Enitire family dead in hallway

[Pene784]

So Sad. Not enough details yet




SAN CLEMENTE, Calif. — Several family members were found dead in a home Monday in an upscale gated community in San Clemente, in Southern California, authorities said.

Orange County sheriff's deputies were called to the rented home at about 1:30 p.m. for a domestic dispute, said sheriff's spokesman Jim Amormino.

The owner asked deputies to check in on the family because he felt like "something just wasn't right," Amormino told the Orange County Register.

Deputies arrived to find several bodies lying next to one another in a hallway, he told the Register. All the victims were from the same family.

Officials would not provide further details or identify the victims until they locate and notify other family members.

There were no survivors and no outstanding suspects, Amormino said.

Coroner's officials wheeled a gurney with a tiny body bag into one of two vans, according to the Register. Homicide detectives scoured the home looking for clues to what might have happened.

Amormino would not say how the family members died or what kind of weapon was used.

San Clemente is about halfway between Los Angeles and San Diego and has a population of roughly 65,000.


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,580236,00.html

[Aslan]

Sounds like murder-suicide.
You're right, sad :(

[Pene784]

Sounds like murder-suicide.

That is the first thing that popped into my mind as well.

[~Absynthe~]

it sounds like another recession family murder suicide.

[backlash]

Coroner's officials wheeled a gurney with a tiny body bag into one of two vans

Not good.

Why was a drug related execution the first thing to enter my mind?

[moonlilly1981]

I was thinking someone drank the kool-aid. Murder suicide

[Ninja0980]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2009/12/15/2009-12-15_members_of_same_family_found_dead_in_bloody_sce ne_at_california_mansion.html

The owner of the San Clemente house asked deputies to check in on the family because he felt like "something just wasn't right," Amormino told the Orange County Register.

Rebecca Vandehei, who lives next door, said the family who lived in the home had visitors — another family involved in some sort of court dispute.

"They had something going on in court — I don't know the details — and the outcome was not what this family wanted," she said. "It's surreal and sad and we're just worried about our neighbors," Vandehei said.

If it was a murder-suicide,this sounds like the reason for it.

[ineedanap]

The owner of the San Clemente house asked deputies to check in on the family because he felt like "something just wasn't right," Amormino told the Orange County Register.

Does anyone else find this statement strange? The landlord "felt" something was wrong?


He also said there were no survivors or outstanding suspects, but declined to provide additional details Monday night, including how many people had died.

"The scene is bloody as you would imagine with multiple victims," Amormino said.


Rebecca Vandehei, who lives next door, said the family who lived in the home had visitors — another family involved in some sort of court dispute.

"They had something going on in court — I don't know the details — and the outcome was not what this family wanted," she said. "It's surreal and sad and we're just worried about our neighbors," Vandehei said.


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,580236,00.html?test=latestnews

[moonlilly1981]

Child custoday maybe? I know everytime I have to go for custody stuff I'm ready to kill by the end.

[Echo]

They were all FEMALES. And Detectives believe it was a domestic dispute. Mother, two daughers, and a female relative.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/12/4-females-found-dead-in-san-clemente-home.html


Authorities said this morning that four people -- all females -- were killed in what detectives believe was a domestic dispute in an exclusive gated community in San Clemente.

The females were all believed to be from the same family, and there were reports from the scene that at least one of the victims was a child. They were apparently found lying together in a hallway on the second floor of the home.

The victims have not been identified.

[battery jackson]

crazy shit

[Echo]

Looks like it was a child custody dispute as you guys were saying:



Family Members Found Dead In Southern California Home

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/15/family-members-found-dead_n_392197.html

SAN CLEMENTE, Calif. — A woman killed herself and three other family members, including two young children, in what may have started as a child custody dispute in an upscale, gated Orange County community, authorities said Tuesday.

Sheriff's deputies sent to check on the welfare of the tenants were sent to a house in the Careyes community shortly before 2 p.m. Monday. They found the bodies of a 38-year-old woman and her daughters, ages 2 and 4, along with a close relative who was in her 60s, said sheriff's spokesman Jim Amormino.

The older woman leased the home and the other woman and her children were visiting, Amormino said. Nobody else was in the home at the time.

Amormino said the home's owner was outside when he called authorities to report some type of disturbance there at about 1:45 p.m., Amormino said.

"There was some noise coming from the home," Amormino said, although he offered no details.

Deputies were sent to check on the welfare of the children and found the bodies in a first-floor hallway of the red-roofed, yellow stucco house.

Their identities and the cause of death were not immediately released but it "was a very bloody scene," Amormino said.

While details remained unclear, it appeared that one of the women killed the others and then herself, he said.

Investigators were still piecing together what happened but one motive being examined was a child custody dispute, Amormino said.

"There was a custody battle going on between the mother of the little girls" and the father, Amormino said. However, the father was not considered a suspect, he said.

The couple was divorced and he was not at the home.

The deaths shocked the community, which has 42 luxury houses overlooking a golf course. The homes, with four to six bedrooms, sell for more than $1 million.

"This is an upscale community," Amormino said. "Crime is very low here."

San Clemente, with about 65,000 residents, lies near the ocean about halfway between Los Angeles and San Diego. Spanish-style mansions and exclusive neighborhoods dot its hills. One home bought by then-President Richard Nixon in the late 1960s was nicknamed the "Western White House." It was the Nixons' vacation home and he hosted several world leaders there.

[Misskittychaos]

How sad, I'll never understand killing the children in cases like these.

[Ninja0980]

It sounds like the more common case of the father killing the kids.. but mothers do it as well. It sounded like Daddy was going to get custody... and she was going to be damned if she would let that happen.

[Pete Bondurant]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_s-DS4mgvlmw/SKze9exzT4I/AAAAAAAAA9Y/h3UQqvNrTEs/s400/Mustard49.jpg

[ScribbleMuse]

I thought about CO2 poisoning or other type of situation like that, until I read further and saw "bloody."

So sad. I hope they find answers and the killer soon.

[vipjohnson]

SAN CLEMENTE, Calif. — A Houston-area attorney involved in a bitter custody dispute was found fatally shot along with her two young daughters and mother in an apparent murder-suicide after she was ordered to bring the children to a court hearing, authorities said Tuesday.

Investigators found 38-year-old Elizabeth Fontaine's body next to those of her mother, 67-year-old Bonnie Hoult, and two children Monday at an upscale Orange County home. Forensic tests will be needed to determine who pulled the trigger because a handgun was found between the two women, sheriff's spokesman Jim Amormino said.
[...]
Elizabeth Fontaine moved to the Houston suburb of Bellaire a month ago with her daughters, 4-year-old Catherine and 2-year-old Julia, but they returned to California after their father requested a custody hearing, according to court documents and authorities. Neighbors said the family and the mother were staying at a friend's home when the killings occurred.

Fontaine appeared in court Monday morning and was ordered to return with the children later that afternoon, documents show. Authorities responded to the red-roofed, yellow stucco house when they did not show and found a bloody scene: Four bodies, each with one gunshot wound, in a first-floor.
[...]
The deaths jolted the community, which has 42 luxury houses overlooking a golf course. The homes, with four to six bedrooms, sell for more than $1 million each, and Amormino said the area has a "very low" crime rate.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hN2O14so_hvrqIWacQ2kTHtLx2uwD9CK2PNG0

[Pene784]

The deaths jolted the community, which has 42 luxury houses overlooking a golf course. The homes, with four to six bedrooms, sell for more than $1 million each, and Amormino said the area has a "very low" crime rate.

It always bugs me when media points out over and over that a crime happened in a luxury community. Get over it. It is true, even rich people commit crimes. No one is exempt, no matter how much income they have. Domestic violenece happens in every income bracket.

[Aslan]

Forensic tests will be needed to determine who pulled the trigger because a handgun was found between the two women

Send me the money, I'll tell you who pulled the trigger.
Then again as a freebie I'll just say 'who had the most to lose in this situation'?
Not only her kids but her reputation as an attorney.
But yeah, maybe grandma offed everyone as an early Christmas gift.

Suicide is selfish but she should have just murdered herself. I'll never understand this kind of thing

[MadeaBecBec]

An Orange County Superior Court commissioner ruled two young girls should live with their maternal aunt rather than either parent on the day their mother, grandmother and both girls were shot to death Monday in a Talega home, according to court records.

The grandmother had apparently watched the children in the home while Elizabeth Fontaine went to the custody hearing. Commissioner Thomas Schulte issued a temporary ruling there that a maternal aunt should get physical and legal custody of the young girls, at least temporarily.

An attorney representing Elizabeth Fontaine’s ex-husband, Jason, did not return a telephone call on Tuesday. Elizabeth Fontaine was an intellectual property attorney with the national law firm of Howrey, which issued a formal statement.

“We were devastated to learn last evening that one of our associates, Elizabeth Hoult Fontaine, her mother and two daughters were found dead in a home in San Clemente, California,” the statement says.

“Elizabeth had been an associate in our Irvine office since 2005 and had recently, at her request, transferred to the firm’s Houston office. She was a talented lawyer who was advancing quickly in her career at Howrey. We will feel her loss deeply as a friend and as a colleague

http://www.sanclementetimes.com/index.php?mact=News,cntnt01,detail,0&cntnt01articleid=2067&cntnt01dateformat=%25B%20%25d%2C%20%25Y&cntnt01returnid=99

In court documents, Elizabeth Fontaine made explosive accusations against him, claiming he had molested the girls and had an addiction to pornography.

A court psychologist interviewed Catherine, documents show, but didn’t see enough to find that molestation had occurred. There was a four-day hearing in August on whether Elizabeth acted in good faith in making the accusation.

Ultimately, a court commissioner sided with Jason Fontaine on the issue, allowing him unmonitored visits, even as he awarded primary custody to Elizabeth. The divorce was granted in October.

No molestation charges were ever filed against Jason Fontaine.

Commissioner Thomas Schulte also allowed Elizabeth to move to Houston with her daughters, although he expressed concern that Elizabeth would try to re-open the case in a Texas court. She did exactly that.

A day after moving to Texas, Elizabeth Fontaine took her oldest daughter to be examined by a psychologist, who reported finding evidence of molestation, court documents show.

Within two weeks, a Texas court ordered that Jason Fontaine not have contact with his daughters. He accused his wife of court-shopping, and Schulte ordered her to bring her children back to California for Monday’s hearing.


At the 9 a.m. hearing in Orange County, Schulte ordered that temporary sole legal and sole physical custody of the girls be granted to a maternal aunt in Texas. He also ordered that the girls be put on the 3:30 flight to Houston out of John Wayne Airport on Monday.
http://m.ocregister.com/ocregister/db_13184/contentdetail.htm;jsessionid=82D5C9697CF4D2AE020BE C170523EA9D?contentguid=AWTHlPWJ&detailindex=0&pn=0&ps=3&full=true
If Elizabeth was that concerned with molestation, why wouldn't she allow the maternal Aunt to keep the girls? They were not given over to Jason and this was only a temporary arrangement.
Rest in Peace, Catherine, Julia and Bonnie.......

[Ninja0980]

There have been countless cases where a child WAS being abused and the mother couldn't get anyone to listen. End result, the abuse went on for the kids.
Sadly however, in many cases false accusations are made in order for mom to get sole custody. If it means courtshopping or brainwashing your kids, so be it. All that matters is your ex-husband doesn't get custody. I have to believe that to be the case here.
The kids weren't even going to anyone in her family but her chances of keeping sole custody were starting to slip away. And she was going to be damned if her hubby ever got the kids.

[AussieMum]

Why would the children not be able to stay with the mother?

I don't know what I'd do if I had to hand my children over to someone else. If the mother did this, she was obviously feeling completely boxed into a corner. If the molestation is true she may have thought this was better than the children being further abused.

Not saying it was right by any means.

Poor little kids, rest in peace sweet angels.

[lundwall1]

It always bugs me when media points out over and over that a crime happened in a luxury community. Get over it. It is true, even rich people commit crimes. No one is exempt, no matter how much income they have. Domestic violenece happens in every income bracket.


THANK YOU!!!!!!! I HATE that! As if the rich are a better class of people and would NEVER dare to commit heinous crimes?! PLEASE!!

What happened is absolutly horrible, if the mom killed her kids and her mother and then herself because of the court order and child custody battle etc. then she was NOT fit to be a parent to those poor babies to begin with - then the decision to remove them from her custody and put them with a relative was a correct decision. Just very sad that was unable to be fulfilled, the babies going to what perhaps the courts deemed a more stable envirnment for them. Either the mom did it or Grandma (to me seems more likely moms did it) and what a selfish and HORRRIBLE thing to do. I hope she burns in hell. RIP babies

[battery jackson]

oh, an IP lawyer? no wonder she was such a dumb heartless bitch

[MadeaBecBec]

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff307/MadeaBecBec/Mugshots/Victims/JuliaandCatherineFontaine2and4.jpg
Julia Fontaine, 2 and Catherine Fontaine, 4

Gone together, Flying in Heaven!!

[MadeaBecBec]

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff307/MadeaBecBec/People%20in%20News/ElizabethFontaine-BonnieHoult.jpg
Elizabeth Fontaine, Bonnie Hoult

The AP is reporting that instead of the temporary custody order given to a Maternal Aunt, the girls were to go to Jasons sister, Paternal Aunt!!
The gun used was registered to Hoult and gun residue was on both women, so it's going to be hard to figure out. But, most likely it was Elizabeth, that's my opinion, anyway.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hN2O14so_hvrqIWacQ2kTHtLx2uwD9CKMRG00

I cannot imagine what Jason Fontaine and his family are going through! Tremendous heartache, no doubt....

[crickett]

[QUOTE=Echo;336565]They were all FEMALES. And Detectives believe it was a domestic dispute. Mother, two daughers, and a female relative.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/12/4-females-found-dead-in-san-clemente-home.html


Authorities said this morning that four people -- all females -- were killed in what detectives believe was a domestic dispute in an exclusive gated community in San Clemente.

The females were all believed to be from the same family, and there were reports from the scene that at least one of the victims was a child. They were apparently found lying together in a hallway on the second floor of the home.


Please check this

There is another thread here with this story. I can't remember the families name....
It's two little girls, the mother and grandmother.
They were all shot.
The fathers sister had just been awarded temporary custody in a court in Santa Ana, CA.
The mother was to appear back in court that day and bring the girls.
The judge had indicated that he planned on giving temp custody to the father's sister.
The mother and girls did not show up.
It was initially thought that they were attempting to take off for Texas and the fathers family was going to head for the airport.
In the meantime the bodies were found.
The parents were getting a divorce and the mother had accused the father of molesting the girls.

[MadeaBecBec]

SANTA ANA, Calif. — A sheriff's deputy arrived at a Southern California home moments before a door was slammed shut and gunshots were fired in an apparent murder-suicide that left four dead, an official said Thursday.

Bonnie Hoult was standing outside the home Monday and holding the hand of her 4-year-old granddaughter, Catherine Fontaine, when the deputy arrived to check on a domestic disturbance, Orange County sheriff's spokesman Jim Amormino said.

When she saw the deputy, Hoult walked briskly toward the mustard-colored house in the upscale, gated community of San Clemente, yanking the girl along, and entered the open garage, he said.

The deputy followed and thrust her foot in a door to the house to try to keep it open — but Hoult slammed it shut and locked it.

Seconds later, shots were fired.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hN2O14so_hvrqIWacQ2kTHtLx2uwD9CLB87O0

Very strange! Wonder why the Deputy didn't just kick the door down???

[optilyric]

This is close to where I live and I was shocked to read this story. As I understand it, the police are saying that the grandmother is believed to have shot the youngest toddler first, then Elizabeth (who was holding the youngest toddler), then the four year old and then herself. :(

The father, who had been accused of molesting the children, had taken two polygraph tests to clear himself of the allegations, failed one and passed the other. Elizabeth had taken her older daughter to a doctor and the doctor found no signs of abuse, but another doctor (a psychiatrist, i believe??) said that the older daughter fell into the 90something percentile as a child who was likely abused.

This is so sad!

[ineedanap]

It's incredibly sad when a mother, trying to protect her children, is backed into a corner by authorities and feels the only way out is to kill the kids.

[Echo]

Terrible. Just terrible.

[myowndisaster23]

This is close to where I live and I was shocked to read this story. As I understand it, the police are saying that the grandmother is believed to have shot the youngest toddler first, then Elizabeth (who was holding the youngest toddler), then the four year old and then herself. :(


Is this from a news source? Didn't they find gun powder residue on the mother's hands as well? Anyone know if there is a possibility of transfer during a struggle? I wonder why the grandmother felt the need to do this? those poor babies. I am anxiously waiting to see if anything new comes of this.

[everhopeful]

If I had kids and I thought they were being molested and the law was going to side against me, I'd go after the molester before I'd kill my kids. There are ALWAYS other options. :dong:

[NoWhining1]

Sorry, I have no idea how to post these stories. All I know is that this happened not too far from me. There's a lot of links to the story. If anyone can help out by reposting this properly, please do! I think the story needs to be seen!

http://www.ocregister.com/news/home-224204-amormino-investigators.html

http://www.ocregister.com/news/fontaine-224435-girls-elizabeth.html

http://www.ocregister.com/news/-224561--.html

[Pene784]

Here is where I posted the story when it first happened.

http://www.dreamindemon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28728

I added your update to the original thread, thanks! I was wondering if the authorities would ever figure out what had happened.

[thebooblady]

WTF? A psychologist and an attorney..the grandmother chooses to kill her grandkids, daughter, and herself bc the courts awarded temp custody to the father's sister. The mother was a WILLING participant. Maybe the father really was molesting them, but still, WTF? I was going to quote the article but theres so much info I am having a hard time choosing what parts.

[Pene784]

UPDATE


SAN CLEMENTE Sheriff's investigators believe they know how four people, including two young sisters, died in a bloody heap Monday inside a million-dollar home in Talega.

Grandmother Bonnie Hoult, 67, fired the gun that killed her daughter and grandchildren before turning the .357 magnum on herself, a senior homicide investigator told the Register, citing the department's prevailing theory behind the killings that rocked a gated community.He said her daughter Elizabeth Fontaine, 38, appeared to have been a willing participant in the killings, with both she and her mother choosing death for themselves and the girls instead of allowing the sisters to be sent temporarily into the custody of a sister of their father.

Fontaine had been embroiled in a bitter custody battle with her ex-husband, Jason.

Earlier that morning, Commissioner Thomas H. Schulte ordered Fontaine to bring her daughters, Catherine, 4, and Julia, 2, back to court for an afternoon session after temporarily ruling that the girls would be handed over to Stephanie McLaren, 35 – Jason Fontaine's sister.



But Elizabeth Fontaine and Hoult apparently were convinced, as Elizabeth alleged in court documents, that her former husband was molesting the girls, even though Jason Fontaine never had been charged and an Orange County judge had found the accusations groundless. They apparently did not want the girls to be placed in the custody of any of his relatives.

The bloody solution they chose came swiftly about 1:30 p.m. Monday, prompted by a visit to the home by a sheriff's deputy making a welfare check.

Authorities say the domestic shootings were rare in that they involved only females – including two blond-haired, chubby-cheeked girls too young to grasp the adult crisis that ended up claiming their lives.

A sheriff's homicide investigator who requested anonymity because he was not authorized to speak publicly about the ongoing case provided the following account of what is believed to have happened:

About 1:30 Monday, Hoult was outside the home on Calle Sonador, holding Catherine. She was standing next to a black Lexus SUV registered to her daughter in front of the house when a female deputy pulled up.

Hoult, apparently thinking the deputy was coming to take away the children, bolted into the house through the open garage door. She slammed it and locked the doors to the house.

Based on what investigators have been able to piece together, they believe that seconds later, while the deputy was standing outside, Hoult – gun in hand – walked up to Elizabeth Fontaine, who was cradling Julia in her arms.

Hoult put the muzzle in the toddler Julia's mouth and fired once.

Fontaine then opened her mouth, and Hoult shot her.

The grandmother and former schoolteacher then grabbed Catherine and shot her in the mouth.

All four bodies were found intertwined, just beyond a front door decorated with a Christmas wreath.

The children's bags had been packed and were sitting at the bottom of the stairs.

Gunshot residue was on the hands of both of the adults, at first making it difficult to determine who the shooter was.

The scene was so shocking that paramedics were offered counseling.

Investigators said the gun was registered to Hoult, but they are not sure where she kept it.

The massacre was carried out at a friend's home, where they were staying while in town for the court hearing.

The four had moved to Houston a month ago and had flown into town for the hearing. Investigators say it is unlikely the weapon was transported on the plane.

Hoult bought the gun last December – right about the time her daughter filed for divorce from her husband.

McLaren, of Los Angeles County, did not return a phone call.

Jason Fontaine, 38, a general manager for Prestige Sales, a beverage distributor in Anaheim, could not be reached for comment.

His lawyer, John York of Orange, said: "He's distraught, he's angry, he's sorrowful – he's bouncing through all these emotions.

"He's a good, decent human being. This type of tragedy should not be visited upon anybody. Now that we're learning the circumstances, it just gets worse. It's something out of Greek tragedy."

York said that Elizabeth Fontaine, shortly before 1:30 p.m., told a court representative to call Schulte's courtroom to say she would be there at 3:30 with her children.

Schulte, concerned that she may be planning to flee back to Texas with her children, awarded custody to McLaren at that time. McLaren was in the courtroom.

Schulte told McLaren to go to John Wayne Airport with the court order, hoping to catch Fontaine and her children before they left on a flight that was leaving at 3:30, York said.

Before McLaren even left the courtroom in Orange, the four were dead.

CLOSE TIES

Hoult and Fontaine were two well-educated women who shared a close relationship over the years – even living together, with the girls, when Fontaine left her husband.

Hoult was intimately involved in the girls' lives, watching them three days a week at her condominium in Aliso Viejo while their mother worked part time as an attorney.

Howard Hoult, 51, Elizabeth Fontaine's half-brother, said Bonnie Hoult has behaved erratically over the years. One time, he said, she blasted a hole in the ceiling of a home with a shotgun, according to a story relayed to him by his father.

"I would describe her as not being well-balanced," Howard Hoult said.

Elizabeth Fontaine was about 5 when her parents divorced and mostly was raised by her mother in Sylmar, according to Howard Hoult.

Elizabeth's father, Charles P. Hoult – also Howard's father – now is 76. He is a retired scientist living in Los Angeles.

Charles Hoult found out about the killings on his birthday as he recovered from a recent surgery, according to his son.

"Imagine hearing that as a birthday present," Howard Hoult said.

Charles Hoult did not return phone calls.

Elizabeth's other sibling, half-sister Ellen Hoult, 48, who lives in Massachusetts, declined to discuss the tragedy or the family's background in detail.

According to Howard Hoult, Elizabeth grew up in a fractured household, rarely seeing her father, who worked long hours.

Bonnie Hoult taught for several years at Atherwood Elementary in Simi Valley before going into the psychology field full time, Howard Hoult and friends of Bonnie say, although there are no records of her as a licensed psychologist in California.

Bonnie Hoult was the second-grade teacher of the son of Patricia Roberts, 62, of Simi Valley.

"Bonnie was great at counseling others, even though she often seemed lonely and sad," said Roberts, whose contact with Hoult was in the mid-'70s and early '80s.

"I can only say she was a marvelous teacher and devoted mother to Liza," Roberts said. "She always had a menagerie of dogs with physical problems – missing limbs or blind.

"Bonnie gave great individual pep talks to children and adults, often while touching them lightly with her hand."

Elizabeth inherited some of her father's scientific genes, earning her undergraduate degree in electrical engineering from Cal Poly San Luis Obispo in 1994.

After college, she got a job as a field support engineer for Rockwell Automation. As an engineer there, she performed emergency service and repair, project management and development, training and start-up services for factory automation customers.

Then, she decided to switch careers and go into law.

Elizabeth – "Liza" to friends and family – earned her law degree in 1999 from Loyola Law School in Los Angeles and was admitted to the state Bar in June 2000.

Fontaine practiced intellectual property law for the prestigious national law firm Howrey LLP, working out of the Irvine office since 2005.

She did charitable work through her law firm, including a July 2008 Woman's Leadership Initiative for Girls Inc.

Fontaine was one of three panelists at a lunch to inspire girls to be leaders for their community. After lunch, the panelists led small groups of girls in leadership and team-building games.

Fontaine was a senior associate when she transferred at her request to the firm's Houston office in November – spending just a month there before she died.

"We were devastated to learn last evening that one of our associates, Elizabeth Hoult Fontaine, her mother and two daughters were found dead in a home in San Clemente, Ca.," Howrey said in a statement.

"She was a talented lawyer who was advancing quickly in her career at Howrey. We will feel her loss deeply as a friend and as a colleague."

Wednesday morning, neighbors held a vigil outside the house where the four died.

Scented candles flickered in the early morning outside the home where the shootings occurred. Written on one was a note saying "two more angels in heaven."

Aimee East, a neighbor who saw authorities wheel the bodies out of the home Monday, had brought two stuffed moose hugging each other with a note that said "Rest in Peace."

"The twin moose reminded me of the little girls," she said.

The same stuffed animal had been dropped off by another neighbor earlier that day. East also left a letter for the couple renting the home where the killings occurred; she wanted them to know that neighbors were not blaming them for the incident that had shaken their community.

In a psychological report on the two girls contained in the divorce files, a psychologist weighed in on the elder Fontaine daughter – opining where her best hope lies for a healthy and safe future.

"Catherine's progress in treatment will ... be facilitated by the promotion and support of strong relationships with her primary attachment figures," the report says, "namely, her mother and her maternal grandmother."

News researcher Michael Doss and reporters Brittany Levine and Salvador Hernandez contributed to this report.


http://www.ocregister.com/news/-224561--.html

[this is going badly]

It's incredibly sad when a mother, trying to protect her children, is backed into a corner by authorities and feels the only way out is to kill the kids.

The court decission was to protect the children from potential emotional abuse of their mother and possible (and apparently unfounded) sexual abuse at the hands of their father. The girls where just going to live their aunt during the investigation. In all honesty courts seldom make such sound rulings.

This selfish sow was pissed at her ex and was going to subject her daughter(s) to doctors and questions until the little girl figured out and finally said what her mother wanted to hear. It's bullshit.

This woman was a selfish selfcenter bitch, a behavior she apparently learned from her own mother. The bitch was not being backed into ANY corner. She was just given an option she did not like.

No matter which bitch actually pulled the trigger this mom allowed it to happen and she is as bad as any other crack whore baby killer posted here on DD except she probably had nicer shoes.

[Ninja0980]

She's no better than many of the "fathers" we've seen on here. She may have carried those babies in her tummy for nine months but it makes no difference. Her hatred of her ex was stronger than love for her kids.
As to the "sexual abuse" allegations, it's common in custody cases. Does it happen sometimes? Yes it does but in many cases it's simply a lie to get custody. A red flag for me where was she took the children to several different doctors. Sooner or later, you'll get the answers you want.

[MC30]

]Grandmother Bonnie Hoult, 67, fired the gun that killed her daughter and grandchildren before turning the .357 magnum on herself[/B], a senior homicide investigator told the Register, citing the department's prevailing theory behind the killings that rocked a gated community.He said her daughter Elizabeth Fontaine, 38, appeared to have been a willing participant in the killings, with both she and her mother choosing death for themselves and the girls instead of allowing the sisters to be sent temporarily into the custody of a sister of their father.

how does that conversation ever come up. 'ma, i don't want the girls to go to their aunts, how about you just kill all of us and yourself, you in? sure sweety, whatever you want.'
WTF?

[Pene784]

Hoult put the muzzle in the toddler Julia's mouth and fired once.

Fontaine then opened her mouth, and Hoult shot her.

The grandmother and former schoolteacher then grabbed Catherine and shot her in the mouth.



This part really gave me chills. It describes what happened (or at least what they think happened) so graphically, that I actually have a mental picture. And since mom and younger sister were shot first on front of the older sister I doubt she went quietly. SO sad.

[MC30]

crazy bitches.

[this is going badly]

This one bothers me too. Good jobs, disposable incomes, nice cars, nice houses, generally having nice things Maybe to close to home.

Selfish crazy bitchs, I want believe that where ever in hell those two landed they immeditely regreted shooting those little girls and will be re living what they have done over and over forever.

[Dakota Valkyrie]

It was the most important court hearing of her life, and she wasn't prepared.

Elizabeth "Liza" Fontaine had been ordered to bring her children back from Texas, ordered to give an Orange County judge good reason why he shouldn't take them away and give them to a father she believed had been molesting them.
[...]

"This hearing is by far the most important (one) in this case," Liza wrote in court documents, asking Commissioner Thomas H. Schulte for more time to find a lawyer and subpoena witnesses.

When she walked into Department L-71 the morning of Dec. 14 to represent herself, Liza, wearing a dark suit, she was a nervous wreck.

"She looked exhausted," her husband, Jason Fontaine, 38, said. "She looked manic - completely just drained. Incredibly emotional."

Within minutes, Liza was crying.

She tried to explain what she wanted: a hearing on what she alleged was new evidence of molestation, and to retain custody of her girls until the allegations could be looked into by court-appointed professionals.

But she struggled to get the words out: "I apologize for crying, your honor."

Liza was in danger of losing her children – perhaps only temporarily -- because she had asked a Texas court to issue an order against her husband, "to protect my children where California has failed to do so."

Jason's attorney, John York, had argued that Liza was flouting the California court's authority, starting a new legal process in Texas two days after moving there – in a sense, "court shopping" to get a favorable outcome.

Liza had asked the Texas court to ask Schulte to cede jurisdiction, but Schulte rejected the idea.

At the start of the hearing, Schulte announced that he'd already reached a tentative decision: to award temporary custody to Jason's parents, to have a local evaluator review the new evidence, and to finish the case quickly.

"Wait, your honor, please, please, before you make any changes," Liza said. "I need to move to stay, get a full evaluation. There should be no change in custody at all at this point. You have no evidence before anybody in this court that I have done anything to deserve this. No evidence."

She went straight to the point: the credibility of her accusations. She offered testimony from Ricky Greenwald, the therapist she'd paid $15,000 to fly out from Massachusetts and interview her children, and his co-worker in the case, Dr. Lenore Walker, a nationally known psychologist.

There also were two experts with no financial connection to her: a psychologist at the Children's Assessment Center in Houston as well as a Houston social worker who were available to testify by phone.

Schulte refused to hear from anyone who wasn't in court, which left Greenwald as the lone witness.
[...]

This wasn't the first time Schulte had considered Liza's accusations. There had been a two-day hearing in March, when Liza screened a video she had made weeks earlier of her daughter Catherine. In it, a naked 3-year-old girl appears, telling her mother that cream tickles and balloons tickle, according to court records.

"What else tickles?" her mother asks.

"Daddy tickles me."

"Where else does daddy tickle you?"

"On my bottom."

Liza Fontaine then asks her daughter to show her where, and Catherine puts her finger on her vagina.

"Show me how."

Catherine rubs the area.

After the hearing, Schulte issued his ruling.

"The question the court must answer is: Has the allegation that the respondent has sexually abused the minor child been proven by a preponderance of the evidence? The court feels that it has not."

That video hadn't been enough for Liza to prove her accusations, but now, she had a more explicit case: an older, more articulate daughter, and a report concluding that there was a "high degree of certainty" that Catherine had been molested – Greenwald's report.

His report quoted Catherine describing her father as touching her inappropriately. It includes observations of various sexualized behavior.

The report also includes Greenwald's reasons for believing that the girl had not been coached: "Catherine was able to provide details of sexual activities that non-abused children her age do not have the knowledge to describe.... (H)er behavior...would have been virtually impossible to teach/coach in such a young child....at times she blurted out what her father had done, and at other times she tried her best to avoid talking about it."
[...]

Schulte allowed Greenwald to take the stand. After Greenwald listed his qualifications, Schulte pointed out that he had not taken a course that state law requires of court-appointed evaluators, and that he had not interviewed the father or the other psychologists involved in the case, as is required of court-appointed evaluators.
[...]

"Doctor, I'm not going to allow you to testify as to your opinion on whether or not the children have been sexually abused," he said. "I don't think I can."
[...]

Psychologists who deal with child abuse generally agree that small children are very open to suggestion.

Schulte said he was concerned that Liza might needlessly take her daughter to "four or five more expert witnesses," filling her head with thoughts of abuse.

"I need to keep the children safe from further exposure to a person who might believe that the molest occurred, if it didn't, or contact with the parent who abused the child if they did."

Greenwald asked Schulte: "How can you evaluate that risk without evaluating whether the abuse might have occurred or not?"

Schulte didn't answer that question, saying that he'd look at what he could: the evidence in the record. That record, he said, is "a history of allegations being made in the past that have not been substantiated by a litany of mental health professionals."

Substantiating claims of abuse of young children is very difficult. According to the Clearinghouse on Child Abuse and Neglect, for child sexual abuse reports, the "younger the child, the lower the level of substantiated abuse."
[...]

As children mature and learn how to talk, the substantiation rate increases. Catherine's two encounters with Orange County Child Protective Services came when she was 26 and 39 months old. In Houston, she had just turned 4.

Jason Fontaine was seen by three psychologists who interviewed him and observed his relationship with his children. They saw nothing to worry about. One of them gave Jason a sexual deviancy assessment known as the Abel test.

In the test, the subject ranks pictures of people in bathing suits and such on a scale ranging from extremes of revulsion and enjoyment.

The trick to the test, readily found on sites such as innocentdads.org, is that it actually measures how long the subject looks at each picture. If the subject lingers on a picture and then ranks it as disgusting, he may be a deviant.

Jason passed the test.
[...]

When the parties came back, Schulte returned to his initial plan: a court-appointed evaluator was to assess the new Texas report along with the earlier reports and meet with the children.

A local social worker was to watch a recording of the interview with Catherine. They'd report on their findings at a hearing within a week to 10 days, and the whole matter would be wrapped up by Christmas, Schulte said.

Since Jason's parents were out of town, Schulte's plan was for the children to stay with Jason's sister until the hearing, and have no contact with either parent.

He ordered that the children be brought to court after lunch for his final ruling.

"What is the purpose of having the children in..." Liza started to ask.

"The purpose is when I make a determination of where they are going to go, that they are available," Schulte said.

"The children are not going back to Texas before the next hearing," he added. "I can guarantee that."
http://www.ocregister.com/news/-229297--.html

[this is going badly]

The accusations did not start until the divorce which this woman was in a rage about the divorce.

The problem with what the girl said was that the mother was bat shit crazy and likely coached her. She would have taken here to therapist after theripist until the child said what her mother wanted to hear.

This goes against my general reaction in cases like this, but on what planet are children killed to protect them?

[crickett]

The judge was an arrogant ass. He refused to even listen to an acknoledged expert who was available in court. He was pissed that the woman had taken off to Texas, thereby flouting his authority, so he was prepared to take it out on the children.
The woman had made her accusations only during a divorce...BUT...WHY were they getting the divorce? Maybe she wanted the divorce as she felt he was molesting their daughters.
This was a senseless tragedy. And the grandmother was wrong in killing these precious little angels. So was the mother.
It doesn't negate the fact that the judge was wrong as well. He may have been able to prevent this tragedy if his head hadn't been so far up his ass, if he had just listened.