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Thread: Michael Vick In The News

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    Duke crickett's Avatar
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    Michael Vick In The News

    Reading Therapy Dog Jonny was once one of Michael Vick's trained fighters
    Zip and his new posse

    Vick dog Teddles with his new mommy
    Uba and new mommy, they also have a cat named William

    Vick dog Frodo and mommy. His foster mommy wants to keep him

    Sweet Jasmine was so traumatized that she would hide under a blanket in her kennel. She's now with a rescue worker who has given her a forever home. Sterling won Jasmine's trust by climbing into her cage with her.




    Vick dog Sweet Pea is believed to be Sweet Jasmine's mother. They have been adopted by persons living about 100 miles from each other. They get together for regular play dates.

    Grace is charming some potential adopters in this photo

    Chwistek and Bill Cook have adopted Audie

    Ernie is in foster care placed by BAD RAP. He is awaiting a forever home





    By Jim Gorant


    Since being rescued 20 months ago from the dogfighting ring financed by Michael Vick, all but a few of the abused pit bulls have been recovering in sanctuary, foster care and adoptive homes. Now even the most traumatized of them can have a happy new year.

    The dog approaches the outstretched hand. Her name is Sweet Jasmine, and she is 35 pounds of twitchy curiosity with a coat the color of fried chicken, a pink nose and brown eyes. She had spent a full 20 seconds studying this five-fingered offering before advancing. Now, as she moves forward, her tail points straight down, her butt is hunched toward the ground, her head is bowed, her ears pinned back. She stands at maybe three quarters of her height.

    She gets within a foot of the hand and stops. She licks her snout, a sign of nervousness, and looks up at the stranger, seeking assurance. She looks back to the hand, licks her snout again and begins to extend her neck. Her nose is six inches away from the hand, one inch, half an inch. She sniffs once. She sniffs again. At this point almost any other dog in the world would offer up a gentle lick, a sweet hello, an invitation to be scratched or petted. She's come so far. She's so close.

    But Jasmine pulls away.

    PETA wanted Jasmine dead. Not just Jasmine, and not just PETA. The Humane Society of the U.S., agreeing with PETA, took the position that Michael Vick's pit bulls, like all dogs saved from fight rings, were beyond rehabilitation and that trying to save them was a misappropriation of time and money. "The cruelty they've suffered is such that they can't lead what anyone who loves dogs would consider a normal life," says PETA spokesman Dan Shannon. "We feel it's better that they have their suffering ended once and for all." If you're a dog and People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals suggests you be put down, you've got problems. Jasmine has problems.

    They began in 2001, about the same time Vick started cashing NFL paychecks and bought a 15-acre plot of land at 1915 Moonlight Road in Smithville, Va. The property sits across from a Baptist church. A bright green lawn surrounds a white brick house that has a pool and a basketball court in the backyard and is bordered by a white picket fence. When Vick bought the land, the house didn't exist and wouldn't be built for a few years. It wasn't a priority. The Atlanta Falcons' new quarterback never intended to live there.

    Beyond the house, shrouded by trees, were five sheds painted black from top to bottom, including the windows and doors. Past them were scattered wire cages and wood doghouses. Farther still, where the trees got thicker, two partly buried car axles protruded from the ground. This was the home of Bad Newz Kennels, the dogfighting operation that Vick and three of his buddies started a year after Vick became the first pick of the 2001 NFL draft. When local and state authorities busted the operation in April 2007, 51 pit bulls were seized, Jasmine among them.

    By most estimates Jasmine is around four years old, which means she was most likely born into Bad Newz, and her life there fit the kennel's name. A few of the dogs, probably pets, were kept in one of the sheds. The fighters and a handful of dogs that Bad Newz housed for other people lived in the outdoor kennels. The rest -- dogs that were too young to fight, were used for breeding or were kept as bait dogs for the fighters to practice on -- were chained to the car axles in the woods.

    The water in the bowls was speckled with algae. Females were strapped into a "rape stand" so the dogs could breed without injuring each other. Some of the sheds held syringes and other medical supplies, and training equipment such as treadmills and spring bars (from which dogs hung, teeth clamped on rubber rings, to strengthen their jaws). The biggest shed had a fighting pit, once covered by a bloodstained carpet that was found in the woods.

    According to court documents, from time to time Vick and his cohorts "rolled" the dogs: put them in the pit for short battles to see which ones had the right stuff. Those that fought got affection, food, vitamins and training sessions. The ones that showed no taste for blood were killed -- by gunshot, electrocution, drowning, hanging or, in at least one case, being repeatedly slammed against the ground.

    It's impossible to say what Jasmine saw while circling the axles deep in the woods, but dogs can hear a tick yawn at 50 yards. The sounds of the fights and the executions undoubtedly filtered through the trees.

    "Multiple studies have shown that if you take two mammals, say rats, and put them in boxes side by side, then give the first one electric shocks, the reaction of the second one -- in terms of brain-wave and nervous-system activity -- will be identical," says Stephen Zawistowski, a certified applied animal behaviorist and an executive vice president of the ASPCA. "The trauma isn't limited to the animal that's experiencing the pain."

    In a sense, then, whatever atrocities any of the dogs suffered at 1915 Moonlight Road, all of them suffered. So one would think that April 25, 2007, the day law-enforcement officials took the dogs from the Vick compound, would have been a good one for Jasmine.

    Zippy is not a big dog, but she's a pit bull, one of the Vick pit bulls, and she's up on her hind legs straining against the collar, her front paws paddling the air like a child's arms in a swimming pool. The woman holding her back, Berenice Mora-Hernandez, is not big either, and as she digs in her heels, it's not clear who will win the tug-of-war. "Watch it!" she says to the visitors who stand frozen in her doorway. "Be careful. Sometimes she pees when she gets excited, and I don't want her to get you." And just like that Zippy whizzes on the floor. Twice.

    Berenice's six-year-old daughter, Vanessa, disappears and returns with a few paper towels. The spill absorbed, Zippy is set free to jump up and lick and wag her hellos before she leads everyone into the family room, where Berenice's husband, Jesse, sits with the couple's five-week-old son, Francisco, and two other dogs, who rise in their pens and start barking. But Zippy has no interest in them. Instead she leaps onto the couch where Vanessa's nine-year-old sister, Eliana, is waiting. Vanessa joins them, and over the next 15 minutes the two girls do everything possible to provoke an abused and neglected pit bull who's been rescued from a dogfighting ring. They grab Zippy's face, yank her tail, roll on top of her, roll under her, pick her up, swing her around, stick their hands in her mouth. Eliana and Zippy end up nose to nose. The girl kisses the dog. The dog licks the girl's entire face.

    Zippy is proof that pit bulls have an image problem. In truth these dogs are among the most people-friendly on the planet. It has to be. In an organized dogfight three or four people are in the ring, and the dogs are often pulled apart to rest before resuming combat. (The fight usually ends when one of the dogs refuses to reengage.) When separating two angry, adrenaline-filled animals, the handlers have to be sure the dogs won't turn on them, so over the years dogfighters have either killed or not bred dogs that showed signs of aggression toward humans. "Of all dogs," says Dr. Frank McMillan, the director of well-being studies at Best Friends Animal Society, a 33,000-acre sanctuary in southern Utah, "pit bulls possess the single greatest ability to bond with people."

    Perhaps that's why for decades pit bulls were considered great family dogs and in England were known as "nanny dogs" for their care of children. Petey in The Little Rascals was a pit bull, as was Stubby, a World War I hero for his actions with the 102nd Infantry in Europe, such as locating wounded U.S. soldiers and a German spy. Most dog experts will attest that a pit bull properly trained and socialized from a young age is a great pet.

    Still, pit bulls historically have been bred for aggression against other dogs, and if they're put in uncontrolled situations, some of them will fight, and if they're not properly socialized or have been abused, they can become aggressive toward people. It doesn't mean that all pit bulls are instinctively inclined to fight, but there is that potential. Bad Newz killed dogs because it couldn't get them to be aggressive enough. The kennel also raised at least two grand champions, dogs with a minimum of five wins apiece.

    "A pit bull is like a Porsche. It's a finely tuned, highly muscled athlete," says Zawistowski. "And just like you wouldn't give a Porsche to a 16-year-old, you don't want just anyone to own a pit bull. It should be someone who has experience with dogs and is willing to spend the time, because with training and proper socialization you will get the most out of them as pets."

    The pit bull's p.r. mess can be likened to a lot of teens driving Porsches -- accidents waiting to happen. Too many dogs were irresponsibly bred, encouraged to be aggressive or put in situations in which they could not restrain themselves, and pit-bull maulings became the equivalent of land-based shark attacks, guaranteeing a flush of screaming headlines and urban mythology. Some contend that this hysteria reached its apex with a 1987 Sports Illustrated cover that featured a snarling pit bull below the headline beware of this dog. Despite the more balanced article inside, which was occasioned by a series of attacks by pit bulls, the cover cemented the dogs' badass cred, and as rappers affected the gangster ethos, pit bulls became cool. Suddenly, any thug or wannabe thug knew what kind of dog to own. Many of these people didn't know how to train or socialize or control the dogs, and the cycle fed itself.

    Three pit bulls attacked 10-year-old Shawn Jones near the Hernandezes' town in Northern California 7 1/2 years ago, tearing off the boy's ears and causing other injuries, but Berenice stood up for the breed then and still does. "It's almost always the owner, not the dog," she says, who's responsible for aggressive behavior. Her family has been "fostering" pit bulls -- minding them in their house in Concord until they can be adopted -- for nine years and has never had a problem with one. "These girls have grown up with pit bulls their whole lives, and they've loved every one of them."

    That wasn't hard to do with Zippy. When she arrived from the rescue group BAD RAP (Bay Area Doglovers Responsible About Pitbulls) in October 2007, "she was afraid of her own shadow," says Berenice. Loud noises made her jump, and when she entered another room she'd crawl through the doorway on her belly. That lasted about six weeks, but once Zippy got comfortable she took over the house. She races from room to room, goes for runs with Berenice and plays in the yard with the other two dogs: the family's big blue pit bull, Crash, and another foster dog, Roller, a bulldog-pit mix.

    As the girls run out of energy, Zippy moves on. She pops up from below the tangle of limbs and black hair that are Eliana and Vanessa and prances over to Jesse, who's still holding his infant son. Zippy noses up to the baby, takes a few sniffs and then licks his foot. Taste test concluded, she shoots over to the side door, pushes down the handle with her snout and disappears into the side yard. "You see that?" Berenice says. "This one's so smart. I never had another dog here who figured out how to do that." Moments later there's a little rap at the door. Berenice pulls it open and in comes Zippy, ears up, tail wagging.

    Eliana, meanwhile, has pulled a spiral-bound notebook from her book bag. It's late November, and she wants to read a Thanksgiving essay she wrote at school. As her little voice takes hold of the room, Zippy curls into a circle beside her. The last lines of the story go like this: "Zippy is one of a kind. I named her Zippy because she is really fast. I don't want any of my dogs to be adopted."

    After being taken from the Moonlight Road property, Vick's dogs were dispersed to six animal-control facilities in Virginia. Conditions differed slightly from place to place, but for the most part each dog was kept alone in a cage for months at a time. They were often forced to relieve themselves where they stood, and they weren't let out even while their cages were being cleaned; attendants simply hosed down the floors with the dogs inside. They were given so little attention because workers assumed they were dangerous and would be put down after Vick's trial. The common belief is that any money and time spent caring for dogs saved from fight rings would be better devoted to the millions of dogs already sitting in shelters, about half of which are destroyed each year.

    What the pit bulls had going for them was the same thing that had once seemed to doom them: Michael Vick. They were, in a sense, celebrities, and there was a massive public outcry to help them. Letters and e-mails poured in to the offices of Judge Henry E. Hudson and of Mike Gill, assistant U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia. In the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, Gill had worked on several animal-related cases and still had ties to the rescue community. He reached out to, among others, Zawistowski. Could the ASPCA put together a team to evaluate the animals and determine if any of them could be saved?

    Around the same time Donna Reynolds, the executive director and cofounder, along with her husband, Tim Racer, of BAD RAP, sent Gill a seven-page proposal suggesting a dog-by-dog evaluation to see if any could be spared. The couple, who have placed more than 400 pit bulls in new homes during the last 10 years, knew it was a long shot. It's faster and easier to judge the entire barrel as rotten. Zawistowski put together a team composed of himself, two other ASPCA staffers, three outside certified animal behaviorists and three members of BAD RAP, including Reynolds and Racer.

    On Aug. 23, 2007, Vick appeared in U.S. District Court in Richmond, and Judge Hudson accepted a plea agreement in which the former quarterback admitted that he had been involved in dogfighting and had personally participated in killing animals. The agreement required him to pay $928,000 for the care and treatment of the dogs, including any humane destruction deemed necessary. "That was the landmark moment -- when he not only gave the dogs the money but referred to it as restitution," says Zawistowski. "That's when these dogs went from weapons to victims."

    On Sept. 4, 5 and 6, under tight security and a court-imposed gag order, Zawistowski's team assembled in Virginia. It quickly agreed on a protocol for testing the dogs that would show their level of socialization and aggressiveness. Among other things, the dogs were presented with people, toys, food and other dogs. Their reactions and their overall demeanor were evaluated. In those three days the team assessed 49 dogs at six sites.

    It didn't help that the assessors had no idea what to expect. Besides their time at Bad Newz, the dogs had spent four months locked up in shelters with minimal attention. That alone could push many dogs over the brink. "I thought, If we can save three or four, it will be fantastic," Reynolds says.

    Adds Racer, "We had been told these were the most vicious dogs in America."

    So what they found in the pens caught them off guard. "Some of them were just big goofy dogs you'd find in any shelter," says Zawistowski. No more than a dozen were seasoned fighters, and few showed a desire to harm anything.

    "We were surprised at how little aggression there was," says Reynolds. Many of the dogs had all but shut down. They cowered in the corners of their kennels or stood hunched with their heads lowered, their tails between their legs and their feet shifting nervously. Some didn't want to come out. As far as they knew bad things happened when people came. Bad things happened when they were led out of their cages.

    One dog was so scared that even the confines of her kennel offered her no comfort. Shelter workers used a blanket to construct a little tent inside her cage that she could duck under. Remembering that dog, McMillan says, "Jasmine broke my heart."

    Jonny Justice likes to lie in a splash of sunlight that stretches across the floor of the living room in the San Francisco split-level of Cris Cohen. Head lolling back, eyes closed, legs sticking up in the air, he lets the rays warm his pink belly. Comfy as this is, Jonny doesn't have long to linger. He's on a tight schedule. He's up every day at 6 a.m., out for a 45-minute walk, making sure to avoid the garbage trucks, which freak him out. After that it's back home for a handful of food, some grooming, a quick scratch-down and then into his dog bed with a few toys and food puzzles. At lunchtime he's back out for a quick trip to the yard, some play time and a little lounging in the sun, followed by a return to the kennel until around 4:30. Then it's another long walk -- an hour this time -- dinner, a game of fetch in the yard, quiet time and sleep.

    After the ASPCA-led evaluations, the dogs were put into one of four categories: euthanize; sanctuary 2 (needs lifetime care given by trained professionals, with little chance for adoption); sanctuary 1 (needs a controlled environment, with a greater possibility of adoption); and foster (must live with experienced dog owners for a minimum of six months, and after further evaluation adoption is likely). Rebecca Huss, a professor at the Valparaiso (Ind.) University School of Law and an animal-law expert, was placed in charge of the dispersal.

    Jonny was a foster dog that was taken in by Cohen, a longtime BAD RAP volunteer who owns another pit bull, Lily, and had cared for seven previous fosters. "When he first came, I could see he was dealing with some serious stress," Cohen says of Jonny. "Everything scared him: running water, flushing toilets, rattling pots. He was like Scooby-Doo seeing a ghost -- he'd jump straight in the air and take off. We dealt with that by putting him on a solid routine. Everything the same, every day. Dogs thrive on that. If they know what to expect, they can relax."

    "You ease their fears by building confidence through simple everyday tasks," says McMillan. "We have to show them that the world is not out to harm them. It's a peaceful, trustworthy place."

    After about two months, Jonny began to chill out, and Cohen started working on his manners. "His original name was Jonny Rotten," Cohen says, "because he was such a little monster. He'd never lived in a house before. He didn't know his name. He had no clue what stairs were or how to go up them. He'd tie you up in the leash every time you took him out. He'd just flat out run into stuff." Jonny responded to weekly obedience training and to Cohen's personal training, and in a few months his name was changed from Rotten to Justice.

    During a walk in Golden Gate Park one day, Jonny was mobbed by a group of kids. Cohen wasn't sure how Jonny would react to all those little hands thrust at him, but the dog loved it. He played with the children, and Cohen realized Jonny had an affinity for them. He enrolled Jonny in training for the program Paws for Tales, in which kids who get nervous reading aloud in class practice their skills by reading to a canine audience of one. Jonny was certified in November, and now once a month he sits patiently listening to children read.

    He's not the only one of Vick's former dogs lending a hand. Leo, who lives with foster mother Marthina McClay in Los Gatos, Calif., is a certified therapy dog who spends two to three hours a week visiting cancer patients and troubled teens. Two other dogs are also therapy dogs, and two more are in training. A total of six have earned Canine Good Citizen certificates, issued by the American Kennel Club to dogs who pass a series of 10 tests, including walking through a crowd and reacting to unexpected sights and sounds. "It's great to show people how much these dogs have to offer," says Cohen.

    Jasmine runs in the yard of the small suburban Baltimore house, jumping on Sweet Pea, another pit bull, and nipping at the back of her neck. Sweet Pea spins and leaps into Jasmine, and the two tumble together for a minute, then pop up and continue their romp. When they roll around it's difficult to tell one from the other, because they are the exact same color. Sweet Pea is a few years older and a little bigger, and she has markings that Jasmine does not: a series of scars on her snout and head indicative of combat. Still, Sweet Pea loves to be around other dogs. She and Jasmine have a special connection and have brought each other a bit of peace. The people who know them best think that Sweet Pea is probably Jasmine's mother. That's why their families try to arrange play dates for them twice a month.

    Jasmine wound up in the hands of Catalina Stirling, a 35-year-old artist who lives with her husband, Davor Mrkoci, 32, an electrical engineer; her children, Nino (4 1/2) and Anais (2 1/2); Rogue, a spunky spaniel-lab mix; Desmond, a three-legged foster basenji-lab mix; and Thaiz, the family cat. The fenced yard is big enough for running, and the living-dining area, which contains almost no furniture, has a smattering of dog beds and water bowls. Catalina and her children have painted angels on one wall.

    In her evaluation Jasmine was considered for sanctuary with Best Friends, but when volunteers from the Baltimore rescue group Recycled Love went to see the pit bulls at the Washington (D.C.) Animal Rescue League, a volunteer was so moved by the sight of Jasmine hiding under the blanket that she crawled into the cage and began massaging and whispering to the dog. Jasmine seemed to respond. So Huss sent Jasmine and Sweet Pea to Recycled Love, which subsequently turned Jasmine over to the woman who had crawled into the cage: Catalina Stirling.

    Despite a promising start, Jasmine had a long way to go. For months she sat in her little cage in Stirling's house and refused to come out. "I had to pick her up and carry her outside so she could go to the bathroom," Stirling says. "She wouldn't even stand up until I had walked away. There's a little hole in the yard, and once she was done, she would go lie in the hole." It was three or four months before Jasmine would exit the cage on her own, and then only to go out, relieve herself and lie in the hole. Sweet Pea, who's better adjusted but still battles her own demons, was an hour away, and her visits helped draw out Jasmine. After six months Stirling could finally take both dogs for a walk in a big park near her house.

    Jasmine has come far, but she still has many fears. Around people she almost always walks with her head and tail down. She won't let anyone approach her from behind, and she spends most of the day in her pen, sitting quietly, the open door yawning before her. Stirling works with her endlessly. "I feel like what I do for her is so little compared with what she does for me," she says, welling up.

    In the end, 47 of the 51 Vick dogs were saved. (Two died while in the shelters; one was destroyed because it was too violent; and another was euthanized for medical reasons.) Twenty-two dogs went to Best Friends, where McMillan and his staff chart their emotional state daily; almost all show steady improvement in categories such as calmness, sociability and happiness. McMillan believes 17 of the dogs will eventually be adopted, and applicants are being screened for the first of those. The other 25 have been spread around the country; the biggest group, 10, went to California with BAD RAP. Fourteen of the 25 have been placed in permanent homes, and the rest are in foster care.

    Still, it's Jasmine, lying in her kennel, who embodies the question at the heart of the Vick dogs' story. Was it worth the time and effort to save these 47 dogs when millions languish in shelters? Charmers such as Zippy and Leo and Jonny Justice seem to provide the obvious answer, but even for these dogs any incidence of aggression, provoked or not, will play only one way in the headlines. It's a lifelong sentence to a very short leash. PETA's position is unchanged. "Some [of the dogs] will end up with something resembling a normal life," Shannon says, "but the chances are very slim, and it's not a good risk to take."

    Then there are dogs like Lucas, who will never leave sanctuary because of his history as a fighter, and Jasmine and Sweet Pea, who will never leave their Recycled Love families. "There was a lot of discussion about whether to save all of the sanctuary cases," says Reynolds, "but in the end [Best Friends] decided that's what they are there for. There are no regrets."

    BAD RAP works out of Oakland Animal Services, where above the main entrance is inscribed a Gandhi quote that dog people cite often: the greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.

    "Vick showed the worst of us, our bloodlust, but this rescue showed the best," Reynolds says. "I don't think any of us thought it was possible to save these dogs -- the government, the rescuers, the regular people -- but we surprised ourselves."

    Jasmine doesn't know about any of that as she sits on the back deck of Stirling's house. Stirling kneels next to her, gently stroking the dog's back. "I used to think any dog could be rehabbed if you gave it food, exercise and love," she says, "but I know now it's not totally true. Jasmine's happy, but she'll never be like other dogs."

    It's quiet for a moment, and the breeze blows a shower of brown and red leaves off the trees. Then Jasmine turns, looks up, and licks Catalina's face. It is the sweetest of kisses.

    To support animal-care groups cited in this article, go to their respective Web sites: www.aspca.org, www.badrap.org, www.bestfriends.org,www.recycledlove.organd http://www.ourpack.org/.



    Please note: I will NEVER support PETA (People for the Ethical treatment of Animals...my ass!) because they will just KILL animals just because they're being inconvenienced! How "Ethical" is THAT???
    And I am APPALLED that the "Humane" so-called Society would endorse killing ALL of these beautiful dogs (and hundreds of others "rescued" from fighting rings....without even looking at the dogs or evaluating them. So NOW they are on my list of charities that I will NOT support.
    Last edited by crickett; December 26th, 2008 at 12:36 PM.

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    You all can yell at me and get in the Pitt Bull debate again if you want but I think it is really irresponsible to adopt a pit that was fought into a family with 3 young kids, one an infant. I don't think all pits are bad but I don't think fighting dogs can ever be 100% trusted, and I think to take that chance with children is ill advised.

    The others, if grown adults with no kids want to chance it, well good for them! And PETA has always sucked ass. IMO.
    Last edited by Nell; December 26th, 2008 at 01:10 PM. Reason: spelled pit wrong like an idiot
    Love withers under constraint; its very essence is liberty. It is compatible neither with obedience, jealousy nor fear. It is there most pure, perfect, and unlimited when its votaries live in confidence, equality and unreserve. - Percy Byshe Shelley

    We love where the lightening strikes, and that's not always where we thought it would.-Carolinablue

    I believe that what we do for others is all we leave behind when we die.-Carolinablue

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    Duke crickett's Avatar
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    Zip's new family is well seasoned in foster care with this type of dog. This family have been fostering dogs for 9 years and never had a problem with any of their foster dogs. The dogs were all evaluated before placement by animal experts (no mom 'n pop rescuers). The family was evaluated as well.
    These people are not idiots who just walked in somewhere and picked out a dog because they liked it's looks.

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    Grand Knight Morticia's Avatar
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    Love stories like this. My German Shepherd is named Zip, love him. Can't imagine someone doing this to animals, almost for pleasure since financially his ass was set.

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    These people are not idiots who just walked in somewhere and picked out a dog because they liked it's looks.

    Did I say this at all? I think I was careful not to. I said it was irresponsible of them to take a known FIGHTING pit into a home with small kids. No matter how well trained you are as an adult kids are unpredictable and why would you take the risk? I have nothing against pits, and like I said in my post if you are and ADULT with no small kids in your house that wants to adopt a fighting pit than you are a good soul and that is wonderful.

    Again, only my opinion. I never said I hated all pits and I never said they should all be put down or something.
    Love withers under constraint; its very essence is liberty. It is compatible neither with obedience, jealousy nor fear. It is there most pure, perfect, and unlimited when its votaries live in confidence, equality and unreserve. - Percy Byshe Shelley

    We love where the lightening strikes, and that's not always where we thought it would.-Carolinablue

    I believe that what we do for others is all we leave behind when we die.-Carolinablue

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    Duke crickett's Avatar
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    It was just a statement hon. Not even aimed at you. Just a statement. Don't be so touchy.
    I have NOT agreed to place certain dogs with people before because it was obvious that they were choosing the dog for it's looks or reputation and NOT for the dog itself. Like the number of people who just HAD to have a Dalmation every-time-the-movie "101 Dalmations" came out. Dalmations are quite high strung and do not usually make a good dog for small children. Try telling that to someone whose kids have seen the movie 18 times and just HAVE to have a Dalmation. Or the guy who wanted a Doberman that I had rescued. This was a sweet puppy of probably a year. He was looking for a "bad-ass DAWG!" I shooed him off and placed the dog with a family who had him trained as a therapy dog for a hearing impaired child.
    Last edited by crickett; December 26th, 2008 at 02:38 PM.

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    Well since you responded directly to my post I thought your post was directed at me. I wasn't being too touchy, I was replying to what you said, to further clear up what I was trying to say. Mainly because I know you love pits personally and I didn't want to offend you.
    Last edited by Nell; December 26th, 2008 at 01:41 PM. Reason: unnecessarry bitchiness. sorry
    Love withers under constraint; its very essence is liberty. It is compatible neither with obedience, jealousy nor fear. It is there most pure, perfect, and unlimited when its votaries live in confidence, equality and unreserve. - Percy Byshe Shelley

    We love where the lightening strikes, and that's not always where we thought it would.-Carolinablue

    I believe that what we do for others is all we leave behind when we die.-Carolinablue

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    Duke crickett's Avatar
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    No, I enjoy hearing from you. You always have something interesting and intelligent to say. And sometimes your even funny. Plus I only use "hon" if I like you. If I don't, you don't get a "hon"

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    Nun the worse for where Sister Iroz's Avatar
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    Did I say this at all? I think I was careful not to. I said it was irresponsible of them to take a known FIGHTING pit into a home with small kids. No matter how well trained you are as an adult kids are unpredictable and why would you take the risk? I have nothing against pits, and like I said in my post if you are and ADULT with no small kids in your house that wants to adopt a fighting pit than you are a good soul and that is wonderful.

    Again, only my opinion. I never said I hated all pits and I never said they should all be put down or something.
    I have to agree with Nell on this I would never adopt any type of dog trained for fighting if I had children. Both kids and dogs are unpredictable so why take the chance of your child getting hurt and your dog being put down. You never know when any animal may turn on you. Shit for that matter I myself an unpredictable I can be nice one minute and be a bitch the next. But I do believe a dog trained to fight will always have that instinct within them. Now, I LOVE ANIMALS but would never want to put the animal or child at risk. Just sayin.

    I once had a loberman, half lab, half doberman. He was a sweet big ass dog that got along well with my kids. However, one day I turned my back for a minute and my son who was about 4 at the time climbed on his back and the next thing I knew he bit him right on the mouth. However, I blamed myself for that incident because I never expected in a million years Porker was capable of that. So I learned my lesson and made sure they weren't left alone ever again.

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    Great Marquises TheLittleFriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Special2bme View Post

    I once had a loberman, half lab, half doberman. He was a sweet big ass dog that got along well with my kids. However, one day I turned my back for a minute and my son who was about 4 at the time climbed on his back and the next thing I knew he bit him right on the mouth. However, I blamed myself for that incident because I never expected in a million years Porker was capable of that. So I learned my lesson and made sure they weren't left alone ever again.
    I adores dogs, too. But my children are important. I had a lab, named Luke. Very very nice and quiet. When I played with Luke with red rag....I threw it somewhere in living room....Luke couldn't find it. Luke saw my son's red shirt (my son was a year old) He grabbed back of my son's shirt, shaked. I freaked out, my reactions made Luke scared....holding onto my son's shirt. He was pulling my son back as I walked toward to him. I waited for more than 40 minutes for Luke to let my son go. Very very frightening experience. I had let Luke go....back to animal shelter.

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  19. #11
    Duke crickett's Avatar
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    Odd....dogs are colour blind. I've never had a dog do anything like that. I'm so glad that your son was o.k.

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    Grand Baronet pissedoffindaytona's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crickett View Post
    Odd....dogs are colour blind. I've never had a dog do anything like that. I'm so glad that your son was o.k.
    That's what I thought too, but I had a doberman who was facinated by bic lighters, for some crazy reason, she was able to pick out the color lighter we asked for from 5 different colored lighters, It was truly a strange trick, we never taught her that, Rip Rika

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  23. #13
    Great Marquises TheLittleFriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crickett View Post
    Odd....dogs are colour blind. I've never had a dog do anything like that. I'm so glad that your son was o.k.
    I thought it, too. When I return Luke back to animal shelter.....they just told me that his former owner abused him. I wish they told me before I adopt Luke. His former owner beated Luke with pipe with red rag wrapped.

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  25. #14
    Angry Sunshine MISSanthropic's Avatar
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    I'm just happy these dogs have another chance.

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  27. #15
    Grand Knight maryhaze's Avatar
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    i think that nothing i say will be of help here. but i do tell everyone that i adopt to everything i know about the dog. including their histories with my kids. & all my adoptive dogs are around my kids.

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  29. #16
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    New England Patriots Say They're Not Interested in Michael Vick

    FOXBOROUGH, Mass.
    — Patriots owner Robert Kraft suggests that New England has little interest in signing Michael Vick.

    Kraft says the team doesn't need the former Atlanta Falcons star because the Patriots already have the best quarterback in Tom Brady.

    Patriots coach Bill Belichick praised Vicks' ability last week when he was conditionally reinstated by the NFL after serving 18 months in prison for running a dogfighting ring.

    Kraft spoke about Vick during a Sirius NFL Radio show broadcast from Gillette Stadium on Saturday.

    His comments were reported in Sunday's Boston Globe.

    The Patriots on Sunday confirmed the essence of Kraft's remarks. A transcript of the show was not available.
    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,536180,00.html

    For every murdered child
    We fly with all prevailing winds of change,
    For any quirk of fate we may arrange.
    We are not "meek" or "mild";
    Don't turn your back when twilight dims the sky -
    We'll haunt the perpetrators till they Die
    "Rescuing one animal may not change the world, but for that animal their world is changed forever!" - Unknown

  30. #17
    Grand Count thehesbomb's Avatar
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    Go Pats!!!
    you think you're god's gift
    you're a liar...
    I wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire

  31. #18
    Great Knight smallwonder4's Avatar
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    I hope the other teams feel the same.

  32. #19
    Marshal crown's Avatar
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    Well they need something, .

    And that is the nicest thing I can say.

  33. #20
    Great Count ineedanap's Avatar
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    I hope nobody picks him up. That would send a powerful message.

  34. #21
    Baptized N Dirty Water
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    I am outta thanks but TY E1!! I am glad to see E1s response to this guy.When this first happened I watched a show on CNN and they were saying that hes basically done.Nobody will touch him with a 10 foot pole and I remember thinking yeah right!!But from what I have seen this past week Im thinking maybe they were right and I am glad!!Hes doesnt deserve second chance.I usually believe everyone does but he killed and tortured dogs with his bare hands!!Just PURE RAW EVIL!!.I feel hes caused his own demise of his career and this is one person Id like to see done as a football .player

    For every murdered child
    We fly with all prevailing winds of change,
    For any quirk of fate we may arrange.
    We are not "meek" or "mild";
    Don't turn your back when twilight dims the sky -
    We'll haunt the perpetrators till they Die
    "Rescuing one animal may not change the world, but for that animal their world is changed forever!" - Unknown

  35. #22
    Super Bowl XLV Champions! MichaelJCheaney's Avatar
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    Cleveland could pick him up.

    Then he would be playing in the Dawg Pound......

  36. #23
    Grand Marquises
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    Quote Originally Posted by whisperswing View Post
    I am outta thanks but TY E1!! I am glad to see E1s response to this guy.When this first happened I watched a show on CNN and they were saying that hes basically done.Nobody will touch him with a 10 foot pole and I remember thinking yeah right!!But from what I have seen this past week Im thinking maybe they were right and I am glad!!Hes doesnt deserve second chance.I usually believe everyone does but he killed and tortured dogs with his bare hands!!Just PURE RAW EVIL!!.I feel hes caused his own demise of his career and this is one person Id like to see done as a football .player
    No one wants him because he's not a very good QB and had a very expensive price tag
    There was some good marketing behind him before, lot of BS about being exciting and more BS. A team could never win a championship with him and after seen him play they all know that. But some one will sign him if they can get him cheap enough
    If he was a top tier QB he would've been signed already and the high powered marketing machine would have been churning out the BS. But he's not great only OK at quarterback not worth the trouble.

  37. #24
    Super Bowl XLV Champions! MichaelJCheaney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thehesbomb View Post
    Go Pats!!!
    And take the Red Sox with you.....Please!!!!!

  38. #25
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    Michael Vick In MLB?

    As you may have heard, convicted felon Michael Vick was reinstated by the NFL after serving a 20-month prison sentence for his involvement in a dog-fighting ring. Although interest in Vick among NFL teams entering the weekend appeared tepid, we suggest he try baseball instead. He was, after all, picked in the 30th round of the 2000 MLB draft. Here are five teams who might be willing to give him a chance:

    5.Colorado Rockies. It was the Rockies who drafted Vick in 2000 (887th overall), despite the fact he hadn't played baseball since eighth grade. "The way he ran around the [football] field," Rockies scouting director Bill Schmidt said at the time, "we figure he could track down some balls in the outfield at Coors Field."

    4.St. Louis Cardinals. It's hard to imagine Vick playing for Manager Tony La Russa, a PETA supporter who started his own foundation for rescuing abandoned animals. On the other hand, if the Cardinals' higher-ups really want to run La Russa out of town . . .


    3.New York Mets. Sure, they're a train wreck. But they could represent Vick's quickest route to the big leagues, given that they're running an outfield of Cory Sullivan, Angel Pagán and Jeff Francoeur out there these days. And besides, GM Omar Minaya could use something to distract fans from his own bizarre behavior.

    2.Washington Nationals. Okay, this joke worked better when Jim Bowden was still the GM, with his fetish for toolsy outfielders and troubled second-chancers. But even in the post-Bowden era, the team continues to employ Elijah Dukes, who once allegedly threatened to kill his wife and her kids. So they can't use the excuse that their standards are too high.

    1.San Francisco Giants. Hey, if fans there could embrace Barry Bonds for 15 years, they can embrace anyone.
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...080101971.html
    Dear Mommy...I see you smile down there below...are those tears of joy you show? I'm glad you're happy, although you lied...I'd love to be right by your side...but by your choice, I view from above...tell my Grandparents I send my love...it's Beautiful here, is all I can say...your life will go on... without me in your way. Love Caylee XOXO......
    NO JUSTICE FOR CAYLEE - copyright that!

  39. #26
    The Shakedown King Pete Bondurant's Avatar
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    Yet know, my master, God omnipotent,
    Is mustering in his clouds on our behalf
    Armies of pestilence; and they shall strike
    Your children yet unborn and unbegot,
    That lift your vassal hands against my head
    And threat the glory of my precious crown.

  40. #27
    Grand Marquises
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    Barry Bonds? You can't equate abusing steroids with abusing animals.

  41. #28
    Grand King
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    I was secretly hoping this would happen.

  42. #29
    Baptized N Dirty Water
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    I really need to clean out my saved emails.I have looked for this for 2 days I knew I had saved it for a reason to use it!!

    For every murdered child
    We fly with all prevailing winds of change,
    For any quirk of fate we may arrange.
    We are not "meek" or "mild";
    Don't turn your back when twilight dims the sky -
    We'll haunt the perpetrators till they Die
    "Rescuing one animal may not change the world, but for that animal their world is changed forever!" - Unknown

  43. #30
    Super Bowl XLV Champions! MichaelJCheaney's Avatar
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    Green Bay Packers interested in Michael Vick?

    GREEN BAY, Wis. (AP) -- The Packers aren't ruling out Michael Vick.

    Asked whether Green Bay might be interested in the scandal-tainted quarterback, general manager Ted Thompson didn't rule it out Tuesday.
    But that doesn't necessarily mean the Packers are in hot pursuit of Vick. Thompson is notoriously coy about the team's plans, so it wasn't immediately clear whether his comments indicated a sincere and significant level of interest.
    "What is the answer that we give to questions like this? We're always looking to improve our team," Thompson said. "We look at all options at all times. I wouldn't care to speculate in terms of the odds or the percentages (of signing Vick) or anything like that."
    But they've at least discussed Vick internally?
    "We look at everything," Thompson said.
    SI.com

    Honestly even considering bring in Michael Vick would be the stupidest thing Ted Thompson could do. And he has done plenty of stupid...remember a certain QB named Brett Favre?

    We have a VERY capable QB in Aaron Rogers, and our defense is undergoing a huge transformation from a 4-3 to a 3-4 which means that all of our defensive guys are learning an entirely new system, which in and of itself is a Major distraction.

    Bringing in Michael Vick would just add to the distraction level, even if he was only to come in as a running back, and eliminating the possibility of him playing QB, just having Michael Vick in camp could cause damage to Rogers psyche.

    Why add yet another distraction to a team that is coming off a 6-10 year, and is by its own admission is in the process of "rebuilding"?

    Ted Thompson. You are an idiot!
    Last edited by MichaelJCheaney; August 4th, 2009 at 09:31 PM. Reason: Added Link

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