Pa. boy, 11, charged with killing pregnant woman

[RaVen Blackehart]

Police in western Pennsylvania say an 11-year-old boy has been charged in the death of a pregnant woman who was found shot in a bedroom of her farmhouse.

Police say the boy is charged with criminal homicide and criminal homicide of an unborn child in the killing of 26-year-old Kenzie Marie Houk. The victim was 8 months pregnant.

Lawrence County police issued a statement saying the boy had been arraigned and sent to the county Jail.

They couldn't immediately say Saturday whether the boy and the woman were related. continued

http://www.buffalonews.com/260/story/585964.html

[Jaded]

OMG...and her 5-year-old daughter found her. Terrible.

Keep us updated on this one Raven....

[DarkPrincess]

Her 5 year old daughter found her too. Wonderful. This is so disturbing to me. Why are our children turning into monsters?

[RaVen Blackehart]

http://i43.tinypic.com/jg175x.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/2s1vpmb.jpg


A 26-year-old woman, due to give birth in two weeks, was shot and killed in a farmhouse on a quiet Lawrence County road.

Kenzie Houk, a mother of two who was to deliver a boy, was pronounced dead at the scene Friday afternoon. The unborn baby also died, according to investigators.

State police from Lawrence and Butler counties revealed sparse details Friday, but said the case is being treated as a homicide and people were being questioned, state police Lt. Steve Ignatz said. Police were seeking information about any unusual activities or vehicles in the area of 1146 Wampum-New Galilee Road in New Beaver Thursday night or Friday morning.

Houk’s death was discovered around 9:30 a.m. Friday after a 4-year-old girl alerted workers clearing firewood at the property.

Steve Cable, owner of Steve Cable’s Tree Service in Brighton Township, said a stroke of luck brought him and his crew back to the property Friday. They had not finished clearing firewood the night before and had to make an unscheduled trip back to the cattle farm.

“It’s a good thing, I feel,” he said.

The group returned around 9 a.m. Friday and worked until the girl, clothed in her pajamas, came to the front door, crying.

“She said, ‘My mommy’s dead,’ and then she said she wanted her brother and sister,” Cable said.

The 4-year-old, Houk’s younger daughter, told Cable her mother was in her bed and no one else was in the house. Also living with Houk at the property were her 8-year-old daughter, Houk’s boyfriend, Chris Brown, and Brown’s 11-year-old son, according to her family members.

Cable, who said he had seen nothing unusual at the home Friday, called for help while the child stayed at the door, wrapped in a blanket.

Later, a police officer or paramedic told Cable that Houk had been shot to death.

Police called Brown at work and Brown alerted Houk’s parents, Cable said. The older children were in school.

“I’m devastated by this,” said Jack Houk of Shenango Township. “What kind of person could do something like this to a pregnant woman?”

Jack Houk said he was called to the house by 11:30 a.m. and was left to wait for details at the bottom of the driveway where many other family members and friends had gathered.

Most of what he learned, he said, he got through television reports.

Around 5:30 p.m., a deputy coroner spoke with Jack Houk. He declined to reveal the details of that conversation.

http://www.timesonline.com/articles/2009/02/20/news/top_stories/doc499f72f020b3d559475441.txt

[PoongyPrincess]

Her 5 year old daughter found her too. Wonderful. This is so disturbing to me. Why are our children turning into monsters?

I have some ideas.

1. With most families needing both parents to work, and some families needing both parents to work two jobs, there is not enough time for parents to spend with their kids to raise them to become normal, kind, responsible adults.

2. Easy access to firearms. Parents who own guns need to realize that they aren't toys, and they aren't something that's just kept lying around. Guns should either be securely locked away or the responsible gun owner should have one holstered, safety on, in their physical possession.

3. Harsh and punitive punishments which teach that anger is solved through violence, and that hurting others is expected and normal.

[Special2bme]

WAMPUM, Pa. — An 11-year-old boy has been charged in the death of a pregnant woman who was found shot in a bedroom of her western Pennsylvania farmhouse, police said Saturday.

A statement from state police said the boy was charged with criminal homicide and criminal homicide of an unborn child in the killing of 26-year-old Kenzie Marie Houk. The victim was 8 months pregnant.

The statement said the boy had been arraigned in District Court and placed in the Lawrence County jail.

Officers couldn't immediately say Saturday whether the boy and the woman were related and wouldn't give any other details.

Police said Houk's 5-year-old daughter found her mother's body Friday morning in a bedroom of their home in a wooded area in the community of Wampum.

The home, located at the end of a half-mile-long driveway along a road scattered with abandoned and burned-out trailers, was cordoned off with yellow police tape and a Pennsylvania State Police vehicle was parked out front early Saturday afternoon. Next to the house was farm equipment and a barn filled with hay.

A neighbor, Cameron Tucker, said Houk was engaged and had been renting the house for no more than a year. Tucker said he had never met Houk's fiance, but that both of them had children.

"She was very protective of her kids," he said, adding that she seemed very excited about her pregnancy.

Tucker's wife sometimes drove Houk's daughter to the bus stop because she went to preschool with the Tuckers' 5-year-old.

WPXI-TV identified the dead woman's father as Jack Houk. There was no immediate response Saturday to a call by The Associated Press seeking comment from a Jack Houk of New Castle, a town next to Wampum.

A preliminary hearing is set for Thursday.

The rural community is about 35 miles northwest of Pittsburgh.

___http://www.ajc.com/news/content/shared-gen/ap/National/Pregnant_Woman_Killed.html?cxntlid=homepage_tab_ne wstab

[Abroad]

So, is the eleven-year-old suspect the boyfriend's son, or is it a coincidence that he is
also eleven years old?

They're not likely to tell us, are they?



:stupido3:

[MadmamainNC]

That's my question too. Who is the 11 yr old and is this his boy? The first report said his two children were in school.
So sad.

[Abroad]

He could have shot her and then gone to school, trying to make himself an alibi, - or perhaps because he didn't know what else to do......




Or it really might be a different eleven-year-old altogether.

[flawed_existence]

I read about this one on CNN.com this morning. I had just finished telling my husband that young/preteen children rarely kill, and it is even rarer that they use firearms to do so. I had been talking about the 8 year old who recently shot and killed his father and a boarder.

Well, shit. Nonetheless, this type of crime is still very unusual. Although, given where the family lives, I can't imagine that guns would be hard to come by for the boy. When we lived in the country, there was a shotgun by the back door at all times, loaded and ready to fire. The neighbors had been cross breeding wolves and German Shepherds and often turned the crazy ones out 'to die'. They were so goddamned mean, they'd kill anything they saw.

Despite the anti-gun rhetoric that abounds in the US, us country folk have them, teach our children to use them, and keep guns handy. Who the HELL would think their 11 year old would pick one up to kill somebody? If you believe that you should lock your guns up because your child, (who is fully aware of gun safety rules and who would no more 'play' with a gun than he would piss off the front porch), might kill someone with them, then you've got a bigger problem than gun safety.

(Oh, and my kids don't piss off of EITHER porch. They know better!)

I'm terribly sorry for this woman's family and especially for the little girl who had to find her dead mommy. But I know this situation is going to get turned into a fucking Gun Control debate before it's all over. It's not about gun control. This kid would have used an axe if that's all that was available.

[MadmamainNC]

I'm terribly sorry for this woman's family and especially for the little girl who had to find her dead mommy. But I know this situation is going to get turned into a fucking Gun Control debate before it's all over. It's not about gun control. This kid would have used an axe if that's all that was available.

You are so right. If someone wants to kill, they'll find anything to help with the deed.

Knives, Guns, Tire Irons, Chloroform, Antifreeze, etc.. etc.. don't kill people, People kill people.

[Ninja0980]

Even with this report, pre-teens rarely kill and when they do, either they're evil or there are underlying factors. Have to see more on this.

[Unamused Cat]

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg107/snarkyphotos/JordanAnthonyBrown.jpg
Jordan Anthony Brown

http://www.timesonline.com/articles/2009/02/21/news/top_stories/doc49a0c63ea637a034974466.txt

[Shroomer]

This is a sad story, I really feel sad for the fiance/dad. He is dealing with a lot right now,

[Shellie435]

I saw this one the local news tonight. Jordan Brown was her future step-son, her boyfriends son. What was reported here is he apparently shot Ms Houk and went off to school as if nothing happened. I really do not understand how an 11 year old kid can commit a murder like this, the go off to school as he did. Maybe he had some real resentment/jealousy towards the new baby..or he really hated her? I don't know..but murder? What do you do to a kid that age? Will this be a case where he goes to juvie til he's 21 then set free? Just how do you punish this particular crime?

[Kitty]

WAMPUM, Pa. – Fifth-grader Jordan Brown boarded the bus and headed to school like he does most other mornings in this rural western Pennsylvania community.

But Friday was no typical morning. Before he left his rented farmhouse, authorities say, the 11-year-old fatally shot his father's pregnant fiancee in the back of the head as she lay in bed. He then put his youth model 20-gauge shotgun back in his room and went out to catch his bus, police say.

Brown was charged Saturday as an adult in the death of 26-year-old Kenzie Marie Houk, who was eight months pregnant, Lawrence County District Attorney John Bongivengo said. Houk's fetus died within minutes due to a lack of oxygen, Lawrence County Coroner Russell Noga said.

The death and charges against Brown caught family and friends by surprise and left Wampum, about 45 miles northwest of Pittsburgh, to ponder what would possess a boy to allegedly shoot someone.

Houk's family and friends, who gathered at her parents' house Saturday night, told The Associated Press that there had been past problems with the boy.
"He actually told my son that he wanted to do that to her," Houk's brother-in-law, Jason Kraner said. "There was an issue with jealousy."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090222/ap_on_re_us/pregnant_woman_killed

Kenzie Houk's private Myspace: http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewProfile&friendID=230584130

[Jaded]

But Friday was no typical morning. Before he left his rented farmhouse, authorities say, the 11-year-old fatally shot his father's pregnant fiancee in the back of the head as she lay in bed. He then put his youth model 20-gauge shotgun back in his room and went out to catch his bus, police say.

Holyjeebusfuckinchrist! That is cold....

[~Absynthe~]

Houk's family and friends, who gathered at her parents' house Saturday night, told The Associated Press that there had been past problems with the boy.
"He actually told my son that he wanted to do that to her," Houk's brother-in-law, Jason Kraner saidso they knew this and didn'nt do anything about it? plus he still was allowed to keep his gun in his room I think the people that knew this are just as guilty they may have be able to take steps to prevent this from happeningWTF?

[Tazzzz]

Murder victim Kenzie Marie Houk of New Beaver Borough, Lawrence County, is shown in this undated photo
http://www.timesonline.com/content/articles/2009/02/22/news/doc49a0c730824a7403203039.jpg


Kenzie was only 2 weeks away from her due date. There pretty solid on the 11 year old being the one who did it.


NEW CASTLE — When state police troopers asked Chris Brown if he recognized a youth-model .20-gauge shotgun, he not only recognized it, he said his son used it to win a turkey shoot on Valentine’s Day, according to a police report.

Police believe the shotgun used to win that turkey shoot was the same one used to kill 26-year-old Kenzie M. Houk and her unborn son, according to a criminal complaint. Houk was Chris Brown’s live-in girlfriend. The couple, his son and her two daughters lived in a rented farmhouse at 1146 Wampum-New Galilee Road, New Beaver. The couple’s baby was due in about two weeks.

Jordan Anthony Brown, Chris Brown’s 11-year-old son, has been charged in Houk’s killing. He was charged as an adult with criminal homicide and criminal homicide of an unborn child. He is in the Lawrence County Jail.

According to a criminal complaint, Houk was shot around 8 a.m. Friday. The shotgun was found in Jordan Brown’s bedroom, according to the complaint.

It was Houk’s 7-year-old daughter, whom police did not identify, who offered the most damning information about Jordan Brown.

In the criminal complaint, police reported:

•The girl told investigators that Jordan Brown brought the shotgun downstairs from his bedroom Friday morning and then took it back upstairs.

•She said she saw him putting on his socks, and she had started to put on her shoes when she heard a “big boom.”

•She did not see Jordan Brown shoot Houk, and when the girl questioned Jordan Brown about the source of the sound, he wouldn’t tell her.

•She said she recognizes the sound of a gun because Chris Brown and Jordan Brown sometimes shoot in the backyard.

•She also said that just a few minutes prior to hearing the sound, she heard her mother calling for them to hurry or they would miss the bus to school. Her 4-year-old sister, whom police also did not identify, was asleep in another bedroom.

•The woman was shot once in the back of the head while on her side in her bed, an autopsy revealed. The fetus died of a lack of oxygen.

•Wadding (the tubing used to contain pellets in a shotgun shell) was removed from Houk’s body, and it matched the shotgun taken from the boy’s bedroom.

http://www.timesonline.com/articles/2009/02/22/news/doc49a0c730824a7403203039.txt
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

WAMPUM, Pa. But Friday was no typical morning. Before he left his rented farmhouse, authorities say, the 11-year-old fatally shot his father's pregnant fiancee in the back of the head as she lay in bed. He then put his youth model 20-gauge shotgun back in his room and went out to catch his bus, police say.

The death and charges against Brown caught family and friends by surprise and left Wampum, about 45 miles northwest of Pittsburgh, to ponder what would possess a boy to allegedly shoot someone.

Houk's family and friends, who gathered at her parents' house Saturday night, told The Associated Press that there had been past problems with the boy.

"He actually told my son that he wanted to do that to her," Houk's brother-in-law, Jason Kraner said. "There was an issue with jealousy."

The boy told police there was a black truck on the property that morning — possibly the man who feeds the cows — sending investigators to follow a false lead for about five hours, Bongivengo said. Inconsistencies in Brown's description of the truck led police to re-interview Houk's 7-year-old daughter, who implicated the boy in the killing, Bongivengo said. State troopers came to get the boy at school.

"An 11-year-old kid — what would give him the motive to shoot someone?" Houk's father Jack said. "Maybe he was just jealous of my daughter and the baby and thought he would be overpowered."

Defense attorney Dennis Elisco said he plans to ask Monday for the boy to be released on bail and for the case to moved to juvenile court. Elisco and police said they had no clear motive for the shooting.

The boy's father, Christopher Brown, is "a mess" and had no prior indication his son had a problem with Houk, Elisco said. "He's in a state of actual shock and disbelief," he said.

The shotgun used is designed for children and has a shorter arm and such weapons do not have to be registered, Bongivengo said. Jack Houk, 57, said the boy and his father used to practice shooting behind their farmhouse, and the two enjoyed going hunting together

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090222/ap_on_re_us/pregnant_woman_killed
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

[brie star]

I think this is the dads myspace:
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewProfile&friendID=99362415

[Tazzzz]

I was thinking about this case this morning. I am kind of torn between the boy going to adult court Vs juvie court. If he is tried and sentenced in an adult court, WTF are they going to do with the little bugger??? A prison isn't set up for a 11 year old boy. The jail he is at wants him moved to a juvie center, he doesn't know what to do with him either.


PITTSBURGH — A western Pennsylvania jail warden says he'll ask a judge to move an 11-year-old boy accused of killing his father's pregnant girlfriend to a juvenile detention center.

Lawrence County Warden Charles Adamo said Sunday that his 300-inmate jail cannot offer proper long-term care for Jordan Brown, of Wampum. The boy has been in the county jail some 45 miles northwest of Pittsburgh since early Saturday.

Brown is charged as an adult with using his own 20-gauge shotgun to kill 26-year-old Kenzie Marie Houk while she lay in bed Friday morning.

Prosecutors are not discussing a motive, but experts on blended families say it's not unusual for children to feel anger and fury toward a parent's new mate.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/nation/6275425.html

[Ninja0980]

And even the state prison designed for juveniles charged as adults is geared towards older offenders 14 and up. They wouldn't be able to hold him either.

[piXyNinjette]

I dont agree with this child being charged as an adult... he is still a baby pretty much

[PoongyPrincess]

I dont agree with this child being charged as an adult... he is still a baby pretty much

I do. The kid has been hunting with his dad. He knows that once something is dead it's dead permanently. He mentioned wanting to kill his future step-mom before he did it, so it was premeditated. Then he sneaked up behind and shot her in the back of the head. He was a little coward because he couldn't even face her. He destroyed his own family. He killed his dad's love and killed his new little sibling (2 weeks from birth), which means that he killed his dad's new baby.

I think a few years in jail while undergoing counseling and treatment is exactly what he needs, and I don't think he should be let out until he is proven safe to society.

[MichaelJCheaney]

There is supposed to be a hearing Tomorrow? About waiving him into Juvi court.

Being that is only 11 I see him being in the Juvi system.

I can't see an 11 year old going to prison. Unless they remand him in the Juvi system until he is 18 or 21 and have him finish his sentence in an Adult Prison.

[piXyNinjette]

I do. The kid has been hunting with his dad. He knows that once something is dead it's dead permanently. He mentioned wanting to kill his future step-mom before he did it, so it was premeditated. Then he sneaked up behind and shot her in the back of the head. He was a little coward because he couldn't even face her. He destroyed his own family. He killed his dad's love and killed his new little sibling (2 weeks from birth), which means that he killed his dad's new baby.

I think a few years in jail while undergoing counseling and treatment is exactly what he needs, and I don't think he should be let out until he is proven safe to society.



I didnt say i didnt believe he didnt know what he was doing. NOr am i saying he shouldnt be punished but no 11 year old belongs in the adult system in my opinion.

[Ninja0980]

I agree they know dead is dead but I don't think he fully grasped the consquences of it. That things wouldn't go back to the way they were before. That his dad can't view him the same way as before etc. And in PA, he can be locked up until he's 21, which I imagine will be the case here.

[Dakota Valkyrie]

If they put him in an adult facility, he would have to be locked up alone 24/7. Otherwise they might as well put a big "Fresh Meat" and a Walmart Roll Back sticker on him.

[MISSanthropic]

I don't know how the system works there and I am too tired to look it up, but I would think they would keep him in a juvenile system until he was 18 and then transfer him. Either way, I do not think this kid should get out for a long time.

[Special2bme]

http://i359.photobucket.com/albums/oo35/Special2bme/3_61_022109_brown_320.jpgWAMPUM, Pa. -- The Lawrence County Jail warden told Channel 11 Sunday night that he wants an 11-year-old boy charged with murder moved out of his jail.

Charles Adamo said his 300-inmate jail cannot offer proper long-term care for Jordan Brown, of Wampum, who has been charged with using his own .20-gauge shotgun to kill 26-year-old Kenzie Marie Houk.

Houk was eight months pregnant with Brown's father's child, and also had two daughters, 7 and 4, who lived in the rural home with the Browns where authorities said she was slain as she lay in bed about 8 a.m. Friday.

The boy then hopped onto a school bus with Houk's oldest daughter, police said. He was picked up from school several hours later after some tree trimmers called 911 when Houk's youngest daughter told them she thought her mother was dead.

The boy has been in the jail some 45 miles northwest of Pittsburgh since early Saturday, Adamo said. He's being held in one of four 10-by-8-foot cells in the jail's booking area, where officials check on him every 15 minutes.

The boy gets the same food as the other inmates but cannot receive visitors, except for his attorney, because doing so would require him to mingle with adult inmates, Adamo said. Even something as simple as letting the boy shower would require locking down an entire cellblock, most of which hold up to 63 inmates, Adamo said.

Brown's cell has a sink, toilet and bunk, and the inside can be seen from a desk where a booking clerk sits, Adamo said.

Adamo told Channel 11, "I think for his safety and for our liability it will probably be safe for him, to be best to have him housed in a juvenile setting."

Brown's attorney, Dennis Elisco, said jail officials can't even find clothes to fit the 4-foot-8 boy.

"They put a shirt on him, he's swimming in it, and his pants are cuffed up about 10 times," Elisco said.

Brown is charged as an adult because Pennsylvania law allows prosecutors to charge children as young as 10 with criminal homicide. Elisco will file motions on Monday asking a judge to move the case to juvenile court and to let the boy's father post bail so he can be freed.

"I don't think anybody wants him there," Elisco said, referring to the county jail.

Elisco said a judge likely won't hear his motions right away. Until then, Elisco hopes to get the fifth-grader's school to send him assignments in jail.

"I want him to be occupied and busy and back, essentially, in school," Elisco said. "I wouldn't say he's in good spirits. He's confused. He looks and acts like a typical 11-year-old."

For now, the boy faces a preliminary hearing on Thursday to determine if he'll stand trial. If a judge agrees the case might belong in juvenile court, a dual-purpose hearing will determine if there's evidence to support the charges, but Elisco will also have to prove the boy can be rehabilitated through a juvenile system that has jurisdiction only until the boy turns 21.

Elisco said the boy has not confessed to the shooting, and he doesn't believe the physical evidence will support the police contention that the boy killed Houk, execution-style, with one shot to the back of her head.

Police and District Attorney John Bongivengo haven't discussed a motive, and Elisco used an expletive to dismiss claims by Houk's family that the boy might have been jealous of Houk.

"I think it's all bull ... there's no animosity," Elisco said.

Police said Houk's 4-year-old daughter left the house to tell a man trimming trees that something was wrong with her mother on Friday morning.

"We come out to load firewood. We had a little girl that come to the door and told us that her mommy had passed away and I called 911... I stayed there until the state police came in and they found her," said Steve Cable.

Jack Houk, the dead woman’s father, said, "The thing that hurts me the worst is that I can't remember the last time I told her I love her. That'll hurt me the rest of my life."

Houk was due to deliver her baby in just two weeks.
http://www.wpxi.com/news/18760897/detail.html

There is something about those child's eyes that I don't like.

[Peeperann]

I dont agree with this child being charged as an adult... he is still a baby pretty much

I disagree with that statement. If at this age, he can commit murder, what is he going to be capable of when he is an adult. He knew what he was doing, he even tried to point the finger at the man who fed the cows. He is diabolical enough to plan it and try to cover himself.

I think he should be put away forever. The only question in my mind is where to put him until he's 18.

[RaVen Blackehart]

I disagree with that statement. If at this age, he can commit murder, what is he going to be capable of when he is an adult. He knew what he was doing, he even tried to point the finger at the man who fed the cows. He is diabolical enough to plan it and try to cover himself.

I think he should be put away forever. The only question in my mind is where to put him until he's 18.

Exactly, Peep. Otherwise, there's a strong possibility he will grow up to be another Edmund Emil Kemper. If he had been kept locked up for the rest of his life from the age of 15 (and not gone back to live with his mother) a whole lot of people would still be alive today.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/predators/kemper/edmund_1.html

[nurseronda]

I disagree with that statement. If at this age, he can commit murder, what is he going to be capable of when he is an adult. He knew what he was doing, he even tried to point the finger at the man who fed the cows. He is diabolical enough to plan it and try to cover himself.

I think he should be put away forever. The only question in my mind is where to put him until he's 18.The gas chamber with the gas turned on???

[Special2bme]

I just put a pic up of the child and his eyes give me the creeps. We had a neighbor child next door to us that had the same look in his eyes and he threaten to kill my son. Oh, it was horrible I had to call the police they came over but really nothing they could do but they finally moved. There wasn't a day that I wasn't afraid for my son. Oh just noticed UC had one didn't see that but the one I found his eyes have this black blank stare to them.

[Dakota Valkyrie]

Seeing the un-cropped photo drives home how young/small this boy is:

http://i39.tinypic.com/2udwznm.jpg

[Special2bme]

I just watched a show the other night but damn if I can remember the killers name maybe one of you can. Anyhow when he was a kid he shot his mom while she was in the bath (she died) and his father (he lived), they kept it a secret. Then when he was older he shot his wife and niece that's when they found out about what he had done when he was a child and come to find out he was a serial killer. All they did to this man when he was a child was put him in a psych ward for a year then he got out and his father took him back and they moved out of the state they were in. So I believe this child needs to be tried as an adult so something like this doesn't happen again.

[Nell]

I'm actually afraid of this kid. I am usually the first to say that juveniles don't truly understand death, and that they shouldn't be put away forever, but not this kid. I went hunting as a child, and i can tell you, if you hunt you know dead. And you know that dead does not come back to life, it is gone forever. He knew what he was doing when he shot her, and he knew she was very pregnant, so he was also killing the baby.

I really hope he doesn't get out for decades, if ever.

[RaVen Blackehart]

The attorney for an 11-year-old murder suspect said his goal is to get his client out of jail on bond after the boy spent the last three nights there.

Jordan Brown, of Wampum, was jailed after being charged with using his own 20-gauge shotgun to kill 26-year-old Kenzie Marie Houk.

Houk was eight months pregnant with Brown's father's child, and also had two daughters, 7 and 4, who lived with the Browns in the rural home where, authorities said, Houk was slain at about 8 a.m. Friday as she lay in bed.

"He's not doing well. He's a typical 11-year-old kid," said Brown's attorney, Dennis Elisco. "My goal today is to get him bonded out."

Elisco also hopes to get the fifth-grader's school to send him assignments in jail.

On Sunday, Charles Adamo, Lawrence County Jail warden, said he wants the 11-year-old boy moved out of his jail. He said his 300-inmate jail cannot offer proper long-term care for Brown.

"I think for his safety and for our liability it will probably be safe for him, to be best to have him housed in a juvenile setting," said Adamo.

"I don't think anybody wants him there," Elisco said. He said jail officials can't even find clothes to fit the 4-foot-8 boy.

"They put a shirt on him, he's swimming in it, and his pants are cuffed up about 10 times," Elisco said.

In addition to finding the boy's 20-gauge shotgun, police found a blue blanket with a hole in it, and burn marks around the hole's edges.

Police said Brown shot Houk and then got onto a school bus with Houk's oldest daughter. He was picked up from school several hours later after some tree trimmers called 911 when Houk's youngest daughter told them she thought her mother was dead.

Brown has been in the jail about 45 miles northwest of Pittsburgh since early Saturday, Adamo said. He's being held in one of four 10-by-8-foot cells in the jail's booking area, where officials check on him every 15 minutes.

Brown gets the same food as the other inmates but cannot receive visitors, except for his attorney, because doing so would require him to mingle with adult inmates, Adamo said. Even something as simple as letting the boy shower would require locking down an entire cellblock, most of which hold up to 63 inmates, Adamo said.

Brown's cell has a sink, toilet and bunk, and the inside can be seen from a desk where a booking clerk sits, Adamo said.

Brown is charged as an adult because Pennsylvania law allows prosecutors to charge children as young as 10 with criminal homicide.

For now, the boy faces a preliminary hearing on Thursday to determine if he'll stand trial. If a judge agrees, the case might belong in juvenile court. A dual-purpose hearing will determine if there's evidence to support the charges, but Elisco will also have to prove the boy can be rehabilitated through a juvenile system that has jurisdiction only until the boy turns 21.

Elisco said the boy has not confessed to the shooting, and he doesn't believe the physical evidence will support the police contention that the boy killed Houk, execution-style, with one shot to the back of her head.

Police and District Attorney John Bongivengo haven't discussed a motive, and Elisco used an expletive to dismiss claims by Houk's family that the boy might have been jealous of Houk.

"I think it's all bull ... there's no animosity," Elisco said.

Police said Houk's 4-year-old daughter left the house to tell a man trimming trees that something was wrong with her mother on Friday morning.

"We come out to load firewood. We had a little girl that come to the door and told us that her mommy had passed away and I called 911... I stayed there until the state police came in and they found her," said Steve Cable.

Jack Houk, the dead woman’s father, said, "The thing that hurts me the worst is that I can't remember the last time I told her I love her. That'll hurt me the rest of my life."

http://www.wpxi.com/news/18760897/detail.html#-

[malq]

"He's not doing well. He's a typical 11-year-old kid," said Brown's attorney, Dennis Elisco. "My goal today is to get him bonded out."

Do typical 11 year olds go around blowing away pregnant women with shotguns? I don't think we ever did that at that age. Or maybe we did..

[maryhaze]

I'm actually afraid of this kid. I am usually the first to say that juveniles don't truly understand death, and that they shouldn't be put away forever, but not this kid. I went hunting as a child, and i can tell you, if you hunt you know dead. And you know that dead does not come back to life, it is gone forever. He knew what he was doing when he shot her, and he knew she was very pregnant, so he was also killing the baby.

I really hope he doesn't get out for decades, if ever.


you are exactly right. we don't hunt but my kids know that sometimes our rescue dogs die. & they know they are gone forever. my youngest is 8 & he knows it. practically speaking, it's a matter of doing something about this kid now or seeing how many he adds to HIS body count before we get the stones to do it. JMO

[Athena]

I think it's horrific that they're charging this kid as an adult. It doesn't work both ways, folks - you can't decide that a child is not mentally or emotionally developed enough to exercise the same rights adults have, but can be charged as though he's fully-functioning should he fuck up.

If an adult was described as having the mental capacity of an 11 year old, we'd consider that person retarded, in need of supervision and, should that person commit a crime, it would sure as hell be a mitigating factor. And, do you know WHY mentally handicapped people are commonly described as having the mental capacity of a (insert very specific age here) year old? Because there are pretty specific stages of development associated with age.

Sure, he may know "dead is dead" at 11. But if he was off hunting with dad and even owned his own gun, "dead" may have been too casual a concept for him.

Now, I'm not saying that this kid shouldn't go away for a LONG time. But he should absolutely be in a juvenile facility that focuses on rehabilitation until he's 18, or even 21. We wouldn't treat an adult with a mental age of 11 like any other murderer... we shouldn't do that to this kid, either.

[MichaelJCheaney]

I think it's horrific that they're charging this kid as an adult. It doesn't work both ways, folks - you can't decide that a child is not mentally or emotionally developed enough to exercise the same rights adults have, but can be charged as though he's fully-functioning should he fuck up.

If an adult was described as having the mental capacity of an 11 year old, we'd consider that person retarded, in need of supervision and, should that person commit a crime, it would sure as hell be a mitigating factor. And, do you know WHY mentally handicapped people are commonly described as having the mental capacity of a (insert very specific age here) year old? Because there are pretty specific stages of development associated with age.

Sure, he may know "dead is dead" at 11. But if he was off hunting with dad and even owned his own gun, "dead" may have been too casual a concept for him.

Now, I'm not saying that this kid shouldn't go away for a LONG time. But he should absolutely be in a juvenile facility that focuses on rehabilitation until he's 18, or even 21. We wouldn't treat an adult with a mental age of 11 like any other murderer... we shouldn't do that to this kid, either.

I will reinterate what I said last night. House him in Juvi until he is 18. And then its off to the Big Boy prison for you....

[Special2bme]

I think it's horrific that they're charging this kid as an adult. It doesn't work both ways, folks - you can't decide that a child is not mentally or emotionally developed enough to exercise the same rights adults have, but can be charged as though he's fully-functioning should he fuck up.

If an adult was described as having the mental capacity of an 11 year old, we'd consider that person retarded, in need of supervision and, should that person commit a crime, it would sure as hell be a mitigating factor. And, do you know WHY mentally handicapped people are commonly described as having the mental capacity of a (insert very specific age here) year old? Because there are pretty specific stages of development associated with age.

Sure, he may know "dead is dead" at 11. But if he was off hunting with dad and even owned his own gun, "dead" may have been too casual a concept for him.

Now, I'm not saying that this kid shouldn't go away for a LONG time. But he should absolutely be in a juvenile facility that focuses on rehabilitation until he's 18, or even 21. We wouldn't treat an adult with a mental age of 11 like any other murderer... we shouldn't do that to this kid, either.

I see your point Athena and I do agree that he probably should be put in a juvenile facility until he reaches age 18 and then transferred over to prison at that age. But if he is not tried as an adult then he wouldn't get the proper prison time right?

[calidreamin09]

It depends on state law. I am from cali and there he would go to y.a. or youth authority until he is up to 25. So they can keep someone who is convicted as a juvnile up to the age of 25. However what ever is wrong with this kid now is going to be alot worse if goes to some where like ya until hes 25. It is worse then juvenile hall and is even alot worse then prison. I have two exs whose parents worked for the ya system in cali. The problem is alot of young offenders are alot more brutal and cold blooded then older ones. They dont have the same codes the big boys follow. I took alot of child psychology in college and a 11 year old is really picking up who he is going to be as a adult. So if he is in a ya type of setting until hes 25 hes going to learn to be an adult from alot of monsters. The one difference there will prob be when he gets out is he will have learned how to cover his tracks and deceive better. I cant really say what to do with this kid. It is so hard for me to imagine a child that young doing something so horrible. My oldest is almost 11 and he is growing into a young adult but he is still a child in so many ways. He has never even beed home alone! With the steady increase of younger and more violent offenders we as a country really need to come up with a viable solution as to what to do with these kids. Possibly create some kind of institution centered around rehablitation and mental health for kids 14 or 15 and under who commit violent crimes. Because there isnt a large amount of these kids it would only be necessary to have one or two of these facilities in the country. I dont think there should be a time limit on how long they stay there either. That way even though they would be come adults there they would have grown from child to adult in that setting and wouldnt have the outside influence of older criminals. It should be broken into age range with kids being within 2 years of each other in age and being seperated from anyone older then that. Then they should be released when they are truely able to be. While it could be 18 it might be 35 every case should be looked at individually. ok enough rambling for me lol .. I really feel sorry for everyone involved here it seems that everyone including that little boy has lost a tremendous amount

[Peeperann]

I side with the people who say send him to juvie and then at 18 or even 21 transfer him to prison. I don't really care that he's only 11. It's old enough to know better and that kid has that dead, I have no emotions look in his eyes.

If he gets out at 18, I honestly believe that he will kill again and probably women who remind him of step mama.

I know most here will disagree with me, but no matter your argument, it will not change my mind. I honestly believe some people are just born, well, evil for want of a better word.

And before anyone starts the whole, "how can you be sure at 11 he knew"? argument, I can remember being 11 and I knew better, so did all the people I knew. I know some mature faster than others, but 11 is old enough.

And people who are 50 with the mentality of an 11 year, and who commit murder or vicious crimes should be put away forever too in my opinion.............

[LissaLou]

I side with the people who say send him to juvie and then at 18 or even 21 transfer him to prison. I don't really care that he's only 11. It's old enough to know better and that kid has that dead, I have no emotions look in his eyes.

If he gets out at 18, I honestly believe that he will kill again and probably women who remind him of step mama.

I know most here will disagree with me, but no matter your argument, it will not change my mind. I honestly believe some people are just born, well, evil for want of a better word.

And before anyone starts the whole, "how can you be sure at 11 he knew"? argument, I can remember being 11 and I knew better, so did all the people I knew. I know some mature faster than others, but 11 is old enough.

And people who are 50 with the mentality of an 11 year, and who commit murder or vicious crimes should be put away forever too in my opinion.............

This is my thoughts exactly.

[Unamused Cat]

An 11-year-old boy apparently covered his shotgun with a blanket to keep it hidden when he left his bedroom, went downstairs and fatally shot his father's pregnant girlfriend in the head as she slept, a prosecutor said Monday.

The blue blanket, which has a quarter-sized hole that appeared to be singed from a shotgun blast, supports a claim that the crime was premeditated, Lawrence County District Attorney John Bongivengo said.

http://ap.onlineathens.com/pstories/us/20090224/397865208.shtml

I don't want to see this kid let out of juvie jail/prison for a very, very long time. 50-60 works for me.

[Unamused Cat]

Ack, double post.

[piXyNinjette]

an 11 yr old is immature anyway you look at it........
there has to be more to this story than some jealous kid who shoots his soon to be step mom.....

[Peeperann]

an 11 yr old is immature anyway you look at it........
there has to be more to this story than some jealous kid who shoots his soon to be step mom.....

Could be, but as you'll soon learn from hanging here, not always. Sometimes it is just plain jealousy and an evil nature. I know, it's sad to think a kid can think and feel that way.

[ineedanap]

I agree this was a premeditated attack and that the kid should not be released from prison. Ever. I also believe there is probably alot more going on in that household than has been released in the media. Normal 11 yo children don't plan to murder.

[Athena]

I side with the people who say send him to juvie and then at 18 or even 21 transfer him to prison. I don't really care that he's only 11. It's old enough to know better and that kid has that dead, I have no emotions look in his eyes.

If he gets out at 18, I honestly believe that he will kill again and probably women who remind him of step mama.


Problem is, you don't base this belief on a single lick of evidence. You may as well be a snake-handler or fake psychic with the "look in his eyes" and the "some people are just born evil" nonsense. :wink:

The facts of the matter, however, contradict your theory. The overwhelming majority of juveniles who kill get released and don't reoffend, and recidivism largely depends on the relationship between the killer and the victim (http://ncjrs.gov/App/publications/Abstract.aspx?id=166266). For example, a juvenile involved in gangs who killed a complete stranger is more likely to kill again, as he is more likely to fall back into said lifestyle. A kid who kills another kid just for shits and giggles, well they would better fit your "some people are just born evil" bit, and their sociopathic nature makes them more likely to kill than this kid.

I read in one of the many articles about this case a quote from a psychologist about this issue. To paraphrase it, the doctor said, "Overwhelming feelings of jealousy are common in cases like this... We just tend to hope there isn't a gun laying around."

This isn't even about knowing right from wrong. Did he know killing his dad's pregnant girlfriend was wrong? Of course. That's why he tried to lie about it afterward. No - this was about impulsive thinking. Children don't have the self-restraint that adults do. It's why we get a break on our car insurance at 25, just for turning 25. It's not a birthday present - it's because 25 is recognized as the age at which development is done and individuals are much less prone to impulsive thought. The younger you are, the more impulsive your thinking. They can't help that. It's just the way the brain develops.

So, as this kid ages, not only is he unlikely to encounter a situation where he feels brushed aside by his father in favor of new members to the pack, his brain will be developed enough to the point where he's highly unlikely to kill on a whim.

By the way, "but no matter your argument, it will not change my mind"... I'm hoping you were exaggerating to make a point, because there's absolutely nothing respectable about that statement. You don't have to agree with me, per se, but to say that you will not be swayed no matter how much evidence is presented to you? Sounding awfully Bush-like...

[Sarabei]

Her 5 year old daughter found her too. Wonderful. This is so disturbing to me. Why are our children turning into monsters?


I think because as a society we coddle these kids too much. As a society we get into all this psycho babble and what not and do not hold children as a whole responsible for their actions. We don't teach them there are consequences for your actions. instead we say, but they are only ELEVEN, they CAN'T know what they did and what it means. BULLSHIT. I mean in anything, not just this type of crimes. It has nothing to do with both parents having to work, I know plenty who have fantastic children who are wonderful, you don't have to spend 24/7 with a child to instill morals and responsibility in them. Is our justice system perfect? Of course not, but crimes such as this will keep happening until these "kids" are made to face accountability for these types of actions.

[philly_phan]

I dont agree with this child being charged as an adult... he is still a baby pretty much

Disagree...

I do. The kid has been hunting with his dad. He knows that once something is dead it's dead permanently. He mentioned wanting to kill his future step-mom before he did it, so it was premeditated. Then he sneaked up behind and shot her in the back of the head. He was a little coward because he couldn't even face her. He destroyed his own family. He killed his dad's love and killed his new little sibling (2 weeks from birth), which means that he killed his dad's new baby.

I think a few years in jail while undergoing counseling and treatment is exactly what he needs, and I don't think he should be let out until he is proven safe to society.

Agree for the most part. I read this story in my local news yesterday, I was sure someone here would pick it up and post it. They also said the warden at the jail where he is being held is pleading w/ authorities to remove the boy from his jail - he does not have the housing or resources the child needs and worries about his safety.

Counseling and treatment in jail? I know it happens in some cases, but that is not what jail was created for. That will not happen if he is sentenced to prison. Then again, I am not sure what he needs or what will benefit the family, what will serve as punishment...I am on the fence w/ this one. He knows right from wrong and he has to know a rifle blast would KILL his stepmom and his unborn sibling, then again his age deters me from wishing any bad on him...I don't know.

[Sarabei]

an 11 yr old is immature anyway you look at it........
there has to be more to this story than some jealous kid who shoots his soon to be step mom.....

Why? Just because he is ELEVEN? I don't think so, it isn't always molestation or abuse in these situations, some people, which is what this "kid" still is, irregardless of age, just kill.

[Athena]

Her 5 year old daughter found her too. Wonderful. This is so disturbing to me. Why are our children turning into monsters?

Who says our kids are *turning into* monsters? There have been cases of juvenile murderers forever and ever. As you can see, murders committed by juveniles is as roughly the lowest point in 20 years... probably the lowest point in history.

http://ojjdp.ncjrs.gov/ojstatbb/crime/images/qa05202.gif

Source (http://ojjdp.ncjrs.gov/ojstatbb/crime/JAR_Display.asp?ID=qa05202)

These statistics aren't hard to find. It doesn't hurt to be informed before you make a statement.

[MichaelJCheaney]

Problem is, you don't base this belief on a single lick of evidence. You may as well be a snake-handler or fake psychic with the "look in his eyes" and the "some people are just born evil" nonsense. :wink:

The facts of the matter, however, contradict your theory. The overwhelming majority of juveniles who kill get released and don't reoffend, and recidivism largely depends on the relationship between the killer and the victim (http://ncjrs.gov/App/publications/Abstract.aspx?id=166266). For example, a juvenile involved in gangs who killed a complete stranger is more likely to kill again, as he is more likely to fall back into said lifestyle. A kid who kills another kid just for shits and giggles, well they would better fit your "some people are just born evil" bit, and their sociopathic nature makes them more likely to kill than this kid.

I read in one of the many articles about this case a quote from a psychologist about this issue. To paraphrase it, the doctor said, "Overwhelming feelings of jealousy are common in cases like this... We just tend to hope there isn't a gun laying around."

This isn't even about knowing right from wrong. Did he know killing his dad's pregnant girlfriend was wrong? Of course. That's why he tried to lie about it afterward. No - this was about impulsive thinking. Children don't have the self-restraint that adults do. It's why we get a break on our car insurance at 25, just for turning 25. It's not a birthday present - it's because 25 is recognized as the age at which development is done and individuals are much less prone to impulsive thought. The younger you are, the more impulsive your thinking. They can't help that. It's just the way the brain develops.

So, as this kid ages, not only is he unlikely to encounter a situation where he feels brushed aside by his father in favor of new members to the pack, his brain will be developed enough to the point where he's highly unlikely to kill on a whim.

By the way, "but no matter your argument, it will not change my mind"... I'm hoping you were exaggerating to make a point, because there's absolutely nothing respectable about that statement. You don't have to agree with me, per se, but to say that you will not be swayed no matter how much evidence is presented to you? Sounding awfully Bush-like...

Well then how about Lionel Tate.....

He killed at almost the same age, recieved life without, was let out and then went on a robbery spree and is currently sitting in Jail again, doing a 10-30 stint for armed robbery.

What would you have done in his case? I am asking you to play Judge and Jury.

Or how about Mitchell Johnson who was one of the shooters in the Jonesboro Massacre in 1998? He was sentenced as a Juvi, let out at age 21 and resumed his life of crime. And was sent back for 6 years for armed robbery.

Now granted neither of these 2 people have killed again, but the common links that tie them together are killing as Juvi's and upon release have resumed a life of crime.

Does society NOT have a reasonable expectation to be protected from people like this?

Or am I sounding entirely to "Bush Like" to use your term....And should we just send this kid back to live with his dad and HOPE he doesn't resort to a life of crime?

It really seems to me that there is no one right answer in how to approach this, but at the same time these 3 have killed early in thier lives and 2 out of the 3 are sitting in jail.....

[Athena]

Counseling and treatment in jail? I know it happens in some cases, but that is not what jail was created for.

But that's precisely what the juvenile justice system and juvenile detention was created for. Prior to 1886, kids who committed crime were stuck in adult prison, because that's all there was. But, by 1886, science had proven definitively that children are NOT simply little adults, and that they could benefit much more from rehabilitation than many adults, as they were still developing. Since then, science and statistics have done nothing but further substantiate this position.

Frankly, I don't know why we seem to be moving away from that, and charging more and more children as adults. I guess it's because of people like those in this thread who react emotionally with no regard for the purpose of the juvenile justice system and no interest in the science that justifies it.

I mean, who knows what kind of environment this kid was raised in. The fact that this kid had his own gun and had access to its shells doesn't really speak highly about dad's level of intelligence. Add to that the fact that this kid was from a broken home (I knew kids driven absolutely crazy by divorce) and that dad had knocked up a relatively young gal before they were even married...

I don't know if ANY of that speaks to an unhealthy environment, but it certainly doesn't speak to a healthy one.

[PoongyPrincess]

I think it's horrific that they're charging this kid as an adult. It doesn't work both ways, folks - you can't decide that a child is not mentally or emotionally developed enough to exercise the same rights adults have, but can be charged as though he's fully-functioning should he fuck up.

If an adult was described as having the mental capacity of an 11 year old, we'd consider that person retarded, in need of supervision and, should that person commit a crime, it would sure as hell be a mitigating factor. And, do you know WHY mentally handicapped people are commonly described as having the mental capacity of a (insert very specific age here) year old? Because there are pretty specific stages of development associated with age.

Sure, he may know "dead is dead" at 11. But if he was off hunting with dad and even owned his own gun, "dead" may have been too casual a concept for him.

Now, I'm not saying that this kid shouldn't go away for a LONG time. But he should absolutely be in a juvenile facility that focuses on rehabilitation until he's 18, or even 21. We wouldn't treat an adult with a mental age of 11 like any other murderer... we shouldn't do that to this kid, either.

You've made an excellent point. Rehabilitation is exactly what he needs. And I think you've raised an interesting idea: "Does hunting at an early age lessen a child's ability to understand the harm in killing?"

[Sarabei]

I don't know, I think it is because people are tired of these little shits murdering people and being able to resume a normal life at a relatively young age while their victim will never be able to do that nor will the broken families and hearts left behind. A lot of hunting dads expose their kids to guns at a very young age. Does that make it right? No, but then most of them don't decide to kill their sibling and step mom either. I grew up around guns and was taught at an early age how to handle them and to respect them. I certainly never pointed a gun at someone and thought about killing them...at ANY age.

[Sarabei]

You've made an excellent point. Rehabilitation is exactly what he needs. And I think you've raised an interesting idea: "Does hunting at an early age lessen a child's ability to understand the harm in killing?"

I would personally think it would heighten it. Some kids are taken hunting, realize that this is a life, a living breathing spirit and being that they are killing and can never hunt again, others respect the life taken but still hunt, and yet others revel in the killing. I personally don't agree with hunting, but most hunters, REAL hunters, place a value on the life they are taking and respect the animal, and use it for food, not sport. I think how the child learns these lessons in hunting and death all depends on how they are taught to view it.

[Athena]

Well then how about Lionel Tate.....

He killed at almost the same age, recieved life without, was let out and then went on a robbery spree and is currently sitting in Jail again, doing a 10-30 stint for armed robbery.

What would you have done in his case? I am asking you to play Judge and Jury.

Or how about Mitchell Johnson who was one of the shooters in the Jonesboro Massacre in 1998? He was sentenced as a Juvi, let out at age 21 and resumed his life of crime. And was sent back for 6 years for armed robbery.

Now granted neither of these 2 people have killed again, but the common links that tie them together are killing as Juvi's and upon release have resumed a life of crime.

Does society NOT have a reasonable expectation to be protected from people like this?

Do you really expect me to take you seriously when you use a few individual exceptions to the rule to combat a mountain of evidence that says, again, the OVERWHELMING majority of juvenile murderers don't re-offend? And we're not even talking just murder. Most of these kids go on to be productive members of society who don't reoffend in any serious manner.

Mr. Cheaney, there will ALWAYS be exceptions. But unless you work for NASA, you don't create your standards around the exceptional cases. We've already got the highest incarceration rate AND number in the world. We've created the system to save who we believe can still be saved. Statistically, this kid is one of those.

Or am I sounding entirely to "Bush Like" to use your term....And should we just send this kid back to live with his dad and HOPE he doesn't resort to a life of crime?


I don't have time for strawman arguments, dude. Did I say we should just send this kid home to dad? No? Alright, then.

[PoongyPrincess]

A lot of hunting dads expose their kids to guns at a very young age. Does that make it right? No, but then most of them don't decide to kill their sibling and step mom either. I grew up around guns and was taught at an early age how to handle them and to respect them. I certainly never pointed a gun at someone and thought about killing them...at ANY age.

I got a single-shot .22 rifle for my 9th Xmas. I was only allowed to use it while I was with my dad down at our shooting range. Every single time I so much as glanced at it, I got a reminder from him about how to safely handle a gun. I also never once thought about pointing it at a person.

[silvahalo68]

"He actually told my son that he wanted to do that to her," said Houk's brother-in-law, Jason Kraner. "There was an issue with jealousy.

Mixed families, its tough. The jealousy issues are very real and can go way past simply rivalry with children. I bet he targeted his father's fiance because of the baby she was carrying. She was going to have a boy, his dad was going to get a "new" son. I think the show of excitement and unheeded jealousy that must have been evident, but ignored, put him over.

What this child did was a terrible, vicious, heinous act. No doubt. But I don't see it fit that he goes to an adult prison. We need to be responsible for all children in our society, even more so, those who commit terrible crimes. This child will someday be leading a life out of prison, and once again have access to doing great harm. He needs help....serious help. I believe he should be put in Juvie until 18 then moved to prison. All the while, he must get the psychological help he needs, otherwise, you can bet, he will do something again. At the age of 11 he knows right from wrong, but he wouldn't fully grasp the concept of his consequences and be able to deal with his emotions on an adult level. This in no way means I don't think he deserves punishment. Absolutely, he does.

I'm against children using and having access to guns. I agree, this child would have used another weapon of sorts to act out his fury. Still, the gun was easily available not only to him, but the other younger children. Children are far too emotional and impulsive, they have no business being around a loaded fire arm. I was raised with one in my home, and its little wonder no one got shot or killed....seriously, I'm amazed by that. A family with any dysfunctional issues, are just asking for trouble with an easy access, loaded weapon. Not the gun itself is the issue but any weapon easily accessible that I take issue with.

What breaks my heart the most is the aftermath. The child who found her mama dead, and the one who saw her brother with the gun and heard the gun shot, well, they will simply never be the same again. A family torn apart completely. Up to that point, the children would remember a rather typical family, now its just a nightmare they can never really wake from. My deepest sympathies to the family and friends. They will need a lot of love, comfort and understanding to get to a place of healing.

Rest in peace Kenzie and baby Christopher....so very sorry, your life ended so violently and by the hand of a child.

http://i38.tinypic.com/567ir.jpghttp://i510.photobucket.com/albums/s341/silvahalo68/Angels/CuteAngelBabySleepingOnACloud.jpg

[Athena]

You've made an excellent point. Rehabilitation is exactly what he needs. And I think you've raised an interesting idea: "Does hunting at an early age lessen a child's ability to understand the harm in killing?"

As a child who went hunting at an early age (9, and it was archery hunting, and I did not have my own bow and arrow, nor did I have access to one while unsupervised), I would say that, while it didn't necessarily lessen or increase my ability to understand, it definitely made it easier as time went on. Not that I ran around killing things, now.

Prior to going hunting, my family can tell you, I was fairly sensitive to the idea of killing. In fact, my grandma still has a picture I drew for my grandpa when I was 7 of a mom deer and two baby deers looking all Bambi-like among the mist in the forest. I presented it to my grandpa with the expressed purpose of getting him to rethink sport hunting. I was a little Buddhist, saving animals where I could, sketchy about eating meat once I knew the circumstances under which it was harvested, etc.

After I went hunting, and I saw the men in my family gut elk, all bets were off. The act of killing became a much more casual concept, for me. It wasn't shrouded in mystery and reserved for warriors... any ol' bloke could do it. Even my 9 year old little kid ass. I remember being excited as I shared the gory details with my friends... excited by the way they squirmed. To them, it was still a big deal. To me, it was just a fact of life.

But that's just my experience. I'd be hesitant to project that on this little kid.

Edit: I'd also like to point out that there's a big ol' whoppin' difference between being "raised around guns" and being given your own shotgun and shells to hang on to.

[MichaelJCheaney]

Do you really expect me to take you seriously when you use a few individual exceptions to the rule to combat a mountain of evidence that says, again, the OVERWHELMING majority of juvenile murderers don't re-offend? And we're not even talking just murder. Most of these kids go on to be productive members of society who don't reoffend in any serious manner.

Mr. Cheaney, there will ALWAYS be exceptions. But unless you work for NASA, you don't create your standards around the exceptional cases. We've already got the highest incarceration rate AND number in the world. We've created the system to save who we believe can still be saved. Statistically, this kid is one of those.



I don't have time for strawman arguments, dude. Did I say we should just send this kid home to dad? No? Alright, then.

Do you really expect me to take YOU seriously when you say that the Statistics prove that the overwhelming majority of juvenile murderer don't re-offend but don't any examples?

Yes I did say that my examples were cases where they did not go back to prison for murder.....but they did go back for other crimes.

And that is the part of the bigger picture that needs to be focused on...And as I said earlier I am asking you to be the Judge and Juror, what is it that you would do?

Would you put him in Juvi and have him undergo relationship counseling? How do you at least minimize the risk of him being a productive member of society when he gets out?

That is the issue here.

[Sarabei]

As a child who went hunting at an early age (9, and it was archery hunting, and I did not have my own bow and arrow, nor did I have access to one while unsupervised), I would say that, while it didn't necessarily lessen or increase my ability to understand, it definitely made it easier as time went on. Not that I ran around killing things, now.

Prior to going hunting, my family can tell you, I was fairly sensitive to the idea of killing. In fact, my grandma still has a picture I drew for my grandpa when I was 7 of a mom deer and two baby deers looking all Bambi-like among the mist in the forest. I presented it to my grandpa with the expressed purpose of getting him to rethink sport hunting. I was a little Buddhist, saving animals where I could, sketchy about eating meat once I knew the circumstances under which it was harvested, etc.

After I went hunting, and I saw the men in my family gut elk, all bets were off. The act of killing became a much more casual concept, for me. It wasn't shrouded in mystery and reserved for warriors... any ol' bloke could do it. Even my 9 year old little kid ass. I remember being excited as I shared the gory details with my friends... excited by the way they squirmed. To them, it was still a big deal. To me, it was just a fact of life.

But that's just my experience. I'd be hesitant to project that on this little kid.

Edit: I'd also like to point out that there's a big ol' whoppin' difference between being "raised around guns" and being given your own shotgun and shells to hang on to.

I had access to several 22s, a 38 special, AND shotguns including the ammo as well as being taken target practicing and handling all these types of guns. They were not locked up and had one been mine personally, they could not have been more accessible as it would have been with the ones I could already lay hands on at anytime I chose, so there really isn't a "big ol whoppin" difference in my case.

[silvahalo68]

I don't know, I think it is because people are tired of these little shits murdering people and being able to resume a normal life at a relatively young age while their victim will never be able to do that nor will the broken families and hearts left behind. A lot of hunting dads expose their kids to guns at a very young age. Does that make it right? No, but then most of them don't decide to kill their sibling and step mom either. I grew up around guns and was taught at an early age how to handle them and to respect them. I certainly never pointed a gun at someone and thought about killing them...at ANY age.

Sarabei, I totally understand your outcry. I too feel utter revulsion and complete disgust over these types of killings. I just think as a responsible society, we should be more interested in why our children are turning into murders at such a young age, and why on God's green earth would a child of 11even think, much less commit such a heinous crime.

This is the hard part....really, really hard part. The idea that this young mother and her unborn baby were killed just devastates me. And had it been my family, I would have a hard time looking past the horror. Still, I think this child, as disturbed as he is, and I'm not convinced he's just "evil", we need some answers here. There are a lot of children out there, far too many living in less then desirable family situations. I want to know how to identify a child who is seriously mentally ill vs. a child that has been groomed to react violently. I'm not saying on either account this is the case with this child. I'm more inclined to believe he was predisposed to act out violently then given the proper variables, he was going to explode. And he did.

Looking at his pictures is just not enough for me to call him evil or just plain bad. He looks scared shitless and he should be. His life is gone. No matter what is done with him, his life is over and because of his dark and terrible actions, he will never have a normal life.

[RaVen Blackehart]

It sounds to me like an premeditated act. He killed her while she was sleeping, mentioned to a cousin that he wanted to do this, and hid the gun under a blanket.

Bottom line, I personally do not want this boy freely roaming around in public, ever. He has it in him at this young age to do such a thing and go to school like nothing happened, and lie for a few hours to LE about it.

What is he going to be capable of as an adult? Will more people have to die in the future because some wanted to "give him a chance"? And then look back and regret giving him that chance. I say act on the side of caution.

[PoongyPrincess]

The concept of people "just being born evil" is, I think, more of a religious concept than one based in reality. I agree with John Locke's view that babies are born with a mind like a blank slate, that it is a person's experiences over their lifetime that mold them into who they are and how they think.

Saying that some people are just born evil is a cop-out. It allows society to just wash their hands of the actual causes behind crimes of all natures. It leaves open the mentality of it doesn't matter how kids are treated or what values parents instill in them because they still would have become a criminal.

[Athena]

Do you really expect me to take YOU seriously when you say that the Statistics prove that the overwhelming majority of juvenile murderer don't re-offend but don't any examples?

I linked to the abstract of a study found on a U.S. Department of Justice website. Here's the specific information I was referencing:

By the end of 1993, 27 of the 113 had been reconvicted of a grave offense, recalled, or given a further life sentence; this is a comparatively low rate of reconviction. Three factors are likely to affect the reconviction of children who kill: (1) the number of convictions which the offender had prior to the conviction for homicide; (2) the nature of the offense, in particular the relationship between victim and offender; and (3) the nature of the help offered. It is right to detain young people who have killed for as long as authorities consider that there is a danger of their committing another serious offense. But all of the indications are that very few of them would do so.

Yes I did say that my examples were cases where they did not go back to prison for murder.....but they did go back for other crimes.

And I did say that the abstract I linked to said that most juvenile murders don't go back for ANY serious offense.

And that is the part of the bigger picture that needs to be focused on...And as I said earlier I am asking you to be the Judge and Juror, what is it that you would do?

Would you put him in Juvi and have him undergo relationship counseling? How do you at least minimize the risk of him being a productive member of society when he gets out?

That is the issue here.

I would have it entirely handled by the juvenile system. Sentence him to a maximum sentence, give him access to education and rehabilitation, monitor his progress and release him when there's a reasonable level of confidence established that he will not reoffend.

The studies done on this issue (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/juvenile/stats/kidslikeadults.html) suggest that sentencing juveniles as adults actually increases recidivism:

Two recent large-scale studies indicate that juveniles who receive harsher penalties when tried as adults are not "scared straight." In fact, after their release, they tend to reoffend sooner and more often than those treated in the juvenile system.

A 1996 Florida study authored by Northeastern University researcher Donna Bishop also found that juveniles transferred to the criminal system were not less likely to reoffend, but in fact often had higher rates of recidivism. This research compared the recidivism rates of 2,738 juvenile offenders transferred to criminal court in Florida with a matched sample of nontransferred juveniles. Bishop and her colleagues found that although juveniles tried as adults were more likely to be incarcerated, and incarcerated for longer than those who remained in the juvenile system, they also had a higher recidivism rate. Within two years, they were more likely to reoffend, to reoffend earlier, to commit more subsequent offenses, and to commit more serious subsequent offenses than juveniles retained in the juvenile system. The authors concluded that:

"The findings suggest that transfer made little difference in deterring youths from reoffending. Adult processing of youths in criminal court actually increases recidivism rather than [having] any incapacitative effects on crime control and community protection."[7]

Sentencing children as adults is counter-productive, especially when they're this young.

[silvahalo68]

The concept of people "just being born evil" is, I think, more of a religious concept than one based in reality. I agree with John Locke's view that babies are born with a mind like a blank slate, that it is a person's experiences over their lifetime that mold them into who they are and how they think.

Saying that some people are just born evil is a cop-out. It allows society to just wash their hands of the actual causes behind crimes of all natures. It leaves open the mentality of it doesn't matter how kids are treated or what values parents instill in them because they still would have become a criminal.

Agree Poongy, I use the term "evil" when my sensibilities are just overwhelmed. Otherwise, its just silly to think one is born evil. Although, it is understood that some are born predisposed to evil like acts. Given the right circumstances, and flip the switch, there they go, all evil like.

[RaVen Blackehart]

An 11-year-old boy accused of killing his father's pregnant fiance had been making threats about harming the woman for a while, the woman's mother said Tuesday.

Debbie Houk said Jordan Brown often gave 26-year-old Kenzie Marie Houk a hard time, especially when his father wasn't around. Brown and his dad Christopher lived with Houk and her two small daughters in a farmhouse in the rural western Pennsylvania town of Wampum.

"It's been at least two months that he's made the threats," Debbie Houk said, adding that Jordan "just bucked her (Kenzie) a lot when his Dad wasn't around."

"Chris was good about it. He tried. He told him, 'Don't you ever disrespect her,'" Debbie Houk added.

Jordan Brown was charged as an adult Saturday with killing Houk and her unborn baby boy the day before as she lay in her bed.

Authorities believe the killing was premeditated. They say Brown came downstairs with two guns, but returned upstairs after Houk's 7-year-old daughter saw him; they believe he then hid the gun in a blanket and came back downstairs to Houk's bedroom and shot her in the back of the head.

Later, the 7-year-old girl told police she saw the boy drop something on the ground from his pocket before they got on the bus. Police said they found a spent shotgun shell in the same spot.

On Monday, Jason Kraner, Kenzie's brother-in-law, told several reporters the boy also told his son he wanted to kill Kenzie and her daughters.

"Jordan had told (my son around Christmas) he was going to pop Kenzie in the head and pop both kids. We didn't believe it. ... We told Chris and Kenzie and they didn't believe it," Kraner said.

A funeral for Houk and her baby boy, who was named Christopher after his father, was planned for Tuesday evening.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jfUUCNd8ljeuLU4Qr3BF_5pwHXlwD96I2R300

11-year-old murder suspect’s case similar to one decades ago

“Untutored and ignorant, his mind distorted by sensational ‘movies’ the child evidently thought that he was emulating the deeds of some of his ‘bad men heroes’ when he shot his mother.”

The Daily Times newspaper of Beaver from Jan. 17, 1913, describing the possible motives of 11-year-old murderer Leroy Haggins.

Lawrence County District Attorney John Bongivengo isn’t the first local prosecutor to struggle over the prospect of dealing with an 11-year-old boy accused of premeditated murder.

The case of Jordan Brown, 11, accused in last week’s shotgun slaying of his father’s pregnant girlfriend, is strikingly similar to another murder that occurred in Beaver County 96 years ago.

Like the Brown case near Wampum, the murder of Mary Elizabeth Haggins, 39, of Monaca on Jan. 13, 1913, sent shock waves through western Pennsylvania.

Her 11-year-old son, Leroy, was accused of killing her with a shotgun blast to the neck at the family home in Monaca Heights after his mother refused to give him 5 cents to buy candy.

Similarities in the two cases are haunting.

A shotgun was used in both crimes, which occurred around the same time of year. In both cases, the authorities struggled over how to proceed against the young suspects.

Lawrence County Jail Warden Charles Adamo, like Beaver County Sheriff Marvin Wallover 96 years ago, has doubts about keeping an 11-year-old in the county jail.

Adamo has asked Lawrence County Court to move Brown from the jail to a juvenile detention facility because the jail doesn’t have proper facilities to separate Brown from adult inmates.

In 1913, Wallover, who doubled as the jail warden, had the same problem. He refused to take Haggins. The sheriff said state law prevented him from permitting prisoners younger than 16 to have contact with adult inmates, and he had no special cell at the jail to isolate Haggins from the other inmates.

As a result, Beaver County Judge Richard S. Holt ordered Haggins to be held in the Morganza juvenile detention center near Canonsburg.

Both cases also have similar characteristics of cold-blooded murder.

Police have accused Brown of shooting Kenzie Marie Houk, with whom he and his father lived, in the back of the head as she lay in bed.

According to newspaper accounts from 1913, Haggins, whom witnesses and the authorities described as an incorrigible youth corrupted by motion picture crime dramas and “story books in which evil passions predominate,” calmly shot his mother in front of his 13-year-old brother while she was making a bed.

Afterward, he went outside and fired a shot into an exterior wall in an attempt to make police believe the murder was a random act committed by a “foreigner,” a term then commonly used to describe immigrants.

The boy gathered his siblings — Adolphus, whom the newspapers described as having a “feeble mind,” and younger sisters Nettie and Elsie — and instructed them to inform police that a foreigner had killed their mother.


http://www.timesonline.com/articles/2009/02/24/news/doc49a329325c06b074221555.txt

[Morbid]

Im gonna front page this one

[Athena]

I had access to several 22s, a 38 special, AND shotguns including the ammo as well as being taken target practicing and handling all these types of guns. They were not locked up and had one been mine personally, they could not have been more accessible as it would have been with the ones I could already lay hands on at anytime I chose, so there really isn't a "big ol whoppin" difference in my case.

Sorry, I didn't want to assume that your parents were as blatantly irresponsible as this kid's dad was. Little kids with access to guns is NEVER a good idea.

The concept of people "just being born evil" is, I think, more of a religious concept than one based in reality. I agree with John Locke's view that babies are born with a mind like a blank slate, that it is a person's experiences over their lifetime that mold them into who they are and how they think.

I agree that it's a cop out to blame an "inherent evil nature", but I can't really adhere to the "blank slate" concept. Behavioral genetics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioral_genetics#Contemporary_behavioural_genet ics) is an ever-increasing field that works to determine just how much of our behavior is inherited. Much like a switchboard, environment only determines which switches get flipped, not what the switches control to begin with.

[ineedanap]

and her unborn baby boy

I was wondering when they were going to release the gender of the baby. Maybe this is the reason for the jealousy?

[Sarabei]

Sorry, I didn't want to assume that your parents were as blatantly irresponsible as this kid's dad was. Little kids with access to guns is NEVER a good idea.



I agree that it's a cop out to blame an "inherent evil nature", but I can't really adhere to the "blank slate" concept. Behavioral genetics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioral_genetics#Contemporary_behavioural_genet ics) is an ever-increasing field that works to determine just how much of our behavior is inherited. Much like a switchboard, environment only determines which switches get flipped, not what the switches control to begin with.

Totally agree, responsible parents should NEVER let a child have access to guns, let alone be able to fire them, as I was. I admit, the laws were not as stringent then as now, but irregardless, it WAS extremely irresponsible.

I also don't subscribe to the blank slate, but I do think some are predisposed to mental (sociopath, etc.) that can cause this type of behavior.

[Peeperann]

Ok Athena, I need you either to post statistics or point me in the direction of the webpages where you got them. Regardless, i'm still firmly on the side of locking him up forever.

I will read your stats and see if I could change my mind, but I doubt it. Pretty much everyone knows i'm an advocate for children. But really a doctor said "We just hope in these cases, there's no guns laying around"? Come on!

[Athena]

Ok Athena, I need you either to post statistics or point me in the direction of the webpages where you got them. Regardless, i'm still firmly on the side of locking him up forever.

I've linked to every resource I've drawn from. I usually do. :happy:

I will read your stats and see if I could change my mind, but I doubt it. Pretty much everyone knows i'm an advocate for children. But really a doctor said "We just hope in these cases, there's no guns laying around"? Come on!

Absolutely! There are all SORTS of stories of children's awful reactions to jealousy. Usually, they beat up their siblings or act out in school, but if more kids had their own shotguns, more kids would be murderers.

Now, nothing I say is in an attempt to excuse what he did - I just think it's too early to condemn him for eternity.

[Abroad]

I mostly agree with Athena, but I would offer one possible additional reason for the higher rates of recidivism for children punished as adults: The children singled out for this sort of punishment might be the children that were "badder" from the start?

In most cases there would be a reason they were charged as adults rather than in the juvenile system, yes? And this reason would usually have something to do with the nature of the crime, yes? So maybe the crimes they were originally punished for were somehow "worse" in the first place and a symptom of they themselves being "worse" than the children punished as juveniles before either group were punished?

[ohmarvellousme!]

The photo of that boy reminds me of Robert Thompson, one of James Bulgers 10yr old killers here in the UK. They were tried in an adult court, but served their sentence in a 'secure unit'. They never saw the inside of an adult jail.

Anyhoo, I think the suggestion put forward that he be contained in a juvenile facility, and then be moved to jail at 18 is probably the best way to go. It definately sounds like he is a very disturbed kid, and a very cold and calculating one too.

[Tazzzz]

and her unborn baby boy

I was wondering when they were going to release the gender of the baby. Maybe this is the reason for the jealousy?


Yeah, problem is he was the only boy and had dad all to himself for a while then in comes a new girlfriend and 2 younger female kids. Now he has to share dad with them. Then the girlfriend becomes pregnant and the decide to name the new boy after the dad. Thats pretty threatening to Jason. I can see why it upset him, and his life was in a downward spiral. Dad would be spending less and less time with him. and even less after the baby was born.
He just wanted it to go back to the way it used to be.

Not making excuses for the boy or justifying his behavior. Just saying I could understand his anger, but not what he did with it. What a shame no one took his threats serriously and got help for him before he went postal.


A funeral for Houk and her baby boy, who was named Christopher after his father, was planned for Tuesday evening.

[silvahalo68]

Ok Athena, I need you either to post statistics or point me in the direction of the webpages where you got them. Regardless, i'm still firmly on the side of locking him up forever.

I will read your stats and see if I could change my mind, but I doubt it. Pretty much everyone knows i'm an advocate for children. But really a doctor said "We just hope in these cases, there's no guns laying around"? Come on!

Peep, you know I'm a very strong advocate for children too. I guess my scope on things is about society and our responsibility to children in general. The obvious wrong and rights and the not so obvious and far more difficult judgments to ascertain. It's tough all the way around. We want so desperately for our children to live happy, complete, loving lives, and protect them from harm. But when the harm comes from a child, then what? I think this is when we are truly tested and must take care how we go about righting the wrongs, if that indeed is even possible.

Know that I totally respect your opinions and understand your outrage, you know me, I'm ready to wield my sword for crying out load! Seriously, I feel very much the way you do. But for me, it is too easy, far more comfortable for me to fall in the way of judging without thinking something through on all sides. I run high on my emotions and certainly am biased when it comes to children and crimes involving them.

[ohmarvellousme!]

"A funeral for Houk and her baby boy, who was named Christopher after his father, was planned for Tuesday evening."

I wonder if the baby was going to be named Christopher anyway, or if maybe they hadn't decided on a name (maybe they didnt even know the sex until after the deaths) and so gave him his dads name for the headstone?

This is just such a sad story.

[Athena]

I mostly agree with Athena, but I would offer one possible additional reason for the higher rates of recidivism for children punished as adults: The children singled out for this sort of punishment might be the children that were "badder" from the start?

In most cases there would be a reason they were charged as adults rather than in the juvenile system, yes? And this reason would usually have something to do with the nature of the crime, yes? So maybe the crimes they were originally punished for were somehow "worse" in the first place and a symptom of they themselves being "worse" than the children punished as juveniles before either group were punished?

They used the term "matched sample" in the synopsys, suggesting to me that the criminals in each sample were guilty of crimes of comparable magnitude. It's something that I would imagine they would have adjusted for, otherwise, as that would have been a gaping hole in their conclusion.

If I were to postulate, I would say that these individuals have higher recidivism rates and commit more serious crimes after being through the adult system because they are exposed to more hardened criminals and have limited (if any) access to education and rehabilitation.

[PoongyPrincess]

Sorry, I didn't want to assume that your parents were as blatantly irresponsible as this kid's dad was. Little kids with access to guns is NEVER a good idea.



I agree that it's a cop out to blame an "inherent evil nature", but I can't really adhere to the "blank slate" concept. Behavioral genetics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioral_genetics#Contemporary_behavioural_genet ics) is an ever-increasing field that works to determine just how much of our behavior is inherited. Much like a switchboard, environment only determines which switches get flipped, not what the switches control to begin with.

thanks for the link! :hello:

[Ninja0980]

Actually a high number of kids charged as adults had NEVER been in trouble before. Florida tried about 7,000 kids as adults each year.
Am I suggesting the juvenile system is perfect? No, but we don't want to take the time to invest in juvenile programs that could help a majority of these troubled kids.
Instead we go with the idea that adult time for adult crime will deter kids, make society safer and make thse kids productive citizens. A study done a few years ago in Florida paired up kids charged with similiar crimes, simliar backgrounds etc found that not only did kids tried in adult courts reoffend faster but do crimes worse than what they orginally went in for.
I'm sorry, this case is horrible and the boy should be locked up until he's 21 but he ISN'T an adult. He can't vote, drink, smoke, or sign documents. If he goes to an adult prison he'll still have to get permission to be on medication.
The fact he wants to go home tells it all. Yes he may have carried it out but I'm betting he was thinking things would go back to the way they were before. That is the thinking of a child and us sending an 11 year old to prison for life in my option is almost as barbaric as the murder he committed.

[Special2bme]

http://i359.photobucket.com/albums/oo35/Special2bme/18778754_240X180.jpgNEW CASTLE, Pa. -- Hundreds stood in the cold, some for hours, in New Castle Tuesday evening, waiting to pay their respects to a young mother shot and killed in her sleep and her unborn son.

An 11-year-old boy accused of fatally shooting his father's pregnant girlfriend in their Lawrence County home remained held without bail in an adult lockup, but he will soon move to a juvenile facility.

The boy has been in jail since Saturday morning, when state police filed an adult charge of homicide in connection with the death of 26-year-old Kenzie Houk in Wampum.

Houk's open casket lay next to her son, Christopher, who died in her womb, in a closed casket at her feet, WTAE Channel 4's Shannon Perrine reported.

"To know that we're not going to ever see her again because of an act ... That's still beyond me," said Willard Houk, the victim's uncle. "We tried to make him part of the family (and) we know Kenzie did too, but there must have been some issues that we didn't know was there."

At the funeral home, the 11-year-old suspect's father, Chris Brown, arrived earlier in the day to say goodbye to his girlfriend and his unborn son. He plans to visit his son Wednesday.

11-Year-Old To Move To Juvenile Facility

Jordan Anthony Brown awaits a Monday bond hearing, he will be held at Allencrest Juvenile Detention Center in Beaver instead of the Lawrence County Jail, WTAE Channel 4's Sheldon Ingram reported.
http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/news/18784081/detail.html

[PoongyPrincess]

The little boy wants to go home, but even if he could, how would his dad and his step-siblings react to him. Just for his own safety he should probably stay in juvie.

[Peeperann]

The concept of people "just being born evil" is, I think, more of a religious concept than one based in reality

I only used the phrase "born evil for lack of a better word". I couldn't think of a better term at the time. I still can't as i'm hopped up on pain meds from the dentist.

But, I do think that some are born without a concience. Maybe that's a better term. They are not taught to care about others, or just are unable to care. I don't know, but it scares me shitless to think he could get out in 7 years or less. Not everyone can be rehabilitated. Maybe he can, but I always doubt that someone who can do something like this at such a young age, will not have it in him to do worse when they are adults.

[Sarabei]

I am sure every criminal wants to "go home". I bet Casey wants to go home, doesn't mean they should be allowed to. I am sorry, this person should NOT be released when they are 21. He STOLE two lives and destroyed how many families? At 21 he can still live most of his life, he will still be young, why should HE get to do that when Kenzie and Christopher won't? When her own young children must live without their mother and for what? Jealousy?? I too can understand the feelings of jealousy and anger, but for the thought to be MURDER as a way of dealing with it? Nuh uh. Don't buy it and never will.

[Jaded]

This one is now up front...

http://www.dreamindemon.com/2009/02/25/jordan-brown-11-shot-and-killed-kenzie/

[RaVen Blackehart]

This one is now up front...

http://www.dreamindemon.com/2009/02/25/jordan-brown-11-shot-and-killed-kenzie/

Great write up of it, SJ.

[VOoDOo]

Well.... something must be messed up with the kid and it definitely ain't because he is 'immune' to seeing death because he hunted. The norm is the root of every bad kid is a bad parent or a poor family structure. But all in all.... when I was 11 years old... I definitely knew it was bad and a crime to walk up to someone sleeping, stick a shotgun to the back of their head and pull the trigger thus killing them. Time for people to be responsible for their actions... even if you are 11 years old.

[HijabiGirl]

While I do not think children are born evil, I do think humanity must be instilled in them by being rasied a certain way. Children are ego centric and empathy does not come naturally. Just put a bunch of toddlers in a room with no adults to control them and time how long before they go the way of Lord of the Flies.

Small children hit, bite, kick, and snatch toys. The only thing they feel bad about is if they are caught and made to apologize or return said snatchery. I was a very sensitive child and would cry at the drop of a hat. However, I remember also being very cold and mean if I felt "wronged." It took a long time for me to think about situations from anyone but my own prespective.

I think this boy is developmentally past the point of toddler thinking but still has the lack of humanity that toddlers tend to display. So basically this is a sociopath....not in the making...ladies and gentlemen he has arrived. We can look at stats and mull over whether or not to "fix him" but the fact is...those two people are not just statistics...they are gone forever. And this boy very cunningly and premeditatively mudered these two people.

For those who want to give him a second chance, fine, he moves in with you after the rehabilitation and release.

[Abroad]

Thanks, Athena

Should have read more of it before I stuck my oar in. If it was a matched sample they will have considered what I said and tried to adjust for it, though that must be quite a challenge. It certainly increases the likelihood that it is the adult system that made the difference.

[Peeperann]

While I do not think children are born evil, I do think humanity must be instilled in them by being rasied a certain way. Children are ego centric and empathy does not come naturally. Just put a bunch of toddlers in a room with no adults to control them and time how long before they go the way of Lord of the Flies.

Like I said, I used "evil" for lack of a better word. And some children are born with inherent sympathy and compassion. My oldest grandson, he's almost 6 has been the most compassionte and empathy filled child i've ever known. So they can be born that way.

Now some of my other grandchildren, totally egocentric. Until they started getting older and were taught empathy and compassion. So all children are different just like adults. But I just believe if you're capable of something like this, you should never get out. Whether a child or adult.

[Abroad]

"We tried to make him part of the family (and) we know Kenzie did too, but there must have been some issues that we didn't know was there."

Nothing so far on the boy's bio-mother..... Do we know why she and the father are no longer together? Death? Divorce? Does he/did he see her regularly? If she is still alive, what was her attitude to the father's new girlfriend? Good? Bad? Indifferent? And how does she feel about what happened, if she is still around to know?

These are the questions that have been occurring to me in this case.......

[Special2bme]

BRIGHTON TWP. — Beaver County deputies will guard the county’s Allencrest Juvenile Detention Center in Brighton Township 24 hours a day to protect the 11-year-old Lawrence County boy being held there for allegedly killing his father’s pregnant fiancee last week.

“We’ll have constant coverage there just in case there was some type of security issue there from the outside,” county solicitor Myron Sainovich said. “Those deputies will be assigned to perimeter patrols.”

A county deputy guards the entrance to Allencrest during the day, and Lawrence County won’t be asked to pay for that coverage. With Jordan Brown now being held in the facility, though, Sainovich said county officials determined it was “better off being safe than sorry” and decided to expand security.

The security coverage from 4:30 p.m. to 8:30 a.m. will be included in a proposed agreement Beaver County will send to Lawrence County today, Sainovich said. Beaver County will be seeking $300 per day for housing and expenses for security related to Brown, who arrived Wednesday morning.

Sainovich said deputies on normal overnight duty will provide backup and Brighton Township police will also respond to any emergencies. Sainovich said he was speaking for Sheriff George David and Allencrest Director Bob Rose, neither of whom returned calls.

County officials considered possible threats to Brown, who was moved to Allencrest from the Lawrence County Jail. Lawrence officials said their jail was not equipped to care for the boy, and the county has no juvenile detention facility.

Sainovich said Brown is “being watched all the time” by Allencrest employees.

Brown has been charged as an adult with criminal homicide and criminal homicide of an unborn child in the death of Kenzie Houk, 26, and her unborn son in New Beaver on Friday.

http://timesonline.com/articles/2009/02/26/news/doc49a60feda7f4a865211977.txt

[Special2bme]

PITTSBURGH (AP) — An 11-year-old western Pennsylvania boy accused of killing his father's pregnant fiancee may be moved back to a regular jail.

http://www.pottsmerc.com/articles/2009/02/27/news/doc49a7f7048f492926727216.txt


PITTSBURGH -- An 11-year-old boy accused of killing his father's pregnant fiancee may be moved back to a regular jail.

Jordan Brown is charged with killing 26-year-old Kenzie Marie Houk and her unborn son.

Brown was moved to Allencrest Juvenile Detention Center on Wednesday after a judge ruled the facility could better meet his needs. The facility is in Beaver County, which neighbors Lawrence County where the murder occurred.

Beaver County solicitor Myron Sainovich said it will cost about $4,500 a week to keep Brown in the juvenile center.

He said the county wants to move Brown to an isolated area of the Beaver County Jail at a cost of about $1,400 a week. Sainovich said at least four juveniles have been housed at the jail.
http://www.wpxi.com/news/18809686/detail.html

This makes no sense they need to leave him in juvenile

[Unamused Cat]

I bet the other kids are threatening to whup his ass.

[Abroad]

I bet the other kids are threatening to whup his ass.

Is there a safe place to keep him until trial anywhere?

Whatever they do, it is going to cost them a mint to keep him in one piece, but that is the price we pay for having a justice system. I would rather he was in the juvenile facility than adult gaol......

[Special2bme]

Is there a safe place to keep him until trial anywhere?

Whatever they do, it is going to cost them a mint to keep him in one piece, but that is the price we pay for having a justice system. I would rather he was in the juvenile facility than adult gaol......

That's was I was wondering that he wasn't safe at either place.

BRIGHTON TWP. — Jordan Brown likely will stay put, at least for the weekend.

The 11-year-old Lawrence County homicide suspect, who has been in Allencrest Juvenile Detention Center in Brighton Township, won’t be going to the Beaver County Jail or anywhere else until Lawrence County officials check out some alternatives.

Lawrence County District Attorney John Bongivengo said Friday that secure juvenile facilities in Erie and Westmoreland County are being considered.

“We’re seeing if we can find the equivalent (to Allencrest) without the cost,” he said.

The boy was moved to the Brighton facility Wednesday, and round-the-clock patrols are being conducted by a deputy sheriff. Normally, a deputy sheriff has been stationed at the facility during the day, but night patrols were not conducted.

The price tag for the increased security would cost Lawrence County, which is responsible for paying for the boy’s lodging, $4,500 a week. Beaver County officials proposed moving him to the Beaver County Jail, where he would be isolated from adults. That move would cost Lawrence County $1,400 a week.
http://timesonline.com/articles/2009/02/28/news/doc49a8a38bd5397962813779.txt

[RaVen Blackehart]

http://i44.tinypic.com/zm0cvn.jpg

Good student. Starting quarterback. Aspiring hunter. By most accounts, 11-year-old Jordan Brown was a typical boy in his rural Pennsylvania community, albeit raised mostly by his father after his mother gave him up.

So it baffles Jordan's friends and neighbors that he is accused of taking a 20-gauge youth shotgun he got from his father for Christmas and fatally shooting his father's pregnant fiancee, the woman who tried hardest to be a mother to him.

"There were no red lights, there were no indications that we should have done something differently," said Timothy McNamee, superintendent of the Mohawk Area School District, noting there were no reports Jordan was bullied or was having problems in school or at home.

Authorities say the Feb. 20 killing of 26-year-old Kenzie Marie Houk in Wampum, a small community about 50 miles north of Pittsburgh where nearly everyone knows everyone, was premeditated. Police say Jordan threw the spent shell casing in the woods, got on the bus and went to school.

Jordan has been charged as an adult with double homicide. If he is convicted as an adult, he faces life in prison. If his case gets moved to a juvenile court, he would probably spend the next 10 years in a secure juvenile facility.

Jordan's mother, Mildred Krause, was just four months pregnant with him when she first entered a courtroom to battle his father, Christopher Brown.

At that time, in March 1997, Krause filed a protection of abuse order against Brown, claiming he drank, did drugs and had threatened to harm her. Apparently unaware Krause was pregnant with his son, Brown was ordered to stay away from her, an order later expunged, according to court records and Brown's attorney, Dennis Elisco.

Immediately after Jordan was born on Aug. 30, 1997, Krause contacted Lawrence County Children and Youth Services requesting that they take custody of the child so her mother could adopt him, according to court documents. Not having the father's consent, the agency declined her request.

Brown, meanwhile, tipped off by Krause's grandmother and brother that she was having his baby in secret, filed an emergency petition with the court, opposing the move to have the child put up for adoption and demanding full custody of his son.

In a back-and-forth battle resolved when Jordan was about 2 months old, a court ruled Krause and Brown would share custody, with the mother getting him four days a week and the father three.

But on Feb. 5, 1999, with the consent of both parents, Christopher Brown was awarded full custody of his 18-month-old son. Court records don't indicate why.

Friends and family say that from February 1999 on, Krause had little contact with her son, entering and exiting his life at will. They say Brown was a good father and spent a lot of quality time with his son.

The instability that characterized Jordan's formative years, including the fact he might have felt rejected by his biological mother, could have influenced his later behavior, said Daniel Shaw, chairman of the psychology department at the University of Pittsburgh.

"You can easily say it's a risk factor, a very important one, in early childhood that has been linked to ... antisocial behaviors," Shaw said. However, "it's not usually going to result in the child killing someone at age 11."

Christopher Brown, Jordan's father, refused to be interviewed for this story but answered a few questions through his attorney. A phone call to a phone number for the boy's mother's family rang unanswered. A person answering a phone at an address listed for the Krause family said she no longer lived there.

Through Elisco, Brown said Jordan was a good student, pulling mostly As and Bs, his favorite subjects being math and science. In the past two years, Jordan was the starting quarterback for his midget football team and also played baseball.

Jordan's school district serves about 1,785 students in the rolling farmland of rural western Pennsylvania. There were about 20 students in his class, and he probably knew many of the other 125 fifth-graders through baseball and football, said McNamee, the superintendent. Continued

http://www.buffalonews.com/260/story/597217.html

[Athena]

In May 2008, Jordan's father began dating Houk. By Christmas, they were engaged and had moved into a farmhouse together, along with Jordan and Houk's two daughters, ages 7 and 4. Houk was already about six months pregnant.

So, dad knocks girfriend up IMMEDIATELY, and, within 6 months, moves her and her two kids in, with Jordan barely having a chance to familiarize himself with this woman, much less grow to care for her. This is exceptionally irresponsible of the father, in my opinion. Way to do right by your new kids at the expense of the existing one.

I sympathize. My father married his wife less than a year after they started dating. Even though we were grown children who lived on our own, my sister and I were PISSED. Here we had just lost our mother, and we hardly ever saw our father. To add insult to injury, they chose the same month of my mother's passing just two years prior to marry... and they eloped. I was so upset about it, I turned down their invitation to go. They asked me to put together a reception for them for when they got back and I declined. My dad and his wife have been married for about three years, now, and she and I are just NOW getting along. But in those three years, there were periods I wouldn't talk to them for months at a time, which was absolutely unheard of, for us.

I'm a well-adjusted, emotionally-stable adult, my step mom has no children and we don't have to live in the same house together. Knowing what my sister and I went through in adjusting to our situation, I can only imagine what this kid was going through.

[Special2bme]

NEW CASTLE — A petition to try an 11-year-old accused of homicide as a juvenile is still a ways off.

Dennis Elisco, attorney for Jordan Brown, who is charged as an adult with two counts of homicide in the Feb. 20 shooting death of Kenzie Houk and her unborn son, said the boy must be evaluated by a psychologist and psychiatrist before a petition is filed to move the case to juvenile court.

Elisco said he also wants to evaluate how the boy adapts and responds to counselors in the juvenile system.

“We’ll have to see if he’s thriving, responding,” Elisco said.

[...]
http://www.timesonline.com/articles/2009/03/08/news/doc49adc87ae2447095690163.txt

[DogMom]

11-year-old murder suspect ordered to stand trial

NEW CASTLE — A shackled 11-year-old New Beaver boy showed little emotion Tuesday as he was ordered to stand trial on charges that he killed the woman he called Mom — his father’s pregnant fiancee — with a single gunshot blast.

Jordan Brown’s defense attorneys said there was no DNA or other forensic evidence linking the boy to the killing. Lawrence County District Attorney John Bongivengo said prosecutors believe Brown is the killer.

Defense attorney Dennis Elisco entered a not-guilty plea to two homicide counts on Brown’s behalf and said the boy continues to deny shooting Houk.

No motive for the slaying was discussed Tuesday. Members of Houk’s family earlier said Brown had been jealous of Kenzie Houk and the baby soon to come.

Throughout testimony, there were few displays of emotion from either the Brown or Houk family, save for Kenzie’s mother, Deborah Houk, who frequently dabbed at tears with a crumpled tissue. Several members of Houk’s family wore red wristbands bearing Kenzie’s name.

As the hearing ended, a member of Houk’s family and a member of Brown’s family began to argue, but the two men were quickly separated by other family.

Outside the courthouse, Christopher Brown, Jordan’s father, had no comment for reporters. Jack Houk said that he and Deborah are caring for their surviving grandchildren, now 4 and 8.

WHAT’S NEXT?

For the foreseeable future, Jordan Brown will remain in an Erie juvenile detention center, where he was moved late last month after he was arrested

Defense attorneys David Acker and Dennis Elisco said Brown is safe and doing well in custody, attending classes and undergoing counseling. Brown’s father, Christopher, visits six days a week, the attorneys said.

Acker said, “At 11, I don’t think he fully comprehends what’s going on.”

“He doesn’t appreciate the magnitude,” Elisco said. “He’s confused as to what’s going on. He’s a child.”

The attorneys said they will soon file paperwork to have Brown’s case moved to juvenile court; he is currently charged as an adult.

Lawrence County District Attorney John Bongivengo said he would oppose Brown being declared a juvenile case.

A bail hearing for Brown is scheduled for Friday. Elisco said that would be put on hold, as he and Acker believe Brown is being well cared for.

http://www.timesonline.com/articles/2009/03/25/news/top_stories/doc49c98b2de183e335781211.txt

[seductress]

does the father hold any blame for this? Should he not be held accountable for the child having such easy access to the gun? Or for not getting this boy some help before this happend? The child made threats that were not taken seriously, why didn't anyone get this kid into some kind of therapy?

[justmeintn]

There is supposed to be a hearing Tomorrow? About waiving him into Juvi court.

Being that is only 11 I see him being in the Juvi system.

I can't see an 11 year old going to prison. Unless they remand him in the Juvi system until he is 18 or 21 and have him finish his sentence in an Adult Prison.

That is how most systems work now days. I feel for both families.

[Wicked Doll]

does the father hold any blame for this? Should he not be held accountable for the child having such easy access to the gun? Or for not getting this boy some help before this happend? The child made threats that were not taken seriously, why didn't anyone get this kid into some kind of therapy?

Probably not any blame that would equate to charges being brought against the father. If Kenzie felt really threatened she could have opted to leave. I'm not saying that the victim is to blame, just saying that both Kenzie and Christopher probably didn't take the threats of an 11 year old seriously.

I'm sure everyone in this situation wonders about the what ifs, but what's done is done. I think that both Christopher and Kenzie had a responsibility to address this situation and deal with it more than just assuming the threats were a kid blowing off steam. As Athena, very correctly, stated this was a very anxiety inducing situation to throw a kid into.

However, most kids don't kill over situations like this. Taking Casey's gun probably wouldn't have done much. If he was determined, he would have found a way to kill Kenzie no matter what. Obviously he was determined and seems to have put a lot of thought into her murder.

Absolutely chilling. And a sad situation for both families involved.

[whisperswing]

Searched for thread on this couldnt find anything,if there is one sorryNEW http://i50.tinypic.com/2yuynv7.jpgThis photo provided by Lawrence County Prison shows 11-year-old Jordan Anthony Brown.CASTLE, Pa. — Good student. Starting quarterback. Aspiring hunter. By most accounts, 11-year-old Jordan Brown was a typical boy in his rural Pennsylvania community, albeit raised mostly by his father after his mother gave him up.

So it baffles Jordan's friends and neighbors that he is accused of taking a 20-gauge youth shotgun he got from his father for Christmas and fatally shooting his father's pregnant fiancee, the woman who tried hardest to be a mother to him.

"There were no red lights, there were no indications that we should have done something differently," said Timothy McNamee, superintendent of the Mohawk Area School District, noting there were no reports Jordan was bullied or was having problems in school or at home.

Authorities say the Feb. 20 killing of 26-year-old Kenzie Marie Houk in Wampum, a small community about 50 miles north of Pittsburgh where nearly everyone knows everyone, was premeditated. Police say Jordan threw the spent shell casing in the woods, got on the bus and went to school.

Jordan has been charged as an adult with double homicide. If he is convicted as an adult, he faces life in prison. If his case gets moved to a juvenile court, he would probably spend the next 10 years in a secure juvenile facility.

Jordan's mother, Mildred Krause, was just four months pregnant with him when she first entered a courtroom to battle his father, Christopher Brown.

At that time, in March 1997, Krause filed a protection of abuse order against Brown, claiming he drank, did drugs and had threatened to harm her. Apparently unaware Krause was pregnant with his son, Brown was ordered to stay away from her, an order later expunged, according to court records and Brown's attorney, Dennis Elisco.

Immediately after Jordan was born on Aug. 30, 1997, Krause contacted Lawrence County Children and Youth Services requesting that they take custody of the child so her mother could adopt him, according to court documents. Not having the father's consent, the agency declined her request.

Brown, meanwhile, tipped off by Krause's grandmother and brother that she was having his baby in secret, filed an emergency petition with the court, opposing the move to have the child put up for adoption and demanding full custody of his son.

Related StoriesLawyer for Boy, 11, Accused of Killing Dad's Pregnant Fiancee Files Emergency Motion for Bail
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Boy Shoots Dad's Pregnant Fiancee Before School, Police Say
11-Year-Old Charged in Shooting Death of Pregnant Woman in Pennsylvania
In a back-and-forth battle resolved when Jordan was about 2 months old, a court ruled Krause and Brown would share custody, with the mother getting him four days a week and the father three.

But on Feb. 5, 1999, with the consent of both parents, Christopher Brown was awarded full custody of his 18-month-old son. Court records don't indicate why.

Friends and family say that from February 1999 on, Krause had little contact with her son, entering and exiting his life at will. They say Brown was a good father and spent a lot of quality time with his son.

The instability that characterized Jordan's formative years, including the fact he might have felt rejected by his biological mother, could have influenced his later behavior, said Daniel Shaw, chairman of the psychology department at the University of Pittsburgh.

"You can easily say it's a risk factor, a very important one, in early childhood that has been linked to ... antisocial behaviors," Shaw said. However, "it's not usually going to result in the child killing someone at age 11."

Christopher Brown, Jordan's father, refused to be interviewed for this story but answered a few questions through his attorney. A phone call to a phone number for the boy's mother's family rang unanswered. A person answering a phone at an address listed for the Krause family said she no longer lived there.

Through Elisco, Brown said Jordan was a good student, pulling mostly As and Bs, his favorite subjects being math and science. In the past two years, Jordan was the starting quarterback for his midget football team and also played baseball.

Jordan's school district serves about 1,785 students in the rolling farmland of rural western Pennsylvania. There were about 20 students in his class, and he probably knew many of the other 125 fifth-graders through baseball and football, said McNamee, the superintendent.

In May 2008, Jordan's father began dating Houk. By Christmas, they were engaged and had moved into a farmhouse together, along with Jordan and Houk's two daughters, ages 7 and 4. Houk was already about six months pregnant.

Houk's family said their daughter tried to include Jordan in everything, in part to compensate for the missing mother figure in his life.

Willard Houk, Kenzie's uncle, said he stopped at the farmhouse a short time after Kenzie and Christopher moved in. He took Kenzie's girls for spins on his motorcycle. Then, Kenzie's 7-year-old reminded him that Jordan needed to get a ride too, "because he's a part of our family now," he said.

Jordan got his ride, but Houk said it seemed strange to him that unlike the girls, who were "bubbly and jumpy," Jordan was barely excited. It made Houk think Jordan needed more men in his life, and he was determined to help.

So at Christmas, Willard Houk bought Jordan a present, like he did for the girls. And Jordan got a 20-gauge youth model shotgun from his father, the one police said he used to shoot Houk in the back of the head.

Like many other kids in the area, Jordan began target shooting with his dad in preparation for the 2009 hunting season, when, at age 12, he would be old enough under Pennsylvania law to get a hunting license.

Father and son would shoot targets in the back yard, which police say helped Houk's 7-year-old daughter identify the sound of the gunshot she heard the morning her mother was killed.

By Valentine's Day, Willard Houk and Kenzie's father, Jack, thought the boy was a good enough shot to participate in a turkey shoot, so they took Jordan along. When he had a hard time handling his 20-gauge, Willard Houk let the boy use his 12-gauge.

Jordan beat out the older, more experienced men, hitting closest to the target and winning the prize turkey.

"He was ecstatic about that," Willard Houk said, noting it was the most emotion he had ever seen the boy express.

But Kenzie's family said that despite their efforts — and those made by Kenzie — Jordan had difficulty adjusting to his new life.

Debbie Houk said Jordan just "bucked her (Kenzie) a lot when his dad wasn't around." His father, she said, got involved, warning the boy not to disrespect his future stepmother.

Kenzie's brother-in-law, Jason Kraner, said that Jordan also told his son "he was going to pop Kenzie in the head and pop both kids," but that no one believed he was serious.

"As far as I was concerned, he was a typical 11-year-old boy who wanted to have fun," Willard Houk said.

But Jordan's attorney, Elisco, denied there were tensions between Jordan and his new family.

"He had a very good relationship with Kenzie," Elisco said. "The accusations of him having rage or warning signs of violence are unfounded."
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,504984,00.html http://i45.tinypic.com/2powlzb.jpg http://i50.tinypic.com/2igjak7.jpgKenzie Houk was 8-months pregnant when she was found shot to death in her bed.

[Gidget]

The look in that kid's eyes in the mugshot photo makes my blood run cold.

[Oceangirly92]

killing at such a young age will cause him to believe that it is an appropriate way to let out his jealousy. he wont stop. you'l see him on here again in 8 or 9 years

[battery jackson]

why do they even print what the fucking lawyer says, it's so stupid!!

[momof3]

He truly looks like a young John Wayne Gacy.

[Ninja0980]

If he goes to trial the way things are right now.. he will get LWOP. There are no easy answers in a case like this... there really isn't.
On one hand he's only 11.. but on the other, he's already committed a cold blooded murder, can we really risk him doing it again? My answer is sadly no we can't.