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Thread: Obama's Rhetoric Is the Real 'Catastrophe'

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    Habitual Line Stepper dmax's Avatar
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    Obama's Rhetoric Is the Real 'Catastrophe'

    President Barack Obama has turned fearmongering into an art form. He has repeatedly raised the specter of another Great Depression. First, he did so to win votes in the November election. He has done so again recently to sway congressional votes for his stimulus package.

    In his remarks, every gloomy statistic on the economy becomes a harbinger of doom. As he tells it, today's economy is the worst since the Great Depression. Without his Recovery and Reinvestment Act, he says, the economy will fall back into that abyss and may never recover.

    This fearmongering may be good politics, but it is bad history and bad economics. It is bad history because our current economic woes don't come close to those of the 1930s. At worst, a comparison to the 1981-82 recession might be appropriate. Consider the job losses that Mr. Obama always cites. In the last year, the U.S. economy shed 3.4 million jobs. That's a grim statistic for sure, but represents just 2.2% of the labor force. From November 1981 to October 1982, 2.4 million jobs were lost -- fewer in number than today, but the labor force was smaller. So 1981-82 job losses totaled 2.2% of the labor force, the same as now.

    Job losses in the Great Depression were of an entirely different magnitude. In 1930, the economy shed 4.8% of the labor force. In 1931, 6.5%. And then in 1932, another 7.1%. Jobs were being lost at double or triple the rate of 2008-09 or 1981-82.This was reflected in unemployment rates. The latest survey pegs U.S. unemployment at 7.6%. That's more than three percentage points below the 1982 peak (10.8%) and not even a third of the peak in 1932 (25.2%). You simply can't equate 7.6% unemployment with the Great Depression.

    Other economic statistics also dispel any analogy between today's economic woes and the Great Depression. Real gross domestic product (GDP) rose in 2008, despite a bad fourth quarter. The Congressional Budget Office projects a GDP decline of 2% in 2009. That's comparable to 1982, when GDP contracted by 1.9%. It is nothing like 1930, when GDP fell by 9%, or 1931, when GDP contracted by another 8%, or 1932, when it fell yet another 13%.

    Auto production last year declined by roughly 25%. That looks good compared to 1932, when production shriveled by 90%. The failure of a couple of dozen banks in 2008 just doesn't compare to over 10,000 bank failures in 1933, or even the 3,000-plus bank (Savings & Loan) failures in 1987-88. Stockholders can take some solace from the fact that the recent stock market debacle doesn't come close to the 90% devaluation of the early 1930s.

    Mr. Obama's analogies to the Great Depression are not only historically inaccurate, they're also dangerous. Repeated warnings from the White House about a coming economic apocalypse aren't likely to raise consumer and investor expectations for the future. In fact, they have contributed to the continuing decline in consumer confidence that is restraining a spending pickup. Beyond that, fearmongering can trigger a political stampede to embrace a "recovery" package that delivers a lot less than it promises. A more cool-headed assessment of the economy's woes might produce better policies.
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123457303244386495.html
    Last edited by dmax; February 16th, 2009 at 11:32 PM.
    "When I joined the military it was illegal to be homosexual, then it became optional. I'm getting out before Obama makes it mandatory."
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    Grand Knight joo's Avatar
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    A local radio morning funhouse dj this morning commented that once the stimulus bill has been in effect for awhile, watch for the media to start reporting every positive economic indicator and crediting Obama for it. I think he's onto something.

    Little-known Nancy Pelosi quote (which I also heard on the morning funhouse, paraphrased): "The American economy is losing 500 million jobs every month." Really? Those other seven states must be really heavily populated.
    "Letting the parade pass from sight, he focuses on the empty road beyond, a pale curve vanishing into the woods where nothing moves and a street lamp flickers on and off until at last it flickers out and darkness sweeps in like a hand."~Mark Z. Danielewski, A Book that Contains a Rape Scene

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    I just wonder how long it's going to take all those who voted in Obama hoping for a quick fix (the majority of the people who voted for him) are going to turn on him/catch on that they were wrong.

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    Buzzkill. Athena's Avatar
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    I don't think ANYONE was honestly expecting a "quick fix". But most of us were looking for a reversal of policies, especially in terms of foreign relations. From my perspective, there was no reason to believe McCain would have presented many significant differences, when compared to the Bush administration. Considering Obama is barely a month in to his Presidency and the fact that the economy is far from the only issue, he's still got plenty of time to turn some things around.
    "Now that ceaseless exposure has calloused us to the lewd and the vulgar, it is instructive to see what still seems wicked to us. What still slaps the clammy flab of our submissive consciousness hard enough to get our attention?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Athena
    I don't think ANYONE was honestly expecting a "quick fix".
    I'm going to have to disagree. He's being heardled as a Black Jesus. I went to the Hibachi place the other night, and 2 out of 3 african americans were wearing shirts with him platered on to it, like he was Tupac or Biggie. My mom sells cars, and this lady didn't make her car payment because Obama didn't hand out the economic stimulus like she had planned to have in order to pay for the car. A lot of the people I work with think things are going to just magically get better since Obama is in office.

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    Buzzkill. Athena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Death Bed View Post
    I'm going to have to disagree. He's being heardled as a Black Jesus. I went to the Hibachi place the other night, and 2 out of 3 african americans were wearing shirts with him platered on to it, like he was Tupac or Biggie. My mom sells cars, and this lady didn't make her car payment because Obama didn't hand out the economic stimulus like she had planned to have in order to pay for the car. A lot of the people I work with think things are going to just magically get better since Obama is in office.
    Well, if I were you, I'd move, because you clearly live in an exceptionally stupid part of the country. I'm as politically active as anyone I know, and I've yet to run into this sentiment in any of the thousands of people I've discussed Obama with. So, if you're running into them all over the place, I'd head for the hills, then call in the bombers to erase that location from existance.
    "Now that ceaseless exposure has calloused us to the lewd and the vulgar, it is instructive to see what still seems wicked to us. What still slaps the clammy flab of our submissive consciousness hard enough to get our attention?"

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    That's honestly not a bad idea.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViWsmEHsbEs"]Harlem seems pretty bad too.[/ame]

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    Super Bowl XLV Champions! MichaelJCheaney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Death Bed View Post
    I'm going to have to disagree. He's being heardled as a Black Jesus. I went to the Hibachi place the other night, and 2 out of 3 african americans were wearing shirts with him platered on to it, like he was Tupac or Biggie. My mom sells cars, and this lady didn't make her car payment because Obama didn't hand out the economic stimulus like she had planned to have in order to pay for the car. A lot of the people I work with think things are going to just magically get better since Obama is in office.
    People are just as stupid here in Wisconsin DB.....So don't feel bad.....

    I feel bad because I am connected to Illinois.....and for some reason their rejects/Stupid people keep migrating into my State.

    And in all honesty Athena I do believe that the Majority of people who voted for President Obama actually thought that they would be getting something for nothing.

    After all he did run on the Hope and Change Platform, and after spending 819 Billion dollars on the "Stimulus that Stimulates Nobody" he is wanting to spend another 75 BILLION to buy up peoples mortgages.....

    Hes like a teenager with a stolen credit card.....

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    He can't do all this without congress. I have to believe that they are a bunch of chickenshits. They can't/won't look at things because they are instantly branded traitors and unpatriotic and a host of other things. As long as the unwashed masses play "follow the leader" with Obama, things will probably stay that way.
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    Buzzkill. Athena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelJCheaney View Post
    And in all honesty Athena I do believe that the Majority of people who voted for President Obama actually thought that they would be getting something for nothing.
    I have a problem with the qualification "the majority". To believe Obama would present a quick fix or "something for nothing," a person would have to be painfully ignorant and lacking common sense. While I'm sure that there are people out there like that, there's no way they comprise the majority.
    "Now that ceaseless exposure has calloused us to the lewd and the vulgar, it is instructive to see what still seems wicked to us. What still slaps the clammy flab of our submissive consciousness hard enough to get our attention?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Athena View Post
    I have a problem with the qualification "the majority". To believe Obama would present a quick fix or "something for nothing," a person would have to be painfully ignorant and lacking common sense. While I'm sure that there are people out there like that, there's no way they comprise the majority.
    Come visit.
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    No! The way you guys make it sound, I may never leave Seattle again!
    "Now that ceaseless exposure has calloused us to the lewd and the vulgar, it is instructive to see what still seems wicked to us. What still slaps the clammy flab of our submissive consciousness hard enough to get our attention?"

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    Super Bowl XLV Champions! MichaelJCheaney's Avatar
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    The thing that I keep hearing from the media is that this "Bad Economy" is going to present a real challenge to Obama.....

    To which I say...

    Why is it going to be so tough for him?

    He has a Democratic Majority in both Houses and the Republicans are all but neutered...

    What President Obama wants President Obama gets. Period. End of story.

    If this stimulus works....great! The Democrats can gloat all they want to. But if in Two years it is deemed a failure, they should have to own that too.

    They will still find a way to blame the Republicans-in spite of the fact that only 3 voted for it-and the scary thing is that not one voter under the age of 25 will actually go back and look at the record....

    BTW: Come to Madison. They make SF, Portland, and Seattle look "Mormon Conservative!"

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    Grand Knight joo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athena View Post
    I don't think ANYONE was honestly expecting a "quick fix". But most of us were looking for a reversal of policies, especially in terms of foreign relations. From my perspective, there was no reason to believe McCain would have presented many significant differences, when compared to the Bush administration. Considering Obama is barely a month in to his Presidency and the fact that the economy is far from the only issue, he's still got plenty of time to turn some things around.
    Why did Obama retain Robert Gates as defense secretary if he plans to have significantly different foreign relations policies compared to the Bush administration?
    "Letting the parade pass from sight, he focuses on the empty road beyond, a pale curve vanishing into the woods where nothing moves and a street lamp flickers on and off until at last it flickers out and darkness sweeps in like a hand."~Mark Z. Danielewski, A Book that Contains a Rape Scene

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    Quote Originally Posted by joo View Post
    Why did Obama retain Robert Gates as defense secretary if he plans to have significantly different foreign relations policies compared to the Bush administration?
    Because the guy's a fucking rockstar. Let's remember that he simply took over for Rumsfeld. Things were already pretty established for Gates when he adopted the Secretary of Defense position. But he has ample experience, especially as it relates to intelligence (he worked for the CIA for some 30 years). Also, back in '04, he co-chaired a Council on Foreign Relations task force addressing nuclear proliferation in Iran that recommended, among other things, direct and diplomatic dialogue with Iran. Sound like anyone else we know?

    So, yeah. Gates enjoys overwhelming bipartisan support, and Obama made a smart move in retaining him.
    "Now that ceaseless exposure has calloused us to the lewd and the vulgar, it is instructive to see what still seems wicked to us. What still slaps the clammy flab of our submissive consciousness hard enough to get our attention?"

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