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Ah, can you post the link for us? Did they mention anything else besides propane?

I know they said they were going through his stuff checking for explosives, but I haven't found anything else yet that's been released on what the items were. I hope to hell it wasn't a full blown civil terrorist kit.
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...r-planned-parenthood-colorado-springs-n470431

I was going to post multiple links, but my internet isn't working right for some reason. It says at least one propane tank with wires attached in this link. The one I read mentioned more than one I thought, but also didn't say anything about wires. Note: They could be empty tanks for all we know. And who knows what other items. Crazy people can still plan things out. People tend to forget that.
 
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...r-planned-parenthood-colorado-springs-n470431

I was going to post multiple links, but my internet isn't working right for some reason. It says at least one propane tank with wires attached in this link. The one I read mentioned more than one I thought, but also didn't say anything about wires. Note: They could be empty tanks for all we know. And who knows what other items. Crazy people can still plan things out. People tend to forget that.

Excellent article! They did a great job of capturing the fear and emotion involved. My gawd, I can't imagine the chaos. And, the photo of the fallen officer makes it all the more sad. Another dad/husband not coming home. I'm the first one to break bad on a rogue officer, but as a good cop's ex, I'm also among the first ones to get teary-eyed when they fall in the line of duty.

If this PD wasn't the force it was and hadn't done what they did to help contain the situation (incl. ramming the building with a truck), who knows how this could've ended, esp. now that we know he had what looked like a propane tank with wires. Holy shit. Depending on what else he had, Colorado Springs could've ended up being a mass grave. :(
 
If this PD wasn't the force it was and hadn't done what they did to help contain the situation (incl. ramming the building with a truck), who knows how this could've ended, esp. now that we know he had what looked like a propane tank with wires. Holy shit. Depending on what else he had, Colorado Springs could've ended up being a mass grave. :(

I agree completely, except that Colorado Springs is our 2nd largest city, so it would take a nuke to make it a mass grave.

As of now the local reports here are saying 3 dead (the officer and 2 civilians), but they aren't releasing the civilians' identity until the autopsies are complete. There are an additional 9 injured.

I just read this article, it's an eye witness account. Terrifying stuff...

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/survivor-planned-parenthood-gunman-was-aiming-my-head-n470596

The authorities are reporting that the shooter did make a couple of comments regarding abortion, but they cautioned not to jump to a conclusion on motive because the guy rambles incoherently to such an extreme extent that those comments could actually be unrelated to his primary motive.

Ok, pull out the tissues folks, this is the officer and his family from their church website. So heartbreaking...

63cd2b_a79b182c9b944bc5bd2be9e0d249799e.jpg


Here is their family bio on the church website:

http://www.hopechapelcs.org/#!leaders/c14p2

:(:(:(:(:(:(:(
 
:( Thanks @amac . I so wish we had a sad or broken heart rating. That pic's a huge heart ouchie. I watched the memorial footage and the interview with Mr. Licano on our local Fox affiliate. They also reported what Ms. Craion described. Can you imagine sitting in that room in sheer terror for five hours?

They also included a piece saying he was a championship ice skater (?) when he was in high school. Oh, and I'm sorry for the dumb edit error. I knew C.S. was a large city, but I screwed up when I accidentally edited out the PP in my original sentence, "the PP in Colorado Springs could've been a quarry." I hope they find and publish his real motive soon.
 
And that all started, yet again, in St. Louis. The fetal body parts.

:(

I don't have words.

Excuse me for a moment....

I just. Can't.
 
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@gatekeeper can I get a synopsis of the article since I'm not a subscriber I can't read it. Thank you.

Gah! It's not coming back up for me now either! It showed the whole story when I clicked in from Google, but now it's asking me to subscribe for access beyond the first paragraph. :banghead: Sorry about that. Here's one from CNN that says about the same thing, but better. Hmmphf WSJ! :

Suspect spoke of 'baby parts' after Planned Parenthood shooting

(CNN) Suspected Colorado Springs Planned Parenthood shooter Robert Lewis Dear mentioned "baby parts" to investigators and in later interviews expressed anti-abortion and anti-government views, a law enforcement official briefed on the investigation told CNN.

Law enforcement officials caution it's too early to determine a motive in the case until all evidence is gathered and examined. That process is still ongoing. Though the state is taking the lead, the FBI is conducting its own investigation to determine whether federal charges would be filed.

The official told CNN that propane tanks were found in the area of Dear's car in the parking lot, and that authorities believe he was trying to shoot them to cause an explosion.

The siege ended Friday when the suspect dropped his gun and surrendered in a hallway once the SWAT team brought in a BearCat armored vehicle and Dear was cornered.

'Crime against women'

Attorney General Loretta Lynch has called the shooting, which killed three people and wounded nine more, a "crime against women;" Colorado Gov. John Hickenlooper has said it's "a tragedy that is beyond speech."

Among the victims was Garrett Swasey, a University of Colorado-Colorado Springs police officer who rushed to the clinic to offer his assistance."There was no way any of us could have kept him here," UCCS Police Chief Brian McPike said of Swasey during a Saturday evening vigil. "He was always willing to go...he had an enthusiasm that was hard to quell."

Officer Garrett Swasey was killed in Friday's Planned Parenthood shooting.
Colorado Springs Police Chief Peter Carey said that the identities of the other two victims likely will not be released until Monday, after autopsies have been performed.

In addition to the three killed, five officers and four civilians were hospitalized for wounds sustained in the shooting. Lt. Catherine Buckley said Friday night all were in good condition. By late Saturday afternoon, officials said five patients remained in two hospitals.

One of those is Colorado Springs SWAT team officer Dan Carter, according to his parents, who told CNN that their son was recovering from a gunshot wound.

Opposition to abortion eyed as motive

"I'm not going to say the perpetrator's name," a sullen Hickenlooper said Saturday, referring to Dear, the man authorities suspect was the shooter.

Dear, 57, is being held without bail in a Colorado Springs jail, according to the El Paso County Sheriff's Office.

While authorities said that a motive had not yet been established, Mayor John Suthers said "inferences (could be made) from where it took place," the Denver Post reported.

Vicki Cowart, president of Planned Parenthood of the Rocky Mountains, went beyond an inference, saying the shooter "was motivated by opposition to safe and legal abortion." Lynch, who called the "unconscionable attack" a "crime against women receiving health care services," pledged the full resources of her office for the investigation.

Planned Parenthood, which delivers reproductive health care and sex education to women and men across the United States, has come under attack before.

At least three Planned Parenthood buildings have been vandalized since September, when the organization was criticized in Washington and by some Republican presidential candidates after an anti-abortion group released videos alleging that it sold fetal organs and parts for profit. Planned Parenthood has disputed the veracity of the videos, contending that they are heavily edited and provide a distorted account.

Who is Robert Lewis Dear?

Based on a public records search, Dear appears to have lived in Colorado for only about a year. In October 2014, Dear purchased property in Hartsel, a rural community about 65 miles west of the clinic, for $6,000. Zigmond Post, a neighbor, said one of the few interactions he had was when Dear brought him some anti-Obama pamphlets. "That's about all I've run into him," he said.

Prior to Hartsel, Dear appears to have spent much of his life in the Carolinas.

WLOS, a CNN affiliate in Asheville, North Carolina, photographed a dilapidated-looking mountain cabin that Dear reportedly called home in rural Buncombe County. The sheriff's office there said they only had one recorded contact with Dear, a civil citation issued in 2014 for allowing his dogs to run wild.

A decade before that, Dear was arrested and charged with two counts of animal cruelty while living in South Carolina, but he was found not guilty in a 2003 bench trial. In 2002, Dear was charged with being a peeping tom; those counts were dismissed in South Carolina. In 1997, Dear's wife accused him of domestic assault, although no charges were pressed, according to records provided by the Colleton County, South Carolina Sheriff's Office.

Dear is scheduled to appear at 1:30 p.m. Monday before Chief Judge Gilbert Martinez, El Paso County court spokesman Rob McCallum said.

Scanners capture police plans

Conversations captured over the police scanner gave glimpses into the drama as well as the strategic debate about what to do.

Despite initial fears that the gunman might be running around outside, authorities later determined that he was inside the Planned Parenthood building -- once he got through the front door -- throughout the siege, Buckley said.

Joan Motolinia's sister was among those inside. She called her brother Friday afternoon, and "I heard the shooting," a tearful Motolinia said.

"She couldn't say much because she was afraid," he said.

Kentanya Craion, who had visited the clinic for an ultrasound, said she saw the gunman shooting as she left outside in the parking lot, so she turned around and ran back inside. "He had no remorse," Craion said. "This was just a game to him."

Obama: 'Enough is enough'


In a statement Saturday, President Barack Obama didn't mention the controversies surrounding Planned Parenthood, but he did offer praise for Swasey, condolences to the families of the victims and condemnation of the attack as another example of gun violence.

"The last thing Americans should have to do, over the holidays or any day, is comfort the families of people killed by gun violence -- people who woke up in the morning and bid their loved ones goodbye with no idea it would for the last time," Obama said. "And yet, two days after Thanksgiving, that's what we are forced to do again."

As he has time and again after mass shootings, the President called on policymakers to do something to prevent them.

"This is not normal. We can't let it become normal," he said. "If we truly care about this -- if we're going to offer up our thoughts and prayers again, for God knows how many times, with a truly clean conscience -- then we have to do something about the easy accessibility of weapons of war on our streets to people who have no business yielding them.

"Period. Enough is enough."

Slideshow pics here: http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/28/us/colorado-planned-parenthood-shooting/
 
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Women aren't just incubators, and PP does a hell of a lot more than abortion. My local doesn't even perform abortion, but gets picketed. Women seeking birth control, pap smear, pelvic and prenatal exams on a sliding scale are the majority of users.
 
Gah! It's not coming back up for me now either! It showed the whole story when I clicked in from Google, but now it's asking me to subscribe for access beyond the first paragraph. :banghead: Sorry about that.

If you're using your phone, try going incognito and clicking the WSJ article from Google again.
 
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@gatekeeper @Caligirl90 I have WSJ access. The articles are saying:

  • Dear has a history of erratic behaviour
  • A "Peeping Tom" throughout most of his life
  • Allegedly shot a neighbour's pet, animal cruelty charges
  • History of domestic abuse
  • Harassed tenants in a property he managed
  • Kept garbage as 'art' - called himself a "self-employed art dealer"
  • Lengthy commentary on anti-abortion beliefs
  • He appeared "very calm and deliberate"
This is a well-reasoned response to one aspect of what is happening on social media concerning this mass-shooting.

http://bearingarms.com/delusional-f...bafbp&utm_medium=fbpage&utm_campaign=baupdate

I would argue it isn't well-reasoned at all. In fact, it's a deeply monochromatic view, and the author fails to acknowledge the complexities of neutralizing any threat. Ethical scenarios require inductive reasoning. Deductive reasoning doesn't help. Sure, it's ethically wrong to murder. But it's morally acceptable to murder someone if you're preventing the murder of a dozen people. If a man is on the floor without weapons, it would not be acceptable to murder him. If a man has his finger on a detonator (supposing his explosives are correct), it would be acceptable to murder him. But the author cannot apply deductive reasoning to this scenario, because it is impossible to know if the man on the floor without weapons is non-threatening; and it is particularly impossible to know if the man on the floor without weapons is non-threatening when he demonstrably has known explosive devices. The author is applying confirmation bias - an inductive fallacy - into a deductive framework. This syllogism is fine:

1) If Dear is an active shooter, he is killing people.
2) If Dear is killing people, then he will be neutralized.
3) Therefore, if Dear is an active shooter, then he will be neutralized.

It is a reasonably deductive conclusion. But it's far too simplistic, and it fails to recognize this multifaceted scenario. Let's not pretend erasing ethnicity is acceptable.
 
Let's not pretend erasing ethnicity is acceptable.

Talk about a monochromatic viewpoint. The race baiters have a need, possibly a compulsion, to alter the perceptions of real-life situations to fit their own narrow narrative/agenda. Not every single thing on this planet is a race/ethnicity issue. So no, ethnicity in this case gained no traction, & had no standing in this.
If Dear hadn't given up openly & hadn't followed LE instructions to the absolute letter, the ME would still be picking lead & copper fragments out of his ventilated, cop-killer carcass. I can guarantee the majority of officers present would have loved to have had him so much as twitch wrong. At that point, race was a zero factor. THAT is what the quoted cop was getting at.
 
Talk about a monochromatic viewpoint. The race baiters have a need, possibly a compulsion, to alter the perceptions of real-life situations to fit their own narrow narrative/agenda. Not every single thing on this planet is a race/ethnicity issue. So no, ethnicity in this case gained no traction, & had no standing in this.
If Dear hadn't given up openly & hadn't followed LE instructions to the absolute letter, the ME would still be picking lead & copper fragments out of his ventilated, cop-killer carcass. I can guarantee the majority of officers present would have loved to have had him so much as twitch wrong. At that point, race was a zero factor. THAT is what the quoted cop was getting at.

There is nothing monochromatic about my viewpoint - I am acknowledging the complexities and nuances of the situation. Race/ethnicity is always an issue. Factuality has nothing to do with 'baiting', and if you cannot see the correlation between race and crime and notions of justice, we cannot continue this conversation.

If it's any consolation, and to completely disregard skin colour, I think the police did a fine job and I commend them for keeping their cool and minimizing fatalities. The standoff lasted several hours. This allowed authorities to accurately analyze the situation. If anything, time is the greatest ally of reason. Sure, I believe Dear would have been shot if he came out 'guns-blazing' and did not surrender. This is only logical. But do authorities shoot people when the (alleged) criminals are calm and collected after committing (perhaps allegedly) a violent act? Of course. Hence the whole 'Hands Up, Don't Shoot' shit-show.

If you would like to tackle notions of 'baiting', Dear is not being labeled a 'terrorist' because he is white. It's a fact. Whether you see this or not is irrelevant. Dear had a clear political agenda of pro-life and chose to illicit terror against the pro-choice movement via a violent act. The whole 'no specific motivation' story is absolute bullshit. There's an obvious motivation, and it's grossly inconvenient to have any transparency. We have to keep the whole Islamophobia ball rolling. The Muslims need to have the whole 'terrorist market' cornered. This will be spun into a mental health v gun law debate and nothing will become of it. And if history bears repeating. we'll see another shooting next week, just like clockwork, and the song will remain the same.
 
Thanks very much for the WSJ synopsis @brokenandtwisted (we lucked out @cubby!). With the bullet points it reads like a chart history. ;)

This will be spun into a mental health v gun law debate and nothing will become of it. And if history bears repeating. we'll see another shooting next week, just like clockwork, and the song will remain the same.

My ex and I were discussing this exact issue this morning and the very first thing out of his mouth was, "Another pro for the cons in the gun control lobby. I wonder how much they paid him to be a patsy?" Though it's highly doubtful (if not outright fantasy thinking) we'll ever know the truth, I couldn't argue with him. I simply said, "Spree killing in Massachusetts Day Care, please stand by."

I'm honestly not a paranoid conspiracy theorist looking for political boogeymen agendas behind every door, but the timing of all this pot-stirring violence and civil unrest from domestic to global over the last several years is entirely too suspect for me to believe it's all merely coincidental. Truly random Pro-Life warrior or not, paid/compensated patsy or not, mentally impaired or not, this incident, just like every one before it, has more layers than an onion, IMO, and I doubt we'll ever get to the heart of it.
 
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I'm honestly not a paranoid conspiracy theorist looking for political boogeymen agendas behind every door, but the timing of all this pot-stirring violence and civil unrest from domestic to global over the last several years is entirely too suspect for me to believe it's all merely coincidental. Truly random Pro-Life warrior or not, paid/compensated patsy or not, mentally impaired or not, this incident, just like every one before it, has more layers than an onion, IMO, and I doubt we'll ever get to the heart of it.

Ha! Here's a good read from latest edition of The Atlantic for you. It's a little relevant to your newfound onion philosophy! "If You're Not Paranoid, You're Crazy". It does all seem a tad too convenient.

If Dear came out shooting at cops, he would be dead. But to the point we would require fingerprints or DNA to identify his body due to "ballistic trauma"? No fucking way. But he's white, and the Parisian ISIS kids were not white. Let's not "race bait" though!
 
I'm honestly not a paranoid conspiracy theorist looking for political boogeymen agendas behind every door, but the timing of all this pot-stirring violence and civil unrest from domestic to global over the last several years is entirely too suspect for me to believe it's all merely coincidental.

Each and every time this administration gets it's tail in a crack, there seems to be one or more convenient distractions being initiated that pull the attention of the people away from the misdeeds & incompetency of the CIC and his policies.
 
Ha! Here's a good read from latest edition of The Atlantic for you. It's a little relevant to your newfound onion philosophy! "If You're Not Paranoid, You're Crazy". It does all seem a tad too convenient.

If Dear came out shooting at cops, he would be dead. But to the point we would require fingerprints or DNA to identify his body due to "ballistic trauma"? No fucking way. But he's white, and the Parisian ISIS kids were not white. Let's not "race bait" though!

This article is absolutely brilliant, and if that's not an onion, I don't know what is! In fact, it is so well written, inclusive, eye-opening and thought-provoking, the author's easy going, enjoyable style often makes you remind yourself you're reading a possible true horror story of the highest order. I wish I could buy a full page in the Top 25 newspapers (both online and in print) here in the U.S. and run it as a featured, editorial. I'm being lazy. Do you happen to know if he's syndicated? IMO, a *highly* recommended read for anyone who'd like an update on Tech, past, present and perhaps, our future.

His apology to those formerly perceived 'conspiracy-criers, kooks and crackpots' of yesteryear is truly significant, IMO. The following quote is definitely an expansive tie in to think about (for anyone who hasn't read it yet, you have to read the whole article to put it in context).

From the article re: The NSAs Utah Data Center (pic @ link)
The records that the NSA blandly rendered as mere “data” and invisibly, silently collected—the phone logs, e‑mails, browsing histories, and digital photo libraries generated by a population engaged in the treasonous business of daily life—required a tangible, physical depository. And this was it: a multibillion-dollar facility clearly designed to unscramble, analyze, and store imponderable masses of information whose ultimate uses were unknowable. Google’s data mines, presumably, exist merely to sell us products, but the government’s models of our inner selves might be deployed to sell us stranger items. Policies. Programs. Maybe even wars.

This one from Le Monde (the link in the second paragraph for those interested) brings to light some very hard questions we should be asking as well, smh. Circles within circles and "worlds within worlds..."
 
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Each and every time this administration gets it's tail in a crack, there seems to be one or more convenient distractions being initiated that pull the attention of the people away from the misdeeds & incompetency of the CIC and his policies.

It's an age old tactic to be sure, and it certainly does seem that way, but it also syncs up a bit too neatly with global events going on, too, IMO. My mind/recall is throwing Zzzz's right now, but thinking back, I have to wonder what was going on with his predecessors' Admins. before this one both on home soil and around the world.

I'm going to have to do some digging around to see if there may be similar, speculative correlations between all the civil/global activity going on in this Admin. and the others.
 
Speculation is right, to give this the mantle of supposed fact would be a little crazed. However, things do seem to be a little bit too neat, polished, and timely.
Actually, I really would like to see those very things set on a comparative timeline for at least the past 55 years. I say 55 years to give the specs on 10 different Presidents, 5 from the Democrats, 5 from the Republicans (including Ford), in the interest of some semblance of fair comparison.
 
This article is absolutely brilliant, and if that's not an onion, I don't know what is! In fact, it is so well written, inclusive, eye-opening and thought-provoking, the author's easy going, enjoyable style often makes you remind yourself you're reading a possible true horror story of the highest order. I wish I could buy a full page in the Top 25 newspapers (both online and in print) here in the U.S. and run it as a featured, editorial. I'm being lazy. Do you happen to know if he's syndicated? IMO, a *highly* recommended read for anyone who'd like an update on Tech, past, present and perhaps, our future.

I am not sure. It's Walter Kirn. Fantastic writer. Quite popular in literary circles. You can't go wrong with anything he's written. Lost in the Meritocracy (memoir) and Up in the Air (novel) are great reads. He also regularly pens a bunch of essays in different journals/reviews.

I think his approach regarding the banalities of everyday life speaks volumes (and relevant to this thread). We are a deeply interconnected lot, and it's changing our world at unprecedented speed. Could the entirety of my bantering with @Wolf_of_Mars regarding our liberal/conservative ideologies stem from ghosts in a machine? Are you a Democrat because your search engine has influenced you into becoming one? To what extent does the Internet reinforce and seemingly validate our views? Kirn calls this "paranoia" in jest. I think it is actually quite reasonable food for thought.
 
Our local FOX affiliate just announced the judge has ordered Dear's records sealed...Raise your hand if you saw that coming.

Interestingly, he has the same court-appointed atty. as James Holmes (Batman movie shooter) had. The judge stated that "making the search warrant findings public would compromise the case"... Color me shocked. :penguin:
 
Well, that is quite shocking. It was not foreseeable. I'm sure it has absolutely nothing to do with his race, potential religious beliefs, or his political affiliations. Because acknowledging any of them is a form of 'baiting', and it would be absurd to suggest anything else (other than Dear being batshit insane/Second Amendment) was involved.

Maybe if we don't acknowledge any of our abstract constructs, social issues will be non-issues? Let's ignore our problems (and bill payments!). Maybe they'll go away. I wish I could be so ignorant.

We need a 'sad' rating button. Or some annoying social justice ones, with 'racist' and others. But only because I'm immature and I think it'd be hilarious.
 
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