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Thread: Should refugees be towed out to sea?

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    Grand Prince
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    Should refugees be towed out to sea?

    The purpose of this thread is to answer the question, Does a country have the right to protect its borders including loss of life by ditching at sea.
    The following cnn article is making the point that what they are doing is illegal
    and immoral. On the surface it would seem so. Just how far can you go to stop your country? Pretty far it seems. They would surely be shot if they rushed the border. What is the difference? This also ties into the Gitmo closing. Why? because we tortured them for info. Why are we so weak when other countries just tow em back to sea?

    BANGKOK, Thailand (CNN) -- Bedraggled, hungry and dazed, the refugees arrived on the shores of Thailand after fleeing one of the most repressive governments in the world -- the hard-line military regime in Myanmar, also known as Burma.


    This picture provided to CNN is said to show refugees being towed out to sea by the Thai army.

    But a CNN investigation has uncovered evidence that for hundreds of Rohingya refugees -- members of a Muslim minority group -- abuse and abandonment at sea were what awaited them in Thailand, at the hands of Thai authorities.

    Extraordinary photos obtained by CNN from someone directly involved in the Thai operation show refugees on their rickety boats being towed out to sea, cut loose and abandoned.

    One photo shows the Thai army towing a boatload of some 190 refugees far out to sea.

    For days, accusations have been carried in several regional papers that the Thai army has been systematically towing boat-loads of Rohingya refugees far out to sea and setting them adrift.

    The army denied it, and the Thai government has launched an inquiry.

    CNN's investigation -- based on accounts from tourists, sources in Thailand and a Rohingya refugee who said he was on a boat towed back out to sea -- helps to piece together a picture of survival thwarted by an organized effort not just to repel arriving refugees, but to hold them prisoner on shore, drag them in flimsy boats far out to sea and then abandon them. Watch CNN's investigation into reports of refugees being set adrift »

    Three tourists recently voiced concern to CNN over what they had seen -- and in some cases photographed -- near Thailand's tourist areas.


    One tourist provided CNN with photos last week of refugees detained by Thai authorities on a beach near a tourist site, with the refugees prone on the sun-bleached sand while guards stood nearby.

    "Whenever someone raised their head or moved, they [guards] would strike them with a whip," said Australian tourist Andrew Catton.

    A CNN crew traveled to a remote stretch of the Thai coast four hours north of the tourist island of Phuket to investigate the growing reports that the Thai military was secretly detaining Rohingya refugees before towing them out to sea and setting them adrift.

    In an isolated beach area, debris including sandals and campfire remnants indicated that large numbers of people had been there but were nowhere to be seen.

    The crew then traveled to a nearby island, where residents reported that refugees who had escaped were living in the jungle.

    In one hamlet, villagers had captured a Rohingya man they believed had been living in the jungle for days.

    The refugee, who identified himself as Iqbal Hussain, told CNN he was on one of six boats in a makeshift refugee fleet that arrived in Thailand in December.

    He said all six boats with their refugee cargo were towed back out to sea in January, and five of the six boats sank. His boat made it back to shore, and he hid in the jungle for days until nearby villagers captured him.

    In broken English and using sign language and drawings, he described what happened to the other men on the boats:

    "All men dead," he said, putting the number of dead at several hundred.

    The Rohingya, a persecuted minority in Myanmar, have been fleeing their country in rickety boats for years, in search of a better life.

    In Thailand, many instead have found deprivation and the possibility of desertion far off shore, according to the CNN investigation.

    The source who provided CNN with photos of refugees in a boat being towed out to sea stressed that the Thai army had given the refugees food and water, but he also confirmed that the boats had been pulled for more than two days into international waters before they were set adrift.

    His account directly contradicts briefings by senior Thai army sources who denied any such operation was undertaken.

    A source in the Thai military, after extensive questioning, did confirm to CNN that the Thai army was operating a dump-at-sea policy. But the source defended it, insisting that each boatload of refugees was always given sufficient supplies of food and water.


    That source claimed local villagers had become afraid of the hundreds of Rohingya arriving each month, and that they were accusing the refugees of stealing their property and threatening them.

    CNN asked the government for comment and was told an investigation was being launched. Reflecting the sensitivity of the matter, a report on that investigation is expected to go directly to the prime minister

    http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapc...ees/index.html
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    Ream Me Up, Scotty swivel's Avatar
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    Goddamn. It makes me feel sick to think of the shit I complain about now and then.

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    Great Marshal
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    Hey Guys

    NO NO NO NO NO NO NO they should not be TOWED out to sea, and yes I think the actions are criminal. (note that I'm not saying they have to accept the refugees, but more on that in a sec) Couple of reasons:
    (1) Thailand is a longstanding UN Member and as such, has adopted (at least on paper) resolution regarding care of human life.
    (2) Thailand is also a signatory to the Rome Statute (International Criminal Court (ICC)) - which is why this clearly to me is criminal. The Rome Statute is not like the Geneva Conventions that apply to the care of prisoners during war, but also includes humanitarian action.

    By taking the refugees onto shore, then back onto a boat, then towing them out to sea, the Gov't actively disregarded human life. This wasn't being passive and ignoring the plight of refugees, but essentially making it worse. If they didn't want to accept refugees, they didn't have too. If they had for instance, prevented the boats from coming ashore, and the boats went off and drifted into the ocean, technically it might be different.

    If the people were a danger to national security (doubtful to me, from the story here) then they should have been taken into custody and tried - b/c again, as a signatory to the Rome statute Thailand has accepted certain responsibilities. ALSO if the people are a danger to national security that brings into question whether Thailand would be held to Geneva standards - as detainees in the U.S.'s "war on terror are"

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    The Shakedown King Pete Bondurant's Avatar
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    Should refugees be towed out to sea?
    Yes. Refugees should be towed out to sea.

    Yes. Refugees should be fed to sharks.


    Yes. Attractive female refugees should be allowed to work as prostitutes serving our troops over-seas.


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    Their is no more "war on terror". It is now to be referred to the "enduring struggle against terrorism and extremism" or an "ongoing struggle." Feels more warm and fuzzy that way.
    Want to see what you've missed on D'D?
    Click "New Posts" (below the Front Page tab above) to see posts you haven't read.
    Click "Mark Forums Read" on that page to clear the list.

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  11. #6
    Grand Prince
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steph View Post
    Hey Guys

    NO NO NO NO NO NO NO they should not be TOWED out to sea, and yes I think the actions are criminal. (note that I'm not saying they have to accept the refugees, but more on that in a sec) Couple of reasons:
    (1) Thailand is a longstanding UN Member and as such, has adopted (at least on paper) resolution regarding care of human life.
    (2) Thailand is also a signatory to the Rome Statute (International Criminal Court (ICC)) - which is why this clearly to me is criminal. The Rome Statute is not like the Geneva Conventions that apply to the care of prisoners during war, but also includes humanitarian action.

    By taking the refugees onto shore, then back onto a boat, then towing them out to sea, the Gov't actively disregarded human life. This wasn't being passive and ignoring the plight of refugees, but essentially making it worse. If they didn't want to accept refugees, they didn't have too. If they had for instance, prevented the boats from coming ashore, and the boats went off and drifted into the ocean, technically it might be different.

    If the people were a danger to national security (doubtful to me, from the story here) then they should have been taken into custody and tried - b/c again, as a signatory to the Rome statute Thailand has accepted certain responsibilities. ALSO if the people are a danger to national security that brings into question whether Thailand would be held to Geneva standards - as detainees in the U.S.'s "war on terror are"
    Steph, thanks I think you pretty much nailed it. If they made it here, towing them back out after they hit shore is akin to murder.
    The assumption they are not a national security threat is subjective. In time immigration is its own threat as it can alter or otherwise desinegrate a countries culture, values and political systems.
    Denmark is experiencing that with the muslim imigration influx. and they are pissed.
    Japan is a great example of keeping people out. They have immigration laws so complex the Japenese barely understand them. It is designed to keep foreigners out.
    So do they have the right to tow them back out to sea they do make it to shore? probably not morally but who's to stop them?
    I am sure that if they tried this with the United States there would be no towing out to see, but at least deported at our expense. Especially with the outcry since 911.
    It's about to get complicated.
    So what to do with them? Seems like the answer is to keep them from hitting the shores. Then I have no problem letting them drift, although the Rome statute you cite appear to forbid that. Its certainly gets the message out and is a quick add for "don't come here". Patrolling a coast is a vast job and probably not realistic.
    Probably a more effective way to prevent this is sanctions against the country that created this problem.
    Last edited by malq; February 4th, 2009 at 09:23 AM. Reason: typo
    "Where the fuck am I ? - Amelia Earhart, 1937

    You can say lots of bad things about pedophiles, but at least they drive slowly past schools.->malq

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