than mannequins for the uniforms.

R

**Silvahalo** · March 8th, 2009, 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by malq

Close the border.

Why are we messing around with Mexico? We haven't even got out of the latest Iraq mess. It is time to turn inward and fix our own problems. As far as the cartels and drugs... There are other ways to deal with that. Take the money out of drugs.
And that open immigration crap, we will feed your poor sounded great when we had the room and resources.

Unfortunately, this is our problem too. If there wasn't such a demand for drugs in the U.S. this problem wouldn't be so bad. The problem clearly comes from both sides.

You can send as many troops or other reinforcements all you want, but there will still be a demand for the drugs here. I'd love to see an effective way to"take the money out of drugs"....hmm, have the government run it? make it available at your local Walgreen or private doctor? seriously, I think you got a point, just not sure how to make that happen.

I'm from El Paso, the border town with Juarez. I left that dump hole for a reason, I'd never go back there again. The idea that these mother fuckers are killing one another brings a smile to my face, a self-cleaning machine...fine with me, but the innocents involved just angers me to no end. Innocent families are killed off every day, entire families mind you, all in the name of drugs and the money that goes with that. I say kill all the bastards.... they are useless, waste of space. It's nightmare of a mess. The government and police are corrupt. Money buys everything, police aren't paid for shit so they are given the option to either follow the cartel and their demands or be killed along with family, really what choice do they have?

I think its about time this is taken more seriously, I can move my ass as far away from the border, but still the problem just keeps infecting the states farther in, makes me want to move abroad I tell you, and I thought I'd never even consider leaving the states all together.

**moonlilly1981** · March 8th, 2009, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by MichaelJCheaney

MS 13 is a gang from South America, not from Mexico.

Yes MS 13 is actually from El Salvador. But how do you think they are getting here? Through mexico of course

I will leave the immigration issue alone. My mexican friends have a soft spot in my heart always.

We cant build a giant wall to keep them out cause who will build it? A good majority of our military is over seas fighting a war that isnt going to end. We had the option of using vigilante's but thats a really bad idea in itself. So the only good plan I can see is the one that Obama is trying to put in place. Help mexico fight their drug problem. Its a win win for the US.

**Just my luck sucks** · March 8th, 2009, 01:37 PM

If I were running the show, I would give their president an ultimatum. You either allow our people to help you fight this problem. or I will send notice for all Americans to return to the United States at once. Americans will not be allowed to travel to your country for vacation or otherwise.

The number of US citizens that now live in Mexico has grown from 200,000 in the mid 1990's to over 600,000 today, and shows no sign of slowing down.

**DarkPrincess** · March 8th, 2009, 01:37 PM

Originally Posted by MichaelJCheaney

Juarez and Tijuana from what I understand already have travel advisories, which really don't do anything but none the less they are in place......

And I love your thinking. Because that is exactly what should have been happening years ago, like back in the 1980's.

We have allowed Mexico to basically turn a blind eye to problems in their yard, which has spilled over into our yard, and because of it we have the same problems they do.

Yeah, travel advisories are bullshit. We absolutely should have done something about this years ago, but our government never seems to learn. Like WWII where it took Japan bombing us to get involved. Of course, we were making money hand over fist selling weapons to both sides but that's another story. I like my plan too, but I also know I am too quick to play hardball with people. Some diplomatic finesse is required in these situations and Obama has that going for him, if nothing else.

**DarkPrincess** · March 8th, 2009, 01:40 PM

Originally Posted by Harley_Tech

Do you somehow believe it is not easy for them right now?

Our borders are nothing more than a line on a map. The NIS and Border Patrol are nothing more than mannequins for the uniforms.

R

No Harley, that is exactly what I'm saying. The shit has hit the fan already. I know how easy it is, we need to stop this now.

**DarkPrincess** · March 8th, 2009, 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by Just my luck sucks

The number of US citizens that now live in Mexico has grown from 200,000 in the mid 1990's to over 600,000 today, and shows no sign of slowing down.

They're free to get killed. If the president gives you notice to return to the United States because we're closing the border, you will not be allowed in, and you choose to stay in Mexico, that's fine. If you get into trouble down there, there will be no one at the consulate to help you. You understand that you will be fucked. Like Americans that choose to stay in areas of the Middle East that we bomb. We issue a warning saying get the fuck out now or face death. You stay, it's your problem.

**MichaelJCheaney** · March 8th, 2009, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by DarkPrincess

Yeah, travel advisories are bullshit. We absolutely should have done something about this years ago, but our government never seems to learn. Like WWII where it took Japan bombing us to get involved. Of course, we were making money hand over fist selling weapons to both sides but that's another story. I like my plan too, but I also know I am too quick to play hardball with people. Some diplomatic finesse is required in these situations and Obama has that going for him, if nothing else.

Thats my problem too. I seem to have this all or nothing attitude when it comes to things like this.

But the thing that a lot of people don't seem to realize is that in a lot of cases a hardball attitude, tends to get more things done faster.

Diplomacy is just 2 people sitting down and basically saying "I couldn't care less what YOU want to do my way is better" and going around in circles and chasing their tails, and getting nothing done.

In my opinion at least.

**DarkPrincess** · March 8th, 2009, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by MichaelJCheaney

Thats my problem too. I seem to have this all or nothing attitude when it comes to things like this.

But the thing that a lot of people don't seem to realize is that in a lot of cases a hardball attitude, tends to get more things done faster.

Diplomacy is just 2 people sitting down and basically saying "I couldn't care less what YOU want to do my way is better" and going around in circles and chasing their tails, and getting nothing done.

In my opinion at least.

It can be that way, but diplomacy usually should be tried first. The only thing here is this, as you said, has been going on forever. I think the United States gives too many warnings and chances to nations that clearly don't care what we say.

**Dakota Valkyrie** · March 8th, 2009, 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by moonlilly1981

Its not as easy to immigrate to this country like it was when my grandfather and greatgrandfather came over here. As the united states is the melting pot of the world how can we sit back and say okay we dont want your sick and poor. If it wasnt for immigration we wouldnt be here.

Back then we had the jobs and room for them... neither of which is true now.

Originally Posted by moonlilly1981

It wouldnt have been doable 4-5 years ago anyways. Not with Bush sending our guard over seas to fight a war that most americans didnt and still dont belive in.

According to testimony given to Senate Appropriations Committee in May 2008, we had 61% of the Guard and Reserves available for deployment. This came from the chiefs of the Army, Navy, Air and Marine Corps Reserves and the Army and Air National Guard and National Guard Bureau chiefs.

Just sayin'

**Pete Bondurant** · March 8th, 2009, 03:45 PM

Legalise the cocaine.....my dealer has disappeared!

**MichaelJCheaney** · March 8th, 2009, 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by Pete Bondurant

Legalise the cocaine.....my dealer has disappeared!

I'm thinking I could send one or two down your way Pete......

**malq** · March 8th, 2009, 05:45 PM

All good points above.
I wonder why Obama is attacking this problem now. he is biting off too much at once. I believe it is a red herring. The real issue is fixing Americas economy.
Thats what everyone is concerned about right now.
The bogus stimulus package is not the answer. That will be apparent soon if not already. It will get worse before it gets better.
'Lets work on Mexico'.... LOL Obama! Fix something first.

Edit
I might add, this might be a ruse to keep the #s up on the military and keep the machine going. History shows that once we come in we cannot leave in time. The feds have a hard time reducing #s on anything.

**TheMorningStar** · March 8th, 2009, 05:49 PM

Name one time in all history when a border wall has really worked.

**malq** · March 8th, 2009, 05:57 PM

Originally Posted by TheMorningStar

Name one time in all history when a border wall has really worked.

Ok I'll agree with that.
BUT..
Has there been a time in history where a wealthy nation and a poor country have shared borders and it stayed that way? No. It used to be the wealthy would conquer the weaker nation and take it. Now we are so F&^$ing diplomatic the weak one sucks the wealthy one down. I say make a real border.
It will take some time but Americans will learn how to fill jobs with our own.

**Harley_Tech** · March 8th, 2009, 07:16 PM

Originally Posted by TheMorningStar

Name one time in all history when a border wall has really worked.

Any time snipers were positioned on the towers.

R

**TheMorningStar** · March 8th, 2009, 08:31 PM

Originally Posted by Harley_Tech

Any time snipers were positioned on the towers.

R

Like The Berlin Wall? It is no more. It has ceased to be. In my book that means it was a failure.

The only border wall I can think of that was remotely successful was Hadrian's wall which was built by the Romans and was "the most heavily fortified border in the Empire" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadrian's_Wall
Even that was eventually abandoned after sucking out lots of resources.

History teaches us that walls do not really work. Having sex with each other on the other hand........