Charles Manson & Family

[impqueen]

Whoa.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/03/14/csi.manson.ap/index.html

DEATH VALLEY NATIONAL PARK, California (AP) -- Bone-white stretches of salt, leached up from the lifeless soil, lay like a shroud over the high desert where a paranoid Charles Manson holed up after an orgy of murder nearly four decades ago.

Now, as then, few venture into this alkaline wilderness -- gold-diggers, outlaws, loners content to live and let live.

But a determined group of outsiders recently made the trek. They were leading forensic investigators searching for new evidence of death -- clues pointing to possible decades-old clandestine graves.

And the results of just-completed followup tests suggest bodies could indeed be lying beneath the parched ground. The test findings -- described in detail to The Associated Press, which had accompanied the site search -- conclude there are two likely clandestine grave sites at Barker Ranch, and one additional site that merits further investigation.

Next step, the ad hoc investigators urge: Dig.

For years, rumors have swirled about other possible Manson family victims -- hitchhikers who visited them at the ranch and were not seen again, runaways who drifted into the camp then fell out of favor.

The same jailhouse confessions that helped investigators initially connect the band of misfits living in the Panamint Mountains to the gruesome killings that terrorized Los Angeles hinted at other deaths. Manson follower Susan Atkins boasted to her cell mate on November 1, 1969, that there were "three people out in the desert that they done in." Other stories surfaced. In the absence of bodies, they were forgotten.

"We prosecuted Manson and the family for all the murders we could prove. But you know, could he have killed someone else? Possibly. Could another member of the family have killed someone? Sure," said Steve Kay, a former deputy district attorney.

I'll be watching this one.

[Dakota Valkyrie]

http://i44.tinypic.com/33lm241.jpg
Charles Manson's last hideout, Barker Ranch, has been gutted by fire.[/B][/B]

Death Valley National Park spokesman Terry Baldino said Thursday that the isolated cabin was discovered burned on Tuesday.

He says it's not known if it was an accident or a deliberate act.

The cabin was last seen intact Friday and may have burned over the weekend.

Manson and his followers hid at the cabin after killing actress Sharon Tate and seven others in the summer of 1969.

He was arrested there that fall and is serving a life sentence.

For years, there were rumors that other Manson family victims might be buried on the property.

Investigators using high-tech forensic gear found nothing when they dug at the ranch last May, however.

A restoration crew was at the ranch about a month ago to clean it and make repairs.

Investigators were working to determine the cause of the fire.

A park archaeologist will help determine whether the building should be rebuilt.http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-manson-ranch,0,892374.story

Longer article: http://blogs.laweekly.com/ladaily/crime/charles-mansons-hide-away-gutt/

[Abroad]

What would be the reasons for repairing it? Does it have some sort of historical significance apart from the fact that a gang of murdering lunatics once hid out there?

[Dakota Valkyrie]

According to the longer article:

"If there hadn't been the notoriety of Manson I wonder if anyone would have cared or if there would be any interest," said Baldino. "It was a valuable resource to us and not because of Manson. It was because it was another piece of mining history. Our history goes back to the 1880's."

[Abroad]

:blush2:

I should clearly have followed the link.

Thank you for teasing out the relevant passage for me, DV.







And if it is relevant to mining history, I can see why they might want to restore it. Pity they cannot do so without furnishing ghouls with a place of morbid pilgrimage as well.

[Angelinfl]

Why would you rebuild it.... I see no point period. I don't even like the thought of rebuilding it. I'm sure there are better uses for money and a killer like Manson should never be glorified. He should have sat in Old Sparky and not life in prision.

[Tazzzz]

Susan Atkins, 61
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/CRIME/06/05/california.manson.family.hearing/art.gi.jpghttp://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/CRIME/06/05/california.manson.family.hearing/art.atkins.jpghttp://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/CRIME/06/05/california.manson.family.hearing/art.manson.courtesy.jpg


http://tatefamilylegacy.com/images/atkins/SA20.jpghttp://tatefamilylegacy.com/images/atkins/SA18.jpghttp://tatefamilylegacy.com/images/atkins/SA14.jpg


The other "Charlies Angels".
http://www.laobserved.com/images/mansongirls608.jpg


Sharon Tate was accually one of my distant Kin folk. I say Let the bitch rot and die behind bars were she belongs. Susan Atkins said Tate "asked me to let her baby live. ... I told her I didn't have any mercy on her. Her actual words were, ""Look bitch, I don't care about you. I don't care if you're going to have a baby or not. You're going to die and I don't feel anything about it." Then she stabbed a 8 month pregnant Sharon Tate 16 fucking times. Yeah I don't care about you either Susan or any of the rest of them.



The longest-serving female inmate in the California prison system, Atkins is reportedly dying of brain cancer and has had a leg amputated. A request for compassionate release is pending before prison authorities.


LOS ANGELES, California (CNN) -- The woman who stabbed pregnant actress Sharon Tate to death will be considered for parole from prison a month after the 40th anniversary of the killings that cast a shadow of fear over southern California.

Susan Atkins, 61, has been denied parole in 17 previous hearings, but the former "Manson Family" member now is terminally ill with brain cancer and is paralyzed.

Charles Manson used his hypnotic powers to direct Atkins and other "family" members to kill seven people, including the pregnant Tate, in a two-night rampage that terrorized the city of Los Angeles, California, in August 1969.

Atkins -- who was initially sentenced to death along with Manson and three others -- will have her 18th parole hearing on September 2, according to a spokesman with the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation.

In July of last year, Atkins -- California's longest-serving female inmate -- was denied a compassionate release in a unanimous decision by the California Board of Parole Hearings.

She has repeatedly been described as a model prisoner who has accepted responsibility for her role in the slayings, and she now shuns Manson.

By her own admission, Atkins held Tate down as she pleaded for mercy and stabbed the pregnant woman 16 times. In a 1993 parole board hearing, Atkins said Tate "asked me to let her baby live. ... I told her I didn't have any mercy on her."

After stabbing Tate to death, according to historical accounts of the murders, Atkins scrawled the word "pig" in blood on the door of the home Tate shared with her husband, director Roman Polanski. Polanski was not home at the time, but three of Tate's house guests were also slain by the killers, as was a teenager who was visiting the home's caretaker in his nearby cottage.

A Web site maintained by her husband and attorney, James Whitehouse, says Atkins is now paralyzed over 85 percent of her body and cannot sit up in bed or even be moved into a wheelchair.

However, despite her declining condition and her impressive prison record, the site says, "there is still a very real chance the Parole Board will nonetheless insist her release would be a danger to society."

Atkins' compassionate release was opposed by Tate's sister, Debra, Los Angeles County prosecutors and California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, among others. However, the former prosecutor who won her conviction, Vincent Bugliosi, said he supports Atkins' request for release.

"She has paid substantially, though not completely, for her horrendous crimes," Bugliosi told the Los Angeles Times last year. "Paying completely would mean imposing the death penalty."

Bugliosi is the author of several books on the Manson case, including "Helter Skelter."

Debra Tate told CNN in an e-mail in March that she does not believe any Manson family member convicted of murder should ever be set free, saying the slayings were "so vicious, so inhumane, so depraved, that there is no turning back."

"The 'Manson Family' murderers are sociopaths, and from that, they can never be rehabilitated," Debra Tate said. "They should all stay right where they are -- in prison -- until they die. There will never be true justice for my sister Sharon and the other victims of the 'Manson Family.' Keeping the murderers in prison is the least we, as a society who values justice, can do."

In a manuscript posted on her Web site, Atkins, who was known within the Manson family as Sadie Mae Glutz, wrote that "this is the past I have to live with, and I have to live with it every day."

"Unlike the reader, or the people who seem to think Charles Manson was cool, I can't think about it for an hour or so and then go on with my life. Just like the families and friends of the victims, this is with me every day. I have to wake up every day with this and no matter what I do for the rest of my life and no matter how much I give back to the community I will never be able to replace what my crime took away. And that's not 'neat,' and that's not 'cool.'"

Atkins was housed in the California Institution for Women at Frontera until May 2008, when her declining health caused her to be moved to Central California Women's Facility at Chowchilla.

Manson and those convicted along with him in the murders -- Atkins, Patricia Krenwinkel, Leslie Van Houten and Charles "Tex" Watson -- have been in California prisons for more than three decades.

All were initially sentenced to death, only to have their sentences commuted to life in prison when the Supreme Court struck down death penalty laws in 1972, establishing a four-year moratorium on executions. Van Houten was released for six months after her conviction was overturned, but was reconvicted.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/06/05/california.manson.family.hearing/index.html


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++

The Tate family website
http://tatefamilylegacy.com/susanatkinsletters.html

[Thinkgoat]

A request for compassionate release is pending before prison authorities.

Screw that. She didn't show much compassion while slaughtering Sharon Tate.

I couldn't care less if she is paralyzed. Let her lay in her bed and drop some food coloring into the pool of spittle that accumulates on the floor and have some gloved guard go in daily and write the word PIG with it on her cell walls and ceiling...you know, where she can enjoy it.

I have no sympathy. Does it show?

[Tazzzz]

Rest In Peace Sharon Tate and baby Paul Polanski
http://www.gravehunter.net/Sharon_Tate.jpg

Sharon Tate January 24, 1943 to August 9, 1969
http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/08_04/060SharonTate_468x617.jpg

[Death Bed]

Interviews with Charles Manson are hilarious.

[petrina]

do you really think they were all sociopaths? they just happened to find each other and there was not a sane one amongst them? it seems a little more likely to me that they show how a crazy person can bring out your innate craziness and make you do things you would not ordinarily do. but then, idk much about them individually - like previous to their charlieness or after their incarceration.

and i do believe that tho it sucks that she has cancer, she should continue to be incarcerated in some capacity. im sorry, but the DOC just has to deal with it.

i have had clients tell me that they were released from traffic/petty drug warrants for being "too sick to be in jail". they were fine. the municipality was either hiv-phobic or didnt want to pay for their meds. well, taxpayers are gonna pay for her illness either way - and she has crazy eyes. so keep her.

[Peeperann]

A request for compassionate release is pending before prison authorities.

I'm with Thinkgoat on this. Her brain cancer and amputated leg are only the beginning of justice for her. Let her wither away and die in there. Alone. 40 years? That's nothing to what she took away from Sharon and her baby and family.

[Death Bed]

do you really think they were all sociopaths? they just happened to find each other and there was not a sane one amongst them? it seems a little more likely to me that they show how a crazy person can bring out your innate craziness and make you do things you would not ordinarily do.

I agree, I don't think they were all insane, just young, dumb and full of cum. And hallucinogenics. Then they were crazy. While Charlie's ultimate intentions were noble, he lacks in IQ when he makes up for in charisma. That is why he failed.

[Whisper]

I thought a few months ago she was denied??If they release her they are nuts!!Where was the compassion when they sliced Sharon Tate and her baby boy up and then strung them up in a noose over a wooden beam??Stabbing and murdering her and her baby wasnt enough she had to go further and string her up.I say let her die in prison,no meds no treatments and string her up after shes gone and that still isnt enough for what she did.I dont care about the Charles Manson connection and his goof troop followers people have their own minds no matter what.LSD theory,sorry town I was raised in we used to ask our parents for $4.00 each weekend to go to the movies(town didnt have a movie theatre,go figure) and we would buy a hit,back then it wasnt a big deal.None of us sliced up pregnant women and strung them and their babies up over a wooden beam.I dont think any amount of time will cover what they did to any of those people not just her!!I dont remember the Manson family saga but its weird b/c I brought Helter Skelter home to read the other night from my moms .She remembers it all.

[malq]

This has been brewing for some time. Patricia Krenwinkle is using some angles as well. It will nor be long before Atkins dies. Watching old interviews of her she seems almost proud of it. I say old sadie may glutz can rot in jail at home. It doesn't matter much. She is almost dead and this is sweet revenge for some, watching her die a slow death. the Tate family has been to every parole hearing for all of them and has a powerful message.
here is their website. If it wasn't for them, fear not, they would be out.:cheers:
http://tatefamilylegacy.com/

[Tazzzz]

I agree, I don't think they were all insane, just young, dumb and full of cum. And hallucinogenics. Then they were crazy. While Charlie's ultimate intentions were noble, he lacks in IQ when he makes up for in charisma. That is why he failed.


Geeze DB, Charlie thought he was Jesus Fucking Christ, for fucks sake. There wasnt any noble bone in his whole body. LaBianca was stabed a shitload of times with a bayonet then the bitch carved "War" on his belly, but that wasnt good enough for them, They went back with a ivory-handled carving fork and stabbed him 14 more time, THEN stuck a steak knife in his throat.

Then they used the blood to write "RISE, DEATH TO PIGS HEALTER SKELTER on the walls. Manson was trying to start a race war, by killing white people and framing the black people for it.

[Zealant]

Screw that. She didn't show much compassion while slaughtering Sharon Tate.

I couldn't care less if she is paralyzed. Let her lay in her bed and drop some food coloring into the pool of spittle that accumulates on the floor and have some gloved guard go in daily and write the word PIG with it on her cell walls and ceiling...you know, where she can enjoy it.

I have no sympathy. Does it show?

I searched, and was able to find sympathy for her.

Right in here:
http://1828.mshaffer.com/images/noah_webster_dictionary_1828_small.jpg

[Death Bed]

Manson was trying to start a race war, by killing white people and framing the black people for it.

And he would have gotten away with it too! If it wasn't for you darn fool kids!

OMG wouldn't that be awesome? Scooby & the gang vs. the Manson Family? Charlie would probably offer them some special scooby snacks and then indoctrinate them into his cult. What's the chick with the glasses name? Thelma? Louise? She would make a good Manson chick.

[Tazzzz]

And he would have gotten away with it too! If it wasn't for you darn fool kids!.

Dont Cha Know that , Happiness.... is a warm.... yes it is ......GUN!!!.




I need a fix 'cause I'm going down
Down to the bits that I left uptown
I need a fix cause I'm going down

Happiness is a warm gun
Bang Bang Shoot Shoot

When I hold you in my arms

And I feel my finger on your trigger

I know, nobody can do me no harm

Because

Happiness is a warm...... yes it is .......gunnnnn )

[petrina]

Charlie would probably offer them some special scooby snacks and then indoctrinate them into his cult. What's the chick with the glasses name? Thelma? Louise? She would make a good Manson chick.

it scares me a little how excited you seem to be by this scenario.

[Death Bed]

it scares me a little how excited you seem to be by this scenario.

You seem surprised.

[LissaLou]

Her name was Velma, DB.

[Death Bed]

Jinkies, LissaLou! You're right!

http://images.buycostumes.com/mgen/merchandiser/17748.jpg

While I was looking for a pic of Velma to post, I found a couple disturbing items of note.

1) Velma has her own fan site (www.velmadinkley.com/).
2) There is a site dedicated to Scooby Doo porn (http://scoobydooporn.info). NSFW!

Are either of these necessary?

[brokenandtwisted]

Sharon Tate was hot, Susan Atkins looks like a man in those last two photos. We know why she had no compassion...it's like the ugly ass librarian girl fucking up the head cheerleader with no sympathy. :crazy:

I am however shocked that a parole board would declare someone with 85% of their body paralyzed a 'danger to society'. :lol2:

[Lazlo]

BT - I agree. She is not a physical danger to society. I would argue on a philosophical front that her early release is a danger to society by setting a precedent - "Here is one of our most infamous criminals, and she is being released due to health", contrary to the terms of her sentence. It devalues the word of justice.

Let her sentence run it's course. It is about fulfilled. The only thing left is cremation and burial in an unmarked grave! It is the ONLY fitting ending for a "LIFE" sentence. If we don't literally mean mean it - don't impose it!

[malq]

BT - I agree. She is not a physical danger to society. I would argue on a philosophical front that her early release is a danger to society by setting a precedent - "Here is one of our most infamous criminals, and she is being released due to health", contrary to the terms of her sentence. It devalues the word of justice.

Let her sentence run it's course. It is about fulfilled. The only thing left is cremation and burial in an unmarked grave! It is the ONLY fitting ending for a "LIFE" sentence. If we don't literally mean mean it - don't impose it!


I wonder if that herpes sore on her lip came from Charlie?
well said but you could also argue to let her go and free the state of the financial burden. her care is astronomical. So after thinking about this all day, It might work to let her out on conditional release. electronic bracelet, probation appointments she must make(after all she is attending her parole hearing in a gurney), strict house arrest with no contact with the media.
Just alone in a bedroom waiting to die with a huge portrait of Sharon Tate instead of a tv.

the financial cost is the biggest issue. Even though California is bankrupt.
It would be a circus anyway you look at it.

[Lazlo]

I wonder if that herpes sore on her lip came from Charlie?
well said but you could also argue to let her go and free the state of the financial burden. her care is astronomical. So after thinking about this all day, It might work to let her out on conditional release. electronic bracelet, probation appointments she must make(after all she is attending her parole hearing in a gurney), strict house arrest with no contact with the media.
Just alone in a bedroom waiting to die with a huge portrait of Sharon Tate instead of a tv.

the financial cost is the biggest issue. Even though California is bankrupt.
It would be a circus anyway you look at it.

Thanks for that very valid point. And in a pragmatic view, an entirely correct one. One question, however: does simply releasing her from prison release the State of California from the responsibility of her care, or simply transfer the burden from one agency to another?

But, to remain true to my original thought, I propose that it is wrong to release someone for heath reasons if they are sentenced to life in prison. It should be foreseen that they will eventually fail, and that cost will increase as they approach the end of their lives. It should be intrinsic in the sentence that no extraordinary measures will be employed to extend the natural span. If an inmate develops cancer, meds to keep the pain tolerable should be dispensed, but no aggressive treatment given. The psychological effect of knowing that one will die IN prison should be part of the punishment. If the State is unwilling, (or unable), to bear the burden a life sentence implies, it should not impose the penalty.

I have always felt that a life sentence was a gutless alternative to execution; a feel good compromise to appease the squeamish! To avoid the responsibility for the sentence at the end, when it becomes uncomfortable, is, imho, cowardice.

[Whisper]

(CNN) --
The president she tried to assassinate has been dead for nearly three years, and her longtime idol and leader, Charles Manson, remains in prison.

Lynnette "Squeaky" Fromme appears in court in Los Angeles, California, in December 1969.
However, Lynette "Squeaky" Fromme is about to get her first taste of real freedom in more than three decades.

According to the Federal Bureau of Prisons, Fromme, now 60, is set to be released on parole August 16.

Fromme is housed at the Federal Medical Center at Carswell, Texas.

For years, she was one of Manson's few remaining followers, as many other "Manson Family" members have shunned him. A prison spokeswoman would not say whether Fromme continues to correspond with Manson.

Fromme was convicted in 1975 of pointing a gun at then-President Gerald Ford in Sacramento, California. Secret Service agents prevented her from firing, but the gun was later found to have no bullet in the chamber, although it contained a clip of ammunition.

In a 1987 interview with CNN affiliate WCHS, Fromme, then housed in West Virginia, recalled the president "had his hands out and was waving ... and he looked like cardboard to me. But at the same time, I had ejected the bullet in my apartment and I used the gun as it was."

She said she knew Ford was in town and near her, "and I said, 'I gotta go and talk to him,' and then I thought, 'That's foolish. He's not going to stop and talk to you.' People have already shown you can lay blood in front of them and they're not, you know, they don't think anything of it. I said, 'Maybe I'll take the gun,' and I thought, 'I have to do this. This is the time.' "

She said it never occurred to her that she could wind up in prison. Asked whether she had any regrets, Fromme said, "No. No, I don't. I feel it was fate." However, she said she thought that her incarceration was "unnecessary" and that she couldn't see herself repeating her offense.

"My argument to the jury was, if she wanted to kill him, she would have shot him," John Virga, a Sacramento attorney appointed to defend Fromme, told CNN on Tuesday. "She'd been around guns. And let's be realistic: We know the Manson family, at least some of them, are killers."

Fromme was sentenced to life in prison, but parole was an option at the time, although the federal system later abolished it, said Felicia Ponce, spokeswoman for the Bureau of Prisons. Inmates do receive "good time" -- for every year and one day they serve, Ponce said, 54 days are lopped off their sentence.

Fromme became eligible for parole in 1985, Ponce said. According to reports, she for years waived her right to a parole hearing. The Bureau of Prisons would not say whether she changed her mind and requested a hearing, but the U.S. Parole Commission's Web site says that everyone who wishes to be considered for parole, except those committed under juvenile delinquency procedures, must complete a parole application.

Federal inmates serving life are generally paroled after 30 years, unless the parole commission decides to block the release, according to a commission spokesman. Inmates who are paroled remain under supervision until the commission decides to terminate the sentence.

Fromme was not granted parole until July 2008, Ponce said. She was not released then, however, because of extra time added to her sentence for a 1987 escape attempt from the West Virginia prison, which occurred after her interview that same year. She was found two days later, only a few miles from the prison. At the time, prison officials said they were looking into rumors that Fromme escaped after hearing Manson was ill, according to news reports.

FMC-Carswell spokeswoman Maria Douglas would not comment on Fromme's behavior in prison in recent years.

Fromme reportedly joined Manson's family after meeting him in California in 1967. She was not involved in the murders of seven people, including pregnant actress Sharon Tate, on August 9 and 10, 1969, that landed Manson and other followers in prison. However, she and other Manson followers maintained a vigil outside the courthouse during his trial.

In the WCHS interview, Fromme said that Manson should not be incarcerated because "he didn't kill anybody. ... I would rather be in, because I know I laid a lot of my thinking in his mind."

Virga said he told the jury that Fromme assaulted Ford, but did not attempt to assassinate him. If Fromme had killed the president, no one would have listened to her, he said. "She didn't want people to think she was a kook."

And she wasn't, he said, recalling that Fromme was very cooperative during her trial and describing her as "a bright, intelligent young woman" from a middle-class family. "It's just hard to imagine how she got all caught up with Manson," he said.

Fromme wanted to be heard on issues including the environment, he said. "She had certain causes that she wanted to talk about. But first and foremost in her mind was always Manson."

Explaining herself after the attempt, according to the book "Real Life at the White House," Fromme said, "Well, you know, when people treat you like a child and pay no attention to the things you say, you have to do something."

During her trial, Virga traveled to Washington to depose Ford, who testified on videotape about the incident.

In the 1978 interview, Fromme called Manson "a once-in-a-lifetime soul. ... He's got more heart and spirit than anyone I've ever met." She said she still corresponded with him. "He's got everything he wants coming from me, 'cause he gave me everything."

She said then she didn't plan to seek a parole hearing: "The parole board does not hold my life in its hands. And I don't want to be too critical, but men tend to think they do. Charlie never thought he did. He never expressed all this desire for power, this desire for acceptance."

Ford died in 2006 at age 93. The Gerald R. Ford Presidential Foundation did not respond to CNN requests for comment on Fromme's release.

Virga, who is still practicing in Sacramento, said he had not heard from Fromme since her sentencing in 1975. "I wish her the best, and hope everything works out for her, and hope she stays out of trouble," he said. "She needs to stay out of trouble. She's been in prison a long time ... it was, in my mind, a tragedy that she wound up a disciple of Mansonhttp://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/08/05/squeaky.fromme.release/index.htmlhttp://i27.tinypic.com/radel4.jpgLynnette "Squeaky" Fromme appears in court in Los Angeles, California, in December 1969

[Nell]

That wackjob will do something else to get put back in jail. Anyone that loves Manson that much is just fucked in the head.

[Rawrehz]

she wont last long on the outs.
especially when people find out who she is, shell be an instant target for something.

[groovy135]

OMG,,,,:evil:

I am so excited she is getting out,,,wouldn't it be great if she would talk!!
I wonder if she will remain loyal to Charlie or if she will shun him.

If she has an once of sense left, she'll stay mum and sell her story for millions $$$,,,then she can go build a shrine to Chuck or start The Family 2.0,,,whatever LOL,,,I bet they never let her go and visit Manson before he dies,,,I hear he is sick, but who knows??.

[DogMom]

Hand her over to PETA. They deserve each other.

[Whisper]

Thought since they are back in the news lately with Lynette "Sqeaky" Fromm Id check some things out b/c I was a baby and dont remember anything except what Ive read and seen on TV. .Profile of Charles MansonCharles Manson
http://i25.tinypic.com/25q4rux.jpgIn 1969 Charlie Manson emerged from his prison cell onto the streets of Haight-Ashbury and soon became the leader of followers who became known as the Family. Manson wanted to get into the music business, but when that failed his criminal personality emerged and he and some of his followers became involved in torture and murder. Most notably were the murders of actress Sharon Tate who was eight months pregnant and four others at her home, along with the murders of Leon and Rosemary LaBiancaBorn Charles Maddox
Charles Manson was born on November 12, 1934 in Cincinnati, Ohio. His 16-year-old mother, Kathleen Maddox was promiscuous, a criminal, drank too much and failed to take care of her illegitimate child. Soon after his birth, Kathleen was briefly married to William Manson, and Charlie's last name changed from Maddox to Manson. In 1940, she was found guilty of Strong Armed Robbery and sent to prison.A Childhood Story:
A story Manson often told described the lack of care his mother showed him. "Mom was in a cafe one afternoon with me on her lap. The waitress, a would-be mother without a child of her own, jokingly told my Mom she'd buy me from her. Mom replied, 'A pitcher of beer and he's yours.' The waitress set up the beer, Mom stuck around long enough to finish it off and left the place without me. Several days later my uncle had to search the town for the waitress and take me home."From Reform School to Prison:
In 1951 Manson's criminal activity moved from state to more serious federal offenses after he was caught driving a stolen vehicle over state lines. For his crime, Charlie graduated from reform school to federal prison. . He was transferred to another prison and cleaned up his act, resulting in his release in 1954. During the next year, he met and married 17-year-old Rosalie Jean Willis.Charles M. Manson Jr. is Born:
Soon after their marriage, the newlyweds took off to California in a stolen car. Rosalie became pregnant.Being on probation failed to slow him down, however, and his probation was revoked and he was sent to Terminal Island Prison for three years. Rosalie gave birth to Charles M. Manson, Jr. (who committed suicide in 1993) and left town with a new boyfriend. Charlie never saw his wife or his child again.Pimping and Stealing:
Manson was released from prison in 1958 and supported himself as a pimp in Hollywood. By 1959 he was again in front of the courts after being arrested for trying to cash a check stolen from a mailbox. He received a 10-year suspended sentence, allowing him to meet and marry his second wife before his next arrest in June 1960Charles Luther Mason is Born
Manson spent the next seven years first at the McNeil Island Penitentiary in Washington State then at Terminal Island in California. His wife divorced him after the birth of his second son, Charles Luther Manson. He was released in March 1967 and headed to Haight-Ashbury, where he blended in among many other outcasts who gravitated to the area in the 1960sMary Brunner
Soon after arriving in the area he met Mary Brunner, who was a college graduate working as a librarian at UC Berkeley.She accepted his desire to sleep with other women, started doing drugs. She was instrumental in helping entice people they met to join the Manson Family. Manson the GuruLynette Fromme
was one of the first to join Brunner and Manson. The three lived together on Cole Street in San Francisco.The Family began to grow as did Charlie's reputation for having a kind of sixth sense about him. His manipulative traits from childhood, polished during his years in prison, were now refined and his followers believed he was a guru/prophet. Charlie Manson and The Familyhttp://i29.tinypic.com/15dnd6t.jpgSpahn's Movie Ranch:
the family grew, they moved like gypsies, eventually ending up at Spahn's Movie Ranch in Chatsworth. On April 1, 1968 Brunner gave birth to Manson's third son, Valentine Michael Manson. Manson, elated at having a son to carry on his legacy, made it known he wanted more family children. Brunner, now mother to Manson's child, grew even more loyal to his ideas and to the growing family.Moving Around Hollywood's Elite:
Manson was a small wry man, who was generally unattractive which, further enhanced by his poor personal hygiene. He was hired by Universal Studios to consult on a movie because of his ability to quickly quote passages in the Bible.. Denis Wilson and Terry Melcher:
Manson met Dennis Wilson, drummer for the Beach Boys. Wilson and Manson became friends and Manson and his girls spent a lot of time hanging around Wilson's mansion, driving his cars and using his personal belongings, even while Wilson was out on the road.Rejected From Hollywood:
Dennis Wilson eventually pulled away from the family. He had his manager handle the dirty business of getting rid Manson and his followers.For Manson, the rejection from Hollywood's elite and the failed production of his music taped into his anger and jealousy of those who were rich and famous.The Bible and The Beatles:
In December 1968, he and Charles Watson listened to the new Beatle's album, The White Album, and Manson became obsessed with some of the songs, especially Helter Skelter and Revolution 9. His interpretation of the lyrics, woven in with his view of Revelations, resulted in a philosophy which envisioned an apocalypse brought on by a race war of blacks killing whites.
According to his philosophy, the blacks would win, but would ultimately turn to Manson and The Family to help lead the new world.The Fifth Angel:
he convinced many that he was "the fifth angel" (Verse 1 of the Book of Revelation) who would be given "the key to the pit of the abyss,Bernard Crowe:
In the summer of 1969 Manson's message became darker as his followers' loyalty increased. This loyalty was constantly tested by Manson, as his instructions to his inner circle became increasingly violent in nature It was also during this summer that Tex Watson stole $2,000 from drug dealer, Bernard Crowe, who in return threatened to retaliate. Manson ended the threats by shooting Crowe in the stomach. Manson thought he killed Crowe, but he survived and never reported the shooting to police.Paranoia Runs Deep:
After the shooting of Crowe, many of the closer Manson followers became paranoid that The Family's safety was in jeopardy. They armed themselves with guns and knives and kept a supply of ammunition around the ranch.He confided in them that he was Jesus and they were his chosen disciples. And many believed him. Gary Hinman - The First Known Murder:
Gary Hinman was a music teacher who was working on his Ph.D. in Sociology at UCLA. He met some of the Manson family members and allowed them to sometimes stay at his Topanga Canyon home. He was also an alleged manufacturer of synthetic mescaline. On July 25, 1969[QUOTE]Manson sent family members Mary Brunner, Susan Atkins and Bobby Beausoleil to get cash from Hinman. Hinman refused to turn over the money and Manson and Bruce Davis joined the other family members to convince him otherwise. An argument erupted between the two and Manson pulled out a sword and cut off Hinman's ear.
Afterwards, Manson and Davis left in one of Hinman's cars and the three left behind were instructed not to let Hinman go until he turned over the money. The group held Hinman for three days, finally stabbing him to death as he begged them to go away. The killing was said to be ordered by Manson.
Afterwards, to make the police believe it was the work of the Black Panthers, the group wrote the words "Political Piggy" in Hinman's blood next to a bloody paw print on the wall.
On August 6, 1969, Bobby Beausoleil was arrested for Hinman's murder after police stopped him while driving one of Hinman's cars. Some believe his arrest was the real motivation behind the killing spree that began a few days later. The plan was to murder wealthy white people and make it look like the murders were committed by blacks. This would confuse investigators and they would release Beausoleil from prison.
Others believe the murders began because it was time for the revolution to begin,,The beginning of Helter SkelterTate Murders
On the night of August 8, 1969, Charles "Tex" Watson, Susan Atkins, Patricia Krenwinkel, and Linda Kasabian were sent by Charlie to the old home of Terry Melcher at 10050 Cielo Drive. Their instructions were to kill everyone at the house and make it appear like Hinman's murder, with words and symbols written in blood on the walls. The four did as they were told and brutally killed Steven Parent, Jay Sebring, Wojciech Frykowski, Abigail Folger, Sharon Tate and Sharon Tate's unborn childLeno and Rosemary LaBianca:
The next day Manson, Tex Watson, Susan Atkins, Patricia Krenwinkel, Steve Grogan, Leslie Van Houten, and Linda Kasabian went to the home of Leno and Rosemary Labianca. Manson and Watson tied up the couple and Manson left. He told Van Houten and Krenwinkel to go in and kill the LaBiancas. The three separated the couple and murdered them, then had dinner and a shower and hitchhiked back to Spahn Ranch. Manson, Atkins, Grogan and Kasabian drove around looking for others to kill, but failed.Manson and The Family Arrested:
rumors of the group's involvement began to circulate. So did the police helicopters above the ranch, but because of unrelated investigation. Parts of stolen cars were spotted in and around the ranch by police in the helicopters. On August 16, 1969, Manson and the Family were rounded up by police and taken in on suspicion of auto theft (not an unfamiliar charge for Manson). The search warrant ended up being invalid because of a date error and the group was released.Donald "Shorty" Shea
Charlie blamed the arrests on Spahn's ranch hand Donald "Shorty" Shea for snitching on the family. It was no secret that Shorty wanted the family off the ranch. Manson decided it was time for the family to move to Barker Ranch near Death Valley, but before leaving, Manson, Bruce Davis, Tex Watson and Steve Grogan killed Shorty and buried his body behind the ranch.The Barker Ranch Raid:
On October 10, 1969 Barker Ranch was raided after investigators spotted stolen cars on the property and traced evidence of an arson back to Manson. Manson was not around during the first Family roundup, but returned on October 12 and was arrested with seven other family members. When police arrived Manson hid under a small bathroom cabinet, but was quickly discovered.The Confession of Susan Atkins:
One of the biggest breaks in the case came when Susan Atkins boasted in detail about the murders to her prison cell mates. She gave specific details about Manson and the killings. She also told of other famous people the Family planned on killing. Her cellmate reported the information to the authorities and Atkins was offered a life sentence in return for her testimony. She refused the offer, but repeated the prison cell story to the grand jury. Later Atkins recannted her grand jury testimony.The Grand Jury Indictment:
It took 20 minutes for the grand jury to hand down murder indictments on Manson, Watson, Krenwinkel, Atkins, Kasabian, and Van Houten. Watson was fighting extradition from Texas and Kasabian became the prosecutions main witness. Manson, Atkins, Krenwinkel and Van Houten were tried together. Chief prosecutor, Vincent Bugliosi, offered Kasabian prosecutorial immunity for her testimony. Kasabian agreed, giving Bugliosi the final piece of the puzzle needed to convict Manson and the others.Bugliosi's Challenge - Manson Never Murdered Anyone:
The challenge for Bugliosi was to get the jury to find Manson as responsible for the murders as those who actually committed the murders. Manson's courtroom antics helped Bugliosi accomplish this task. On the first day of court he showed up with a bloody swastika carved into his forehead. He tried starring down Bugliosi and with a series of hand gestures had the three women disrupt the courtroom, all in hopes of a mistrial. The Tate Murders:
On the night of August 8, 1969, Charles "Tex" Watson, Susan Atkins, Patricia Krenwinkel, and Linda Kasabian were sent by Charlie to the old home of Terry Melcher at 10050 Cielo Drive. Their instructions were to kill everyone at the house and make it appear like Hinman's murder, with words and symbols written in blood on the walls. The four did as they were told and brutally killed Steven Parent, Jay Sebring, Wojciech Frykowski, Abigail Folger, Sharon Tate and Sharon Tate's unborn child.Leno and Rosemary LaBianca:

The next day Manson, Tex Watson, Susan Atkins, Patricia Krenwinkel, Steve Grogan, Leslie Van Houten, and Linda Kasabian went to the home of Leno and Rosemary Labianca. Manson and Watson tied up the couple and Manson left. He told Van Houten and Krenwinkel to go in and kill the LaBiancas. The three separated the couple and murdered them, then had dinner and a shower and hitchhiked back to Spahn Ranch. Manson, Atkins, Grogan and Kasabian drove around looking for others to kill, but failed.Manson and The Family Arrested:

At Spahn Ranch rumors of the group's involvement began to circulate. So did the police helicopters above the ranch, but because of unrelated investigation. Parts of stolen cars were spotted in and around the ranch by police in the helicopters. On August 16, 1969, Manson and the Family were rounded up by police and taken in on suspicion of auto theft (not an unfamiliar charge for Manson). The search warrant ended up being invalid because of a date error and the group was released.Donald "Shorty" Shea :
Charlie blamed the arrests on Spahn's ranch hand Donald "Shorty" Shea for snitching on the family. It was no secret that Shorty wanted the family off the ranch. Manson decided it was time for the family to move to Barker Ranch near Death Valley, but before leaving, Manson, Bruce Davis, Tex Watson and Steve Grogan killed Shorty and buried his body behind the ranch.The Barker Ranch Raid:

The Family moved onto the Barker Ranch and spent time turning stolen cars into dune buggys. On October 10, 1969 Barker Ranch was raided after investigators spotted stolen cars on the property and traced evidence of an arson back to Manson. Manson was not around during the first Family roundup, but returned on October 12 and was arrested with seven other family members. When police arrived Manson hid under a small bathroom cabinet, but was quickly discovered.The Confession of Susan Atkins:
One of the biggest breaks in the case came when Susan Atkins boasted in detail about the murders to her prison cell mates. She gave specific details about Manson and the killings. She also told of other famous people the Family planned on killing. Her cellmate reported the information to the authorities and Atkins was offered a life sentence in return for her testimony. She refused the offer, but repeated the prison cell story to the grand jury. Later Atkins recannted her grand jury testimony.The Grand Jury Indictment:

It took 20 minutes for the grand jury to hand down murder indictments on Manson, Watson, Krenwinkel, Atkins, Kasabian, and Van Houten. Watson was fighting extradition from Texas and Kasabian became the prosecutions main witness. Manson, Atkins, Krenwinkel and Van Houten were tried together. Chief prosecutor, Vincent Bugliosi, offered Kasabian prosecutorial immunity for her testimony. Kasabian agreed, giving Bugliosi the final piece of the puzzle needed to convict Manson and the others.Bugliosi's Challenge - Manson Never Murdered Anyone:

The challenge for Bugliosi was to get the jury to find Manson as responsible for the murders as those who actually committed the murders. Manson's courtroom antics helped Bugliosi accomplish this task. On the first day of court he showed up with a bloody swastika carved into his forehead. He tried starring down Bugliosi and with a series of hand gestures had the three women disrupt the courtroom, all in hopes of a mistrial.Manson Is Found Guilty:
It was Kasabian's account of the murders and of the control that Manson had over the Family that nailed Bugliosi's case.On January 25, 1971 the jury returned a guilty verdict of all defendants and on all counts of first-degree murder. Manson, like the other three defendants, was sentenced to death in the gas chamber. Manson shouted, "You people have no authority over me," as he was led off in handcuffs.Manson's Prison Years:
Manson was originally sent to San Quentin State Prison, but was transferred to Vacaville then to Folsom and then back to San Quentin because of his constant conflicts with prison officials and other inmates. In 1989 he was sent to California's Corcoran State Prison where he currently resides. Because of various infractions in prison, Manson has spent a considerable amount of time under disciplinary custody (or as prisoners call it, "the hole"), where he was kept in isolation for 23 hours a day and kept handcuffed when moving within the general prison areas.When not in the hole he, is kept in the prison's Protective Housing Unit (PHU) because of threats made on his life. Since his incarceration he has been raped, set on fire, beaten several times and poisoned. While in PHU he is allowed to visit with other inmates, have books, art supplies and other restricted privileges.restricted privileges.

Over the years he has been charged with various crimes including conspiracy to distribute narcotics, destruction of state property, and assault of a prison guard.

He has been denied parole 10 times, the last time in 2001 when he refused to attend the hearing because he was forced to wear handcuffs.http://i26.tinypic.com/50i06v.jpg http://crime.about.com/od/murder/p/charliemanson.htm,,,manson family album theres 30 pics of them.

[FlamingFox]

Geeze. He looks just as creepy now as he did back then. You did a great job on this thread WW!:hello:

[Chaindrive]

Good research, whispers.

In his earlier pic his eyes are those of a zealot.

In the more recent pic his eyes are just tired.

[MichaelJCheaney]

I have a question:

How in the hell is anyone actually able to remember 1969?

I mean hell you read the history books and stuff and you would swear that EVERYBODY in America was stoned stupid....(Woodstock, The whole counter culture, hippie thing)

So I will ask again.....

How does anyone remember 1969?

[Chaindrive]

I remember 1969. I was 11.

But, then again, I wasn't stoned stupid.

I will admit that I never did drugs, though.

[Whisper]

I was 3 in 69 and strange as this sounds I have a memory of when I was 6 months old my bio dad stabbed me b/c my mom thew his case of beer off the 3rd floor balcony b/c he was supposed to bring milk home and bought beer.Anyways I have that memory BUT I think its more a memory of people talking about it over the yrs in whispers thinking I could hear them.Anything else that far back I can remember bits and pieces but nothing major.

[MichaelJCheaney]

Perhaps I should clarify my comments a little bit because it almost sounds like nobody is getting the fact that I was just trying to be a smart ass...

The ironic thing is that if you talk to anyone who is say mid to late 50's to about age 60 or above, they will tell you all about being at woodstock, being a part of the whole hippie movement and/or they hung out in San Fransisco....

And I am always amazed that:

A. They lived to tell about it. and

B. Remember it at all!

[Whisper]

LOL K but I am not even close to 50s and 60s and I remember the hippie movement. When I was 5 or 6 and I was heartbroken over the fact that we went to Pine Plaza in the Sault.There was a guy sitting there playing guitar and people were throwing money into his guitar case.So we tossed some money in and I remember asking my mom what he was doing.She said that he travelled all over and this was how he made money to eat and clean up etc,etc.I asked why we couldnt bring him home so he could eat and shower and he wouldnt have to worry about singing for money.And I was heart broken and hated my mom b/c she was trying to explain to me that was his lifestyle but I thought she was just being mean!! I cried for days,needless to say that was a look into my future of rescueing strays .And I remember going to concerts all over Ontario,Cat Stevens,3 Dog Night,The Highway Men(something like that) my mom was a hippie and we lived all over Ontario but I dont remember the Manson Family when it was happening now the Partridge Family lol I remember

[Dakota Valkyrie]

I remember 1969. Like CD, I wasn't stoned stupid. Don't ask me about 1979, though. By 1989, I was better at remembering things. Remembering things in 2009 is a whole different problem.

I read Helter Skelter when it came out. I know I've read a few other Manson books.

Even without the drugs, it is amazing the way he can sway some people. Glad none of them are on the parole board.

[MichaelJCheaney]

Remembering things in 2009 is a whole different problem

Hey wait, what are we talking about again????:pound:

[Whisper]

I actually just picked up Helter Skelter the other day to read.I remember my mom had it when I was a kid she read itTheres huge bookstore(house by me) called Juniper I think they are in states to but they have 35,000 in each place old,new,collexctables,trade them in etc,I found Sybil there,Helter Skelter etc.

[Thinkgoat]

Nice job in condensing the article, Whisper. That took A LOT of work. Thank you.

[Whisper]

TY that was the hardest part was condensing small snippets from each time frame.I didnt want to skip alot but didnt want to write a book either.I never realized he had a son ,named Charles Manson Jr.Committed suicide.I cant imagine what he went through with that name.

[runecire]

In August of 1969, I was visiting my friend, Terry Melcher. The drinks were good. Terry knew how to throw a party. That's the last I remember of the 60's.

My next memory is of being born again in 1971.

[Chaindrive]

In August of 1969, I was visiting my friend, Terry Melcher.

Whoa.

[Rockin Ma]

In August of 1969, I was visiting my friend, Terry Melcher. The drinks were good. Terry knew how to throw a party. That's the last I remember of the 60's.

My next memory is of being born again in 1971.



YouTube - Terry Melcher & Doris Day "These Days"

[Whisper]

Manson's lasting legacy: 'Live freaky, die freaky'
(CNN) --
Forty years ago, a group of young people led by a charismatic, 5-foot-2-inch ex-con named Charles Manson set out on a murderous spree in Los Angeles, California. They planned to spark an apocalyptic race war that Manson called "Helter Skelter," after a song by the Beatles.
Charles Manson's mug shot shows a beard gone gray. The swastika on his forehead is still visible.

Over two nights in August 1969, the killers took the lives of seven people, inflicting 169 stab wounds and seven .22-caliber gunshot wounds. They used the blood of their victims to scrawl anti-establishment messages on the walls: "Pig," "Death to Pigs," "Rise" and a misspelled "Healter Skelter."

"The murders were probably the most bizarre and far-out in the recorded annals of American time," said Vincent Bugliosi, who prosecuted Manson and members of his "Family" and later wrote the best-selling book "Helter Skelter." "People are fascinated by the strange and the bizarre."

Crimes linger in our memories when they are especially horrific or when they represent the era in which they occur. The Manson murders did both. And they grew to symbolize the dark side of the California dream, as well as the political, social and cultural turbulence of the 1960s. Listen to the music of the Manson murders »

Laurie Levenson, a professor at Loyola Law School who follows high-profile cases, described Manson as the worst of the worst, evil incarnate.

"If you're going to be evil, you have to be off-the-charts evil, and Charlie Manson was off-the-charts evil," said Levenson.

The Manson murders abruptly ended the "decade of love," and Southern California lost its sun-kissed, self-indulgent innocence. The crimes added a lasting mantra for the times, Los Angeles Times columnist Patt Morrison said: "Live freaky, die freaky."

"It was the dark side of paradise," Morrison said. "People could shake their fingers and say, 'This is where your high-living, rich, hippie, movie-star lifestyle gets you. This is where the drug culture gets you.' It's the boomerang effect, the wages of sin."

Actress Sharon Tate, 26, famed hairstylist Jay Sebring, 35, coffee fortune heiress Abigail Folger, 25, and two others died shortly after midnight August 9, 1969, at a rambling house overlooking Benedict Canyon.

Tate was married to director Roman Polanski and eight months pregnant. She begged in vain for her life, saying she wanted to live to have her baby, according to Bugliosi.

The next night, grocer Leno LaBianca, 44, and his wife, Rosemary, 38, were butchered in their home in the wealthy Los Feliz neighborhood. Rosemary LaBianca was stabbed 41 times. A fork jutted from Leno LaBianca's abdomen, where one of his killers had carved the word "war."

When arrests came and the identities of the killers became known, the case grew even more frightening, Bugliosi said.
Manson's aging 'Family' longs for freedom The suspects were hippies who lived in a commune at an old movie set in the San Fernando Valley called Spahn Ranch, where they dropped acid, engaged in orgies and went on nighttime break-ins, missions they called "creepy crawls."

"They could have been the kid next door," Bugliosi said. "Tex Watson was a straight-A student, a track star. Patricia Krenwinkel wanted to be a nun and sang in a church choir. Leslie Van Houten was homecoming princess at Monrovia High School."

They were in thrall of Manson, who told them he was Jesus Christ -- and the devil, rolled into one.

Manson's "Helter Skelter" race war and revolution never came. He and Susan Atkins, Watson, Krenwinkel and Van Houten are serving life terms for their roles in the murders. Atkins, who is said to be dying of brain cancer, has a parole hearing next month.

With their brew of violence, music and anti-establishment youth counterculture, the murders and ensuing trials established Manson as a perverse cultural icon that endures to this day. Along the way, the mastermind transcended his victims, and the Tate-LaBianca murders became known as the Manson murders.

Charlie Manson's image can still be found on posters and T-shirts. In 1998, the animated television series "South Park" featured Manson in a Christmas special. There have been books, a play, an opera and television movies about the case. There are even iPhone applications of Manson's famous quotes. Learn more about the music that was influenced by Manson »

"Manson is like a Rorschach test," said Robert Thompson, a Syracuse University professor who teaches popular culture. "How you interpret his place in popular culture depends on your own place in the culture."

Before the Manson murders, no one thought hippies were capable of violence. The Manson Family was "looking and living like typical hippies," Bugliosi said, "but they were mass murderers. That was their religion, their credo. They wanted to kill as many people as they could. That shocked the nation, and that hurt the countercultural movement."

Manson's musical roots partially explain his staying power. A folk singer, he wanted to break into the music industry and recorded some songs with one of the Beach Boys. Manson's own music has continued to influence other performers, like Guns N' Roses and Marilyn Manson.

Manson believed that the Beatles were speaking to him through the lyrics of the White Album, which was released in late 1968. The apocalyptic message, as Manson interpreted it: Blacks would "rise up" and overthrow the white establishment in a race war. Manson and his Family would be spared by hiding out in a "bottomless pit" near Death Valley until he could emerge to assume leadership of the post-revolutionary order.

Manson's crimes continue to evoke a strong reaction long after public obsession over other high-profile cases has faded. He was the bogeyman under the bed, the personification of evil, the freaky one-man horror show. For years, when prison officials still allowed it, he gave television interviews, never failing to shock. The interviews kept memories of him fresh long after he was locked up.

"You got a pistol on you?" he asked Tom Snyder during a televised 1981 prison interview. "Well, I just thought you might not like what I have done and want to do something about it."

Seven years later, he was far more volatile during a televised conversation with Geraldo Rivera: "I'm gonna kill you, as many as I can. I'm gonna pile you up to the sky, I figure about 50 million ..."

What sets Manson apart from other infamous killers is that he never killed anyone himself, Levenson said. Instead, he convinced others, mostly women, to kill for him. His powers of persuasion didn't stop there.

During his 1970 trial, Manson carved an X in his forehead, saying, "I have Xed myself from your world." His codefendants and sidewalk followers soon did the same. When Manson was convicted, he and his codefendants shaved their heads.


"It's mind warp. That was really scary," Levenson said. "It wasn't just that people were spouting beliefs for him; they were cutting crosses in their heads.

"I think Manson will haunt us forever." http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/08/10/california.manson.murders/index.htmlhttp://i31.tinypic.com/o5b7ud.jpghttp://i30.tinypic.com/tairdx.jpg Susan Atkins and Tex Watsons New Mug Shots

[jus shaking my head]

I have a question:

How in the hell is anyone actually able to remember 1969?

I mean hell you read the history books and stuff and you would swear that EVERYBODY in America was stoned stupid....(Woodstock, The whole counter culture, hippie thing)

So I will ask again.....

How does anyone remember 1969?

I do. I was 20 when Manson's people did the killing.

I may have been a hippie but was one who didn't do drugs. I was married, had two children, and in college. No time for drugs, too busy. I did however believe in the end of the Nam war.

This man was a sociopath, not crazy. The ones who followed him were for the most part runaways, petty criminals, drug users, and very disturbed teens or young adults.

Most had no family or family who did not care about them. Manson offered them a sense of family and a sense of belonging which most had not experienced.

[Dakota Valkyrie]

Manson Follower Susan Atkins Dies at 61
Susan Atkins, a follower of cult leader Charles Manson whose remorseless confession to killing pregnant actress Sharon Tate in 1969 shocked the world, has died. She was 61 and had been suffering from brain cancer.

Ms. Atkins' death comes less than a month after a parole board turned down the terminally ill woman's last chance at freedom on Sept. 2. She was brought to the hearing on a gurney and slept through most of it.

California Department of Corrections spokeswoman Terry Thornton said that Ms. Atkins died late Thursday night. She had been diagnosed with brain cancer in 2008, had a leg amputated and was given only a few months to live.

She underwent brain surgery, and in her last months was paralyzed and had difficulty speaking. But Ms. Atkins managed to speak briefly at the Sept. 2 hearing, reciting religious verse with the help of her husband, attorney James Whitehouse.

She had been transferred to a skilled nursing facility at the California Central Women's Facility at Chowchilla exactly one year before she died.
[...]

Ms. Atkins married twice while in prison. Her first husband, Donald Lee Laisure, purported to be an eccentric Texas millionaire. They quickly divorced. Mr. Whitehouse, her second husband, is a Harvard Law School graduate and had recently served as one of her attorneys.http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125387364813140629.html

[SickenEd]

I'm glad she's dead, and I'm glad she suffered. I'm also glad she never got paroled. :)

[malq]

The taxpayers are finally free. I wished her death had been a little more painful.

Interesting facts.

“The additional cost of confining an inmate to death row, as compared to the maximum security prisons where those sentenced to life without possibility of parole ordinarily serve their sentences, is $90,000 per year per inmate. With California’s current death row population of 670, that accounts for $63.3 million annually.”

Using conservative rough projections, the Commission estimates the annual costs of the present (death penalty) system to be $137 million per year.

The cost of the present system with reforms recommended by the Commission to ensure a fair process would be $232.7 million per year.

The cost of a system in which the number of death-eligible crimes was significantly narrowed would be $130 million per year.

The cost of a system which imposes a maximum penalty of lifetime incarceration instead of the death penalty would be $11.5 million per year.
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs-death-penalty

[carolinablue]

good. what is the sense of a sentence of life without parole if we parole them? if they experience a moral reawakening and change from the inside out..great! wonderful! if they then turn, without fanfare, to helping other inmates...terrific! i'm truly glad they changed. but keep them in prison and let them do their good works there. they can get out of prison when their victims get out of the grave. i wish people would look at Angola here in La.; it's a working prison farm and supports several profitable (to the state) enterprises. Angola produces the food used in state hospitals and institutions, select trusties from the lifer pop train and care for K9 dogs, and are excellent at it. the Angola prison rodeo brings in people from several states. the athletic fields are staffed and maintained by trusties and rented out to baseball tourneys. sorry, didn't mean to make such a long post.

[Valasca]

I AM surprised no one has posted this yet.


California's parole board Tuesday refused to release onetime Manson family acolyte Leslie Van Houten, finding the 60-year-old remains dangerous more than four decades after the group's Southern California murder spree.

The board found that Van Houten "still poses a risk to society," spokesman Luis Patino said. The decision marks the 19th time that she has been denied parole, and she won't be eligible again until 2013, Patino said.

Known as "Lulu" while one of notorious spree killer Charles Manson's followers, Van Houten helped hold down Rosemary LaBianca while other Manson family members stabbed her and her husband, Leno LaBianca in 1969. She was 19 at the time.

She has been imprisoned at the California Institution for Women at Frontera for more than three decades, following her final conviction on first-degree murder charges in 1978 and a sentence of life in prison.

Prison spokesman Lt. Robert Patterson told CNN in 2009 that Van Houten is a model inmate involved in prison programs and a mentor to other inmates in the facility's college program. And lawyer Brandie Devall, who has been representing Van Houten for just under a year, said Tuesday before the hearing that the "fact that Leslie has had good reports since 1978" should help persuade the parole board to release her.

Van Houten, Manson, Pat Krenwinkel and Susan Atkins were found guilty of murder and conspiracy to commit murder and sentenced to death in 1971. Their sentences were commuted to life in prison after the U.S. Supreme Court struck down death penalty laws in 1972 and established a four-year moratorium on executions.

Van Houten's original conviction was overturned in 1976 on grounds that a judge erred in not granting a mistrial after her attorney, Ronald Hughes, disappeared and later was found dead. The jury deadlocked in her first retrial, and she was released on bond for a few months. But in her third trial, in 1978, she was convicted of first-degree murder.

Ahead of Tuesday's parole board hearing, Devall said she was "excited" about the appearance. She planned to bolster her argument with rulings in two cases from the California Supreme Court since Van Houten's last parole hearing, in 2007. Each case was recently upheld by federal courts.

Devall said during Tuesday's hearing, she planned to cite the case of Sandra Lawrence, a convicted murderer who was released in 2007 after more than 20 years in prison. The California Supreme Court decided that if an eligible parolee has spent enough time on rehabilitation and reform, the panel has the burden of proving that the inmate poses a current threat to public safety and should not base its decision on what happened decades earlier.

In addition, Devall planned to use the case of Richard Shaputis, who was sentenced to 15 years to life following his 1987 conviction for second-degree murder -- and remains behind bars. Devall says in that case, the court found that parole boards should give significant consideration to psychologists' reports regarding whether inmates have demonstrated acceptance of responsibility, insight and understanding of their crimes, as Van Houten has.

Van Houten told CNN's "Larry King Live" in 2002 that she herself stabbed Rosemary LaBianca 16 times.

"The autopsy reports have shown that it was Tex [Charles "Tex" Watson] that wielded the fatal wounds, but I contributed, and I attempted to hold her down for Pat," she said. "I called to Tex because we couldn't kill her. You know, it's -- morally, I feel as though I did."

And during a 1994 CNN appearance, Van Houten told King the Manson family's lifestyle attracted her.

"I met these people. They said that they came from a commune in L.A. where they lived for the day and for the moment, and it was a lot of the [Timothy] Leary kind of philosophy of 'Be here now.'"

Van Houten called Manson "an opportunist of the cruelest, most vicious kind," but she was quick to emphasize that she accepts blame for her role in the crimes.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/07/06/manson.family.parole/index.html?hpt=T1

[AngelFire]

Good, I don't give a damn she is 60. Her victims never got to see their next birthdays. Boofuckingwho

[akika666]

i can see denying the parole because she viciously stabbed someone to death a long time ago - the punishment was meant to be severe. but i don't see how they can justify denying it because "she remains a danger," in those words.

[Dark Star]

IMO she's done her time for the fucking crime.

[Rawrehz]

YouTube- Charles Manson's Epic Answer



She has to be better off than ^^
*giggle*

[malq]

IMO she's done her time for the fucking crime.

Sorry
IMO she was sentenced to death and got out of that. California put a moratorium on the gas chamber. Fucking lucky if you ask me. She should be dead.
She will never serve her time in 100,000 years. She waived that right when she did what she did and got the death sentence. If she gets parole, then you might as well let them ALL go free.

Plus Susan Atkins had brain cancer, they didn't cut her any slack.
Lastly if a sentence of death ends up in a person going free, what good is a sentence? Its manipulatable(sp) as it is.

[brokenandtwisted]

Lucky is a poor word to use, malq. The rest of a life in prison instead of a swift death...is much, much worse. I would rather face lethal injection than life imprisonment.

She's done her time, and then some. Keeping people in the prison system longer than necessary is another reason why said system is faulty.

[PervHATER]

:argh::argh::argh::argh::argh:He gets to stay locked up but lets let lose all the pedis

[62julietandvoid]

I have no pity for her. None.

[akika666]

Lucky is a poor word to use, malq. The rest of a life in prison instead of a swift death...is much, much worse. I would rather face lethal injection than life imprisonment.

She's done her time, and then some. Keeping people in the prison system longer than necessary is another reason why said system is faulty.

yeah but she wasn't sentenced to lethal injection. when she was sentenced, if i remember correctly, it was the gas chamber...

i think i'd choose life imprisonment over the gas chamber.

[AngelFire]

Sorry
IMO she was sentenced to death and got out of that. California put a moratorium on the gas chamber. Fucking lucky if you ask me. She should be dead.
She will never serve her time in 100,000 years. She waived that right when she did what she did and got the death sentence. If she gets parole, then you might as well let them ALL go free.

Plus Susan Atkins had brain cancer, they didn't cut her any slack.
Lastly if a sentence of death ends up in a person going free, what good is a sentence? Its manipulatable(sp) as it is.

I totally agree with you. She needs to stay where she is, in prison. What Manson and his followers did to the victims was beyond gruesome. I hope they never get to see the outside of a prison.

[drkeegee]

There'd be a political price to pay for anyone who dares parole any of Manson's followers (although I believe squeaky may have been)

They could just say "what she did was so heinous she deserves no mercy whatsoever" but....


...finding the 60-year-old remains dangerous...

is not very credible

[brokenandtwisted]

yeah but she wasn't sentenced to lethal injection. when she was sentenced, if i remember correctly, it was the gas chamber...

i think i'd choose life imprisonment over the gas chamber.

Why? You're unconscious before the gases even kill you if you rapidly inhale before the gases hit your nervous system through gas exchange.

Actually, I'd rather take the gas chamber over lethal injection. At least then I have control over how fast I die.

[akika666]

Why? You're unconscious before the gases even kill you if you rapidly inhale before the gases hit your nervous system through gas exchange.

Actually, I'd rather take the gas chamber over lethal injection. At least then I have control over how fast I die.

i guess we have different "killme" styles, lol. the thought of breathing a poison is utterly terrifying to me but having them put in by iv is not panic-inducing

[Angelinfl]

Whether or not she would be parolled.. She would still be on the public dime especially in this economy and may be driven to crime to survive and have 3 hots and a cot. Who would hire her to do what with her record and her age???? Nobody.. she is a misfit of society. If she can do something positive in jail than that's is where the best place for her is because with so many people out of work and her 60 year old age and 40 years of incarceration what makes you think she is capable of being a productive, self-supporting member of society. Also there is the Son of Sam law she couldn't go around lecturing or writing a book etc about her crime and making money on it..... so in jail she stays.

[Dakota Valkyrie]

[/B]Can you imagine getting a text from Charlie???

Charles Manson, who is serving a life sentence for his conspiracy role in the killing of seven people in the Tate-LaBianca murders in Los Angeles, 1969, has been handed down an extra 30 days on his life term after being found in possession of a contraband cellphone within jail premises.

Manson, the man behind the ritualistic murders of pregnant actress Sharon Tate and six others in 1969, had 30 days added to his life sentence after he was caught with an LG flip phone under his prison mattress, according to Los Angeles Times.

According to Terry Thornton, a spokeswoman for the California Department of Corrections, Manson had made calls and sent text messages to people in California, New Jersey, Florida and British Columbia.

Thornton said it was "troubling that he (Manson) had a cellphone since he's a person who got other people to murder on his behalf."

However, prison officials did not release the identities of the people Manson had contacted.
[...]

Though prison officials are against usage of cellphones in prisons as inmates are known to use cellphones for all manner of criminal activity, including running drug rings from behind bars, intimidating witnesses and planning escapes, the plea of prison administrators to jam cellphone signals on prison grounds have been ignored so far by the Federal Communications Commission, which regulates the nation's airwaves.

The politically powerful telecommunications industry lobby has also argued that jamming is not a precise solution because legitimate customers trying to use their phones near prisons could also be denied service.

The lobby has suggested a better, albeit more expensive solution, called "managed access" that would allow only calls from approved phones to transmit through towers near prisons.

The system has been successfully tested in Mississippi and prison officials in California are expected to do a pilot run next year.
[...]

As for Manson, 76, the 30-days sentencing means little. Manson, who is incarcerated in a maximum security prison in California, is technically eligible for parole but was denied parole for the eleventh time in 2007. His next parole hearing is scheduled for 2012 but has almost no hope of ever being released.http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/92897/20101216/helter-skelter-murderer-charles-manson-gets-30-days-added-to-life-sentence-for-possessing-cellphone-.htm

[Whisper]

[/B]Can you imagine getting a text from Charlie???
http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/92897/20101216/helter-skelter-murderer-charles-manson-gets-30-days-added-to-life-sentence-for-possessing-cellphone-.htm

I saw this on the news the other day and laughed my ass off
I dont remember when all the Manson stuff happened but it amazes how people are stiill so fascinated that when something happens they still broadcast it
Hes almost 80 and still has a cult like following

[walkingeagle]

When someone like CM talks, let's hope everyone but his followers are listening!!! I read a lot of true crime now but Helter Skelter was the very first. Read it back in high school. Then the movie/docudrama came out. I've seen it a few times. I think the curiousity and/or fascination from many people is trying to figure out why anyone would follow these people.

Like whisper, I was only 3 at that time, and that was one of the major discussions I can recall from that time. Another I recall is talk about living next door to a very famous bikers aunt.

[SnowChicken]

When someone like CM talks, let's hope everyone but his followers are listening!!! I read a lot of true crime now but Helter Skelter was the very first. Read it back in high school. Then the movie/docudrama came out. I've seen it a few times. I think the curiousity and/or fascination from many people is trying to figure out why anyone would follow these people.

Like whisper, I was only 3 at that time, and that was one of the major discussions I can recall from that time. Another I recall is talk about living next door to a very famous bikers aunt.

I was not born when Manson killed people. I know of Manson because I read about him as a kid. That guy is really nuts! It is horrifying that he got people to kill for him.

[walkingeagle]

Make no mistake! Charlie is no nut. He is a MONSTER of the most sadistic and evil nature! You did not have to be around in his time to see that.

[SnowChicken]

Make no mistake! Charlie is no nut. He is a MONSTER of the most sadistic and evil nature! You did not have to be around in his time to see that.

Indeed, Manson is evil. He is ranks right up there with the likes of Adolf Hitler, Osama bin Laden, and Ted bundy. I saw him interviewed and he gave me the creeps. I sense a lot of evil in him.

[walkingeagle]

Just my impression here, but you seem to have good instincts! Great for you! They will rarely fail you in life!

[SnowChicken]

Just my impression here, but you seem to have good instincts! Great for you! They will rarely fail you in life!

Exactly. When I saw Manson, I wanted to smack him hard. He is such an arrogant prick. What is with these evil people. They think they are above everything.

[walkingeagle]

Exactly. When I saw Manson, I wanted to smack him hard. He is such an arrogant prick. What is with these evil people. They think they are above everything. Unless I miss my guess, the things you point out are a curiousity to others. The reasons may differ, but I'd like to think that people want to understand how these people gain control in this manner. I know that's why I read about them. But then the other group reading this stuff like to think they are cold-blooded, morbid or whatever.

[SnowChicken]

Unless I miss my guess, the things you point out are a curiousity to others. The reasons may differ, but I'd like to think that people want to understand how these people gain control in this manner. I know that's why I read about them. But then the other group reading this stuff like to think they are cold-blooded, morbid or whatever.

Despite all the reading, I am still baffled and in some ways more horrified. Charles Manson reminds me of Jim Jones, Adolf Hitler, Fred Phelps, Osama bin Laden, and Lori Drew in terms of mentality. All of them are paranoid and feel the world did something wrong to them. They feel the world owes them something. Jones was not a hatemonger unlike Manson, Hitler, Phelps, and Bin Laden. Drew is constantly fearing rejection and needs to be in every organization and party.

[TKaz]

Perhaps I should clarify my comments a little bit because it almost sounds like nobody is getting the fact that I was just trying to be a smart ass...

The ironic thing is that if you talk to anyone who is say mid to late 50's to about age 60 or above, they will tell you all about being at woodstock, being a part of the whole hippie movement and/or they hung out in San Fransisco....

And I am always amazed that:

A. They lived to tell about it. and

B. Remember it at all!

Ok, so I was negative 7 yrs old in 1969...I think my mother was 12. BUT....in modern american history in high school we had an entire year designated to the 60's. From Kennedy through the end of Vietnam basically. It was my MOST FAVORITE history lesson(s) ever! Our teacher even gave us extra credit for 1960's mix tapes (haha, for his own enjoyment of course!).
I think whether people were stoned or sober that was something to learn about the era. Hell, Timothy Leary was a test subject!!
That class was 18 yrs ago & I remember him explaining the fork in LaBianca sticking out........the 60's STUCK in my head even if I wasn't there.

[TKaz]

Charles Manson reminds me of Jim Jones, Adolf Hitler, Fred Phelps, Osama bin Laden, and Lori Drew in terms of mentality..

It think that's why we find them all so fascinating.....Crazy intrigues the masses. ;)

[SnowChicken]

It think that's why we find them all so fascinating.....Crazy intrigues the masses. ;)

I am always interested about these psychopaths.

[Dakota Valkyrie]

Despite all the reading, I am still baffled and in some ways more horrified.
That's the whole point of the Dreamin' Demon! ;)

[SnowChicken]

That's the whole point of the Dreamin' Demon! ;)

And that's why I come here! :biggrin:

[Dakota Valkyrie]

http://i0.simplest-image-hosting.net/168bf183b2abe8bc9188aacc163dd507/-dd-371.jpg http://i0.simplest-image-hosting.net/168bf183b2abe8bc9188aacc163dd507/-dd-2258.jpg http://i0.simplest-image-hosting.net/168bf183b2abe8bc9188aacc163dd507/-dd-11016.jpg
California parole board officials denied parole Thursday to Patricia Krenwinkel, one of two surviving female followers of Charles Manson, saying the seven deaths in the infamous 1969 Tate-LaBianca murders still "remain relevant."

"This is a crime children grow up hearing about," said parole commissioner Susan Melanson. She said they received 80 letters from around the world pressing for Krenwinkel to remain imprisoned. "These crimes remain relevant," said Melanson.

Krenwinkel admitted during her trial that she chased down and stabbed heiress Abigail Folger at the Tate home on Aug. 9, 1969 and participated in the stabbing deaths of Leno and Rosemary LaBianca the following night.
[...]

A grey-haired Krenwinkel, now 63, wept and apologized after Melanson and Deputy Commissioner Steven Hernandez issued their decision.

"I'm just haunted each and every day by the unending suffering of the victims, the enormity and degree of suffering I've caused," she said.

In her 40 years at the California Institution for Women, Krenwinkel has earned a bachelor's degree and participated in numerous self help programs as well as teaching illiterate prisoners how to read. In recent years, she has been involved in a program to train service dogs for the disabled.

Krenwinkel, who has had a discipline-free record in prison, said that she is rehabilitated, but that claim was met with ire and opposition from prosecutors and families of the victims.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20029164-504083.html

The parole hearing was held at the women's state prison in Corona, where Krenwinkel is serving a life sentence. It was Krenwinkel's 13th appearance before the Board of Parole Hearings.

She will be up for her next parole review in seven years, according to the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation.http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/01/manson-follower-patricia-krenwinkel-denied-parole.html

[Dakota Valkyrie]

Which one of you has been texting Charlie AGAIN??


For the second time in less than two years, California prison officials caught Charles Manson, mastermind of one of the most notorious killing sprees in U.S. history, with a cell phone behind bars.

Guards at Corcoran State Prison found the phone on Jan. 6, according to prison spokeswoman Terry Thornton. Manson was charged with violating prison rules, but not with a crime, because there is no law in California that prohibits inmates from possessing phones. Thornton declined to provide any details about where Manson got the phone, or who he called, saying the case is still under investigation.

Manson called people in California, New Jersey and Florida with an LG flip phone found under his prison bunk in March 2009, Thornton said.

Thirty days were added to his sentence for the first offense, officials said.http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2011/02/02/20110202charles-manson-found-with-cell-phone-again.html

30 days were added to his sentence? So if he makes parole (ever), would he have to sit an extra 30 days before they toss him to the masses?

[carolinablue]

I was on my way to Colorado when Manson et al were arrested, I watched this play out on tv for what seemed like years. He gave me the creeps and those girls looked like stoned robots, which I guess they were.

[Dakota Valkyrie]

http://i0.simplest-image-hosting.net/picture/20120406-02.jpg (http://simplest-image-hosting.net/jpg-0-20120406-02)
http://i0.simplest-image-hosting.net/picture/20120406-01.jpg (http://simplest-image-hosting.net/jpg-0-20120406-01)

After 11 failed bids for freedom, notorious serial killer Charles Manson, now 77, is up for parole later this month.

The parole board rejected his bid in 2007, saying Manson "continues to pose an unreasonable danger to others and may still bring harm to anyone he would come in contact with."

Manson refused to participate in that hearing, describing himself as a "prisoner of the political system." He also declined to participate in any psychological evaluations in 2007.
[...]

A new photo released by state prison system shows Manson with long, gray hair and a beard. It was released at the request of CNN in advance of next Wednesday's parole hearing.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2012/04/05/BAJP1NVEJR.DTL


At the request of CNN, the department provided two photographs of Manson taken in June at the state prison in Corcoran, California. They show Manson, 77, with long, flowing gray hair, long beard and mustache.

Photos are taken of prisoners when they are transferred to other prisons or medical facilities or, in the case of Manson, when an inmate's appearance changes.http://articles.cnn.com/2012-04-04/justice/justice_california-charles-manson_1_charles-manson-terry-thornton-sharon-tate?_s=PM:JUSTICE

[Robynne]

http://i0.simplest-image-hosting.net/picture/20120406-02.jpg (http://simplest-image-hosting.net/jpg-0-20120406-02)
http://i0.simplest-image-hosting.net/picture/20120406-01.jpg (http://simplest-image-hosting.net/jpg-0-20120406-01)
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2012/04/05/BAJP1NVEJR.DTL

http://articles.cnn.com/2012-04-04/justice/justice_california-charles-manson_1_charles-manson-terry-thornton-sharon-tate?_s=PM:JUSTICE

What's the point, they are not going to let him out

[Whisper]

New Prison Photo Of Charles Manson At 77yo

http://i44.tinypic.com/289fpjn.jpg

LOS ANGELES - It is a mug shot for the ages.

Charles Manson, the most notorious mass murderer imprisoned in California and perhaps the nation, stares glumly at a camera, holding his booking number in front of him.

In the latest photo released by the California Department of Corrections, the 77-year-old Manson is gray-haired and gray-bearded, a shadow of the shaggy haired, wild-eyed killer whose visage glared from the covers of magazines in 1969.

He was a cult leader back then, the domineering force behind a rag-tag family of followers who said they killed for him.

Next Wednesday, Manson faces his 12th parole hearing. It could be his last because state law now allows a denial of parole for up to 15 years.

The chances

In this photo taken June 16, 2011, and provided by the California Department of Corrections, Charles Manson is seen in Corcoran, Calif. Manson is scheduled to have a parole hearing at Corcoran State Prison on Wednesday, April 11, 2012. (AP Photo/California Department of Corrections) that he will be released are nil and he has told his jailers that he doesn't plan to attend the hearing. But California Department of Corrections spokeswoman Terry Thornton said he could change his mind at the last minute.
Manson has not attended a parole hearing since 1997, when he rambled on for hours, denying that he had killed anyone and espousing the beliefs that guided his cult.

"I'm not saying that I wasn't involved. I'm saying that I did not break man's law nor did I break God's law. Consider that in the judgments that you have for yourselves. Good day. Thank you," he told the parole board.

Now, 43 years after the world learned his name, Manson is an old man living among a few other notorious killers whose lives would be in
jeopardy if released into the general population at Corcoran State Prison, Thornton said. They are in a protective housing unit and can go outside into a yard.
Even now, Manson is a problem prisoner, having racked up rules violations for receiving smuggled cell phones and for having a homemade weapon in his cell last October.

One thing about Manson has not changed. The swastika he carved in his forehead during his trial is a dark reminder of his past.

Manson was found guilty in seven murders, including the killing of actress Sharon Tate, that stunned the world. Later, he was convicted in two other killings. His trial with three women acolytes was a spectacle that drew international attention.

Manson was depicted as the evil master of murder, commanding a small army of young followers. He and the three women were sentenced to death.http://www.twincities.com/ci_20337041/new-california-prison-photo-shows-charles-manson-at?source=most_viewed

[malq]

What's the point, they are not going to let him out

Charlie does not want out. He is too intitutionalized to leave prison. Society scares him and he has no idea how to handle it if he were magically released. Coming from a society that is driven by a pecking order, to one which is driven by finance and success is so foreign to these guys. Most, if released, do something to get back in. He is very comfortable where he is at.

[Dakota Valkyrie]

Notorious killer Charles Manson, 77, was denied parole Wednesday after a California parole panel "could find nothing good as far as suitability" for his being paroled, a commissioner said.

Manson didn't show up for his parole hearing, which was held at a state prison in Corcoran, California, where he is serving a life sentence.

Manson's next parole hearing was scheduled for 15 years from now, meaning he could die in prison.

California Board of Parole Hearings Commissioner John Peck said that Manson has accumulated 108 serious disciplinary violations in prison since 1971 and that he has shown no indication of remorse for his nine murder convictions.

Manson hasn't participated in any self-help programs or vocational training, Peck said. Manson also hasn't shown any parole plans, he said.

Peck also cited Manson's statement to a psychologist in a prison interview on November 2, 2011, in which Manson stated:

"I am special. I am not like the average inmate. I have put five people in the grave. I've been in prison most of my life. I'm a very dangerous man," Manson told the psychologist, according to a report read aloud by Peck during the hearing.

Those statements marked a change from Manson's past denials of having murdered nine people in 1969, and the statements showed some insight into his crimes, Peck said, reading from the report.

But two-member parole panel still found the statements troubling, denying him parole and scheduling his next hearing for 15 years from now, the maximum allowed under law, Peck said.

That would put Manson at age 92 for his next hearing, unless he petitions the board for an earlier hearing.

Los Angeles County Deputy District Attorney Patrick Sequeira, who opposed Manson's parole at the hearing, said Manson is likely to die in prison. Sequeira said he didn't know which "five people" Manson was referring to in his statement to the psychologist.

"When you think a person will be 92 years old, it's very likely that there will be no further parole hearings for Mr. Manson," Sequeira told reporters after the 80-minute hearing concluded.

"He does not deserve to be returned to society," the prosecutor added. "He has a history of refusing to cooperate, not only with psychologists for evaluations, but also for treatment."

DeJon R. Lewis, Manson's state-appointed attorney, who has never met his client, said he didn't know why Manson didn't show up for the hearing. Manson hasn't appeared at any of his parole hearings during the past 15 years.

Manson didn't come out of his cell to participate in an interview with Lewis a month ago, Lewis told the parole panel.

"Quite frankly, I don't think he could have helped himself today by speaking on the record," Lewis told reporters after the hearing.

Manson now has been denied parole 12 times, authorities said.
[...]

Debra Tate, the sister of Sharon Tate, who attended Wednesday's hearing, told the parole panel that she believed Manson declined to attend the proceeding because he didn't want to hear her or any other victim's impact statement.

"He clearly does not want to be released into the public," Tate told the parole board.

After Manson was denied parole, with his next hearing scheduled for 2027, Tate was "elated," she told reporters. She has been attending Manson's parole hearings for the past 15 years.

"I was very pleased that we will never hear from Charlie Manson again," Tate told reporters. "I don't have to see him again. For this one, it's over."

Last October, Manson was found to be in possession of an inmate-manufactured weapon and he is now being held for 15 months in isolation in a secured housing unit in the California State Prison Corcoran, said Commissioner Gilbert Robles, the other member of the two-person parole panel.

In another incident, Manson was also found to be in a possession of a cell phone, another prison violation, the panel said.

Of the 108 serious discipline violations committed by Manson in prison, 35 of them were violent, Sequeira said.

Seven of the serious disciplinary violations occurred since Manson's previous parole hearing in 2007, the prosecutor said.

Manson has a history of manipulative and controlling behavior and has a record of mental health issues, including schizophrenia and a paranoid delusional disorder, Robles said.
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/04/11/justice/california-charles-manson/

[princessgrandma]

Yeah, he's pretty special, all right. A special kind of whackjob. malq is right. He doesn't want out. He's said that prison is his home. Charles Manson is uneducated, not stupid. The moment he steps one foot outside of prison, the clock will start ticking. It will only be a matter of a short while before someone either kills him or makes an attempt to.

This is history in the making. This was most likely his last parole opportunity. I don't know why parole was ever even in the picture, possibility or not. It never should have been. Someone as special as ol' Charlie there would never survive in the real world, but then, I don't think "real" is anywhere near in his vocabulary, like "reality," for instance. He's lived in his own little world for most of those 77 years and is his own special brand of psycho, a poisonous flower child.

[malq]

Yeah, he's pretty special, all right. A special kind of whackjob. malq is right. He doesn't want out. He's said that prison is his home. Charles Manson is uneducated, not stupid. The moment he steps one foot outside of prison, the clock will start ticking. It will only be a matter of a short while before someone either kills him or makes an attempt to.

This is history in the making. This was most likely his last parole opportunity. I don't know why parole was ever even in the picture, possibility or not. It never should have been. Someone as special as ol' Charlie there would never survive in the real world, but then, I don't think "real" is anywhere near in his vocabulary, like "reality," for instance. He's lived in his own little world for most of those 77 years and is his own special brand of psycho, a poisonous flower child.

The one thing Charlie said and I agree upon to a point, is he likes babies and children because they have not been contaminated by societies values and preconceived ideas.
It's an interesting thought.

here is a direct quote from him on the subject to ponder

“A baby is born into this world in a state of fear. Total paranoia and awareness. He sees the world with eyes not used yet. As he grows up, his parents lay all this stuff on him. They tell him, when they should be letting him tell them. Let the children lead you.”

[princessgrandma]

The one thing Charlie said and I agree upon to a point, is he likes babies and children because they have not been contaminated by societies values and preconceived ideas.
It's an interesting thought.

Who knows, malq? We might have saved the children of the world from a potential child molester or something like that by keeping him confined all this time. I could sooo see him adding it to his lengthy resume of crime.

[Whisper]

Women Linked by Manson Murders Form Odd Friendship

On August 9, 1969, two naive 17-year-old girls were launched on a path that led to the unlikeliest of friendships.

That infamous night, four young people under the sway of a charismatic career criminal slipped into a neighborhood of Hollywood glitterati, then bludgeoned and stabbed rising young actress Sharon Tate, coffee heiress Abigail Folger and two others. Across town the next night, the band killed again.

The name Charles Manson quickly became a synonym for unimaginable evil, which nobody knows better than Debra Tate, Sharon's little sister, and Barbara Hoyt, the Manson family member whose testimony helped put the killers in prison.

"We've got a lot in common," said Hoyt, now a retired nurse. "She has been a big help to me."

"She makes sure I am holding my head up high," Tate said, "and I do the same for her."

Now both about 60, a Manson family member and the last living Tate family member have bonded in their long quest to keep those responsible behind bars. Both have testified repeatedly at Manson's parole hearings. Both say they still get threats from the cult killer's supporters — mostly white supremacists enamored with murders Manson orchestrated to incite a race war dubbed "Helter Skelter."

Even now not a day passes without Hoyt dwelling on the suffering Manson and her former comrades inflicted and on the widespread terror that ensued.


"We are completely linked by this event whether we want to be or not," she said of Debra Tate, who now runs a crime victims group. "She understands me, and I understand where she's coming from."

Hoyt never committed a crime for Manson, and her testimony helped send the cult leader and four followers to death row in 1971. The following year, when the California Supreme Court ruled the death penalty unconstitutional, their new life terms made them eligible for a while for annual parole consideration.

That is when the lives of Barbara Hoyt and Debra Tate began to intertwine. Over the decades, each as written letters to parole panels urging that the killers never be released, and each has traveled to obscure California farming towns for parole hearings in prisons housing some of the state's most notorious convicts.

At first Hoyt testified partly out of fear that the killers would seek revenge if released. But after becoming a registered nurse, she realized that the psychological and emotional pain of having to relive her involvement with the cult was another part of her payback to society.

"It's a descent into hell and then having to climb back out again," Hoyt said. "I think about it and I feel I was simply there to be a witness, because that has been my role. God gave me that role, and that's my reality."

Meanwhile Tate's late mother, Doris, had become the driving force for victims' rights in California and was instrumental in a 1982 law that allows family members to testify about their losses at trials and parole hearings.

When Doris died, that left her daughters Debra and Patti to carry on with her work. Patti died of breast cancer in 2000, leaving Debra, disabled from a postal service accident, to go it alone.

"Over time our mutual efforts brought us together," Hoyt said.

Now they talk regularly on the phone and get together when they're in the same town, usually for a parole hearing. Tate lives in the Southern California desert, and Hoyt in the Pacific Northwest, the specific location wants to keep secret.
[....]
more at linkhttp://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/women-linked-manson-murders-form-odd-friendship-16144470

[Whisper]

bankruptcy court judge has agreed to turn over audio tapes of conversations between Manson Family member Charles 'Tex' Watson and his former attorney to the Los Angeles Police Department. The tape recordings are part of the estate of deceased attorney Bill Boyd whose law firm is in Chapter 7 bankruptcy proceedings.
[...]
Homicide detective Dan Jenks and Lt. Yana Horvatich requested the tapes from Boyd's former law firm. The firm asked the bankruptcy judge to grant legal authority to turn the tapes over to police.

Waived Attorney-Client Privelege
Judge Brenda T. Rhoades ruled that because Watson once allowed the co-author of his 1978 book, "Will You Die for Me? The Man Who Killed for Charles Manson Tells His Own Story," to hear the tapes, he gave up his right to attorney-client privilege.

Watson, 65, argued through his current attorney that he did not give up attorney-client privilege when he made the book deal to pay his legal fees.

There is no mention in the book of any unsolved crimes and LAPD detectives were quick to explain that they have no idea of what information the tapes might contain, they are just doing due diligence.

Evidence of Unsolved Crimes?
But the possibility that there may be new evidence of unsolved Manson crimes brings up some interesting possibilities.

Watson and the other Manson Family members involved in the 1969 Tate-La Bianca murders were all originally sentenced to death. Their sentences were commuted to life sentences in 1972 when the Supreme Court briefly outlawed the death penalty.

If the Watson tapes do contain leads to other murders the family committed, those involved could be charged and brought to trial, because there is no statute of limitations on the crime of murder.

If convicted, Charles Manson and his followers could conceivably find themselves back on death row after all these years.http://crime.about.com/b/2012/05/30/lapd-to-get-tex-watson-tapes.htm?nl=1

[Whisper]

LOS ANGELES, Calif. - A former Charles Manson follower imprisoned for 40 years after being convicted with Manson and another man in the killings of a musician and a stuntman, won a recommendation of parole in his 27th appearance before a parole board panel.

The answer to Bruce Davis's plea for freedom came on the eve of his 70th birthday. He was a young man of 30 when he was sentenced to life in prison in 1972 in a case that was a postscript to Manson's notorious reign as leader of the murderous communal cult known as the Manson family.

Davis, while convicted in the double murder engineered by Manson, was not involved in the infamous Sharon Tate murders in 1969.

"While your behaviour was atrocious, your crimes did occur 43 years ago," parole board member Jeff Ferguson told Davis, according to the San Luis Obispo Tribune.

Davis long maintained he was a bystander in the killings of the two men, but in recent years he has acknowledged his shared responsibility, and said Thursday he has "made remarkable progress in coming to terms with what I did."

"I want to try to make up for some of the pain and destruction I've caused," Davis said, according to the Tribune.

The hearing was held at the California Men's Colony at San Luis Obispo, where Davis is imprisoned.

His release was opposed by a Los Angeles prosecutor and by a former Manson family member, Barbara Hoyt, as well as Sharon Tate's sister, Debra Tate, who attended the hearing.

The recommendation is not the last hurdle in Davis' quest for freedom. The parole grant is subject to a 120-day review period by the entire parole board. If it is upheld, Gov. Jerry Brown then has 30 days to review the decision.

Los Angeles County district attorney's spokeswoman Sandi Gibbons said: "We certainly disagree with the board's decision. We will evaluate how we plan to proceed as the matter goes to Gov. Brown."

She noted that District Attorney Steve Cooley helped persuade then-Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger to stop Davis' release on his prior parole date in 2010.

A parole board determined then that Davis was ready for release, saying he had no recent disciplinary problems and had completed education and self-help programs.

However, Schwarzenegger reversed the decision, citing the heinous nature of the crimes and saying Davis was still a danger.

Brown's spokesman Gil Duran declined comment after Thursday's hearing, saying the issue had not yet reached the governor's desk.

Davis has been in prison since being convicted with Manson and another follower, Steve Grogan, in the murders of musician Gary Hinman and stuntman Donald "Shorty" Shea.

"I'm pleased and relieved and I hope Bruce's ordeal will be over," said attorney Michael Beckman, who has been fighting for years for the release of Davis.

He said an emotional Davis spoke to the panel at length and took responsibility for his role in the killings. Davis also said he tried to do good for other inmates and would continue ministering for troubled souls on the outside, the lawyer said.

If eventually freed, Davis will go to transitional housing associated with religious groups in Los Angeles County.

Davis became a born-again Christian in prison and ministered to other inmates, married a woman he met through the prison ministry, and has a grown daughter. The couple recently divorced.

Beckman said Davis also earned a master's degree and a doctorate in philosophy of religion.

Beckman said his client is totally rehabilitated and meets state requirements for parole. Los Angeles County Deputy District Attorney Patrick Sequeira opposed his release.

Few followers of the infamous Manson cult have been released from prison. Grogan was freed in 1985 after he led police to Shea's buried body.

Lynette "Squeaky" Fromme was released from federal prison in 2009 after serving time for the attempted assassination of President Gerald Ford.
[...]http://news.ca.msn.com/world/panel-recommends-parole-for-manson-family-member-9

[Whisper]

Attorney: Many More Manson Murders
http://crime.about.com/b/2013/02/06/attorney-many-more-manson-murders.htm?nl=1

[Whisper]

http://crime.about.com/b/2013/02/06/attorney-many-more-manson-murders.htm?nl=1

[Dakota Valkyrie]

The Los Angeles Police Department can have access to personal tape recordings between Charles Manson follower Charles D. "Tex" Watson and his late attorney that investigators believe might hold clues to unsolved killings, a federal judge in Texas ruled Tuesday.

U.S. District Court Judge Richard Schell ruled that Watson waived his right to attorney-client privilege in 1976 by allowing his attorney to sell the tapes for $49,000 to the man who co-authored Watson's memoir.

LAPD investigators want the decades-old recordings between Watson and his attorneys because they believe the tapes could shed light on unsolved killings involving the "family," as Manson's followers were called, according to court documents.

"We are continuing to monitor the case, and are prepared to send our detectives out to Texas to pick up the tapes as soon as they are available," LAPD Cmdr. Andrew Smith told CNN.

"It is our understanding that there is a 30-day window for appeal, and we will wait for that to time to transpire before we send our detectives to Texas."

The news of the judge's ruling came the same day that California Department of Corrections authorities said they arrested a Mason follower, accusing him of attempting to smuggle a cell phone to Manson at Corcoran State Prison.

For more than four decades, authorities have speculated the Manson family was responsible for the rampage that left pregnant actress Sharon Tate and six others dead, including Leno and Rosemary LaBianca.

Manson has claimed more people were killed, though he has repeatedly made fantastic claims that later turn out to be false.

Watson has long maintained there is nothing for authorities to gain with the recordings.

In a June 5, 2012, letter to CNN, Watson wrote: "There is nothing new on the tapes that was excluded from my book 'Will You Die For Me?' The book was co-authored to show delicate consideration when sharing the graphic details of the crime in order to show respect towards the families of the victims."

Watson, Manson and three others -- Susan Atkins, Patricia Krenwinkel and Leslie Van Houten -- were convicted of murder in the killings.

In the letter to CNN, Watson asserted that "there are no unsolved murders committed by the Manson Family."
[...]

The tapes are about eight hours of recordings between Watson and his attorney from 1969, Bill Boyd of McKinney, Texas, according to court papers. Boyd died in 2009.

According to court documents, Watson waived his attorney-client privilege to the tapes in 1976, and his attorney received partial payment for his legal fees when he gave a copy of the tapes to Chaplain Raymond G. Hoekstra, who subsequently co-authored the book, "Will You Die for Me: The Man Who Killed for Charles Manson Tells His Own Story."
[...]

In 2008, Watson wrote CNN that he was aware of no bodies buried in a remote Death Valley, California, site called Barker Ranch, the last hideout for Manson and his family, when CNN did a report about a corpse-sniffing dog visiting the site.

Watson, 66, was convicted of seven counts of first-degree murder and has been denied parole 16 times. He will be considered again in 2016, according to the California Department of Corrections.
http://www.kctv5.com/story/21802336/manson-murder-mystery-lapd-hopes-decades-old-tapes-hold-clues