They believe they have a Right!

[Lazlo]

A very interesting way to stem the tide:


(CNN) -- For years, children from Ciudad Acuna, Mexico, have attended schools across the border in Del Rio, Texas, but this week that changed for students who cannot prove residency.

The local school superintendent imposed new regulations to stem what he said is a long-standing problem for the district.

"I have seen van loads of kids with plates from Coahuila State (in Mexico) pulling in front of the school," San Felipe Del Rio School Superintendent Kelt Cooper told CNN. "Everyone knows what is going on. It's real blatant."

Last week, Cooper received confirmation from authorities at the International Bridge border crossing that some 540 school-age kids were crossing the bridge in the mornings.

To prove residency, the district requires parents or guardians to provide an official document such as a utility bill, lease or proof-of-rent payment, none of which Gomez said she can provide since everything is in her sister-in-law's name. (suuuure!) She said her only alternative may be homeschooling her children.

Cooper said he knows some of the parents who received letters are upset, especially those with children who are U.S. citizens. But he said the issue is a matter or residency, not citizenship or immigration status.

"Citizenship is a moot point. It really comes down to whether you live here," Cooper said.

A very slick way to keep them out - this should be enforced along the entire border.


"Frequently, they (Mexicans) come with the impression that their kids are U.S. citizens, so they can go to school here," he added.

They came in as illegals and because of the fucked up immigration laws, their spawn are citizens. They think they have a "right" to bleed us.


"We are saying if we have room, you can pay tuition. We don't want this to be a burden on taxpayers. Some of the parents we have talked to have expressed interest in paying tuition," he said.

But losing non-resident students could wind up costing the district.

Cooper estimated that in a worst-case scenario, the district could lose some $2.7 million in state funding since budgets are based on attendance. There are currently about 10,000 students in the district.

It cracks me up that one moment he is championing the taxpayers, and the next he is bemoaning the loss of the money he has been getting illegitimately from those very same taxpayers.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/09/11/texas.border.schools/index.html

[petrina]

calling children "spawn" seems particularly harsh to me.

and tho there is a good chance that the lady is lying about her residency, probably 15% of my caseload has to have utilities, etc.. in someone else's name bc they fucked up on payment at one time or another. so yes, i agree to take her words with a grain of salt, but it is not beyond the realm of possibility that she is telling the truth.

idk. this thread makes me sad.

[Lazlo]

calling children "spawn" seems particularly harsh to me.

and tho there is a good chance that the lady is lying about her residency, probably 15% of my caseload has to have utilities, etc.. in someone else's name bc they fucked up on payment at one time or another. so yes, i agree to take her words with a grain of salt, but it is not beyond the realm of possibility that she is telling the truth.

idk. this thread makes me sad.

Yeah, it was harsh, and I probably should feel bad....

This is another excerpt from the story:

Three of the students were Carla Gomez' children. In a phone interview, Gomez told CNN she lives in Del Rio with her sister-in-law, but she travels back and forth to Ciudad Acuna to see her husband, who was deported.

So she is living here, and her husband is there because he was deported. Hmmm
Sounds like she is milking the system to me. And any bets he won't be "re-united" with his family soon - just need to save up for that coyote!

[Athena]

If their children are "milking the system" for an education, I'm not opposed to it. Let's be real... They're going to wind up here eventually either way. I'd just assume they speak English and be reasonably educated.

But I'm all for amnesty and open borders anyway.

[Mare]

How are these children coming over the Mexico border every day? Do they have visas or are they blatantly crossing the border illegally (and allowed to do so)? Do they get free school lunches?

Many children in NYC attend schools in school districts not their own because the neighboring districts have better schools but the parents can't afford to buy a house or pay the rent (in the better district). (Good school district, two bedroom apt about $2,000/month to rent, utilities not included). What these parents do if they cannot obtain a utility bill is ask a friend or an acquaintance (who lives in the better school district) to provide them a sub-lease. That is sufficient to have the child attend schools.

Do I agree with this? No. Do I see it? Daily.

This practice generally does not bother me and did not bother me until my daughter’s school stated that because of too many students they had to cut off pre K and preschool. The PTA went on a rampage and provided the school with a list of parents they knew lived out of district. I do not know how many children may have been kicked out as a result

Children have playdates and class lists. Some of the parents that live out of district provided they real addresses on the class lists and would host playdates in their homes that were not within the school district. I assume this is how the PTA knew which parents were “impostors”.

I am not sure how coherent this came out.

[polis]

You mean ...our...not are.

Anyhow.

You obviously haven't been to a border town. People live here and commute from one country to the other all the time. I have friends who are American citizens who work, and go to school in Mexico. Students who go to graduate school in Mexico, get a free ride (all of it paid by the government). I wish our nation would do that for higher learning rather than pre-k. American citizens that work in Mexico, basically take the jobs that everyone wants...not dishwasher or fry cook.

There are some Americans who live in Mexico because it is cheaper to live there. I agree that most of them should not try to sneak themselves into a school by falsifying information. This article doesn't state how much of those children that cross over are going to schools that are PRIVATE. Not all of those spawn are trying to bleed our system.

Yes there are some that only live in Mexico because a loved one is not legal. Border communities do not see themselves as divided. I feel that the more are educated ...the better chances they don't have to live off the system as adults.

[Mare]

You obviously haven't been to a border town. People live here and commute from one country to the other all the time. I have friends who are American citizens who work, and go to school in Mexico. Students who go to graduate school in Mexico, get a free ride (all of it paid by the government). I wish our nation would do that for higher learning rather than pre-k. American citizens that work in Mexico, basically take the jobs that everyone wants...not dishwasher or fry cook.

There are some Americans who live in Mexico because it is cheaper to live there. I agree that most of them should not try to sneak themselves into a school by falsifying information. This article doesn't state how much of those children that cross over are going to schools that are PRIVATE. Not all of those spawn are trying to bleed our system.

Yes there are some that only live in Mexico because a loved one is not legal. Border communities do not see themselves as divided. I feel that the more are educated ...the better chances they don't have to live off the system as adults.

Nope, never been to a border town and I didn't realize the borders were so open. Wish the rest of the border would just follow that example and let the people be.

[Lazlo]

I feel that the more are educated ...the better chances they don't have to live off the system as adults.~Polis

I see them learning how to circumvent the system, and learning that the rule of law doesn't apply to them. I see future drains on society, not productive members. I also see the same subversive message being sent to every student that attends these facilities - Laws mean nothing, do whatever you want to get what you want.

[polis]

I see them learning how to circumvent the system, and learning that the rule of law doesn't apply to them. I see future drains on society, not productive members. I also see the same subversive message being sent to every student that attends these facilities - Laws mean nothing, do whatever you want to get what you want.


You can say that about every day Americans who don't pay their taxes, have an extra kid for welfare, and our corporations that greedily suck out the life out of most countries through our "efforts of globalization".

There are laws. People don't always obey them. However I believe that humanity, compassion, and dignity outweigh government placed laws. Children who didn't have a say on where they were born...here illegally, or legally. They are children. When you look at them, do you first see their nationality (is that what bugs you) or is it ethinicity?

Edit: I forgot to mention, I grew up with a city filled with spawn like these. They are doing far more for our nation as environmental engineers, software engineers, teachers, and military than some of those that had legal parents. Where you are born, whether legally or illegally does not give you a predetermined path of being a crook, a thief, or a cheat. Keeping the notion that this is the only path that immigrants have (illegal) sets the path for those with the mindset to pass on bigotry to their children.

[petrina]

I also see the same subversive message being sent to every student that attends these facilities - Laws mean nothing, do whatever you want to get what you want.

hey, its the american way. why should they be left out? why should laws only apply to the poor?

yes, i am being cynical and facetious. well, facetious in my okness with circumventing laws.

but i am glad that we are able to have an exchange of ideas here without too much animosity.

and no, lazlo, i dont expect you to feel bad. that wasnt my intent. i was just responding to your thoughts and feelings with mine. its all good in my book. i do appreciate the opportunity to have these types of discussions with people that i know - if only marginally. it makes me all patriotic and shit. for reals.

[petrina]

omg

polis and i agree on something.

gosh. its beautiful, really.

[Lazlo]

You can say that about every day Americans who don't pay their taxes, have an extra kid for welfare, and our corporations that greedily suck out the life out of most countries through our "efforts of globalization".

There are laws. People don't always obey them. However I believe that humanity, compassion, and dignity outweigh government placed laws. Children who didn't have a say on where they were born...here illegally, or legally. They are children. When you look at them, do you first see their nationality (is that what bugs you) or is it ethinicity?

I thought you had a problem with race being brought into the issues? Why so quick to pull the card?

Sure they are children. Pointing out that these are children does nothing to change the facts of the matter, only adds an emotional edge to a bankrupt argument. I say my children should go to the richest district in the state - they have all the best shit, and the very best teachers! Lets just let everyone go where they want. I think it was Bush that proposed a voucher system that would do just that for children in failing schools, and was shouted down by his political adversaries.

The whole issue is one of law and order. If you don't like the law, and it is bad enough that you can get the support necessary to change it, then by all means do so. But don't take the law into your own hands when you don't agree, or it is not to your advantage, and, by god, please don't teach the children it's OK to do so.

[polis]

I thought you had a problem with race being brought into the issues? Why so quick to pull the card?

I am not pulling out the race card. It's ethnicity. Btw, fun fact for you... on the birth certificates of Mexican-Americans, Cuban-Americans..etc.. listed as white. I was asking if you were mad due to patriotic national pride or if it was based on cultural, ethnicity differences. You cannot sit there and tell me that the majority who HATE immigrants... hate simply because a law was broken. I can find data later when I have time to prove you otherwise.




Sure they are children. Pointing out that these are children does nothing to change the facts of the matter, only adds an emotional edge to a bankrupt argument. I say my children should go to the richest district in the state - they have all the best shit, and the very best teachers! Lets just let everyone go where they want. I think it was Bush that proposed a voucher system that would do just that for children in failing schools, and was shouted down by his political adversaries.

I guess you don't have no voucher system where you live. Btw, the voucher system is imperfect and a whole other issue. It's not the school that creates the child but the parent.



The whole issue is one of law and order. If you don't like the law, and it is bad enough that you can get the support necessary to change it, then by all means do so. But don't take the law into your own hands when you don't agree, or it is not to your advantage, and, by god, please don't teach the children it's OK to do so.

Umm.. you make it seem that I am constructing a militia. Seriously, sit down, relax, and have some ice tea. There are universities here and schools here in our fine republican state that are currently teaching that there should be no borders. My city has the border the fed. govt. imposed (splitting a city in half), however that doesn't kill the cultural or economic bond between either half.

I have free will. The people make the laws. Once the health care bullshit is dealt with, so will immigration. Btw, Bush and his croonies were considering legalizing the whole illegal lot. If that still happens under this new administration. You won't have much to bitch about anymore.

p.s. if you look at current data. There has been a significant decline on illegal immigration coming from the South due to the drug war in Mexico and our country's economic downturn.

[Tassa]

The whole issue is one of law and order.

I rather think the issue, or the base assumption is that illegals are a drain on the system. After researching and debating the issue for almost 2 years, I'm not convinced of that.

Every school we've ever sent our kids to has required proof of residency. This isn't a "new idea" to combat illegal immigration, nor is it a "racist policy" (at least on it's merit).

[biteme]

I’m sick & tired of the system being milked by Mexico
If they don’t pay taxes, they don’t deserve the benefits, I’m so sick and tired of the illegals and all the BS with instructions being written in English and in Spanish. If you want to live here learn the language.
I’ve had it with huge dummied down classes because illegals don’t know the language and can’t keep up
Or special classes for illegals because of communication issues. Those teachers should be teaching legal students in smaller classes giving more attention to the tax payer’s children. Illegals became criminals when they entered the country illegally, lied to get into the schools, get free medical in emergency rooms where they can’t be turned away, they are criminals and should be dealt as such. Legal tax paying citizens die every day because emergency rooms are filled with illegals, with no medical they all know they can’t be turned away, a medical doctor in private practice doesn’t have to accept a no insurance non paying illegal so they all go to hospital emergency rooms for any minor shit because emergency rooms have to accept them. Illegals illegally tax all our systems and should be dealt with like the criminals they are. Sure everyone deserves a better life an education and whatever, let them get it from their government and not by stealing from my children and my taxes, cause when they steal my taxes they’re teaching their children that lying and stealing is a way of life and it’s the way to get what you want that others have.

[Lazlo]

My point is that these families were openly, blatantly, circumventing the law. And it was being tacitly approved by those charged with the responsibility to uphold it. That the Supt. of this school is actually following the rules and merits national attention is just an indication of how widespread the problem is.

There are no schools in Ciudad Acuna? Or do these people just want something better, so they try to take something that isn't theirs? The burden should be on the Mexican government to do more for their people. It is not our responsibility.

[Tassa]

My point is that these families were openly, blatantly, circumventing the law. And it was being tacitly approved by those charged with the responsibility to uphold it. That the Supt. of this school is actually following the rules and merits national attention is just an indication of how widespread the problem is.

There are no schools in Ciudad Acuna? Or do these people just want something better, so they try to take something that isn't theirs? The burden should be on the Mexican government to do more for their people. It is not our responsibility.

Alright, but this happens every day in "good school districts" all over the country. People from bad school districts are "stealing" from the quality schools. I think the point Polis was trying to make is that we are more apt to justify this. "Oh those people just want the best education they can give their kids," or "It's not the kids' fault they were born in a bad school dist." The same arguments could easily be made for these kids.

Also, you can't defend the letter of the law vehemently by saying "They are criminals because crossed the border illegally" while calling citizenship laws "fucked up." If their kids are citizen because they jumped the border an hour before giving birth, so be it, that's the law. I doubt people would be so quick, to deny access to these schools, to kids from neighboring districts -- at least not with the same venom. If these kids are citizens they should be treated thusly, after all, it is the law. And truly, even if they're not citizens, they are just trying to get an education. Why wouldn't parents want what's best for their kids?

[Mare]

I rather think the issue, or the base assumption is that illegals are a drain on the system. After researching and debating the issue for almost 2 years, I'm not convinced of that.

Every school we've ever sent our kids to has required proof of residency. This isn't a "new idea" to combat illegal immigration, nor is it a "racist policy" (at least on it's merit).

Every school district requires proof or residency so the children can be enrolled. They require proof that the child lives within the school district and not proof of legal immigration status.

Colleges are the only schools that will ask for proof of legal status in the US once admittance is granted (and I believe some private high schools).

[petrina]

ok i am beginning to feel that "off topic" remarks are being questioned if they are to the left of center, but not if they are to the right of center.

i do not think this is fair, nor does it help with healthy debates.

just sayin.

[Mare]

I’m sick & tired of the system being milked by Mexico
If they don’t pay taxes, they don’t deserve the benefits, I’m so sick and tired of the illegals and all the BS with instructions being written in English and in Spanish. If you want to live here learn the language.
I’ve had it with huge dummied down classes because illegals don’t know the language and can’t keep up
Or special classes for illegals because of communication issues. Those teachers should be teaching legal students in smaller classes giving more attention to the tax payer’s children. Illegals became criminals when they entered the country illegally, lied to get into the schools, get free medical in emergency rooms where they can’t be turned away, they are criminals and should be dealt as such. Legal tax paying citizens die every day because emergency rooms are filled with illegals, with no medical they all know they can’t be turned away, a medical doctor in private practice doesn’t have to accept a no insurance non paying illegal so they all go to hospital emergency rooms for any minor shit because emergency rooms have to accept them. Illegals illegally tax all our systems and should be dealt with like the criminals they are. Sure everyone deserves a better life an education and whatever, let them get it from their government and not by stealing from my children and my taxes, cause when they steal my taxes they’re teaching their children that lying and stealing is a way of life and it’s the way to get what you want that others have.

Umm, are you serious?

It is my understanding that English is NOT the official laguage of the US.

Also, illegals do not clog emergency rooms with petty bullshit, they tend to go to hospitals and emergency rooms when treatment is absolutely necessary (blanket statement).

Wait, what was that about bilingual education? What about children who immigrate to the US legally but do not speak English? What about the children born to US citizen parents whose first language is NOT English?

Should we also not teach our children other languages in school?

[Morbid]

I'm with Athena and polis on this one. Also, if this was a bunch of Swedes crossing the border, I doubt you would hear a thing. :P

Oh, and this:


Cooper estimated that in a worst-case scenario, the district could lose some $2.7 million in state funding since budgets are based on attendance. There are currently about 10,000 students in the district.

is why nothing will change. Don't hate the players, people...

[Tassa]

Should we also not teach our children other languages in school?

LOL -- yeah, some people pay a lot of money to send their kids to language immersion schools.

[Lazlo]

If these kids are citizens they should be treated thusly, after all, it is the law. And truly, even if they're not citizens, they are just trying to get an education. Why wouldn't parents want what's best for their kids?

That's right, it's the law. All they have to do is live in the district - and prove it - and they can go to school there.

We all want whats best for our kids. Of course we do. I'm just not so sure that sneaking across an international border teaches the right lesson. There is more to education than Math and Reading. In raising a child you also have the responsibility to instill right from wrong.

And I asked the question earlier - are there no schools south of the border? Are they being deprived of an education there? Do they just sit around in puddles and feel despair like some Sally Struthers child? Or is that these parents don't mind breaking the law to get more? And if that is the case then there is a whole history of ethical and moral thought that condemns it.

[thequeenofsorrow]

It's sad that there's so many people that would like to be taxpayers, (contribute to the school district as a taxpayer) have social security numbers, and be here legally and not live in fear. They are here working and sending their kids to school here trying to look out for the best interests of their family but can't become legal because of the laws.
Not everyone is lucky enough to be born here where there's more opportunity. It's hard because you want to hate people for breaking the law sending their kids to schools they shouldn't be going to and working here illegally but if they are doing it for their family you can't blame them that much. Yeah I know they have schools in other countries but the parent just wants the best. And I know breaking laws is a horrible example for your kids...... I'd rather tax money be spent to educate children then to house prisoners...
As a parent, you feel for them. You wonder if you'd do it yourself if it was you only because you want the best possible life for your kids.

[Mare]

That's right, it's the law. All they have to do is live in the district - and prove it - and they can go to school there.

We all want whats best for our kids. Of course we do. I'm just not so sure that sneaking across an international border teaches the right lesson. There is more to education than Math and Reading. In raising a child you also have the responsibility to instill right from wrong.

And I asked the question earlier - are there no schools south of the border? Are they being deprived of an education there? Do they just sit around in puddles and feel despair like some Sally Struthers child? Or is that these parents don't mind breaking the law to get more? And if that is the case then there is a whole history of ethical and moral thought that condemns it.

Per my previous post. EVERYONE IS DOING THIS! We have kids in my daughter's school that live out of district. Their parents lie about their addresses so the children could attend a better school with smaller classes, better teachers and more resources.

Is this an issue because this happened in a border town? Because the children being taken to an out of disctrict school may or may not be illegal immigrants? Or are we just discussing parents (everywhere, legal and otherwise) who con (try to play) the system so their children could attend a better school?

[Lazlo]

Asking for the laws to be enforced is not hating. I am sure the are hard working, decent people. If the hole were that wide I would probably take advantage myself. But I wouldn't throw a fit, and scream "not fair" when the loophole was closed, or when honest men do their jobs.

[Tassa]

We all want whats best for our kids. Of course we do. I'm just not so sure that sneaking across an international border teaches the right lesson. There is more to education than Math and Reading. In raising a child you also have the responsibility to instill right from wrong.

Maybe they are teaching their children, they will do anything to provide them with a better life. Maybe they are teaching them that education is of paramount importance.

It's not like the parents are robbing someone at gunpoint, or looting in front of their children, they are walking them to school.

[Lazlo]

Per my previous post. EVERYONE IS DOING THIS! We have kids in my daughter's school that live out of district. Their parents lie about their addresses so the children could attend a better school with smaller classes, better teachers and more resources.


And that makes it RIGHT? Fuck ME!

[biteme]

Umm, are you serious?

It is my understanding that English is NOT the official laguage of the US.

Also, illegals do not clog emergency rooms with petty bullshit, they tend to go to hospitals and emergency rooms when treatment is absolutely necessary (blanket statement).

Wait, what was that about bilingual education? What about children who immigrate to the US legally but do not speak English? What about the children born to US citizen parents whose first language is NOT English?

Should we also not teach our children other languages in school?


I wasn't born here, came legally, didn't speak English and didn't tax the system, didn't steal your tax dollars, or clog your emergency rooms, or infringe on your child’s education. They have immigration laws for a reason; you break them you're a criminal
I’ve spent time in a few countries, speak a few languages, most not well; why I hate the grammar police but that’s a whole deferent personal issue:proud2:
Yes! Illegals clog emergency rooms!

[Tassa]

Asking for the laws to be enforced is not hating. I am sure the are hard working, decent people. If the hole were that wide I would probably take advantage myself. But I wouldn't throw a fit, and scream "not fair" when the loophole was closed, or when honest men do their jobs.

What I'm saying is, although these laws may be on the books everywhere, it seems it's only being enforced where minorities are taking advantage of it... Bet the school district didn't blink an eye at this type of thing until all those brown kids started showing up.

[Mare]

And that makes it RIGHT? Fuck ME!

No Lazlo it doesn't make it right at all.

And if I fucked you TG might kill me so I will refrain.

I was questioning how immigration seems to have became an issue rather than out of district children.

[Mare]

I wasn't born here, came legally, didn't speak English and didn't tax the system
I’v spent time in a few countries, speak a few languages, most not well; why I hate the grammar police but that’s a whole deferent personal issue:proud2:
Yes! Illegals clog emergency rooms!

If you moved here while youg enough to attend school, then by virtue of your previous post you DID tax the system; simply because you did not speak English but attended an English speaking school.

Where do you go to ER? The one I go to is not overrun by immigrants that I can tell and I live in a major city that is full of immigrants (illegal and legal).

Oh and many places here translate everything to Russian and Polish and sometimes French in addition to Spanish.

[petrina]

I wasn't born here, came legally, didn't speak English and didn't tax the system
I’v spent time in a few countries, speak a few languages, most not well; why I hate the grammar police but that’s a whole deferent personal issue:proud2:
Yes! Illegals clog emergency rooms!

well, coming legally is not an option for people from some countries. and that leads to not being able to find employment at a fair wage. and that leads to needing services. but then you dont qualify for services bc you dont have a ss number.

it seems you are comparing apples to oranges. just a bit. clemintines to oranges then?

[Lazlo]

What I'm saying is, although these laws may be on the books everywhere, it seems it's only being enforced where minorities are taking advantage of it... Bet the school district didn't blink an eye at this type of thing until all those brown kids started showing up.

It is my understanding that "those brown kids" have been showing up for years. The fact that one honest man saw what was going on and put a stop to it and it makes NEWS is what real gets me. It isn't about race, it is about border control. On 9/11, especially, we should be aware of what this means.

Beyond that, it's about the rule of law. It is up to each individual, in his own capacity, to uphold the social contract, or face the consequences of not doing so. When the contract is breached to a critical point, it loses all effectiveness, and anarchy ensues. It sounds like it has already taken hold on the border.

Rome did not fall by a single death blow, but by the cuts of a thousand knives, and the apathy of those who had grown complacent within it.

[Mare]

Just FYI, people who initially enter the US legally and continue to maintain their legal status for as long as they are in the US tend to be from very privileged backgrounds. As a result busing their children to out of district schools is a non issue since they live in the good school districts.

[Lazlo]

well, coming legally is not an option for people from some countries. and that leads to not being able to find employment at a fair wage. and that leads to needing services. but then you dont qualify for services bc you dont have a ss number.

it seems you are comparing apples to oranges. just a bit. clemintines to oranges then?

If you can't come legally, don't come. And if you come anyway, don't abuse the service of those who cannot ethically (nor legally) refuse to help you. It makes you a taker, a leach, a worm - and wholly deserving of the derision that is directed at you.

[Mare]

It is my understanding that "those brown kids" have been showing up for years. The fact that one honest man saw what was going on and put a stop to it and it makes NEWS is what real gets me. It isn't about race, it is about border control. On 9/11, especially, we should be aware of what this means.

Beyond that, it's about the rule of law. It is up to each individual, in his own capacity, to uphold the social contract, or face the consequences of not doing so. When the contract is breached to a critical point, it loses all effectiveness, and anarchy ensues. It sounds like it has already taken hold on the border.

Rome did not fall by a single death blow, but by the cuts of a thousand knives, and the apathy of those who had grown complacent within it.

What brown kids? Did I miss something?

Who put a stop to it and when?

Did I blink and miss a page?

[Pete Bondurant]

Children from Mexico should not be attending American public schools. This is common sense. I do not care how poor they are. I do not care how unfair life is. I do not care if they think that they deserve to go to school in the U.S. because California used to be a part of Mexico back in 1848. If California were a part of Mexico now, the Mexicans living there would think they have a right to attend school in Oregon. If you let them in...you have to let everyone in. If you want to see this country turn into Yugoslavia in the 1990's, then pursue the open border policy. I was in Yugoslavia(Bosnia) in 1995. You don't want that to happen, believe me.

[Mare]

Children from Mexico should not be attending American public schools. This is common sense. I do not care how poor they are. I do not care how unfair life is. I do not care if they think that they deserve to go to school in the U.S. because California used to be a part of Mexico back in 1848. If California were a part of Mexico now, the Mexicans living there would think they have a right to attend school in Oregon. If you let them in...you have to let everyone in. If you want to see this country turn into Yugoslavia in the 1990's, then pursue the open border policy. I was in Yugoslavia(Bosnia) in 1995. You don't want that to happen, believe me.

Pete, it's me Svetlana. I killed Vassily. be careful.

I lived in Yugoslavia in the 1990's Pete and what happened there wasn't because of open borders.

[Lazlo]

What brown kids? Did I miss something?

Who put a stop to it and when?

Did I blink and miss a page?

The brown kids was referenced by Tassa in an earlier post - the CNN article is about a Supt. that is denying access to his school from out of district students - who are also out of country students.

[biteme]

I see them learning how to circumvent the system, and learning that the rule of law doesn't apply to them. I see future drains on society, not productive members. I also see the same subversive message being sent to every student that attends these facilities - Laws mean nothing, do whatever you want to get what you want.

Agree, they are teaching children laws don't apply to them, so what are we to expect of them as adults?

[solange82200]

This is a confusing topic for me, I think there are arguments to be made for both sides. I tend to agree with Morbid about the fact that if this were a bunch of Swedish kids there wouldn't be as much of an uproar, and it also makes me sad that not everyone is lucky enough to be born and live in a country as great as ours.

I hope I'm not too off topic here (Im sure if I am Laz will let me know :proud2:), but living in Miami, Ive always thought how unfair it is that the Cubans are allowed in by the boatloads and automatically become citizens, yet Haitians, many of whom are living in danger every day in their country, are not. It doesn't seem fair to me. And if I were a Mexican mother, Im not sure what I would do exactly, but Im pretty sure whatever it is would be whatever is necessary to give my child a good life, even if it means having to cross a border illegally.

I see Lazlo's point though; how do we balance the needs of our citizens while still being helpful to others?

[Mare]

The brown kids was referenced by Tassa in an earlier post - the CNN article is about a Supt. that is denying access to his school from out of district students - who are also out of country students.

Ah, I must have missed her post then.

Honestly, for me this is not an immigration issue at all. It is an out of district issue. Like I said before, everyne is doing it. I didn't know about it until it effected me. My daughter's school became overcrowded and the school was talking about setting up temporary classrooms on the playground and cutting off pre-k and pre-school. When PTA gave the school a list of out of district parents I didn't complain and neither did anyone else. Frankly, I live where I do so my child would have the privilege of attending schools within a certain school district.

If someone lies about their address so their child could enjoy the same privilege, that is fine with me as long as it doesn't risk my child's school resources.

[Pete Bondurant]

Pete, it's me Svetlana. I killed Vassily. be careful.

I lived in Yugoslavia in the 1990's Pete and what happened there wasn't because of open borders.

Do not confuse me with the facts!:wacko:


Yugoslavia was a federation of several different nations/cultures. That is what will become of the U.S., if this issue is not settled.

[Athena]

I see them learning how to circumvent the system, and learning that the rule of law doesn't apply to them. I see future drains on society, not productive members. I also see the same subversive message being sent to every student that attends these facilities - Laws mean nothing, do whatever you want to get what you want.

Oh, puke! You don't actually believe this, do you?

First off, do you really think these CHILDREN distinguish between illegal and legal? I'd bet the farm they don't even realize what they're doing is wrong, any more than children whose parents misreport income so the kids can get free lunch realize there's something hinky going on.

Secondly, immigrants, legal or otherwise, are associated with significantly lower crime rates (http://www.azstarnet.com/news/171109) than natural-born citizens. It's becoming Americanized that fucks them up.


And, Pete, for christ's sake... Leave Yugoslavia out of this. If you think that was an open border issue, you lack a grasp on the region's history.

[biteme]

If you moved here while youg enough to attend school, then by virtue of your previous post you DID tax the system; simply because you did not speak English but attended an English speaking school.

Where do you go to ER? The one I go to is not overrun by immigrants that I can tell and I live in a major city that is full of immigrants (illegal and legal).

Oh and many places here translate everything to Russian and Polish and sometimes French in addition to Spanish.

IMIGRATION LAWS! Keep numbers of immigrants in check and assure you don't tax the system.
That’s the problem with illegals, they overrun the system,

We go to a private hospital that doesn't have to accept everyone, so I don't have an immigrant overload problem, but county hospitals do. My children went to schools with the regular legal international racial mix that was academically qualified. But none of that changes the fact that illegal immigrants are lawless criminals and tax all our systems
have a nice day:hello:

[biteme]

Oh, puke! You don't actually believe this, do you?

First off, do you really think these CHILDREN distinguish between illegal and legal? I'd bet the farm they don't even realize what they're doing is wrong, any more than children whose parents misreport income so the kids can get free lunch realize there's something hinky going on.

Secondly, immigrants, legal or otherwise, are associated with significantly lower crime rates (http://www.azstarnet.com/news/171109) than natural-born citizens. It's becoming Americanized that fucks them up.


And, Pete, for christ's sake... Leave Yugoslavia out of this. If you think that was an open border issue, you lack a grasp on the region's history.

True they don't recognize any laws, so they can do no wrong, that's the problem; lawless generation rising another one, how do we break the cycle?

[Mare]

IMIGRATION LAWS! Keep numbers of immigrants in check and assure you don't tax the system.
That’s the problem with illegals, they overrun the system,

We go to a private hospital that doesn't have to accept everyone, so I don't have an immigrant overload problem, but county hospitals do. My children went to schools with the regular legal international racial mix that was academically qualified. But none of that changes the fact that illegal immigrants are lawless criminals and tax all our systems
have a nice day:hello:

Immigration laws tend NOT to limit the number of immigrants allowed in and obtaining permanent residence!
(Well, it actually depends which category of immigrant you are)

How do you know the regular legal international racial mix was legal? Vast majority of them could have been illegal. Some illegal immigrants do quite well for themselves (legally).

[petrina]

If you can't come legally, don't come. And if you come anyway, don't abuse the service of those who cannot ethically (nor legally) refuse to help you. It makes you a taker, a leach, a worm - and wholly deserving of the derision that is directed at you.

a taker, a leach, a worm? wholly deserving of derision?

that seems rather sancimonious.

i am very sorry you feel that way. that is very sad-making indeed.

[Pete Bondurant]

Oh, puke! You don't actually believe this, do you?

First off, do you really think these CHILDREN distinguish between illegal and legal? I'd bet the farm they don't even realize what they're doing is wrong, any more than children whose parents misreport income so the kids can get free lunch realize there's something hinky going on.

Secondly, immigrants, legal or otherwise, are associated with significantly lower crime rates (http://www.azstarnet.com/news/171109) than natural-born citizens. It's becoming Americanized that fucks them up.


And, Pete, for christ's sake... Leave Yugoslavia out of this. If you think that was an open border issue, you lack a grasp on the region's history.


These children and what they feel or distinguish is immaterial to me. If they...or their parents, as the case may be...are not legal residents or citizens, they have no right to attend schools in the United States. What hurts their feelings means nothing to me. As far as illegal immigrants being associated with lower crime rates, their very presence is a crime. There are enough violent Latino street gangs in this nation to warrant an aggressive campaign to eliminate such people from the populace herein as well to enforce a stringent border control policy. An open borders policy would prevent an efficacious remedy to this dilemma.


Yugoslavia.....America will become two nations: one American-English speaking and the other Hispanic-Spanish(primarily Mexican) Do not delude yourself into thinking that armed conflict would be impossible if this unfortunate scenario should arise. Remember, even peaceful Canada suffered violence at the hands of Quebecois extemists in the 1960's and 1970's. Do not think it cannot happen here.

[biteme]

Immigration laws tend NOT to limit the number of immigrants allowed in and obtaining permanent residence!
(Well, it actually depends which category of immigrant you are)

How do you know the regular legal international racial mix was legal? Vast majority of them could have been illegal. Some illegal immigrants do quite well for themselves (legally).

allright
give me your rich
keep your poor
LOL

[Mare]

allright
give me your rich
keep your poor
LOL

So...should we kick out the poor Americans?

[Pete Bondurant]

So...should we kick out the poor Americans?

We should only "kick out" ILLEGAL aliens....unless they are Russian escort girls living in the Greater Chicago Metropolitan Area.

[Mare]

We should only "kick out" ILLEGAL aliens....unless they are Russian escort girls living in the Greater Chicago Metropolitan Area.

All Russian Escort Girls are illegal immigrants. Does this apply only to the Russian ones or the entire Eastern Bloc?
LOL Pete

[petrina]

unless they are Russian escort girls living in the Greater Chicago Metropolitan Area.

yeah. lemme stay here. i provide a valuable service. (refraining from lollipop emote)

[biteme]

So...should we kick out the poor Americans?


Let’s do it by republican or democrat

[Mare]

Let’s do it by republican or democrat

isn't that sort of the same thing?

republicans are the rich and democrats are the poor?

what about the green party of the US, the family party and libertarians? what do we do with all of them?

[absinthe]

lazlo, this procedure is enforced already in all school districts in san diego county. still, many of our students live in mexico and cross the border every day to come to school. i'm a teacher and it's never bothered me much. if you're going to be upset about illegal immigration...well, there are much bigger issues you could choose to get upset about. these kids are in school, not committing crimes or bilking welfare.

[absinthe]

why do people keep bringing up yugoslavia? lmfao.

[Manfred von Assenhammer]

This is a confusing topic for me, I think there are arguments to be made for both sides. I tend to agree with Morbid about the fact that if this were a bunch of Swedish kids there wouldn't be as much of an uproar, and it also makes me sad that not everyone is lucky enough to be born and live in a country as great as ours.



i disagree with that. the last fucking thing this country needs is a bunch of illegal Swede bastards. nobody loves government handouts more than Scandanavians. if i start seeing Swedish as a second language around here, i'm fucking out of this country.

oh, and here's something to think on: anywhere that has a large community of Romanian or Polish illegals will have an effect from that. seriously, there's even a couple of places here like that.

[petrina]

"swedish as a second language" would make a good album title

[DamagedGoods]

Remember, even peaceful Canada suffered violence at the hands of Quebecois extemists in the 1960's and 1970's. Do not think it cannot happen here.

Je me souviens!!

[Lazlo]

Oh, puke! You don't actually believe this, do you?

First off, do you really think these CHILDREN distinguish between illegal and legal? I'd bet the farm they don't even realize what they're doing is wrong, any more than children whose parents misreport income so the kids can get free lunch realize there's something hinky going on.



Of course I do Athena. I think you are vastly underestimating the observational skills of children. They are sponges in a way that humbles me. And if they don't realize it initially, it won't take long with their peers to be set straight.

Children learn from the examples their role models set, not so much from what they say.

And Morbid - Your second point is what drew me to this story in the first place! You have been the only one to comment on it. It is to the systems advantage to turn a blind eye to this bullshit. And as long as that is the case, this is much ado about nothing, and examples like these will continue to be so rare that they become national news.

[polis]

LOL -- yeah, some people pay a lot of money to send their kids to language immersion schools.

Pay? Pfft.. I guess most schools in the States are behind with the times. We have dual language schools here. Not just Spanish, for those who are English-only lovers, but other useful languages.

It's a goal for schools here to have children to graduate with two or more languages. If seeing instructions in another language pisses you off, please sit back and contemplate (am i bigot?) and you'll know exactly why.

I personally speak more than two languages. I say, stop being lazy. You have time to sit at the computer. Then go get rosetta stone.

The person with the rant about "illegals" and speaking another language than English...reminds me almost something Hitler would agree upon.

Awesome times.

[Tassa]

And Morbid - Your second point is what drew me to this story in the first place! You have been the only one to comment on it. It is to the systems advantage to turn a blind eye to this bullshit. And as long as that is the case, this is much ado about nothing, and examples like these will continue to be so rare that they become national news.

Which kind of begs the question: why are you convinced that having illegal kids at school is bad?

The schools get money per student, not per legal student, so they are getting funding to educate these kids. Illegal immigrants contribute huge amounts of money to our economy.

If the school is lamenting the loss of funding, why the strict enforcement of residency? It seems as if barring the illegal kids is going to hurt residents as well...

[Eagles Mom]

Which kind of begs the question: why are you convinced that having illegal kids at school is bad?

The schools get money per student, not per legal student, so they are getting funding to educate these kids. Illegal immigrants contribute huge amounts of money to our economy.

If the school is lamenting the loss of funding, why the strict enforcement of residency? It seems as if barring the illegal kids is going to hurt residents as well...

Where do you think the money for the schools comes from?

The schools DO get money per student, from tax dollars. And, SPEAKING ONLY FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, I've worked around several businesses for the last 10 years that hire a good number of illegals. They have been paid strictly cash. There are zero taxes deducted from them. I realize this is not always the case. I do know that sometimes illegals provide false documents that result in them paying taxes with no way to get anything back. Again, I am only relating my personal experience here in saying what I see happen.

So, if a family is paying in zero taxes where is the money coming from that is funding their children's education? Especially if they don't even live in the country where the children are attending school? That part is simple mathematics. So many dollars paid in divided by so many children.

The rest of the discussion is not so simple.

I get a bit tired of people only telling the "illegals contribute so much to our economy" argument. The ones I am familiar with live 8 or 10 people to a two bedroom apartment and send every available penny back to Mexico. Don't misunderstand. I don't blame them. I believe most of us would do what we could make our children's lives better. One of the guys I know now has a several hundred acre cattle ranch at home. His 5 kids go to private school in Mexico. Another guy I know got jumped a couple of weekends ago. He was severely beaten by thugs who managed to steal the $50.00 he had on him. He was taken by ambulance to the hospital, had jaw surgery, CAT scans, x-rays and the works. He has no intention of paying the bill. He's a nice guy, I like him as a person. But that makes me angry, just as it would if he weren't' illegal.

It seems that one side seems to vilify illegals as a group, the other wants to exalt them as a group. What needs to be realized is that they are individuals, good and bad. The same as legal residents.

[solange82200]

I get a bit tired of people only telling the "illegals contribute so much to our economy" argument.

This is something Im confused about as well. I have also heard over and over that illegals do pay taxes, but it confuses me as well how that works, since a lot of them are paid cash.

[Morbid]

Immigrants pay income, property, and sales tax.

[Mare]

You all seem to be confused about illegal immigrants. I understood the debate to be whether children should be able to attend schools outside their district, not whether children attending schools have legal status in the US.
The residency requirements schools have is proof that you live in the neighborhood, NOT that you have legal status in the US.

Just FYI, many illegal immigrants work "legal" jobs on the books. At this time, with the gov't trying to push all businesses to use eVerify (which is a failure) the illegals have to use working social security number to work. They pay taxes but since the social security numbers are not theirs, they do not gain any tax benefit from it.

Are we going to debate illegal immigration to the US (I do not believe the article stated the children are illegal immigrants, merely that they are not SCHOOL DISTRICT residents)?

[Awhell]

Well, lets see. If they don't go to school here, they will still end up here, that's pretty much a guarantee. So, if they will be here anyway within a few years, lets at least teach the future citizens of this country to speak the language, recognize the history, and understand the customs. Then again, I really do believe that the piddly-ass little fence between the countries should just come down anyway.

[Pete Bondurant]

Immigrants pay income, property, and sales tax.


So did John Gotti...well, most of the time, anyway.

[MissKerosene]

Drunken rant wow had to edit! Anyway great debate. I think I will keep my drunken thoughts to myself.

[Athena]

Of course I do Athena. I think you are vastly underestimating the observational skills of children. They are sponges in a way that humbles me. And if they don't realize it initially, it won't take long with their peers to be set straight.

Children learn from the examples their role models set, not so much from what they say.


While I understand that children tend to learn by example, it clearly doesn't have the effect you initially suggested. Again, immigrants, legal or otherwise, are associated with a lower crime rate. Even if they are aware that their parents are bussing them to school illegally, I think YOU underestimate their critical-thinking skills, in that they will realize that their parents did something illegal to provide their children an advantage, and that this act will not serve as justification for just any ol' act of lawlessness.

[biteme]

Which kind of begs the question: why are you convinced that having illegal kids at school is bad?

The schools get money per student, not per legal student, so they are getting funding to educate these kids. Illegal immigrants contribute huge amounts of money to our economy.

If the school is lamenting the loss of funding, why the strict enforcement of residency? It seems as if barring the illegal kids is going to hurt residents as well...
They get money "per" student, take out the illegals and the schools still get same money to spend on the "per" legal" student, and I don't have to fund Mexico's education with my taxes. let Mexico educate their population at their expense not mine, I have my own children to pay for, maybe some of that tax money spent on illegal's education can be used to lower college expenses for the tax payers children.

[polis]

They get money "per" student, take out the illegals and the schools still get same money to spend on the "per" legal" student, and I don't have to fund Mexico's education with my taxes. let Mexico educate their population at their expense not mine, I have my own children to pay for, maybe some of that tax money spent on illegal's education can be used to lower college expenses for the tax payers children.

you're grossly misinformed. Read up and educate yourself on the matter before you respond. They don't get the same money if you took out the illegals. The money used to keep the borders guarded and fighting the war against drugs could give higher education for all.

Anyhow on with the hate. <3

[biteme]

you're grossly misinformed. Read up and educate yourself on the matter before you respond. They don't get the same money if you took out the illegals. The money used to keep the borders guarded and fighting against the war against drugs could give higher education for all.

Anyhow on with the hate. <3
I try to read slow and educate myself as much as possible.
Same money per student! Per student. They get the same amount of money to send PER student. the money spent on illegals can be used to lower collage education for the tax payer
No hate, I just like to pick the causes I give money to, I don't give to those that steal. I don't like funding Mexico's education program when there are LEGAL AMERICANS that can't afford an education.
I buy school supplies for a couple of really cool local teachers because I found out they were spending their own money on supplies because of tight budgets. The budget as a whole is divided by district and students, they're could be more money per child in the future if there where less "only legal' children to divide by

[Tassa]

They get money "per" student, take out the illegals and the schools still get same money to spend on the "per" legal" student, and I don't have to fund Mexico's education with my taxes. let Mexico educate their population at their expense not mine, I have my own children to pay for, maybe some of that tax money spent on illegal's education can be used to lower college expenses for the tax payers children.

Schools do not distinguish between legal and illegal students. Period. Schools are funded per student and per said student's attendance. The school in the article stands to lose millions! Millions of dollars in losses to a single school will have a detrimental effect on every student.

[Morbid]

The school in the article stands to lose millions!

Not that I know the exact number, but if the school were to lose a substantial amount - like I stated before - nothing will change for better or for worse (depending on your stance). It's all about the $, people. It always has been, it always will.

[polis]

Same money per student! Per student. They get the same amount of money to send PER student. the money spent on illegals can be used to lower collage education for the tax payer
No hate, I just like to pick the causes I give money to, I don't give to those that steal. I don't like funding Mexico's education program when their are LEGAL AMERICANS that can't afford an education

Yep, schools lose money when there are less students. They will close schools down if the population of the student body isn't enough. Thus sending kids to other schools, causing higher student to teacher ratio and crowding. It happens on the daily.

This issue of students going to school out of district with illegals, but parents who drive that extra 10 miles to take their kid to a better school. It happens all the time.

Anyhow, you're not funding mexico's education program. Seriously, dramatic much? There is a small percetage of those who go to school to the states (btw these kids are US citizens) and their parents are either Mexican Nationals or Americans who are residing in Mexico.

Mexico's school system is expensive but their academics (specifically Math and Science) makes American education system look like helmet-wearing retards that slam their heads against the small yellow bus' windows.

Those Children you are bitching about are AMERICANS. Like it or not, they were popped out on this land. Just send your kid to college in mexico when they get older (btw American universities only have presitge over Mexico's) because like I said before graduate school is free there. Wish the US would do that instead of paying for free grade school.

[biteme]

Yep, schools lose money when there are less students. They will close schools down if the population of the student body is enough. Thus sending kids to other schools, causing higher student to teacher ratio and crowding. It happens on the daily.

This issue of students going to school out of district with illegals, but parents who drive that extra 10 miles to take their kid to a better school. It happens all the time.

Anyhow, you're not funding Mexico's education program. Seriously, dramatic much? There is a small percetage of those who go to school to the states (btw these kids are US citizens) and their parents are either Mexican Nationals or Americans who are residing in Mexico.

Mexico's school system is expensive but their academics (specifically Math and Science) makes American education system look like helmet-wearing retards that slam their heads against the small yellow bus' windows.

Those Children you are bitching about are AMERICANS. Like it or not, they were popped out on this land. Just send your kid to college in mexico when they get older (btw American universities only have presitge over Mexico's) because like I said before graduate school is free there. Wish the US would do that instead of paying for free grade school.

The one's I'm talking about where NOT pooped out here! If they were they'd be legal
Prestige isn't what this is about, let Mexico make their system affordable instead of financially draining ours. Maybe our educational system wouldn't suck if we didn't have to supplement Mexico's education
You take out illegals it leaves more money no matter how you want to cut the pie.
You tell me to educate myself before making statements and you haven't made one educated statement!

[polis]

The one's I'm talking about where NOT pooped out here! If they were they'd be legal
Prestige isn't what this is about, let Mexico make their system affordable instead of financially draining ours. Maybe our educational system wouldn't suck if we didn't have to supplement Mexico's education
You take out illegals it leaves more money no matter how you want to cut the pie.
You tell me to educate myself before making statements and you haven't made one educated statement!

more legals than illegals. just because they live in mexico and come over here doesn't mean they are mexican nationals.

btw. this article was about students going to school out of district. this would count for legal "white americans" as well. however, those with a narrow vision, see that it is only about those damn illegal mexicans.

I think you're mad because you're not understanding the topic or the article. As I said earlier, rants made in which even Hitler would support. Good job.

[biteme]

more legals than illegals. just because they live in mexico and come over here doesn't mean they are mexican nationals.

btw. this article was about students going to school out of district. this would count for legal "white americans" as well. however, those with a narrow vision, see that it is only about those damn illegal mexicans.

I think you're mad because you're not understanding the topic or the article. As I said earlier, rants made in which even Hitler would support. Good job.
The Hitler remark tells me all I need to know about you.
:hello:

[polis]

The Hitler remark tells me all I need to know about you.
:hello:

as does all your comments on this thread. everyone knows what to think of you.:lollypop:

btw, you could have tried making a rebuttal on everything else but you didnt. pity.

[Pete Bondurant]

Please....do not....denigrate...the Führer. Have some respect, people!:wacko:

[polis]

Please....do not....denigrate...the Führer. Have some respect, people!:wacko:

my bad. you're right. to compare him to someone lesser than is an insult.


p.s. thanks to those who sent me all positive reps. for this thread. :lollypop:

[Pete Bondurant]

p.s. thanks to those who sent me all positive reps. for this thread. :lollypop:

FUCK YOU AND FUCK THIS STUPID LEFT-WING THREAD!:crazy:


:laser: :bandit:

[polis]

FUCK YOU AND FUCK THIS STUPID LEFT-WING THREAD!:crazy:


:laser: :bandit:

I know you got wet from just saying that. Good for you. Let it all out hun.

[Gidget]

Funny. This same story came up down here in Floriduh ... only it wasn't illegal immigrants trying to get into the 'good' schools, it was residents of a county with a shitty public school system trying to sneak their kids into the neighboring county's (much better) schools. The schools became overcrowded, the parents who actually lived in the district raised holy hell, the kids who didn't live in the area were kicked out, the whole drama made front page news.

How is this any different?