Date Rape

[gprime]

As I mentioned in another thread, in preparation for starting college, I've opted to read the highly regarded tip book The Naked Roommate. Naturally, some of the tips in the book pertain to alcohol, as it is the first time that many people have easy access to it, meaning that many people abuse it in a dangerous fashion. The author therefore cautions against engaging in drunk sex, and essentially warns women to be vigilant against "date rape". But as I read the tip, it struck me what an absurd notion it is.

Rape is wrong, and I don't think any rational individual would dare argue otherwise, excluding prison rape faced by violent scumbags in jail. But is "date rape" really rape? I don't believe so. Sure, it might not be a popular sentiment, but I believe it needs to be said. Rape involves a non-consenting party being sexually assaulted. The victim is aware of what is going on, and expresses an objection to it. They are in a sound state of mind, and reject the advances of another person, who ignores this and continues anyway. "Date rape" is quite a bit different. In it, the supposed victim does consent to the act, and merely regrets it later. The idea is that their state of mind was altered, and their judgement was impaired, thereby preventing them from acting in accordance with what is typical of them, rendering it impossible for the person to give their consent. But I don't buy that one bit. Coercion, blackmail, or abuse is not used. The person still issues consent of their own free will, and are making decisions influenced solely by their own indiscretions. They chose to drink, knowing full well what can come of it, and then in a drunk stupor, issued consent that they might otherwise withhold. In other words, it is their own fault that their inhibitions were lowered, and absent of any force or threats being used, they granted permission for the act to take place. As far as I'm concerned, "date rape" is just a way to absolve irresponsible drinkers of personal responsibility, in keeping with said trend in US law. I would therefore suggest that such laws be repealed.

(In case it wasn't clear, I am not including those who were slipped roofies or other such drugs without their knowledge. In that case, rape charges should still be brought. However, that is often not the case, with inexperienced drinkers merely seeking an excuse. Those cases are bullshit, and must be halted.)

[I am Legend]

sounds like you are confusing drunk sex with rape. being drunk does not mean you are giving a green light to having sex (unless you are a guy). plenty of women get drunk and still refuse sex, and are still raped. drunk does not equal consent. you seem to be talking about day after regret, which is not the same thing.

[swivel]

Sadly, though, the day-after regret is what causes some date-rape allegations. And the more you tell yourself you didn't want it, the more you start believing that you were trying to stop it. This happens all the time with alcohol. You wake up the next morning and the Sober you is wondering what the fuck the Drunk you was thinking when you hooked up with that girl/boy.

For men, this is usually followed by regret and avoidance. But, since they stuck their manhood in the girl, how can they claim rape? The girl feels this and experiences regret, shame, fear, rejection, many more complex emotions. The feel it was a mistake, and they remember asking the boy "Should we be doing this?" or "I'm not sure I want to go all the way" or "Shouldn't we save something for next time?"

This gets falsely remembered as a "No!", and the rejection leads to an accusation, ruining some moron's life.

And no, I am not debasing the accusation of rape, on the contrary, anyone who condones this passive-resistance-turned-rape-charge is devaluing the tragedy of rape. What these drunken idiots go through is not what a woman goes through who is yelling "No!", pounding a guys chest, struggling, and having sex anyway.

Here's a new law being considered: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=462614
It makes sex with any woman too drunk to decide whether or not she wants sex considered rape. I think it is a brilliant law. Gradual Prohibition would be better, of course, but this is a nice step. It might cut down on the drinking somewhat and guys would start asking women to slow down their intake rather than trying to get them comatose so they can get "lucky".

[dop]

sounds like you are confusing drunk sex with rape. being drunk does not mean you are giving a green light to having sex (unless you are a guy). plenty of women get drunk and still refuse sex, and are still raped. drunk does not equal consent. you seem to be talking about day after regret, which is not the same thing.

Im with legend here, there is a diference between given drunken consent that they migth regret the next day and not giving consent but being rendered much weaker(or even inconcious) by the alcohol and then being forced upon wich is a very comon ocurrence.

Some irresponsable assholes feel the day after regret and claim rape puting wichever poor fucker fucked em througth a trial but that doesnt make the real cases of women being forced upon any less valid.

[Killroy]

Here's a new law being considered: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=462614
It makes sex with any woman too drunk to decide whether or not she wants sex considered rape.

Well that's a lot different from what I thought you were implying. If a woman is too drunk to decide whether she wants sex or not, then she has not given consent. That's a far cry from making fucking a drunk chick illegal.

From the article:

"Where the complainant has voluntarily consumed even substantial quantities of alcohol, but nevertheless remains capable of choosing whether or not to have intercourse, and in drink agrees to do so, this would not be rape."

So, for those of you who don't fuck chicks who are passed out, carry on as usual. Fuck it if she regrets it the next day. Hell, I've regretted things the next day after waking up beside somebody I got with the night before.

[brokenandtwisted]

Rape in general terms is defined as a 'violation', or 'to treat something in a violent, destructive, abusive way'. Does date rape go hand in hand with the definition of rape? Yes...it does, and I think gprime is confused over what date rape is, and what drunken sex is.

[gprime]

Rape in general terms is defined as a 'violation', or 'to treat something in a violent, destructive, abusive way'. Does date rape go hand in hand with the definition of rape? Yes...it does, and I think gprime is confused over what date rape is, and what drunken sex is.

I really don't think I am. Often times, drunken consent is given, but the man is later accused of date rape. Might it be true that he forced himself on the girl against her drunken will? Yes, but that is quite rare, seeing as how alcohol lowers inhibitions, making her more likely to issue consent when intoxicated. The only time that "date rape" should ever be treated the same as rape is when drunken consent is not given (cannot really be proven, so in those cases, the man would have to be let off), or if the woman was sliped a roofie or something similar (can be proven).

[Athena]

Lordy...

When dealing with this particularly slippery issue, some gray area or misapplication of the law is simply unavoidable.

Gprime - Date rape specifically refers to forceful rape under "date-like" circumstances. Unfortunately, there ARE cases that involve women who regret giving consent and end up filing charges. This is no different, however, in my eyes and the eyes of the law, than false reporting. There are procedures regarding date rape cases that help to weed out the false charges (they DO try to obtain physical evidence like tears in vaginal tissue, bruises, etc.), but, due to the nature of rape cases, there will be a few undeserving charges that slip through the cracks. This is no different than any other crime people can be falsely accused of.


Now...Let me take a moment to THANK FUCKING GOD that I do not live in the U.K. with their absolutely retarded maternal legislation. I am a regular lush...I drink socially, and I'm quite social. I've been drunk countless times and I have never had an even questionable sexual experience. But because some bitches can't manage to stand by their decisions, I should have a hard time obtaining a booty call simply because I've had a few? Fuck that...Drunk sex is awesome. God bless America.

The U.K. is going to run into some serious issues down the line if they keep enacting legislation that undermines the concept of personal responsibility. After all, why regulate my behavior if the government is going to do it for me? Where are they going to draw the line?

Lastly, I'm tired of legislation that cuts people slack simply because they're drunk. You know what? They right-mindedly consented to drinking and that's all the right mind we should require to hold people responsible for their actions while drunk. Don't think you should be held accountable for drunk behavior? DON'T DRINK. :mad: