Even white supremacists don't hate Obama.

[LadyValkyrie37]

Post-racial
by Michael Crowley
Even white supremacists don't hate Obama.
Post Date Wednesday, March 12, 2008

David Duke was on the phone, talking about Barack Obama. Yes, that David Duke: After a query lodged at his website, the infamous ex-Klansman had responded via a mysterious e-mail address--he appeared in my inbox as "info45." (Duke regularly changes address to combat hate mail--the kind he doesn't like, that is.) Duke said he was traveling in Europe, where he often meets with fellow Holocaust deniers, and agreed to discuss the possibility that the United States might soon elect a black president.

Putting it mildly, one would not expect Duke to applaud this development. During Jesse Jackson's 1988 presidential campaign, after all, Duke said Jackson's election "would be the greatest tragedy ever to befall this country." Warning that "the white majority in this country are losing their rights," Duke announced his own counter-candidacy, one whose main purpose seemed to be hounding Jackson.

Yet, far from railing at Obama's rise, Duke seems almost nonchalant about it. Self-described white nationalists like himself, he explained cordially, "don't see much difference in Barack Obama than Hillary Clinton--or, for that matter, John McCain." Sure, Duke considers Obama "a racist individual," citing his Afrocentric Chicago church. But soon the founder of the National Association for the Advancement of White People was critiquing Obama as overhyped and insubstantial in terms you might hear from, say, Clinton strategist Mark Penn. "They say he's for change. What change? He's become almost a cult figure. I don't see any shining light around Obama's head. I don't see any halos," Duke said.

To read more... http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=907272c4-54db-4fba-9149-e95b7293d6a0

Website of Trinity United Church of Christ (Barack Obama's home church)... http://www.tucc.org/about.htm and http://www.tucc.org/mission.htm

Do you think if a person attends a church where the main focus is not only God but also one's "African roots" is that person a racist?

[CPL CHUD]

That's nonsense. I know a few white supremists. The kind that hang Nazi flags in their house and read heavily into Mein Kamf while watching Birth of a Nation. They hate both leading democtratic delegates.

[LadyValkyrie37]

That's nonsense. I know a few white supremists. The kind that hang Nazi flags in their house and read heavily into Mein Kamf while watching Birth of a Nation. They hate both leading democtratic delegates.

Oh I don't doubt you. David Duke is just one white supremist. He doesn't speak for all white supremists worldwide. But what about the question I pose? Do you think if a person attends a church where the main focus is not only God but also one's "African roots" is that person a racist?

[CPL CHUD]

Oh I don't doubt you. David Duke is just one white supremist. He doesn't speak for all white supremists worldwide. But what about the question I pose? Do you think if a person attends a church where the main focus is not only God but also one's "African roots" is that person a racist?
Not neccessarily. A German can go to Octoberfest and get nice and krunk without being a racist. I really don't see the link unless they are espousing racial comments.

[LadyValkyrie37]

Not neccessarily. A German can go to Octoberfest and get nice and krunk without being a racist. I really don't see the link unless they are espousing racial comments.

What does Oktoberfest have to do with whether or not a German is racists or not. Sorry but I don't follow. But Obama associating himself with a church that is all about "black pride" and black power, so to speak, could make one question what exactly is within the heart of this man that everyone seems to think is the Savior of this Nation.

[CPL CHUD]

What does Oktoberfest have to do with whether or not a German is racists or not. Sorry but I don't follow. But Obama associating himself with a church that is all about "black pride" and black power, so to speak, could make one question what exactly is within the heart of this man that everyone seems to think is the Savior of this Nation.
The link I was trying to get at was that Oktoberfest is about German pride, but the people that attend it to celebrate their nationality aren't neccessarily racist. Same with someone with Irish heritage celebrating St. Patrick's day. Being prideful of your heritage in no way constitues racism.

[Athena]

The link I was trying to get at was that Oktoberfest is about German pride, but the people that attend it to celebrate their nationality aren't neccessarily racist. Same with someone with Irish heritage celebrating St. Patrick's day. Being prideful of your heritage in no way constitues racism.

To expound upon that further, people often question why black folks will celebrate blackness and Africa, but white people don't celebrate whiteness and Europe. This is because, generally speaking, we (crackers) know the breakdown of our heritage to the exact percentage. I can tell you that I am primarily Croatian and Armenian, with highlights of German, Irish and French. I know when my peeps made the leap across the pond and for what reason.

Black folks have to celebrate their heritage on a more broad scale because, thanks to slavery, much of their specific history was erased. They don't know what specific country or tribe their peeps came from, which forces them to look at it in a more generic light.

Thus, CPL equating Oktoberfest to a African-specific church is an accurate comparison.

[LadyValkyrie37]

The link I was trying to get at was that Oktoberfest is about German pride, but the people that attend it to celebrate their nationality aren't neccessarily racist. Same with someone with Irish heritage celebrating St. Patrick's day. Being prideful of your heritage in no way constitues racism.

Oh ok... I was just confused because everyone all over the world celebrates Oktoberfest whether they are German or not. It's all about the beer baby! lol

[I am Legend]

the problem arises when i start up my own church which i plan to call

The Jesus Christ Likes White People More Foundation

watch how many people come out and call me racist. the one thing people who claim to have suffered racism hate is a white dude having some white pride.

maybe its post-traumatic slave-owner envy?

[CPL CHUD]

There is a Polish and Irish oriented church around here. I don't see anybody fussing over them. People are going to naturally segregate no matter what.

[impqueen]

the problem arises when i start up my own church which i plan to call

The Jesus Christ Likes White People More Foundation



Silly Legend. That church already exists! It's called Landover Baptist (http://www.landoverbaptist.org/). :D

The Southern Baptist Convention actually had a president in the 1970s who said that black people were not qualified to minister to whites (he didn't say it very loud, but he did say it.) And Mormonism held until recent years that black people could not enter the temple and do the Secret Mormon Handshake because they were not "white and pleasing to the Lord".

[gprime]

CPL, there is a difference between catering primarily to a specific ethnic or racial group, and asserting its supremacy. Obama's church falls into the latter category.

[CPL CHUD]

CPL, there is a difference between catering primarily to a specific ethnic or racial group, and asserting its supremacy. Obama's church falls into the latter category.

How? I thought I was missing something so I poured over their website again and couldn't find anything suggesting a certain races supremecy over the other. I see catering to African Americans, not racism. They even have statements suggesting that all people are welcome into the love of Jesus Christ. The only assertion of supremecy I see is that of one religous worldview over another, which is common within religion.

Seriously, I'm a huge racist, hate religion, am not voting for Obama, and I find myself defending him and his church here. Wait a minute, what the hell am I doing!? Fucking darky.

[gprime]

I would disagree quite strongly, as there seems to be plenty of afrocentrist rhetoric with militant undertones (http://sweetness-light.com/archive/barack-obamas-church-ultra-left-and-afrocentric). In particular, phrases like "soldiers for Black freedom" are very alarming. And, in order to evaluate the Church, you must look beyond printed doctrine, and at the words and actions of its leadership. And really, the more you look, the more alarming it becomes (http://husaria.wordpress.com/category/jeremiah-wright/).

[Athena]

It's interesting, gprime. If the verbiage in the links you provided used the word "white" in place of "black", it would certainly be considered racist. But does that mean it is? Are they professing superiority, or simply addressing their own? Do both qualify as racism? I don't know. Swivel's got a looser definition than I do, I think. So, I have to ask for a fairly specific response, if you're feeling up to it.

[swivel]

I would disagree quite strongly, as there seems to be plenty of afrocentrist rhetoric with militant undertones (http://sweetness-light.com/archive/barack-obamas-church-ultra-left-and-afrocentric). In particular, phrases like "soldiers for Black freedom" are very alarming. And, in order to evaluate the Church, you must look beyond printed doctrine, and at the words and actions of its leadership. And really, the more you look, the more alarming it becomes (http://husaria.wordpress.com/category/jeremiah-wright/).

100% agree. I would go even further to say that pride in one's own race is something to be avoided at all costs. That is the seed or racism. In fact, I don't think you can have racism without racial pride, and I don't think you can have racial pride, and remain non-racist.

If so, racial pride == racism. I do not think this is a stretch at all. And gprime, this is one of the things you and I argue about concerning Jews. And it is a feeling that I think very few people work on getting rid of. If you wake up in the morning and think, "I sure am glad I'm white/black/Hispanic/Italian/Swedish", you have a problem there. Not because I think pride in self is a bad thing (obviously), but because we should not let pride be correlated, positively OR negatively, with traits over which people have ZERO control or influence.

You should be able to wake up and feel proud of your painting ability, which may be greatly enhanced by some genetic factors, but which requires choices and behaviors assumed by you. The danger is that we start to feel pride for the things we have no influence over, and this transitions easily into us having disdain for others over those same delineations. In fact, I do not think it would be possible for us to begin doing the former, and NOT end up guilty of the latter. Once those sorts of groupings become physical objects in our conceptualization of the world, we will begin using them in other ways.

The way to start healing is to look for better reasons for us to gauge worth in ourselves and others. I, personally, use superstition as my indicator of another's worth (inversely correlated, of course).

[Athena]

but because we should not let pride be correlated, positively OR negatively, with traits over which people have ZERO control or influence.

You should be able to wake up and feel proud of your painting ability, which may be greatly enhanced by some genetic factors, but which requires choices and behaviors assumed by you. The danger is that we start to feel pride for the things we have no influence over, and this transitions easily into us having disdain for others over those same delineations.


I'm with you on this much.

You got silly from there, though, so I edited it out. ;)

[CPL CHUD]

I would disagree quite strongly, as there seems to be plenty of afrocentrist rhetoric with militant undertones (http://sweetness-light.com/archive/barack-obamas-church-ultra-left-and-afrocentric). In particular, phrases like "soldiers for Black freedom" are very alarming. And, in order to evaluate the Church, you must look beyond printed doctrine, and at the words and actions of its leadership. And really, the more you look, the more alarming it becomes (http://husaria.wordpress.com/category/jeremiah-wright/).
I find all religion alarming. I have an umbrella of distaste for all its forms. Celebrating one's heritage, being proud of one's genes, does contain the seeds of racism, but I'm cautious to label it as being outright racist. If that's the case then I don't have a problem with dismissing most religious denominations as being racist as well.