Church-Goers Prefer Racial Segregation

[Athena]

It's been a few years since I've been to any church for any reason. When I was going to church, however, the churches varied, both spiritually and racially. My experience certainly mirrors the facts laid out in this CNN article (http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/wayoflife/08/04/segregated.sundays/index.html) about racial segregation in U.S. churches.


The Rev. Paul Earl Sheppard had recently become the senior pastor of a suburban church in California when a group of parishioners came to him with a disturbing personal question.

They were worried because the racial makeup of their small church was changing. They warned Sheppard that the church's newest members would try to seize control because members of their race were inherently aggressive. What was he was going to do if more of "them" tried to join their church?

"One man asked me if I was prepared for a hostile takeover," says Sheppard, pastor of Abundant Life Christian Fellowship in Mountain View, California.

The nervous parishioners were African-American, and the church's newcomers were white. Sheppard says the experience demonstrated why racially integrated churches are difficult to create and even harder to sustain.

The article continues on to address the fact that less than 5% of the nation's congregations are racially integrated. They define racially integrated as at least 20% of the congregation being of a race different from that of the majority. Also, of the few that are integrated, many are moving toward segregation.

Does your congregation find itself segregated? Is it simply because people like to be around their own, or is it something more than that?

[Mandella]

From Wiki:

"The term Diaspora (in Greek, διασπορά – "a scattering or sowing of seeds") refers to the forced or voluntary dispersal of any population sharing common ethnic identity to leave their settled territory, and become residents in areas often far removed from the former. It is converse to the nomadic form of lifestyle. Diaspora cultural development often assumes a different course to the population in the original place of settlement, and tends to vary between remotely separated communities in culture, traditions and other factors. The last vestige of cultural affiliation in a Diaspora is usually found in community resistance to language change."

I think this answers a lot. Granted, many African slaves were kept from openly practicing any religion at all, but their tradition still survived in bits and pieces, shared through verbal storytelling, song, dance, etc.

I imagine they want to continue sharing a common thread, common ancestors...

As whites notice all the fun had at traditionally black churches, it's no wonder they're wanting to get in on the action.

[Mandella]

Does your congregation find itself segregated?

PS I Can't answer this question, because I don't do organized religion.

[WryBread]

"They warned Sheppard that the church's newest members would try to seize control because members of their race were inherently aggressive ... The nervous parishioners were African-American, and the church's newcomers were white."

This made me laugh out loud! Sounds like these fine Christians were a little RACIST!

I personally find the yipping and yowling (in my view) hop-about of the traditional black church to be quite off-putting. And I dislike the stand-up-and-sit-down-and-yawn of the traditional white protestant church to be equally strange. So I don't go to churches though it would be of an immense benefit to me in the area in which I live. I would have an instant community and its support. But that's another thread.

I think the racial divide begins with a traditional difference in style of worship. When black people don't want whites to join because they are white, well, that's racism.

[WryBread]

Oops. Computer operator problems!

[Pete Bondurant]

I worship a rabid baboon named Horace. He carries a switch-blade knife and threatens passers-by in order to obtain money, so that he may purchase jelly-doughnuts. He does not pay taxes.

[Countess Olenska]

Doesn't matter how you slice it, people huddle in like masses.

[The Diabolical Mr. Lieman]

Black churches have been racist for a long, long time. And african americans have been getting away with blatant racism for decades. But sure, even this is mostly met with scratching of heads, unlike the vitriol that would come out if it were a white church.....

[Aelwynn]

I'm not racist by any means at all. However, being white I have noticed the "race" card pulled many times. The other day a black kid threatened my daughter, I told him to stay the hell away from my kid...the mother assumed it was because he was black and called me on it. My response? "No, it's because you can't control your damn kid". Hell half the time I've personally seen the race card thrown - race is usually a nonissue. These types people are either trying to get out of something they did (traffic ticket, murder) OR they are just pure racist assholes throwing stones in glass houses. This is probably just the types of people I have encountered thus far, however I find it appalling.

There is plenty of racism across the USA against ALL races. It just happens that the news and protests are usually directed AGAINST the white race. You see it all the time...asians, mexicans, people of spanish decent, black people...but how often do you see a WHITE person pull the race card? How often have you been called a cracker and NOT said that the person saying it was racist? I know for a fact I've turned my back on quite a few "cracker" comments, and all because I KNOW when it came down to it...the cops would most likely laugh at me if I said that person was racist. Not because they didn't believe (most likely wouldn't), but because it's damn hard to prove a BLACK person is racist when they are the supposed minority. I guess that gives minorities free reign to say whatever they want about me. (From what I've seen anyways)

If this was a news story about black people being segregated against, how much do you want to bet there would be over 3,000 people picketting that church? Whereas when it happens to white people, we are supposed to roll over and take another "kick". I'd personally pickett this church myself, if I had the time, but how many other people would show up? 10? Maybe 15 tops. As a society, the caucasian side puts up with a lot racial things and we're basically told to suck it up. This church thing doesn't surprise me at all.

I've gone to maybe 2 black majority churches when I was trying to discover my own personal "faith". One of which I was kicked out of. The reason? My kind isn't welcome there. I'm the reason for them being enslaved etc etc. Yeah, I heard all this as I was being kindly "escorted" from the church. Did I play the race card? Heck no. Did I make a big stint out of it and come back later with thousands of people? Nah, I deal with this crap all the time.

The 2nd church I went to opened their doors to me with open arms. Then no one would sit near me. Almost like I had the plague. So they let me in, but they weren't exactly "friendly". No one even said a word to me after the service. They all just whispered and stared at me while I got into my car. "No, I am NOT a reporter." "No, I didn't come here to denounce your faith." I'm surprised they didn't turn into a mob and try to jump my car...that's how many bad looks I was getting.

No I wasn't lurred to these two churches just because of their "fun". I was just spreading my wings and trying to decide which (if any) church was right for myself. Needless to say, those two experiences were NOT fun for me at all.

The church I did pick does not segregate. It doesn't denounce other religions either. I don't feel like an outcast nor do I feel like I'm in the majority, even if I might be. Hell my church-going babysitter is black and she's the nicest person I've met there.

I guess surprisingly enough, I agree with Lieman. I usually don't agree with him/her on things, but I do this time. There is a lot of blatant racism out there, yet no one stands up against it..unless it is a minority in attack.

Yes, I know I kind of spread the topic wider with some of my comments...however, I feel that racism in churches should also be applied to racism in the world. It's not just the churches we need to worry about, it's everywhere. I guess my official opinion is: Racism will never end as long as people keep pulling the race card/hate crimes. It won't die out if people are still using it.

[brokenandtwisted]

It's been a few years since I've been to any church for any reason. When I was going to church, however, the churches varied, both spiritually and racially. My experience certainly mirrors the facts laid out in this CNN article (http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/wayoflife/08/04/segregated.sundays/index.html) about racial segregation in U.S. churches.



The article continues on to address the fact that less than 5% of the nation's congregations are racially integrated. They define racially integrated as at least 20% of the congregation being of a race different from that of the majority. Also, of the few that are integrated, many are moving toward segregation.

Does your congregation find itself segregated? Is it simply because people like to be around their own, or is it something more than that?

Look at the material they're praising and worshipping. Most of their discrimination is firmly rooted in the bullshit they believe in. I think that sort of settles the matter, eh?

I'm not opposing religions, but I know bullshit when I see it.

[polis]

I'm not racist by any means at all. However, being white I have noticed the "race" card pulled many times. The other day a black kid threatened my daughter, I told him to stay the hell away from my kid...the mother assumed it was because he was black and called me on it. My response? "No, it's because you can't control your damn kid". Hell half the time I've personally seen the race card thrown - race is usually a nonissue. These types people are either trying to get out of something they did (traffic ticket, murder) OR they are just pure racist assholes throwing stones in glass houses. This is probably just the types of people I have encountered thus far, however I find it appalling.

There is plenty of racism across the USA against ALL races. It just happens that the news and protests are usually directed AGAINST the white race. You see it all the time...asians, mexicans, people of spanish decent, black people...but how often do you see a WHITE person pull the race card? How often have you been called a cracker and NOT said that the person saying it was racist? I know for a fact I've turned my back on quite a few "cracker" comments, and all because I KNOW when it came down to it...the cops would most likely laugh at me if I said that person was racist. Not because they didn't believe (most likely wouldn't), but because it's damn hard to prove a BLACK person is racist when they are the supposed minority. I guess that gives minorities free reign to say whatever they want about me. (From what I've seen anyways)

If this was a news story about black people being segregated against, how much do you want to bet there would be over 3,000 people picketting that church? Whereas when it happens to white people, we are supposed to roll over and take another "kick". I'd personally pickett this church myself, if I had the time, but how many other people would show up? 10? Maybe 15 tops. As a society, the caucasian side puts up with a lot racial things and we're basically told to suck it up. This church thing doesn't surprise me at all.

I've gone to maybe 2 black majority churches when I was trying to discover my own personal "faith". One of which I was kicked out of. The reason? My kind isn't welcome there. I'm the reason for them being enslaved etc etc. Yeah, I heard all this as I was being kindly "escorted" from the church. Did I play the race card? Heck no. Did I make a big stint out of it and come back later with thousands of people? Nah, I deal with this crap all the time.

The 2nd church I went to opened their doors to me with open arms. Then no one would sit near me. Almost like I had the plague. So they let me in, but they weren't exactly "friendly". No one even said a word to me after the service. They all just whispered and stared at me while I got into my car. "No, I am NOT a reporter." "No, I didn't come here to denounce your faith." I'm surprised they didn't turn into a mob and try to jump my car...that's how many bad looks I was getting.

No I wasn't lurred to these two churches just because of their "fun". I was just spreading my wings and trying to decide which (if any) church was right for myself. Needless to say, those two experiences were NOT fun for me at all.

The church I did pick does not segregate. It doesn't denounce other religions either. I don't feel like an outcast nor do I feel like I'm in the majority, even if I might be. Hell my church-going babysitter is black and she's the nicest person I've met there.

I guess surprisingly enough, I agree with Lieman. I usually don't agree with him/her on things, but I do this time. There is a lot of blatant racism out there, yet no one stands up against it..unless it is a minority in attack.

Yes, I know I kind of spread the topic wider with some of my comments...however, I feel that racism in churches should also be applied to racism in the world. It's not just the churches we need to worry about, it's everywhere. I guess my official opinion is: Racism will never end as long as people keep pulling the race card/hate crimes. It won't die out if people are still using it.


I agree with you that the race card is thrown out a lot. So is the ethnicity card, national card, and gender card.

I don't think that most racism is against white people. I believe each race, and ethnicity (mind you latinos are considered white) get their fair share.

I'm never thrown the right race card, usually people call me wetback.. but i'm of european ancestry with a dash of tsalgi. lol. so i find it funny.

anyhow back to topic.

I don't believe in religion. however, before I started ditching sunday school at the age of 12. The congregation was mixed.. maybe because I lived by the military base? eh. not sure.

[Aelwynn]

Oh I agree with you Polis. I don't think there is a majority of racism AGAINST white people. Hell, I don't even know which race is attacked the most. Half of the racism I see is only because I live in a black majority neighborhood.

I can't even begin to come up with the numbers for racism against whites vs. racism against blacks. I don't even know where to look. I just know that there is racism against EVERY race, and it most likely won't end soon.

Just like Polis said, I've seen the race, religion, gender card pulled a lot. Do you know how many people out there would judge me if they knew my official religion? And that's with them only hearing my religion's name. (Which is why I didn't state it - nor will I) They usually don't know specifically what I believe in, nor do they care to. These people instantly assume one thing and hate me for it. So I usually don't even bother mentioning it.

But... I dislike ANYONE that pulls the race, religion, gender card. To me, it's like a cop out. I don't need to use any of these "cards", so no one else should.

I'm not really sure I know what that specific church worships...unlike brokenandtwisted, I didn't get to see personally what those churches REALLY believed in. I was too busy being escorted or stared at. It might be the long standing beliefs like B-A-T said. I never really considered it until he/she mentioned it. Good point.

Edit: I didn't even know what Tsalgi was until I googled it. Shows how much I know about how many different races there are.

[Athena]

Black churches have been racist for a long, long time. And african americans have been getting away with blatant racism for decades. But sure, even this is mostly met with scratching of heads, unlike the vitriol that would come out if it were a white church.....

Lieman, the point of the article is that segregation is standard among 95% of the nation's churches, black OR white.

[Mandella]

A couple of the black ladies in my office go to the same church. They said their church is an all black segregation, except for one of their husband's and his father.

She said that she thinks it's silly that anyone would be upset about whites coming into their predominantly black church; she'd be just fine with that new influx of believers, regardless of their color.

I think this is probably the way a lot of good Christians feel. The entire idea is about spreading the faith and loving your fellow [hu]man....

I think probably, after desegregation elsewhere, there wasn't a large portion on either side of the fence saying "hey, let's go over to their church for this Sunday's services." Most likely the segregation just remained and is still there today. A reminder of how recent our civil rights movement actually was...

[Athena]

I think probably, after desegregation elsewhere, there wasn't a large portion on either side of the fence saying "hey, let's go over to their church for this Sunday's services." Most likely the segregation just remained and is still there today. A reminder of how recent our civil rights movement actually was...

I'd generally agree with you, except for the fact that the article stated that half of integrated churches are moving toward segregation. That, to me, is telling. I don't know that it specifically speaks to racism, necessarily, more than the differences between worship practices, or the natural tendency for people to be around their own.