Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: Overly Reactionary Society

  1. #1
    President gprime's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Grand Rapids
    Posts
    727
    Post Thanks / Like

    Overly Reactionary Society

    I just had the chance to rewatch an episode of Boston Public (s1e20) that I hadn't seen in years. The hour-long tv drama is set in a Boston Public school, and addresses a number of contemporary issues, usually through the viewpoint of the staff. This particular episode centered largely around a feeble student, Anthony, who was a social outcast that often faced verbal and physical abuse. To cut the story short, he is forced, againist his will and the advice of the Principal, to switch high schools, as he is deemed a threat. This was based on his vague statement of "you'll regret it" uttered to a girl who declined him a date, and a notebook found in a past episode listing the names of students he would like to kill.

    Of course, context is important. The phrase uttered is too vague to tell anything. It could, as he suggests, mean that some day she will wish she'd not turned him down after he is rich and successful. The implication that it is threatening and violent is overly presumptuous. The superintendent reasons that the notebook makes that a threat. She ignores the fact that the it was relevant to a story he was writing, the writing was his way of coping with the unceasing abuse he recieved, and that he and neither the means nor the intention of ever physically harming another person.

    Now, why do I bring this episode up? Well, I think that the reaction witnessed in it is reflective of a rarely disucssed, but nonetheless critically important, contemporary issue in this country. They talk about Columbine, but for our purposes 9/11 is the better turning point. Based on one event, strict policies get enforced. The rights of the individual become of no consequence, and no heed is paid to discovering the truth. Instead, rash decisions with lasting negative consequences get enacted, all under the guise of security, or the protection of the others. This type of thought it alarming because it ignores liberty, understanding, and justice. And because it is becoming increasingly widespread, we just react without thinking.

    I can think in my own life of numerous occasions where this has played out. The best example was also in high school, albeit in a private one. I went to a pluralistic religious school, where Orthodox Jews, were in the extreme minority. Having been part of that minority at the time, and one of the even smaller subset willing and informed enough to explain/defend it, I often found myself in religious arguments. In one case, I found myself saying something along the lines of "The Reform standards are not in keeping with Jewish law. It is another heretical sect, for which there can be no redemption. Anybody who practices it and does not become a ba'al teshuva will be denied entry into Olam Ha'baah, and shall share the same fate as the goyim." Of course as an Atheist I now realize how stupid that was. But that statement, which made no threat to an individual, instead merely taking a controversial religious position that offended others, caused me to be called before the headmaster. Apparently, that statement and others like it left "several" people feeling threatened. They actually suggested that they were considering expelling me. It was only after much protest, parental involvement, and the threat of legal recourse that I was let be. I had done nothing wrong. But because I set off some bells by saying "radical" things, engaging in "anti-social behavior" (following Jewish law), and being part of a "fringe" minority (Orthodox students), my future was almost completely ruined. Would that have been fair?

    Ultimately, this sort of shift, where such paranoia, overreaction, and irrationality rule are becoming far too common. This is very alarming with respect to the future prospects of this nation, and anywhere else where this tyrannical reality catches on.
    Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy.
    - HL Mencken

  2. Thanks 1 Member(s) thanked for this post
  3. #2
    AKA Dr. Salvador
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    196
    Post Thanks / Like
    whats worse:

    thinking you are paranoid or knowing you should be?............................

  4. #3
    Ream Me Up, Scotty swivel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    The mountains of North Carolina. Hermit country.
    Posts
    3,893
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    13
    Quote Originally Posted by I am Legend View Post
    whats worse:

    thinking you are paranoid or knowing you should be?............................
    People usually become paranoid when they limit themselves to only two options, both of which are bad.

    Seriously.





    gprime, tell me something, when was our world LESS reactionary? I don't disagree with your description of the human condition, but when you imply that this is a recent, societal phenomenon, and that the world is going to shit, it rings a tad hallow.

    Look what European kings did as they shifted to Protestantism or Catholicism. Massive purges, police states. What about the French Revolution and the guillotine? Or Cromwell's insanity? How about the Inquisition, the burning of witches. Or Stalin's purges. Or the entire history of the Roman Empire.

    What you describe is accurate, and there are evolutionary advantages that have resulted in our over-reacting to threat. But this is neither a new problem, nor a worsening one. I would argue quite the opposite, in fact.
    Last edited by swivel; February 9th, 2008 at 09:10 AM.

  5. Thanks 1 Member(s) thanked for this post
  6. #4
    Grand Marshal ells9824's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    349
    Post Thanks / Like
    Look what European kings did as they shifted to Protestantism or Catholicism. Massive purges, police states. What about the French Revolution and the guillotine? Or Cromwell's insanity? How about the Inquisition, the burning of witches. Or Stalin's purges. Or the entire history of the Roman Empire.

    I think we're supposed to be more civilized than that now, but are we really? In schools we have students who should not be in school beating up teachers, and students who want to be IN school tossed out for drawing guns and hugging their friends.

    The people who make the most noise are still the ones being pandered to, and the ones who take the quieter route still get walked on.

  7. #5
    Ream Me Up, Scotty swivel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    The mountains of North Carolina. Hermit country.
    Posts
    3,893
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    13
    Quote Originally Posted by ells9824 View Post
    Look what European kings did as they shifted to Protestantism or Catholicism. Massive purges, police states. What about the French Revolution and the guillotine? Or Cromwell's insanity? How about the Inquisition, the burning of witches. Or Stalin's purges. Or the entire history of the Roman Empire.

    I think we're supposed to be more civilized than that now, but are we really? In schools we have students who should not be in school beating up teachers, and students who want to be IN school tossed out for drawing guns and hugging their friends.

    The people who make the most noise are still the ones being pandered to, and the ones who take the quieter route still get walked on.
    That seems awfully anecdotal and vague. Are these cases in the hundreds? Thousands? Tens of thousands?

    I look around a see a society that has never been so tolerant and forgiving. For instance, people with no sense of history love bemoaning our political fanaticism, that our country has never been so divided. Forgetting even the Civil War, look at how politicians have changed their treatment of one another.

    In the 19th century, politicians shot each other in the street over differences, and it was OK. In the 20th century, politicians physically struck one another in congress, and it was OK. Now we just put out insensitive ad campaigns.

    And yet, the Jeremiads and the historically-clueless point to the latter and bitch and moan about the downfall of society. I honestly rank the "sky-fallers" with the "flat-earthers" when it comes to intellectual merit. They just come across as ignorant kids who make the mistake that all generations make: The hubris to believe that THIS MOMENT in time is unique, special, especially riotous, etc...

  8. Thanks 1 Member(s) thanked for this post
  9. #6
    Grand Marshal ells9824's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    349
    Post Thanks / Like
    The only downfall of society I see is that everyone bends over backwards to make sure no one is offended or left out, to the point that it actually is singling out others.

  10. #7
    Ream Me Up, Scotty swivel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    The mountains of North Carolina. Hermit country.
    Posts
    3,893
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    13
    Quote Originally Posted by ells9824 View Post
    The only downfall of society I see is that everyone bends over backwards to make sure no one is offended or left out, to the point that it actually is singling out others.
    You mean the trend in some communities to not keep score at Little League games? Or the fact that business owners have too many parking spaces forced on them? Or the disproportionate coverage that women and minorities get in our history books these days, as compensation for our white-male-dominated past?

    What's weird about your argument (and trust me, there is a case to be made), is that the opposite argument is equally compelling. Don't we also live in a society where we allow MORE offensive behaviors than at many times in our past? Videogame content, prime-time TV content, books (and no bans on them), pornography, Internet access, younger kids being more sexually involved (but safer).

    What do we make of this dichotomy? I, for one, see it as evidence of a more pluralistic and diverse society. One in which opposite ends of the fanatic spectrum have much to complain about. And this development suits me just fine, so long as we have the personal freedom to choose which sub-culture to involve ourselves in.

    Southern rednecks keep score at Little-League and get in drunken brawls in the gravel parking lot. Latte-Hippies give equally-sized trophies to every Boston Little League participant, and go on and on about how progressive and superior they are. And nothing prevents members of either group from leaving and joining one they more agree with.

    Segregation is the key to diversity!

  11. Thanks 1 Member(s) thanked for this post
  12. #8
    Dark Jester Pirelli Jones's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Northern Mexico (I'm not in Mexico Idiots!)
    Posts
    228
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by swivel View Post
    What's weird about your argument (and trust me, there is a case to be made), is that the opposite argument is equally compelling. Don't we also live in a society where we allow MORE offensive behaviors than at many times in our past? Videogame content, prime-time TV content, books (and no bans on them), pornography, Internet access, younger kids being more sexually involved (but safer).
    I disagree with that assumption. Several of these behaviors in videogames, TV, internet are more media fantasies than actual behaviors. There are more people living dissociatively perhaps but offense between persons has certainly declined as the mediums have brought folks off the front porch and into the living room. Pervasive Anti-Social behavior is curing societal ills.

    People decry gun violence without understanding access to weaponry is more controlled now than ever before in our history and yet incidents continue to erupt like the boils on my ass. Regular and horrific. At least the levels have dropped in the past couple hundred years to where its nearly always noted by some group of the populace instead of generally regarded as routine and accepted that some folks meet bad ends.

  13. #9
    Ream Me Up, Scotty swivel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    The mountains of North Carolina. Hermit country.
    Posts
    3,893
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    13
    Do you play many games online? The treatment of others, and the anti-PC talk, are horrendous. Cheating is rampant. Look at what passes for fun in MMORPG's and Second Life.

    I don't think human nature has changed in, oh, about 300,000 years or so. But our ability to get away with our worst habits keeps rising. Leading to the trend that I alluded to in my previous post.

    I find two things to be true. And because they are seemingly at odds with one another, I think they explain the paradox of the human condition being crappy in many ways, yet improving in others. Which leads to arguments like this, where a pessimist can point out an inherent evil, while an optimist can point to a change for the better. The truths are:

    1. Humans are basically a bunch of total shits. They are programmed by simple chemical reactions that take place on the level of proteins. These reactions are perpetuated if they do something good for themselves, and vanish if they do something bad for themselves. Hence nature is at once in a state of violence and cooperation, each state depending on the relative worth to those individual chemical reactions. Yes, we are shits, but so is the rest of the ecosystem.

    2. Advancements in science (including philosophy, sociology, political science, etc...) have created conditions today that mitigate our shitiness more than at any other time in human history. It is not steady progress, but more like the stagger of a drunk who keeps getting closer and closer to home. We are still shits, but less so with every passing generation.

    Some people want to focus on the bad behaviors that are left. I prefer to look at how many we have learned to control. If history is any guide, we will continue to become less shitty over time, making the Jeremiads nothing but a boisterous nuisance.

  14. Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post
  15. #10
    AKA Dr. Salvador
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    196
    Post Thanks / Like
    all of you need to calm down. many of these posts seem a bit overly reactionary to me.

  16. Thanks 1 Member(s) thanked for this post

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •