Care to spare a limb?

[Athena]

So, I've had this strange fascination with Body Integrity Identity Disorder since I first heard about it a couple of years ago. Today, I mentioned it in another thread, only to stumble across a fatty front-page Newsweek article about it. This was just too much. Now, I'm compelled to discuss it.

For those who aren't aware, this is a rare disorder that causes people to want to paralyze or amputate their limbs. Sometimes one, sometimes some, sometimes all. No matter which way you slice it (pardon the insensitive humor), this shit is pretty foreign to those of us who go out of our way to keep out limbs attached.

So, much like gender identity disorder, there are two camps - those who believe it is an inherent or hard-wired trait and those who think it is a mental illness. The difference is, while the camps are undecided in regard to GID, people with GID have access to sexual reassignment surgery. People with BIID have a bitch of a time finding a doctor who will perform an amputation for them. In fact, there's only one doctor who has performed these surgeries on record (two, to be exact), and now the hospital he works for is keeping him away from the scalples altogether.

This disorder isn't even officially recognized yet, even though it's been around for awhile. The article cites a case in 1785 when a man forced a surgeon to amputate at gunpoint, sending the surgeon a thank-you note afterward. I'm on no position to speculate regarding whether or not the disorder is a natural occurance or a bad brain. What I would like to discuss, however...

Should we give these folks access to amputation? If we don't, it seems that a fair portion of them will take things into their own hands, putting themselves at serious risk and, occassionally, dying as the result of their injuries. If letting them remove a limb makes them truly happy, shouldn't we provide them that ability?

Article (http://www.newsweek.com/id/138932/page/1)

Oh, and an independent film premiering 6/13. (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0414426/) I wonder where, though.

[CPL CHUD]

I'm getting a major Evil Dead vibe here.

http://filmjournal.net/danielstephens/files/2007/05/evildeadhand.jpg

This seems to me like a flat out disorder. It doesn't make any biological sense to want to be a cripple, then again, I don't see any reason why we shouldn't let these people seek professional help, like surgeons, to "remedy" their situation. It seems like a personal matter, a radical cosmetic reassignment.

[celtic friend]

I think we should treat them for a mental illness since that is obviously what they have. Ok for instance if someone is depressed and suicidal so do we hand them a noose to hang themselves? No we try and treat them.

[Rotten Apple]

My main concern with this is that if we allow these people to amputate limbs, do we also allow them to claim a disability as a result of that amputation? Should they receive disability benefits for physical impairments after the amputation if they did not otherwise qualify for them BEFORE the amputation (as a result if a mental disorder, etc.)?

Also, are their professionals out there that would evaluate these people for amputation like we have for gender reassignment surgery? You have to qualify for gender reassignment surgery. The person has to live as the opposite sex for a period of time before they can have the surgery. How can you live as an amputee before having this surgery?

I'm just not ready to accept this as valid as GID. There needs to be more research.

[w8ng4msrgt]

When I worked for the state in a "school" there were 2 guys there that chewed off their fingers. I can't remember what it is called right now.

[Unamused Cat]

That is a very freaky disorder. I seem to recall an episode on tv, maybe CSI, where people had this disorder, and the more limbs they lost, the higher their status was in their odd community.

No, I don't believe these wackos should be allowed to have their bodies mulitated. They will just end up on govt disability and end up costing the rest of us.

[jlt080405]

I actually watched a special on this disorder, neither myself or my partner can currently recall which channel it was on. It was great, they actually showed multiple perspectives. If I remember correctly at least one of the persons wished they hadn't done it. I seem to think it was somewhere overseas though.

It was a great documentary, I hadn't since given it much thought until this post. Great post, thank you!

[Jaded]

If I remember correctly at least one of the persons wished they hadn't done it. I seem to think it was somewhere overseas though.


That's why I would think they should work on treatment instead of allowing amputation. What happens if/when an amputee changes their mind about the whole thing?

[Athena]

I think we should treat them for a mental illness since that is obviously what they have. Ok for instance if someone is depressed and suicidal so do we hand them a noose to hang themselves? No we try and treat them.

Well...

There's evidence that the vast majority of depression can be successfully treated through therapy or medication or a combination thereof. This doesn't appear to be the case with BIID. Severe depression runs in my family. I've got a dad who, when I was young, would literally not leave the bedroom for a week except to go to the bathroom. When you got the rare opportunity to speak with him, his voice was flat and melancholy, and you could practically see the suicidal thoughts flash behind his eyes. But he was able to get treatment, so these episodes were temporary and intermittent (and have all but disappeared, now). From everything I read, BIID is a constant, burning urge. Damn near every person interviewed talks about how they've tried psychotherapy, medication, support groups, etc., and nothing even makes the slightest dent.

It's not like these folks are out of touch. In every other facet of their lives, they function completely normally. This is not some psychotic break; these aren't delusions. That's what makes the disorder so vexing to professionals and frustrating to those who suffer from it. Did you happen to read the article I linked to? In it, they interview a young man who eventually cut his own hand off, but didn't use his real name because he didn't want his family to know how he lost it. These aren't crazies who don't even know they're crazy. And this certainly can't be compared to depression or anxiety, both of which impair your ability to function.

If you had an extra limb, say, growing out of your stomach, wouldn't you hope they'd fix that? That's what it seems to be like to these people. That limb (or limbs) is excess. It shouldn't be there. Can you imagine how horrifying that would be?

[CPL CHUD]

If they seek treatment, and are treated with a cosmetic amputation, make it perfectly clear that it'll be illegal for them to be able to collect disability. Document their illness thoroughly so they never escape the paper trail and charge top dollar for services rendered. Catering to these few radical cases isn't going to make much difference anyways when thousands more are scamming the system out of disability dollars every day. I'm more concerned about the people that don't even have this disorder and are filling disability when they are perfectly capable of working.

[Athena]

My main concern with this is that if we allow these people to amputate limbs, do we also allow them to claim a disability as a result of that amputation? Should they receive disability benefits for physical impairments after the amputation if they did not otherwise qualify for them BEFORE the amputation (as a result if a mental disorder, etc.)?

Also, are their professionals out there that would evaluate these people for amputation like we have for gender reassignment surgery? You have to qualify for gender reassignment surgery. The person has to live as the opposite sex for a period of time before they can have the surgery. How can you live as an amputee before having this surgery?

I'm just not ready to accept this as valid as GID. There needs to be more research.

A great consideration (about the disability payments). Of course, we ought to be able to solve that problem by having them sign a waiver so that they can't claim disablity for that particular injury, no? I don't know. But it seems like it could be a feasible option for the few people in the country who would aim to amputate limbs. I'm sure these people would gladly sign.

I believe there would be professionals out there who would evaluate these people. In fact, giving these people that avenue would make it MUCH safer for them. Not that I think there are a lot of people who are like, "Ooh! I want a limb severed!" only to be like, "Oops, maybe not," but if there were, professional assessments would surely limit this number, if not eliminate it entirely. Also, I do believe these people could simulate the amputation for a period of time. Many interviewed talk about pretending frequently throughout the day or whenever they're alone. Some use wheelchairs, all the time, even though they don't actually need them (yet).

I don't think it is valid, necessarily. I don't think GID is, either. I mean, c'mon...these people are clearly short circuted. Both disorders are biologically detrimental. GID is just easier for a person to wrap their mind around, because human sexuality is far from rigid. We've got drag queens and bull dykes to ease us into accepting GID, but that doesn't make it any more normal to want to alter your plumming surgically.

I feel like, at the end of the day, these people are doing it anyway, which is more than we could say for gender reassignment, back before it became an accepted procedure. But the arguments against elective amputation are the same (except for the disability claim one) as they were against gender reassignment, but now we're even performing gender reassignment on kids. My, how far our weirdos have come.

[Athena]

That's why I would think they should work on treatment instead of allowing amputation. What happens if/when an amputee changes their mind about the whole thing?

I can't imagine how harsh that would be to have lost a limb and have no one to blame but yourself, but we can't deny thousands of people treatment because the occasional one may have made a mistake, right? There's all sorts of unnecessary, elective surgery going on in this country. I'm sure the medical community would come up with an assessment not unlike that for GID or more extreme cosmetic surgery.