Who wants to take daughters to work when you can take your guns instead?

[Athena]

Florida lawmakers pass "take your guns to work" law
By Michael Peltier
2 hours, 30 minutes ago

TALLAHASSEE, Florida (Reuters) - Most Florida residents would be allowed to take guns to work under a measure passed by Florida lawmakers on Wednesday.

The bill, allowing workers to keep guns in their cars for self-protection, was approved by the Florida Senate by a vote of 26-13. It now goes to Republican Gov. Charlie Crist to sign into law.

Backed by the National Rifle Association and some labor unions, the so-called "take-your-guns-to-work" measure would prohibit business owners from banning guns kept locked in motor vehicles on their private property.

The measure applies to employees, customers and those invited to the business establishment as long as they have a permit to carry the weapon.

Full article (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080409/us_nm/usa_florida_guns_dc;_ylt=At6iuaZ4f6lotVbVFJ_T4gwDW 7oF)

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I don't like this one bit, even as a gun owner. If you really can't deal with your place of business not allowing guns on their property, work somewhere else. The fact that the state is stepping in to, once again, tell private enterprise what they can and can't allow disturbs me.

[CPL CHUD]

This'll make it easier for pissed off employees to bargain for higher wages. More push button kill weapons equals a safer America. Makes perfect sense to me.:rolleyes:

[swivel]

Don't these idiots know the statistics behind guns and self-protection? You are more likely to hurt yourself or someone you love than you are to use your gun to protect yourself. We need to stop looking at guns as symbols of DEFENSE, because they aren't. They are tools for OFFENSE. Always have been, always will be.

We also need to dispel the myth that we are in danger from strangers. You are far more likely to be killed or hurt by someone you know. And these are the people that have access to your weapons and to you. The paranoia we feel towards strangers makes no sense. And neither does the unwavering trust we heap on one another.

[Lizard]

The paranoia we feel towards strangers makes no sense. And neither does the unwavering trust we heap on one another.

Request for clarification...are you saying we need to come to more of a middle ground when it comes to trust/mistrust for both strangers and those we "know"?

[swivel]

Request for clarification...are you saying we need to come to more of a middle ground when it comes to trust/mistrust for both strangers and those we "know"?

Well, since you are more likely to be killed by an acquaintance than you are by a stranger, yes.

I'm not saying we should "trust" strangers more, only that we should "fear" them less. They don't see you. They are walking right by, thinking about their family, and how they can't wait to get the fuck home so they can drown those fucking brats and string that bitch wife up in the garage before tasting some gun oil.

That's what I'm getting at. Check out our front page sometime.

[Lizard]

Check out our front page sometime.

I've checked out the front page a couple of times. Guess I should've been clearer in my request for clarification. I understood you perfectly when you referred to the danger from strangers, but it was the "And neither does the unwavering trust we heap on one another" that threw me off a little. I just wanted to make sure I understood your intent--I wasn't sure if the "one another" referred to "all humankind" or to those we know, love, etc.

[swivel]

I've checked out the front page a couple of times. Guess I should've been clearer in my request for clarification. I understood you perfectly when you referred to the danger from strangers, but it was the "And neither does the unwavering trust we heap on one another" that threw me off a little. I just wanted to make sure I understood your intent--I wasn't sure if the "one another" referred to "all humankind" or to those we know, love, etc.

Those we know. We trust every acquaintance as soon as we know their name and where they live. People are shocked when their neighbor does bad shit, because they were so nice at that one barbecue, and they wave every morning as they fetch the paper. The most common form of rape is date-rape, because women trust the men they date too goddamn much.

The people that know you have uncommon access to you and they have reasons for wanting to hurt you. I'm not suggesting we live in a state of constant fear and mistrust, but people should be a tad more vigilant in their relationships and stop worrying about a boogeyman that doesn't exist.

[Raq me darkly]

This begs the question, does this new law apply to postal employees as well?

Shocked when neighbors do "bad shit?" Not really. I was robbed by my neighbor's kid three times and only the third time was I able to prove it and press charges. However, it was with the assistance of two of my other neighbors that I was able to do this. One knew where he had dumped some of my stuff and the other was friends with a detective and pressured him to follow-up on it.

[Athena]

Don't these idiots know the statistics behind guns and self-protection? You are more likely to hurt yourself or someone you love than you are to use your gun to protect yourself. We need to stop looking at guns as symbols of DEFENSE, because they aren't. They are tools for OFFENSE. Always have been, always will be.

We also need to dispel the myth that we are in danger from strangers. You are far more likely to be killed or hurt by someone you know. And these are the people that have access to your weapons and to you. The paranoia we feel towards strangers makes no sense. And neither does the unwavering trust we heap on one another.


Not that I feel like going rounds about this again, but not everything should be looked at from a "big picture" perspective.

I've never hurt myself or someone else with my gun. I've never been attacked by someone I know (except for when I was a kid and couldn't own a gun anyway). All my experience with attacks or threats come from complete and total strangers (and I can name several).

Statistics don't apply at the individual level and this is a question of individual rights. My gun ownership is safe and warranted. I'm okay with increased legislation; I'm sure I qualify by damn near any restriction they could reasonably apply. But, you're going to have a hard time to convince me that I should give up the most definitive means of self-defense I've run across for the good of irresponsible people who wouldn't likely do the same for me under the same circumstances.

Still, the state should not be undercutting the policies of private corporations, here.

[swivel]

Statistics don't apply at the individual level and this is a question of individual rights. My gun ownership is safe and warranted. I'm okay with increased legislation; I'm sure I qualify by damn near any restriction they could reasonably apply. But, you're going to have a hard time to convince me that I should give up the most definitive means of self-defense I've run across for the good of irresponsible people who wouldn't likely do the same for me under the same circumstances.

Statistics DO apply at the individual level. When you flip a coin once, the chances that it will come up heads or tails is 50/50. That doesn't mean that result, in that one instant, will be both, neither, or half. The way we come up with the odds for individual trials is to aggregate many trials until they converge on an average. That average is the chance for EACH single trial.

And individual trials multiply out. So, even though a coin has come up "heads" 10 times in a row, this does not mean that the next flip has a greater chance of coming up H or T, but the chance of flipping 11 H's in a row is 1/2 ^ 11. The chances of you drawing your firearm to protect yourself, vs. the chance that your gun will hurt you are someone you love in an accident/suicide/stolen in a fight is something you can dodge several times if you are an unlikely individual trial among many, but the chances of avoiding these odds 4 times in a row, 5 times, or more is more and more difficult.

The aggregates matter for the individual.


Still, the state should not be undercutting the policies of private corporations, here.

Why not? You can't just appeal to the rights of a private corporation over the right of a state. There is nothing inherent in the corporation OR the state which gives one precedence over the other. The defining quality is in the RIGHT in question, which means we can leave the corporation and the state out of the discussion altogether.

You still have too much of the Libertarian in you that wants to battle the State at the behest of the private enterprise. Just because States tend to be less efficient and more corrupt doesn't mean we need to rely on an appeal to our tenderness for the corporation to prove our point. It should stand or fall on its own merit.

[Morbid]

Originally posted by Athena (sorry guys, but the issue seems to be fixed)


This begs the question, does this new law apply to postal employees as well?

Shocked when neighbors do "bad shit?" Not really. I was robbed by my neighbor's kid three times and only the third time was I able to prove it and press charges. However, it was with the assistance of two of my other neighbors that I was able to do this. One knew where he had dumped some of my stuff and the other was friends with a detective and pressured him to follow-up on it.

Must be nice! When I lived in the hood, I got robbed by some neighbors. Another neighbor witnessed it and chased them away, but in the hood, even the good guys have warrants, so NOBODY was talking to the cops. It was pretty weak, but they were teenagers and didn't steal anything of too much value. Actually, the list of missing items was pretty funny (and tell-tale):

Change jar
PS2
Bong
Malibu (pineapple)
Smoked sausages
Taquitos

Yep, they passed up valuable jewelry to steal the change jar; left a dozen brand new PS2 games to steal just the console; passed up the unopened bottle of Skyy that was right next to the Malibu...and they even stole some taquitos out of our freezer. The fucked up part? They BBQed those smoked sausages the very next night.

I was so insulted, they were lucky that a toddler lived in that house. It was the only thing that kept me from sending some thugs over to kick their door in and retrieve my things by force.