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This historical WTF moment brought to you by @CbabyRKO :
(victim photos and much more at link below)

doctor31n-1-web.jpg

LOS ANGELES — A doctor was convicted of murder Friday in a landmark case for killing three patients who overdosed on what a prosecutor called “crazy, outrageous amounts” of painkillers she prescribed.

The second-degree murder convictions of Dr. Hsiu-Ying “Lisa” Tseng were the first against a U.S. doctor for recklessly prescribing drugs, the Los Angeles district attorney’s office said.

It’s rare to bring homicide charges against a physician, but the case came amid a prescription drug abuse epidemic that has led lawmakers to try to rein in so-called pill mills that dole out medications with little scrutiny.

“You can’t hide behind a white lab coat and commit crimes,” Deputy District Attorney John Niedermann said. “Writing a prescription to someone knowing that they’re going to abuse it and potentially die was the theory of second-degree murder that we had.”

A dozen of Tseng’s patients died, though prosecutors only brought three murder charges because of other factors involved in some of those deaths, such as drugs prescribed by other doctors and a possible suicide.

Tseng, 45, showed no emotion as the convictions were read aloud, though her lawyer said she was emotional and very upset later.

Jurors deliberated for 10 days before reaching the verdicts. She was also convicted of illegally writing prescriptions for two of the deceased patients and 16 other people, including two undercover agents who were investigating how easily she prescribed addictive pain pills after brief office visits. She was acquitted of illegally writing a hydrocodone prescription to a third undercover officer.

Tseng prescribed “crazy, outrageous amounts of medication” to patients who didn’t need the pills, Niedermann told jurors in Los Angeles County Superior Court during closing arguments. The doctor repeatedly ignored warning signs even after several patients died as she built a new medical clinic in Rowland Heights with the money she made from them, earning $5 million in one three-year period. One patient even overdosed in her office and had to be revived.

“Something is wrong with what you’re doing if your patients are dying,” Niedermann said.

Tseng’s lawyer said her client naively trusted her patients. Defense lawyer Tracy Green said patients testified they were legitimately in pain and later became dependent on the drugs, hiding their addictions by seeing other doctors and picking up prescriptions from different pharmacies.

Green had asked jurors to acquit Tseng on all but one drug count. Tseng shouldn’t have been convicted of anything more than manslaughter and plans to appeal, Green said after the verdict.

“It’s disappointing,” Green said. “I don’t think it bodes well for doctors in America.”

Tseng faces up to life in prison when sentenced Dec. 14. She was convicted of killing Vu Nguyen, 29, of Lake Forest, Steven Ogle, 25, of Palm Desert, and Joseph Rovero, 21, an Arizona State University student from San Ramon. The three died of overdoses between March and December 2009.

Tseng barely kept any records on the three men until she was contacted by the Medical Board of California. She then fabricated charts to make it look like she kept thorough records of diagnoses and noted she was weaning them off drugs, Niedermann said.

Tseng ignored pleas from family members of patients who demanded she stop prescribing drugs to them. April Rovero, who lost her son almost six years ago, said she had waited for justice so long that she almost couldn’t believe it when she heard the words “guilty” uttered repeatedly.

She said her son and others were culpable at some level, but they had lost the ability to stop themselves and Tseng took advantage. If her son were alive today, she’d tell him that his bad choice led to an outcome that could have a broader impact.

“This is something that could make a difference as we turn this doctor overprescribing situation around,” Rovero said. “I wish he was here, certainly, but his life has made a difference.”

http://m.nydailynews.com/news/crime...se-murders-landmark-verdict-article-1.2418586
 
I think its retarded. If shes going to jail because overprescribed to known addicts..then shouldn't those who enable alcoholics go to jail as well? No forced a gun to their heads and made them take vicodin or morphine. Yes I think she should be sued Yes I think she should be removed from her profession. but come on...you dont have to fill the prescription or take the drugs...
I know what you're trying to get at, but you have to understand these are schedule II controlled medications, which means they're physically addicting with a very high likely to be abused, and nobody should know that better than a doctor. Just because she's licensed to prescribe these medications doesn't mean she can do so recklessly. There are certain expectations which she must maintain, and keeping a detailed chart on her patients is just one of them.

Think of it this way; you have a license to drive a car, but you know you're not supposed to be texting while driving. If you're texting and kill someone, you're going to be charged with a serious crime and arguing that it was simply accidental is fruitless.

Not a great analogy, but the point being that not acting according to the standards stipulated by your license can bring serious consequences.
 
Same way a bartender can cut you off/kick you out the Doctor has a responsibility to lower the chances of abuse.

She would have saw the signs if she was monitoring them like she was supposed to be.
 
It's called a pill mill, and it's been going on for decades. It'll keep going on too.
She pissed of the wrong person, that's why charges are being pressed.
 
I am 2 years clean after being addicted to heroin for almost 3 yrs. It all started many years prior with prescription pain meds. I've been to rehab, out patient programs and detox too many time to count.
I don't blame the docs for my addiction but I will say that the meds they prescribed me had such a strong hold on me that I would do almost anything to avoid being without. I went from managing my pain to trying daily to avoid being dope sick after the pills were gone in 3 days, to just eventually maintaining and still living with pain.
It's impossible to take these meds for longer than maybe 2 weeks and not become dependent. I would never wish the life of an addict on anyone. It's a sad, lonely and pathetic existence that starts as a choice but evolves into something way bigger, that you no longer have a choice over. I didn't care about anything but getting my fix and lost so much in the process.

Side note: one of my old pill Drs got busted by the DEA for over-prescribing and Medicaid fraud. He fled to India at one point, I don't know his status at the moment. Here are a couple good articles..

http://m.clevescene.com/scene-and-h...-accused-of-drug-trafficking-money-laundering

http://www.justice.gov/usao-ndoh/pr...fraud-and-illegally-distributing-prescription
 
Absolute horseshit. These drug addicts should be held responsible for their own behavior. She didn't force anyone to do anything. Sounds like she did some fraudulent stuff like prescribing drugs to deceased people(that some sort of medical insurance scamming?), but 2nd degree murder? Outfuckingrageous.

It'll become even more difficult to get pain meds now, which is quite bothersome for someone like me who faces a 45 minute drive and a long wait anytime i gotta go to the doctor for some. Shit like this will make em even more hesitant to hand em out like candy or give me a sizeable stock. I should be able to get a fucking several month supply if i want. Disgusting that the system and medical industry are more concerned with drug addicted pieces of shit and drug dealing scum than folks like myself.

ALL drugs should be over the counter. Shouldn't even need the middle-man that is the doctor/nurse practitioner and their pharmacist pals. I, and responsible folks like me, shouldn't be inconvenienced because other people in society can't handle their shit. Fuck em.


You OD on pills you deserve to go. Nobody should be coddling your ass or passing laws about the amount of pills that can be prescribed cuz of it.

And to refer to this woman as a serial killer? Give me a fucking break. What kind of absurd, sensationalist bullshit is that? Get fuckin real.
 
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@JackBurton said:
It'll become even more difficult to get pain meds now, which is quite bothersome for someone like me who faces a 45 minute drive and a long wait anytime i gotta go to the doctor for some. Shit like this will make em even more hesitant to hand em out like candy or give me a sizeable stock. I should be able to get a fucking several month supply if i want.
Drug addicts fuck up everything!
 
Why in the fuck would anybody go to a doctor who looks like a 1960s troll doll anyway?

Cuz she actually gives you pills. I've been to several who were hesitant as shit to prescribe even with my extensive medical history(which included no issues of negative side effects or misuse/abuse). Total horseshit.


Point is drug addicts have a choice.

And more and more, us worthwhile members of society do not.
 
@Megan1993 I'm sorry but that's false. & you can't say it isn't because you've obviously never been in the situation. Nobody can truly understand the life of an addict unless you've been there.

It's a disease. Maybe you can try and educate yourself instead of being so judgemental.
 
Actually, just forget I said anything in the first place and please don't respond to this or any previous post. I'm not in the mood to deal with ignorance today.
 
You can't say one hand you chose then you no longer had a choice.
Spoken by someone who has never been an addict.

I'm backing @melessalou on this one. While I blame no one but myself for the mess I made out of my life for 20 motherfucking years on drugs, the plain and simple truth is that at some point I had no choice in using, drugs became my life, as important as air and food. And I saw no way out.

I was not offered rehab, I had never got caught breaking the law so the courts didn't offer me treatment, my insurance company told me if I went back to using after a massive overdose then they would consider sending me to rehab. I was facing down a 20 year opiate and barbiturate addiction, along with adding other drugs in the last 8 or 9 years of it all. I knew I was going to be sicker then than ever before in my life.

Yes, I did it, cold turkey, almost 4 years ago now. Today I rage against addicts and alcoholics who commit crimes, especially when they try to use drugs or alcohol as their justification, but I can clearly remember those days of being helpless, being a slave to the high, fuck, being a slave just to feeling my "normal" because I was so far gone that their were no fun "highs" anymore.

Melessa, congrats on your sobriety! Welcome to the club and I hope you stay for many, many more years.
 
Yay this should start curbing the retarded trend that is pill addiction. I work for a company who gets calls all day about why can't I get this medication or I want that medication and why do I need a prior authorization for my pain meds? My back hurts, my knee hurts, I have a bad vertebrae. I feel like screaming most days listen I had a broken neck had anterior and posterior spine fusion, titanium plates, screws and rods holding my head to my shoulders, twelve bulging or herniated disc and have ankylosing spondylitis, and a whole host of other shit related to my spine and I don't take shit for pain meds except Advil PM a couple nights a week to get to sleep. I wake up go to work full time, take care of an infant every day, and do standard shit. If I can then so could they. It's time people man up and deal with what life has to give. There are some very little exceptions like the very elderly or the very sick children. Sorry rant over.
 
I think its retarded. If shes going to jail because overprescribed to known addicts..then shouldn't those who enable alcoholics go to jail as well? No forced a gun to their heads and made them take vicodin or morphine. Yes I think she should be sued Yes I think she should be removed from her profession. but come on...you dont have to fill the prescription or take the drugs...

While I understand your point, maybe you should think about it this way. Doctors have a job to do, that job is to help people, to save people, to keep people alive. They have ethics to adhere to and are put in a position of trust by their patients who come to them to get better. It was her job to monitor her patients, it's her job to know how many pills should be prescribed in order to treat the patient. I know addicts can doctor hop to get multiple prescriptions, but in her case they found evidence that she was overprescribing pills to multiple patients. Now if it had been one or even two patients that overdosed and she took notice and worked harder on helper her patients instead of enabling them we wouldn't be reading this article. However, it was multiple patients who DIED from overdoses...and it doesn't even mention how many more overdosed but didn't actually die from it. I know it's a thin line, but I feel she is more criminally responsible than say just a street drug dealer; mainly because she was educated enough to know better and was in a position of trust to keep her patients alive.
 
It's a disease.

Uhmmm, no. Technically it's a condition. It has no organic, or viral, disease vector. At best, the addict has a genetic propensity for becoming one, but that's still not an organic cause.
The only reason it's classified by some as a disease is to force the insurance companies to cover treatment.
 
And to refer to this woman as a serial killer? Give me a fucking break. What kind of absurd, sensationalist bullshit is that? Get fuckin real.

LOL. Liked that, huh? Obviously, as one of the top lexicographical minds in the literary field, I thought you would. ;)
"A serial killer is a person who murders three or more people, usually due to abnormal psychological gratification, with the murders taking place over more than a month and including a significant break (a "cooling off period") between them."

ETA: This case broke new ground although as @Macabre mentioned, it's nothing new (thus my quotes around the word in the title). Just because you're not used to thinking of it in that context doesn't mean anything or make it any less true just because she isn't a Bundy, a Gacy, or a character off of Criminal Minds.

Being convicted of murder for killing three of her patients from March-Dec. of '09 out of a total of 12 patients who died on her caseload puts her right up there with the other nurses and doctors who're serial killers by definition ("Angels of Mercy/Death" and "Doctors of Death," etc.).
 
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Oh, look at Megan, so full of pith and wisdom about addicts. She can't even get rid of her buttworms, but she certainly knows how to look down her nose at people she doesn't even understand.

I've been watching the system turn people into addicts unwillingly for years now. When a 69 year old woman breaks her hip and gets prescribed Norco every 4 hours for the pain, you think she consciously chose to become an addict?!
Nah, she was doing what the doctor ordered. Unfortunately, that usually means she's going to need it for the rest of her life, because our healthcare system is driven by big pharma lining doctors' pockets for the scripts they write.

The problem is bigger than your tiny head could ever conceive.
Think twice, little girl.
 
and a whole host of other shit related to my spine and I don't take shit for pain meds except Advil PM a couple nights a week to get to sleep. I wake up go to work full time, take care of an infant every day, and do standard shit. If I can then so could they.

Cuz everyones body is the same, everyones injury and response to injury is the same, everyones recovery and threshold for pain is the same, everyones job puts the same amount of physical stress on their broken body. Give me a fucking break. You can't make some, "well i can make due, so they sure as fuck can too!" Load of nonsense.

It's time people man up and deal with what life has to give.

But drugs exist, why not use em? Things exist that can help people manage their pain, that can aid in recovery. I couldn't have rehabbed at all after my hip replacement without pain meds for example. I woulda been stuck in a bed withering away, my physical condition and overrall health would have kept deteriorating I don't understand this negativity towards pain meds. Fucking bizarre.

Just because you're not used to thinking of it in that context doesn't mean anything or make it any less true just because she isn't a Bundy, a Gacy, or a character off of Criminal Minds.

To begin with i don't view her as a murderer. On top of that i don't think her motivations were for any abnormal pyschological gratification. She wanted money, plain and simple, who doesn't? Perfectly normal to commit insurance fraud and try to push as many pills as possible in order to get that dough. By this logic there's thousands of street corner drug dealers who are also serial killers, given teh amount of overdose fatalities that occur in this country.
 
By this logic there's thousands of street corner drug dealers who are also serial killers, given teh amount of overdose fatalities that occur in this country.

But drug dealers don't quite have the same code of ethics to adhere to as say a dr who is supposed to be treating a person, not just selling drugs.


Perfectly normal to commit insurance fraud and try to push as many pills as possible in order to get that dough.

Is it perfectly normal if you know your actions are causing multiple patients to die from overdosing?
 
Cuz everyones body is the same, everyones injury and response to injury is the same, everyones recovery and threshold for pain is the same, everyones job puts the same amount of physical stress on their broken body. Give me a fucking break. You can't make some, "well i can make due, so they sure as fuck can too!" Load of nonsense.



But drugs exist, why not use em? Things exist that can help people manage their pain, that can aid in recovery. I couldn't have rehabbed at all after my hip replacement without pain meds for example. I woulda been stuck in a bed withering away, my physical condition and overrall health would have kept deteriorating I don't understand this negativity towards pain meds. Fucking bizarre.



To begin with i don't view her as a murderer. On top of that i don't think her motivations were for any abnormal pyschological gratification. She wanted money, plain and simple, who doesn't? Perfectly normal to commit insurance fraud and try to push as many pills as possible in order to get that dough. By this logic there's thousands of street corner drug dealers who are also serial killers, given teh amount of overdose fatalities that occur in this country.


Well seems like you are one of millions sucking up our SSI with injuries that you definitely could have recover from and our awesome state health insurance depletion. Thanks @JackBurton for sucking our tax dollars dry with lounging around. Even with needing to recover it should not be a forever lounging on the couch type of thing buddy. I'll think of you when it's my turn to retire and there is nothing left because of bullshit lifetime injuries. BTW I didn't say I can handle the pain just saying my decision to not be dependent on society to take care of me was a choice I made on my own. We need to revamp the way people can abuse the system forever getting free foodstamps, health care, housing and monthly monetary stipend so you can troll website and talk shit to people. Just sayin!
 
"A serial killer is a person who murders three or more people, usually due to abnormal psychological gratification, with the murders taking place over more than a month and including a significant break (a "cooling off period") between them."

Sorry, I can't agree with that overly broad & partially incorrect summation. It throws in "gratification" as the only psych factor & ignores the major cause. Abnormal psych "drive" is more often a cause. Sometimes, there is no "gratification" factor, or "psycho-sexual gratification" involved either.
She fits the descriptive of a "Mass Murderer" much better, due to the lack of the psychological factor(s) as stated in the story. She was lax in her professional standards due in part to her greed.
 
Sorry, I can't agree with that overly broad & partially incorrect summation. It throws in "gratification" as the only psych factor & ignores the major cause. Abnormal psych "drive" is more often a cause. Sometimes, there is no "gratification" factor, or "psycho-sexual gratification" involved either.
She fits the descriptive of a "Mass Murderer" much better, due to the lack of the psychological factor(s) as stated in the story. She was lax in her professional standards due in part to her greed.

I thought the same thing when I was considering the title. I deliberately used the title as a double entendre and originally used a question mark after "serial killer" in the title (A "New" Kind of Serial Killer?) before I edited it out when I pulled up the working web def. taken from the Serial Killer wiki. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_killer

I agree it's broad and vague, and culturally, we've added attributes to the term that aren't really described in the literal meanings with serial simply meaning "series" (below). She isn't the kind of person that immediately comes to mind when I hear the term either for the same reasons as you. My mind goes more toward the more intricate FBI profiler defs., too. Personally, I'd like to see the definition updated/more defined.

The experts who study her methods and motivations may well classify her as a Mass Murderer b/c she certainly fits that category, too. I'll be interested to see what the psychology behind her apathetic pill-milling was (if there is any other than $$$), and where she falls in murder history compared to other doctors and nurses.

Here's the 2nd def. from the web dictionary:

2. (of a criminal) repeatedly committing the same offense and typically following a characteristic, predictable behavior pattern.
"a suspected serial rapist"

- And from Merriam Websters:

: arranged or happening in a series

of a crime : committed many times usually in the same way

of a criminal : committing a series of crimes
 
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really lack sympathy for addicts the reason why is that they much rather destroy themselves in the process of living a dream a drug addled dream than spend time in reality like the rest of us.

You have to consider that substances, all of them are an escape. When you give thought to the fact that addiction is self harm, a slow way to end your life. And that suicide is the ULTIMATE self harm its pretty easy to conclude that most hardcore addicts are chasing a death wish and don't want to join the living.
 
Well seems like you are one of millions sucking up our SSI with injuries that you definitely could have recover from and our awesome state health insurance depletion.

Pretty absurd and baseless accusation.

I led a very active lifestyle prior to my body failing me, if i could return to that i would in a heartbeat, give any amount of money, if i could have just one wish granted type of shit. Thanks for the ignorant and wild response though, wouldn't be dreamindemon without fielding at least one of these every day.


Thanks @JackBurton for sucking our tax dollars dry with lounging around.

In my defense, i get out of the wheelchair as much as i can. So sorry it's not enough for you.

I guess i can stop going to the doctor, doing therapy, and making use of pharmaceuticals, and just give up what semblance of an active/mobile life i do still cling on to. Your intelligent comment here has enlightened me so! Def sounds like a better way of things, and the massive amount of money it'd save the gov't! Shit, why doesn't everyone find a way to give up and make do without any and all aid and assistance!??? It's such a no brainer, simple thing the way you make it out!!!

I'll think of you when it's my turn to retire and there is nothing left because of bullshit lifetime injuries.

Yep, cuz my injuries were all faked. I like how you deduced that out of, well, absolutely fucking nothing. What a brilliant mind at work!!!!

BTW, if you're truly worried about that, you should try planning better to provide for your own retirement. Don't bitch at me or anyone else for that.

BTW I didn't say I can handle the pain just saying my decision to not be dependent on society to take care of me was a choice I made on my own.

Everybodys got a breaking point. When you can't physically walk or even get out of bed, that's kind of a deal breaker on the whole, "i'll handle my shit on my own" front. And money can dry up eventually for some of us.


We need to revamp the way people can abuse the system forever getting free foodstamps, health care, housing and monthly monetary stipend

Agreed.


Don't see how i, or any other genuinely handicapped individuals who worked as hard and as long as they could into their adult lives before shit got fucked up, fit into that though.

But drug dealers don't quite have the same code of ethics to adhere to as say a dr who is supposed to be treating a person, not just selling drugs.

Why is that relevant to whether one is a serial killer and the other is not? Both are committing the same crime, providing drugs that the drug user ends up fatally over dosing on.
 
Even with needing to recover it should not be a forever lounging on the couch type of thing buddy. I'll think of you when it's my turn to retire and there is nothing left because of bullshit lifetime injuries.

I'm on SSD, unlike SSI, it's not an entitlement program. I PAID into it. And unlike SSI, I had to fight for over 6 years in the courts to get it. I am one of those that did set things up for my retirement, but after over 6 years, 401K's, retirement funds, stocks & bonds, etc. have a bad habit of vanishing when you have ZERO income otherwise.
So don't bitch to me, or about my "bullshit lifetime injuries," when over my lifetime I've put in enough funds to not only cover your ass, but several others as well.
 
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