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La Mera Mera
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A Johnson County man was arrested at an area hospital where the woman he allegedly raped was being treated for her injuries.

Clarence Daniel Hartnell is in the Johnson County Jail on charges of attempted first-degree murder, rape, aggravated kidnapping and criminal threat.

[...]

Hartnell held a woman against her will and repeatedly raped her in a Merriam apartment that he shared with his parents.

[...]

Court documents say that the woman was an escort, and when they went to the apartment, he raped her at knife point. She told police that she begged for her life and could feel the breath leaving her body as he strangled her. Eventually, documents say that Hartnell let the woman go.

[...]

Court documents say that police pinged Hartnell's cell phone, and it came back to the hospital where the victim was. As the victim was being interviewed in the hospital, an officer looked out the window and saw Hartnell standing there.

[...]

he told them that he had placed bombs around the hospital and that everyone was going to die.

Hartnell allegedly told officers that he was going to kill the victim, but when he saw the look of fear on her face he decided not to.

http://www.kctv5.com/story/26836448/man-arrested-for-rape-at-hospital-where-victim-being-treated
 
He looks all of 12.

Its always scary when you look at the mug shot and think, he doesn't at all look capable of doing this. That creeps me out more than anything, even already knowing that not all criminals look like "criminals", if you know what I mean.
 
What a psycho little shit. Wonder if she was the first one he did this to because his face shows no remorse, not even on the video at the link.
 
Hartnell allegedly told officers that he was going to kill the victim, but when he saw the look of fear on her face he decided not to.

I thought that look of fear was what got them off, probably more like he wanted to see that look again and knew if he killed her he wouldn't so he revived her to do it again.

And, yeah, @AllElseFailed, exactly what I was thinking he looks so benign, so innocent, but that is what hides all the evil.
 
Holy crap. The fact he came to the hospital, the police officer looking through the window to see him standing there, after she thought her ordeal was over and she was safe, it's like the plot of a horror movie.

You're right, the fact he looks so ordinary makes it even more frightening. I imagine she felt no alarms going off when he picked her up.
 
Court documents say that the woman was an escort, and when they went to the apartment, he raped her at knife point. She told police that she begged for her life and could feel the breath leaving her body as he strangled her. Eventually, documents say that Hartnell let the woman go.

Fucking jerk! The majority of those women are cool as shit, I've even made spaghetti and meatballs for them, and then we watched TV....
 
I see that you were able to Google the dramatized version of this story and make your assumptions from there. Did anyone in this chat room have the brain power to Google just a tiny bit more and find out a more realistic view of what happened in this case? You may want to start here:
http://fox4kc.com/2014/10/03/mother...arged-with-attempted-murder-rape-defends-son/
For those of you who think he looks like a kid, guess what, he is a kid. If this article really angers you, then I would suggest that you volunteer with your local NAMI chapter or other mental health advocacy organization. Laws regarding Mental Health funding in this county are not going to change themselves. In the meantime, if you have some actual intelligent questions regarding this case, then feel free to ask me, because I am Clarence Hartnell's mother.

-Peace
 
I see that you were able to Google the dramatized version of this story and make your assumptions from there. Did anyone in this chat room have the brain power to Google just a tiny bit more and find out a more realistic view of what happened in this case? You may want to start here:
http://fox4kc.com/2014/10/03/mother...arged-with-attempted-murder-rape-defends-son/
For those of you who think he looks like a kid, guess what, he is a kid. If this article really angers you, then I would suggest that you volunteer with your local NAMI chapter or other mental health advocacy organization. Laws regarding Mental Health funding in this county are not going to change themselves. In the meantime, if you have some actual intelligent questions regarding this case, then feel free to ask me, because I am Clarence Hartnell's mother.

-Peace

Anyone on these boards will tell you I'm a strong advocate for mental health provision and understanding. I have an MI myself,and have experienced psychosis. However, I've never hurt someone else physically, and where my MI has made my behaviour unacceptable, I've taken responsibility for my actions. I can't just blame the illness. I'm still responsible, and the people wounded by my words or actions are just as hurt.

The crime your son committed was horrific. The victim will be just as traumatised. It's not made okay or less painful, knowing the perpetrator was mentally unwell at the time.

However, I agree with you that getting the right mental health care is a nightmare, and I've heard horror stories about how much harder it is to access in the US. (I'm in the UK). Can you elaborate in what mental illness your son suffers from, and why treatment was withdrawn? I'm sorry that you've had to go through this too, it does seem you've done everything you can to help him and to prevent a tragedy like this.
 
You should know that the article that you quoted from Fox KC TV was a dramatization of the truth, and far fetched at best. My son has very little recollection of these events, meaning that he blacked out, so as far as the media quoting what he did or did not say, its pretty irrelevant . At the time, we lived next to hospital that the article is referring to, so if he were out walking, he would have been walking on the hospital campus. He would have had no other option, nor would he have had a way of knowing whether this girl was being treated at the hospital or not. The local police had his cell phone number, so when they pinged his number, they knew he was close. There was no stalking her at the hospital. He didn't know she was there. It's a pretty small part of town.

With regards to my son living in my home, prior to his event, he had been hospitalized 10 times, with four of them being four months or longer. He had also had several run ins with he juvenile justice system. With the way the current mental health system is in he US (it does vary from state to state) a person does have to be deemed a current danger to themselves or others. So in extreme cases, like my son's case, that means that unfortunately it doesn't matter how loud a voice people like me have. What it does mean is that people get hurt before anyone pays attention and by then its just too late. This is why our prison systems are the biggest mental health providers in this country and the result is not a positive one. This is why we see so many police shootings because we are asking our police officers to be mental health providers and this is not what they are trained to do.
 
Awesome. A thread that hasn't been commented on in 2 years. I missed it when it was new. Thanks for reviving it.

Oh, by the way. I volunteer to work with the mentally ill. True, not a lot, but I do. And my bro is a paranoid schizophrenic.
 
Oh, I forgot to the question you asked about the state withdrawing my son's treatment. In the US, most mental health services are extremely expensive. Most private insurance companies do not cover inpatient stays and they cover minimal out-patient services. So, in cases like my son, he received Medicaid based purely on his diagnosis. For a patient ( a juvenile patient) who is utilizing outpatient services, this is called an SED (Severely Emotionally Disturbed) Waiver and inpatient services are covered under PRTF (Psychiatric Residential Treatment Facility). When a person gets better or meets certain criteria, these services are taken away and they cannot be attained any other way. So what I was referring to in the video is whenever my son would get well enough, they would periodically remove the services that were helping him and then things would always get worse. It is a pretty vicious cycle.
 
Oh, I forgot to the question you asked about the state withdrawing my son's treatment. In the US, most mental health services are extremely expensive. Most private insurance companies do not cover inpatient stays and they cover minimal out-patient services. So, in cases like my son, he received Medicaid based purely on his diagnosis. For a patient ( a juvenile patient) who is utilizing outpatient services, this is called an SED (Severely Emotionally Disturbed) Waiver and inpatient services are covered under PRTF (Psychiatric Residential Treatment Facility). When a person gets better or meets certain criteria, these services are taken away and they cannot be attained any other way. So what I was referring to in the video is whenever my son would get well enough, they would periodically remove the services that were helping him and then things would always get worse. It is a pretty vicious cycle.

That is terrible. What are your sons diagnoses?
 
He has several, which is pretty common for someone who has been sick as long as he has, but the diagnosis that has stuck is Aspergers, Bipolar Combined Type with psychotic features and cluster B personality traits.
 
He has several, which is pretty common for someone who has been sick as long as he has, but the diagnosis that has stuck is Aspergers, Bipolar Combined Type with psychotic features and cluster B personality traits.
Tough mixture. If these are true, and I believe you, then no... I'm not entirely certain he knew what was going on.
 
He has several, which is pretty common for someone who has been sick as long as he has, but the diagnosis that has stuck is Aspergers, Bipolar Combined Type with psychotic features and cluster B personality traits.

Thank you for sharing that, I was curious, because memory blackouts are extremely rare, even when in crisis or in the midst of psychosis. You don't lay down perfect memories when psychotic, but there are memories of the delusions and the actions.

Personality disorders are incredibly difficult to treat though, and adding psychotic features to that must make it even harder. I've only heard of DBT helping with personality disorders/traits, haven't heard much about medication really helping.

I don't know what to say. I feel terrible for you, and I agree that the mental health system there is shockingly neglectful. That it can be almost impossible to get the right help.

On the other hand, your son did commit a horrible, violent crime, and is a danger. I don't want to downplay what the victim went through either by calling it his 'event', or completely excusing him. I just can't. I know that when you're psychotic, you're not in touch with reality, and that you lack insight - by the nature of the illness. But even at my most ill, when I genuinely felt that my life was in danger, I didn't strike anyone. Something held me back. And I remembered it. I'm very reluctant to believe in blackouts in memory where there is no head injury involved.

I don't know what the answer is for someone like your son. Inpatient treatment in a secure ward seems like the only answer.
 
My brother always talked about eating my dog. He never did, but I was terrified he would.
He was once pregnant with an aliens baby, but jumped into a canal and the big snake that lived there ate the baby. At my brothers worst, he never committed a crime. But he still might, who knows?
 
I think at some point DBT (Dialectical behavior therapy) may be of help to him, but thus far he has not been able to follow through. His therapist before he was arrested, was a DBT therapist and since he has been incarcerated, he has been in DBT groups, but he has been removed because he cannot handle being around the other inmates. He is currently in a psychiatric program in a Kansas State prison, special management, and he spends much of his time in isolation. He is currently pending a due process hearing so they can send him back to Larned State Hospital where he will most likely spend a good portion of his 20-year sentence.

The interesting thing is that in spite of him being him, him being heavily medicated, and in spite of everything that has occurred, I am still able to communicate with him. Shortly after his 18th birthday, I went to court and got guardianship of him without question. He did not fight me on the issue.

Make no mistake, I am aware that my son is a criminal. However, I feel that his crime is a complicated one. The thing that has been toughest for me to swallow if the fact that this Innocent girl, my son's victim, came into my home for a reason. I know this because she was advertising is on backpage.com. Unfortunately, she only got half of what she bargained for. She was advertising sex and she didn't get paid for it. Within in a two-hour window (because my mother in law and my daughter had actually just left my home) She came into my home soliciting sex, my son raped her and did not pay, he let her go, I came home and could not get back in because my home had become a crime scene. The police took a lot of my personal belongings as evidence, many of which had sentimental value. I moved very shortly after that. Needless to say, it was very difficult for my family to stay there. The day of the sentencing the girl showed up to speak. She was wearing next to nothing, very short skirt and about 5" heals. She addressed the court about how she will not have night terrors anymore now that my son is locked up.

From the perspective of someone looking in, it is really easy to see who the bad guy is and who the victim is, but being the middle of it, its really hard not see things a bit grayer than others. Honestly, I know I should not think this way, but the day of my son's sentencing, I truly wanted to just write her a check for whatever he owed her and be done with it. If appearances are everything, she did not appear to be in victim mode. She was smiling and bubbly, while I could barely function. I have never felt more like a victim than I have in the past two years.....Like some sort of casualty of this shit storm.
 
From the perspective of someone looking in, it is really easy to see who the bad guy is and who the victim is, but being the middle of it, its really hard not see things a bit grayer than others. Honestly, I know I should not think this way, but the day of my son's sentencing, I truly wanted to just write her a check for whatever he owed her and be done with it. If appearances are everything, she did not appear to be in victim mode. She was smiling and bubbly, while I could barely function. I have never felt more like a victim than I have in the past two years.....Like some sort of casualty of this shit storm.

I'm so sorry. Frankly, you are a casualty of this shit storm, and it isn't your fault.

Please try to show some compassion for the victim. Sex you've agreed to, and rape are entirely different things, whether you've consented to the sex for money or for love. Just as one day you consent to sex with a spouse, if they rape you the next day, the feeling, and the pain, is entirely different. We also don't know what was in the victims background that led to her own path. Many women who turn to prostitution come from very violent, sexual abuse laden backgrounds. And whether she did or not, prostitute or not, she didn't deserve to be raped and strangled, and the money isn't the point.

But, I know it's still so early in your trauma. I hope you are able to access some therapy too, because you've had so much to deal with for so many years.

You could be a great advocate for mental health reform. I hope that your son is able to access the care he needs, and that the burden is lifted from your shoulders. I know that my own mental illness pained my parents deeply, my matter how much they love me. I know it's a heavy weight when you just want love to fix something, and you know that it can't.

But most of all, take care of you now. You've more than earned that.
 
Well, like I said, I know I shouldn't think such things about her. I do hope that she has chosen a new line of work though. My son is certainly not the only lost soul, lunatic out there! I volunteer with NAMI, http://www.nami.org/. I teach a 12-week course called NAMI Family to Family, geared toward family members of persons with mental illness. The class is one part education, one part advocacy, and one part support group. NAMI classes are truly the best thing in mental health that the US has to offer!
[doublepost=1465864615,1465863141][/doublepost][QUOTE="Valasca, post:jumped into a canal and the big snake that lived there ate the baby. [/QUOTE]
So, We lived in South Florida for several years. Both of my children were born there. Fun fact: at least once a year someone decides to go swimming in the canals and anyone who has lived in Florida for any amount of time knows that you don't swim in the canals unless you want to become gator bait! So...I hope your brother did not become gator bait???
 
I think at some point DBT (Dialectical behavior therapy) may be of help to him, but thus far he has not been able to follow through. His therapist before he was arrested, was a DBT therapist and since he has been incarcerated, he has been in DBT groups, but he has been removed because he cannot handle being around the other inmates. He is currently in a psychiatric program in a Kansas State prison, special management, and he spends much of his time in isolation. He is currently pending a due process hearing so they can send him back to Larned State Hospital where he will most likely spend a good portion of his 20-year sentence.

The interesting thing is that in spite of him being him, him being heavily medicated, and in spite of everything that has occurred, I am still able to communicate with him. Shortly after his 18th birthday, I went to court and got guardianship of him without question. He did not fight me on the issue.

Make no mistake, I am aware that my son is a criminal. However, I feel that his crime is a complicated one. The thing that has been toughest for me to swallow if the fact that this Innocent girl, my son's victim, came into my home for a reason. I know this because she was advertising is on backpage.com. Unfortunately, she only got half of what she bargained for. She was advertising sex and she didn't get paid for it. Within in a two-hour window (because my mother in law and my daughter had actually just left my home) She came into my home soliciting sex, my son raped her and did not pay, he let her go, I came home and could not get back in because my home had become a crime scene. The police took a lot of my personal belongings as evidence, many of which had sentimental value. I moved very shortly after that. Needless to say, it was very difficult for my family to stay there. The day of the sentencing the girl showed up to speak. She was wearing next to nothing, very short skirt and about 5" heals. She addressed the court about how she will not have night terrors anymore now that my son is locked up.

From the perspective of someone looking in, it is really easy to see who the bad guy is and who the victim is, but being the middle of it, its really hard not see things a bit grayer than others. Honestly, I know I should not think this way, but the day of my son's sentencing, I truly wanted to just write her a check for whatever he owed her and be done with it. If appearances are everything, she did not appear to be in victim mode. She was smiling and bubbly, while I could barely function. I have never felt more like a victim than I have in the past two years.....Like some sort of casualty of this shit storm.
I'm sorry but why even reference her attire? This crime was about her..not you. While I sympathize with the extremely tough role you have had to play in your son's life...and you are probably a victim in more ways than one..it has absolutely nothing to do with her lack of attire, her bubbly personality, or the way she's responding to the brutal rape she endured. She was probably very happy that your son would be put away. All I'm saying is please don't turn the victimized from her to you.
 
@TinaB said

I lost all sympathy when you said this:
The thing that has been toughest for me to swallow if the fact that this Innocent girl, my son's victim, came into my home for a reason. I know this because she was advertising is on backpage.com. Unfortunately, she only got half of what she bargained for. She was advertising sex and she didn't get paid for it. Within in a two-hour window (because my mother in law and my daughter had actually just left my home) She came into my home soliciting sex, my son raped her and did not pay, he let her go, I came home and could not get back in because my home had become a crime scene. The police took a lot of my personal belongings as evidence, many of which had sentimental value. I moved very shortly after that. Needless to say, it was very difficult for my family to stay there. The day of the sentencing the girl showed up to speak. She was wearing next to nothing, very short skirt and about 5" heals.
 
@TinaB said

I lost all sympathy when you said this:

Yep. Me too. The son clearly needs significant help. This does not change the fact that he broke the law and scared that girl stupid and did something awful to her.

Ultimately, the victim here is the girl. Regardless of the son's mental state. Her attire - means absolutely jack shit. Her behaviour post attack, also means nothing. She was hired for a transaction that was not paid and she was injured, scared and nearly killed during it. The son is 100% at fault here, regardless of mental illness and trying to garner sympathy for him, at the cost of what she suffered through, is not on.

Look at it like this. Prostitutes and other sex workers wouldn't exist. That job wouldn't be an option. If there wasn't demand for it. Anyone with a moral issue against this kind of work? Take a look at all the men out there who provide the demand for it. So less blaming on her and more blaming on the son for doing the wrong thing.
 
She also said her son just happened to be walking through the hospital only because they lived nearby, because THAT'S logical. :confused:

I suppose the officer who stated that he was standing outside the victim's hospital room was also lying or exaggating. That officer was probably wearing tight uniform trousers and therefore couldn't be trusted to be credible. :rolleyes:
 
whenever my son would get well enough, they would periodically remove the services that were helping him and then things would always get worse. It is a pretty vicious cycle.

I think your son's biggest problem is you...your son hates you.

Of course he does...he tried to kill a prostitute.

Maybe you should stop taking him to doctors...get yourself some help instead,

whatever YOU'VE been doing isn't working, and eventually

he is going to kill you for it.

Keep telling your son he is defective, until he pushes a knife to

your chest and fucks you while you're dying on the floor,

proves to you, he got it right finally. Killed the MONSTER

FUCKING enabling PIG!




Tough mixture. If these are true, and I believe you, then no... I'm not entirely certain he knew what was going on.

But everyone knows rape is wrong...not saying they don't do it anyways...just

saying they KNOW!
 
@TinaB since you knew how severe your son's mental illness was/is, and you had guardianship over him, you should have made sure he was supervised. Particularly if he was a "lunatic" and child-like. He clearly is a danger to society and if you can't keep him from raping (and next time maybe killing) and harming others, then he definitely needs to be locked up. And how short her dress was or how high her heels were don't diminish what he did. She only came to your home "soliciting sex" because your son invited her to do so. And unlike you, she did not know he was mentally ill.
 
@Buffettgirl ...I awesomed you plus these <3<3<3<3<3

because...

I promise the last thing I would be doing is shouting from the rooftops how he is mentally ill,

This lady is different...she'll tell anyone that will listen, so she can label her

son as sick, so nothing is her fault, because she is a fucking parasitic pig to

the highest order.
 
Perhaps if this rapists guardian had been properly fulfilling her role, he would not have been hiring an escort to brutalize...in her home because he would have been supervised.

Sorry, but after reading all the posts all I see is dear old mumsie trying to deflect to protect.
The son is a criminal sex offender who is better off behind bars.

I don't give a raw sausage about what the victim wore to court, does for a living,, or ate for bloody lunch or breakfast.
What matters is a woman was brutalized at the hands of an individual capable enough to arrange the sex date, do so at a time where everyone was away, and managed to think he was going to somehow get away with it.

Then on top goes to the hospital where his victim is and makes threats about blowing it up.
Come on, to think he was totally blank on these points is insulting at best.
Also how is it possible your former home was on hospital campus with no other way in and out of your home except past the hospital.
No, no way.
I have looked at the satellite pictures and that is provable nonsense.
There are a lot of ways in that area to get around without going on hospital property.
Antioch rd, W75th, Eby....he so did not need to be on hospital grounds so stop lying to yourself.

All I see are excuses.
Face it mum, your son is a mentally ill rapist and you are not helping things by trying to explain and justify it.
Shame on you for being such a disgraceful person who is too worried about making excuses instead of dealing with the problems head on...ugly though they may be.
You honestly sicken me and I am sure I am not alone in this.
 
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